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AP: Vilsack Won't Seek Chairmanship of DNC (10 min. ago)

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:43 PM
Original message
AP: Vilsack Won't Seek Chairmanship of DNC (10 min. ago)
Vilsack Won't Seek Chairmanship of DNC

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=548&u=/ap/20041122/ap_on_el_ge/democrats_vilsack&printer=1

DES MOINES, Iowa - Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack said Monday that he will not seek the chairmanship of the Democratic Party.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good. Maybe he'll run against Grassley next time
or whoever Grassley's chosen successor may be. He is in his 70's after all. I think our Governor would be a fine Senator, especially teamed with Harkin.
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Edgewater_Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Hooray!
Although I have to say the more I read about Rosenthal (Rosenberg?), the more interesting he looks.

By the way, if the higher-ups don't want Dean to run for President, why DON'T they give him the chairmanship? Wouldn't that be the cleanest way to keep him off the ballots?

Just asking ...
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. That's something we can all support!
:thumbsup:
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. good news n/t
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Does this open the door to Dean?
I think he'd be awesome....
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Ctrl_Alt_Del Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. god I hope so
nm.
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is my hopes that Howard Dean will get it n/t
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. See the end of the article: Dean has contacted the DNC.
"Former presidential candidate Howard Dean (news - web sites) has called party regulars, expressing his interest in the DNC job."
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That would be a GOOD thing! n/t
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Would be a terrible mistake to put Dean in the seat.
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 04:22 PM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
THe Europeans are already saying it would be an error.

THe Clinton's want Ickes. Donna Brazile is not in the trop for consideration. The petitions to choose Dean is coming up enourmously short of the signatures they are have expected to get.

There is buzz that Vilsack is with drawing because the party is talking about asking Bill Clinton to take over.

Dean has an enourmous problem. In many places like Iowa, many of those who did not support him, actually started hating Dean, due to the annoying behavior (annoying is the press term for it, abusive is the way many Iowan put it).

Dean is a divisive figure. His supporters blindly support him, and many of those who were thinking about him as a possibility gre to really dislike him due to his campaign.

The grunt workers in the DNC and the DLC dispised him for his disloyalty to the party with his continual attacks on everyone else in it.

If Dean put in charge, he will more tan likely find himself completly isolated, and with little or no help from the actual peoplecwho do the party work

Dean has no support from the majority of DNC members, and there is an active campaign to block Dean from getting the position.

Even a million signature is nothing compared to the 55 million voter who voted this year.
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I respectfully disagree...
I still think Dean would do a great job as chairman.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Why...
He actually never ran a campaign, and when he got rid of Joe Trippi. his campaign died. He is an an extreme conservative, as his record proves, He has offended enormous numers of voters, as hedid in Iowa, attcking their caucus system.

There is one in a ledership position who supports him at all, and that is more important than popularity, as the move to select John Edwards based on popularity proved. If he is even as popular as thopugh as the petition drive to get people to sign up for him is not going as well as they anticipate that it should be. They have gotten no where near the gotes they thought they would have by now. Unfortuantely Dean only inspures a small percent of voters, and irritates a lot more.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. If he gets it do you promise to leave?
Pretty please?
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Wont have to worry about it
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 05:05 PM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
If Dean gets it we can anticipate losing the next few presidential cycles as well as the midterm elections.

If he doesnt get it will you leave?

The good thing about my posts is that I am getting a lot of PM's thanking me and reminding me that many people who were tinking about supportingDean were convinced to drop him because of the information I provided.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. No
I'll just be doing my part to make sure that we put Democrats who aren't afraid to stand for something in at the local level.
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
60. an egotistical post, not worth looking at. nt
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #42
71. AH HA HA HA
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 09:01 PM by Cheswick2.0
The "i'm getting a lot of PMs thanking me" line. Do these people also come from Pluto? Do they contact you by talking out of your AM radio?
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #42
90. And there are other PMs you are NOT getting because of politeness
Edited on Tue Nov-23-04 09:24 AM by TeacherCreature
..not to mention basic civility and adherence to the site rules.

But let me take this public opprtunity to inform you that your anti-Dean obsession is boring and annoying to many people here.

Some have even PM-ed me about it.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. dupe
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 04:50 PM by ibegurpard
eom
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. I'm in Iowa
He didn't offend me at all.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
70. so much misinformation
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Bill Clinton Would Be good, Too
Fire in the belly, silver tongue, sex appeal, and SMART!

Not to mention having some basic principles consonant with the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Molly Ivins has been writing a lot
About Clinton being selected.
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
93. I don't see Bill Clinton being interested....
he has said that he has interest in being secretary general of the United Nations....I just don't see him being interested in being DNC chairman....though he would be good.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. *yawn*
Don't you know any new songs? This one is getting soooooo threadbare.

:eyes:

Julie

P.S. Your name demostrates your obvious issues. Give it up dude.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Well
You can make comments but you cannot hide from Deans ultraconservative past, he is no more a Democrat than George Bush is.

The fact that he has connived his way into getting people to think he is is even more of a reason for his not leading the party. As in Vermont, if Dean is given the leadership position the first thin that can be expected is that milions of Democrats will register as independent, as happend in Vermont. Dean lost more Democrats to the party than any single figure in the Party's history. While he was Governor, 40 percent of registered Democrats in Vermont left the Democratic Party. AS Governor it seemed that Deans primary goal was to demolish the Democratic Party and assist Republicans. Find some evidence to the contrary.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You make the assertion, you provide proof
"Ultraconservative"! LOLOLOL!!!!!!!! Even the most rabid sock puppets didn't go that far in the primaries.

I'd like to see evidence of these numbers you cite re: the Dem party in Vermont. I find it interesting that he won his state in the primaries when a.) he's so hated by Dems there (you claim) and b.) he wasn't even in the race anymore.

Face it you hate the guy and can help but spew your bile. Get over your hard on for Dean.

Julie
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. II have posted dozens of links already
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 05:51 PM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
To Deans opposition to the Democrats as Governor.

YOu guys have merely been spoiting Deans campaign drivel.

Enough people bought the stuff that Gephard publisjed about Denas opposition to Democrats in vermont, his cuts to social program, that Dean lost in Iowa bigtime:

"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

It’s Business As Usual,

Starring HOWARD DEAN



(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)



* * * * * *



In Vermont, said John McClaughry, Dean was such a centrist that some in his own party considered him "a Republican in drag." McClaughry, a Republican who heads the Ethan Allen Institute, a public policy think tank in Kirby, Vt., said: "A lot of people in Vermont look at Howard Dean today and they don't see the Howard Dean who was governor. He has reshaped himself to appeal to a faction of the Democratic constituency." (Los Angeles Times, June 1, 2003)

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/DVNS_Howard-Dean.htm

* The View From Vermont Is of a Different Dean (posted 11/12)

Washington Post, August 17, 2003

The tone of the current race for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination was set 12 years ago last week when a little-known Republican governor of a state with fewer people than Baltimore dropped dead of a heart attack while cleaning the filter on his swimming pool. . . . Truth be told, the former governor never aspired to be a liberal maverick because, well, he wasn't one. The good doctor -- born, after all, into a solidly Republican family with a homestead in the Hamptons -- could never have been a flaming liberal and remained at the state's helm for very long. . . . As most close observers of Vermont politics note, Dean the Democrat continued to pursue much of the agenda established by Snelling the Republican. Dean worked at balancing a deficit-plagued budget, resisting urgings from the left to abandon Snelling's tightfisted ways. As he told Vermont Public Radio in an interview two years ago, "I think there was an expectation among some of those on the farther liberal ends of my own party that I was going to come in and now things were going to be different, and the facts were that we had a big serious financial crisis and somebody had to deal with it and that somebody happened to be me by chance." In other words, Dean was trying to be true to his pledge to govern as Snelling would have -- as a progressive Republican

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1216-2003Aug15¬Found=true

Howard Dean: the Progressive Anti-War Candidate?

Perspectives from Vermont

I know that a lot of you are going to vote for Dean -- he talks a good game; he can be charismatic and charming. But I'm warning you. This man will tell you what you want to hear, or at least tell you something that has some little kernel of something that you can interpret as support for the things that are important to you. But when the time comes to stand up and lead on the issue, to take on the money interests and backsliders in his own party, that stiff little spine will turn into a slinky.



If you vote for him, it's your job to stand behind him with a poker and keep him headed in the right direction. Don't give him any honeymoon period, either--keep the pressure on from the second you drop that ballot in the box. The minute you relax, he's going to turn right back into what he really is...a privileged, arrogant, middle of the road republican. Put your political energy into getting some truly progressive folks into the House and Senate, and into State legislatures around the country so that there will be more pressure from more directions. We need to get together our sophisticated progressive thinkers to develop policy ideas in every area, so that we're ready with real, well-thought out counter-proposals for the incremental changes a Dean administration might put forth. If you feel you must, support Dean, do--but then go do the work necessary to make real change.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Bister-Estrin-Jacobs_Dean.htm

Democrat laces up a liberal exterior
As Howard Dean lays claim to the left in 2004, many in Vermont recall a more conservative governor.
By ADAM C. SMITH, Times Political Editor
© St. Petersburg Times
published July 6, 2003



BURLINGTON, Vt. - Pausing from hawking his organic beets and strawberries, David Zuckerman grinned when asked about the new hero of liberals across the nation.

"Most Vermonters I know chuckle about Howard Dean as the most liberal presidential candidate," said Zuckerman, a pony-tailed farmer and Vermont state legislator.

He once likened a group of liberal Democrats to communists. He publicly said he hoped one fellow Democrat would lose shortly before her election.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/06/Worldandnation/Democrat_laces_up_a_l.shtml

Dean's No Wellstone

by Jim Farrell, The Nation, May 26, 2003

While Dean may share some measure of Wellstone's passion, his record and his agenda are very different. As governor of Vermont, Dean targeted for elimination the public-financing provision of the state's campaign finance law--a law similar to the one Wellstone pushed in the Senate. In February 2002, Dean said his big donors are given special access. While Wellstone fought for people on welfare, Dean said some welfare recipients "don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working" and scaled back Vermont's welfare program, reducing cash benefits and imposing strict time limits on single mothers receiving welfare assistance. Dean advocated sending nuclear waste from his state to the poor, mostly Hispanic town of Sierra Blanca, Texas. Wellstone called the proposal "blatant environmental injustice" and fought to delay the measure in the Senate. It ultimately passed but was later determined unsafe. Just last year, Dean proposed deep cuts in Medicaid, which were blocked in his own legislature. Now he calls Representative Dick Gephardt's healthcare proposal, which would roll back the Bush tax cuts in order to provide a tax credit for employers mandated to deliver health coverage to workers, "a pie-in-the-sky radical revamping of our healthcare system." Dean has said that a constitutional amendment to balance the budget "wouldn't be a bad thing" and that the way to balance the federal budget is "for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70 and cut defense, Medicare and veterans' pensions." In the name of fiscal conservatism, Dean's final-year Vermont budget also cut portions of the state's public education funding

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030526&s=farrell

Who's the Real Howard Dean?
As Vermont governor, the liberal firebrand was a fiscal conservative with close ties to business


Howard Dean has fought his way to the front of the Democratic pack jostling for the 2004 Presidential nomination partly because he has won the hearts of so many liberals with his antiwar rhetoric and shoot-from-the-lip style. But who is the real Howard Dean? Is he the left-of-center insurgent being portrayed in the press or the business-friendly fiscal conservative and pragmatic moderate who governed Vermont for 11 years?

Many who worked with Dean are astonished at his current image and comparisons to liberal icons such as George McGovern. "The Howard Dean you are seeing on the national scene is not the Dean that we saw around here for the last decade," says John McClaughry, president of the Ethan Allen Institute, a conservative Vermont think tank. "He's moved sharply left."

Conservative Vermont business leaders praise Dean's record and his unceasing efforts to balance the budget, even though Vermont is the only state where a balanced budget is not constitutionally required. Moreover, they argue that the two most liberal policies adopted during Dean's tenure -- the "civil unions" law and a radical revamping of public school financing -- were instigated by Vermont's ultraliberal Supreme Court rather than Dean. "He was not a left-wing wacko," says Bill Stenger, a Republican and president of Jay Peak Resort, who says he supported Dean because of his "fiscally responsible, socially conscious policies."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm


Dr. No and the Yes Men

New York Times Magazine, June 1, 2003

If Dean ever belonged to the ''Democratic wing of the Democratic Party'' before this year, he must have kept his membership secret. During his five two-year terms as governor, Dean was proud to be known as a pragmatic New Democrat, in the Clinton mold, boasting that neither the far right nor the far left had much use for him.... Then, last fall, Dean opposed the Congressional war resolution that Kerry, Joe Lieberman, John Edwards and Dick Gephardt all supported. And it didn't take long for Dean to see that he had stirred something powerful in the depths of the Democratic Party. Liberal resentment had been building since the mid-1990's, when liberals had to swallow Bill Clinton's strategy of ''triangulation'' on issues like welfare reform....In the space of a few weeks, Dean became the antiwar candidate, the new Gene McCarthy. Dean, an instinctively shrewd politician, recognized an opportunity when it presented itself. He began using the ''Democratic wing of the Democratic Party'' line and broadened his attacks on Bush and his fellow Democrats.... Dean is clearly aware of this predicament, and he doesn't want to be seen as a peace candidate. ''It's kind of a sad commentary that I'm the most progressive candidate running, out here talking about a balanced budget and a health care system run by the private sector,'' Dean told me at one point. During another conversation, he said: ''I was a triangulator before Clinton was a triangulator. In my soul, I'm a moderate. I know no one believes that.'' I asked Dean whether he is worried that his liberal supporters might be disillusioned if they heard him talk this way. He shook his head. ''I've met people in the peace movement, and I've said, 'Look, I appreciate your help, but you have to take a hard look at me, because I'm not a pacifist,''' he said. ''In fact, I'm far more hawkish than the president is on terrorism.''

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/DVNS_Howard-Dean.htm

What Liberal Messiah? Howard Dean, left-wing impostor.

Monday afternoon, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean announced that he was running for president to promote health care, child development, and fiscal responsibility. "But most importantly, I wanted my party to stand up for what we believe again!" shouted Dean. To his legions of supporters, he pleaded, "You have the power to take back the Democratic Party!" Those are good lines, and they got the applause he wanted. But they're for show. Dean isn't nearly the left-winger his fans or critics imagine.

For months, Dean has accused his Democratic rivals of caving to the right. He scolds them for supporting the Iraq war resolution, accepting $350 billion in additional deficit-era tax cuts, and voting for President Bush's underfunded education bill. Dean claims to stand for "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," unlike Bob Graham, who purports to represent "the electable wing of the Democratic Party." But how exactly do Dean and Graham differ on the war resolution, the tax cuts, and funding the education bill? Not at all.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2084735/


Mental breakdown: Embracing change, Vermont neglected its state hospital (posted 11/12)
Boston Globe, October 20, 2003
When federal inspectors emerged from Vermont's tiny state mental hospital this summer, they described conditions that can best be called archaic. Patients paced the halls, or sat in isolation, while staff members ignored them. One woman had not bathed in more than four months. A man had not had his psychiatric evaluation updated since he was admitted -- in 1980. When night came, patients on one ward were ordered to bedrooms that were locked from the outside, with no access to bathrooms. During the review, the situation got worse: Within a span of six weeks, two patients committed suicide in their rooms. One, a 19-year-old woman whose treatment plan specified that she be stripped of her shoelaces, hung herself with a shoelace, according to an advocate who had represented her in grievances against the hospital. The revelations, shocking anywhere, came as a particular surprise in Vermont, a state much admired for its progressive mental health policies. . . . In his run for president, former governor Howard Dean moved early to stake out the territory of mental health for himself, delivering a speech Sept. 12 that promised "real solutions to the mental health care crisis" and holding up the Vermont system as a model. But the state's neglected mental hospital shows the limits of the Vermont success story. . . .Peter Van Vranken, who was Dean's health policy adviser when he was governor, said he "really have an answer" to how the hospital was allowed to deteriorate

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/mental/articles/2003/10/20/mental_breakdown/

Past haunts Dean on Medicare issue (posted 11/12)
Boston.com, September 30, 2003
HAD DICK Gephardt been more politically correct last week, he would have rebuked Howard Dean for standing with Senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico on proposed Medicare cutbacks in the 1990s or with then-Representative John Kasich of Ohio. To those bosses of the newly Republican budget committee in Congress, he could have added the GOP revolutionaries running the House Ways and Means Committee -- Bill Archer of Texas and Bill Thomas of California. Newt Gingrich, however, was a lightning rod for disbelief -- a distraction, really. Dean expressed wounded shock and horror that anyone would link him to the former speaker, who in turn tried to link slashes in eligibility and other restrictions on Medicare beneficiaries with a whopping tax cut for high-income Americans. The truth, however, is that as a conservative Democratic governor, Dean really did do what Gephardt says he did, and his shifting attempts to wiggle off that hook have made his conduct an issue in a Democratic race that grows more serious by the week. . . . Dean will plead guilty to having supported a slowdown in Medicare's rate of spending growth (from 10 to 7 percent annually) -- an innocuous-sounding, almost accountant-like budget position. In fact, the proposal he supported would have restricted eligibility, called on some retired people to pay more, and used force more than incentives to require participation in managed care

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2003/09/30/past_haunts_dean_on_medicare_issue/


Crisis in Agriculture in Vermont: A Special Report about Governor Howard Dean's Agriculture Department From Vermonters for a Clean Environment, Inc.

Vermonters for a Clean Environment, March 20, 2002

Agriculture has been a mainstay of Vermont's economy and culture for centuries. The state of Vermont does and should take an active role in supporting agriculture. However, in recent years, support for agriculture has been twisted by our state government so that it no longer means what it once did -- support for family farms and sustainable way of life. Instead, support for agriculture has come to mean support for practices that generate the most dollars in the shortest time with the least concern about their impact on other Vermonters , present and future


http://www.vtce.org/deancrisisagvt.html

* For the Defense

Rutland Herald Editorial, August 16, 2001

Dean has made no secret of his belief that the justice system gives all the breaks to defendants. Consequently, during the 1990s, state’s attorneys, police, and corrections all received budget increases vastly exceeding increases enjoyed by the defender general’s office. That meant the state’s attorneys were able to round up ever increasing numbers of criminal defendants, but the public defenders were not given comparable resources to respond…

http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/31792

Dean's Law and Order Views: The representative of the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," is on some constitutional issues at odds with many in his party's base

Time Magazine (on-line edition), October 30, 2003

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean has rarely missed a chance -- in debates and smaller forums, as well as on his website -- to hammer the Bush administration's handling of civil liberties since the 2001 terrorist attacks. He's even taken other Democrats to task: "Too many in my party voted for the Patriot Act," he said last June in a not-so-veiled jab at some of his opponents in the presidential race. "They believed that it was more important to show bipartisan support for President Bush during a moment of crisis than to stand up for the basic values of our constitution." But on Sept. 12, 2001, Dean had quite a different reaction. He told the Vermont press corps he believed the terrorist hijackings would "require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street…I think that's a debate that we will have


http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,535358,00.html

On the campaign trail with the un-Bush

by Jake Tapper, Salon.com, February 19, 2003

He gets a deluge of phone calls from reporters asking him to clarify his position. Which is -- "as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice. "Dean is stirring up antiwar people," a senior advisor to one of his Democratic opponents says. "They are against all war, not just against war without U.N. support. When we do go to war, and Dean says he's with our troops and president in time of national crisis, the antiwar activists he's cultivated will turn on him quickly." .

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/02/20/dean/index_np.html

The Dean Deception: The lying S.O.B.

By Justin Raimondo, Anti-war.com, August 27, 2003

As Dean barnstorms the country and charms the left-wing of his party with his brand of pernicious guff, he is turning into a disaster for the anti-war movement, and an embarrassment to his supporters. If we're lucky, Dean may derail his own campaign with his careening instability long before he gets anywhere near the White House


http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j082703.html

Short-Fused Populist, Breathing Fire at Bush

Washington Post, July 6, 2003

Garrison Nelson, a professor of political science at the University of Vermont and a frequent Dean critic, says the Different Dean has been fascinating to watch. "Howard Dean pounding the podium taking back America is a new Howard," he says. "Now, whether the new Howard is the real Howard is a matter for speculation. Is he taking the left as a campaign strategy?" Dean says he doesn't mind being called a liberal and welcomes progressives to the campaign. ("I'd be delighted if the Greens supported me!") But he chuckles at the liberal label, considering that "I am probably the most conservative of the candidates when it comes to gun control." It's a states issue, he says, and his state, with its low crime rate, doesn't need it. "I think it's pathetic that I'm considered the left-wing liberal," Dean said. "It shows just how far to the right this country has lurched." Over and over on the campaign trail, he tells audiences that he is a fiscal conservative who believes balanced budgets serve the cause of social justice. "Here's why," he'll say. "When you balance the budget, you have money in hard times to pay for the things you need." Yet if he generally sounds more like a Paul Wellstone progressive than a Bill Clinton centrist on the stump, even borrowing the late Minnesota senator's line about representing "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A11710-2003Jul5?language=printer


The Appeal of Howard Dean


SEVERAL YEARS AGO an obscure Democratic governor from the politically inconsequential state of Vermont was the guest speaker at a Cato Institute lunch. His name was Howard Dean. He had been awarded one of the highest grades among all Democrats (and a better grade than at least half of the Republicans) in the annual Cato Fiscal Report Card on the Governors. We were curious about his views because we had heard that he harbored political ambitions beyond the governorship...

You folks at Cato," he told us, "should really like my views because I'm economically conservative and socially laissez-faire." Then he continued: "Believe me, I'm no big-government liberal. I believe in balanced budgets, markets, and deregulation. Look at my record in Vermont." He was scathing in his indictment of the "hyper-enthusiasm for taxes" among Democrats in Washington.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/073ylkiz.asp







This is just a short list going over Dean's activities as governor, his support for the war in Iraq until he sawc the opportunity to tke advantage of the anti-war movement, and lost of other indications of Deans own consevatism, his cuts to social programs, his support for cutting social security and medicare, and how he was vieewd as governor. This is only a TINY portion of what is available about Dean record.

No one can find anything that can indicate that Dean ever did anything that remottely resembles the type of candidate he was trying to represent himself as while running for office. Notice the article about the Cato Institute. Cato is oneof the most ultraconservative porganizations in the U.S.. They gave Dean one of their highest ratings as a conservative, and rated him higher than half of the Republican in the U.S. in conservatism. The Cato Institute was started by the Koch brothers, two ultraconservatives who found ways to give George W. Bush 25 million dollars by bundling funds. By the way the Koch Brothers are the sons of the founder of the John Birch Society. They decided that this organization and there father were not conservative enough so they founded the Cato Institute to support their ideas on conservatism.

So like Dean all you want, but he is no "real Democrat" his entire record is a denial of most of the main principals of the democratic party.

P.S., myscreen name has nothing to do with Dean but Ho Chi Mihn, who was called Uncle Ho. But given how much you actually know about Dean, I shouldnt expect you to know that.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Interesting
I have seen as many or more editorial type articles from actual Democrats who think he's the best thing since sliced bread. Democrats who are from Vermont even! But I guess if you really hate Dean, as you apparently do, that is of no matter.

Funny that he got elected to Governor of Vermont 5 times, after serving in the Vermont legislature. And then of course he won his state in the primaries. Those must have all been flukes.

I notice Vermont seems to be in the best shape of almost all the states. Quite a legacy for such a loser.

Well I did learn one thing from this otherwise worthless exchange. There are actually people on "my side" who hate a fellow Dem obsessively. Thanks for the insights into the darker corners of your mind. Scary place, you've my sympathies.

Julie
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. Still waiting for numbers Nicky
You threw out some big numbers about the Dem membership in Vermont and you post a bunch of opinion pieces when I remind you that the person making the assertions bears the burden of proof. (You may recall that you demanded I provide proof contrary to your claims, which of course is ass-backwards).

Pony up Nicky-boy, we're all waiting....

Julie
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. We just took over the House
in a landslide and extended our control of the Senate in VT. I think nicky's report of our demise must be greatly exaggerated. Must not be a Vermonter. ;>)
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. Wow! Truly a disaster!
For the Rethugs that is.

I guess ol' Nic won't be forthcoming with those numbers anytime soon.

Julie
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
86. The first Dean MeetUp I ever attended had a former Vermonter
Edited on Tue Nov-23-04 01:50 AM by calimary
in the group. He was perhaps THE most enthusiastic about his former governor of any of us. And he'd lived in Vermont WHILE Dean was governor - he'd only recently moved to L.A. He had nothing but good things to say about Dr. Dean, and throughout the evening, his overall contributions to the discussion showed him to be quite the dyed-in-the-wool liberal.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. Lets see.
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 10:40 PM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
Dean is faulted, and given as the reason for the creation of the Vermont Progressive Party:

THe 2002 race, the Demcrats no longer are pulling the 50 percent of the 200 race, which Dean nearly lost, due to the Vermont state requirements to get a minimum of 50 percent of the vote:


Meanwhile in Vermont the Governor's and Lt. Governor's races will be decided by the state legislature. The latest numbers show Jim Douglas (R) leading Doug Racine 45% to 42% for Governor. Tom Hogan trails with 10%. In the race for Lt. Governor, Brian Dubie (R) is leading Peter Shumlin 40% to 33% with Anthony Pollina third at a very respectable 25%. For those just checking in, here in Vermont you must win over 50% of the popular vote or else the winner is "elected" by the state legislature.

http://www.alphecca.com/archives/alarc110902.html

Lets look at each race where Dean ran for Governor:


1992: - first election as governor (with 74% of the vote)
1994: re-elected (with 69%)
1996: re-elected (with 71%)
1998: re-elected (with 56%)
2000: re-elected (with 50.4%, Republican 2nd place finisher received 37.9%, leftist Progressive Party 3rd place finisher received 9.5%)


http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Howard_Dean

Notice the drop off from 69 percent to 50 percent ( 49 percent would have thrown the election to the Vermont House of Representatives, the REPUBLICAN HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

Dean has lost 29 percent of the vote at this point...


And Dean's coziness with corporations and conservatives helped inspire formation of the Vermont Progressive Party, a coalition of labor, farm and social-justice activists that won almost 10 percent of the vote for activist Anthony Pollina's 2000 challenge to Dean.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030929&c=3&s=nichols

Which Governors conservatism is given as the reason for the starting of the Progressive Party...Howard Dean

Conventional wisdom says a stronger Progressive Party siphons votes from the liberal wing of the Democratic party.

"It spells real trouble for Democrats," Nelson said.

Mark Michaud, executive director of the Vermont State Democratic Party, said his faithful ultimately will remain loyal because they realize Democrats historically made strides in the very issues Progressives hold dear: environmental protection, campaign finance reform and other issues.

Racine also is considered more liberal than Dean, further reason for liberal Democrats to remain true, Michaud said. He noted a recent poll by Vermont Public Radio that showed Pollina receiving only 7 percent support in a 2002 race for governor with Racine and Douglas --lower than his tally last year

http://www.progressiveparty.org/news/view/?id=15

Now Deans leaving office is given as the reason that Democrats are given a better chance of wimmomg in 2002

I liked Dean better when he was a moderate
Posted December 24, 2003 11:31 AM


Howard Dean, as governor of Vermont, really was a moderate Dem. He governed from the center, was labeled a "Republican in disguise" by liberal critics, and irritated the state's left wing so much, many of them broke away and formed a third party -- Vermont's Progressive Party -- which now helps split the state's left and elect Republicans to statewide office.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000999.html

Why did liberals break aay and form a third party?

VT: Progressive Pollina to run as Democrat?
by Brendan Hadash


Progressive Anthony Pollina is considering running for Lieutenant Governor as a Democrat. The Democratic state chair was not enthused. Two good Democrats are already running - former state senators Jan Backus and Cheryl Rivers. Last election, a conservative Republican became Lieutenant Governor when Pollina, running as a Progressive, and the Democrat split the liberal vote. If Pollina does run, this might signal the beginning of the end for the Progressive party in Vermont which started when the far left wing of the Democratic party left because they found Governor Howard Dean too conservative.

http://www.polstate.com/archives/005248.html

Again, what was responsible for the beginning of the Vermont Progressive Party?



In 2000 Progressive PArty candidate takes ten percent of the vote, which , if you remove the Republican ortion of the vote, yields a net total shift of votes away from the Democratic Candidate of 20 Percent.

Lets move to the 2002 Election:

Governor's Race
To our disappointment, current Democratic Lieutenant Governor Doug Racine, a strong supporter of full equality for same-sex couples, was narrowly defeated by current Republican Treasurer Jim Douglas in the Governor's race. Douglas has equivocated in his position regarding the civil union law, expressing support at one point for the civil union "repeal and replace" measure passed by the House in 2000. It was a close race– 45% (Douglas) to 42% (Racine), with 10% of the voters opting for Independent Con Hogan.

Democratic Candidates now down to 42 percent, the first time in 15 years that they fall behind Republicans. There is not PRogressive candidate for Governor. But there is a Progressive Running for Lt Governor

Lt. Governor's Race
Republican Brian Dubie, who ran as a civil union opponent in 2000, and equivocated more in 2002, took the Lt. Governor's office with 41% of the vote. Democratic Senator Peter Shumlin placed second with 32% of the vote, and Progressive Anthony Pollina garnered 25% of the vote. We're heartened that 57% of Vermonters voted for a pro-civil union candidate, and regret that, notwithstanding that fact, we'll be served by an unsupportive Lieutenant Governor for the next two years.

http://www.vtcivilunionpac.org/analysis.htm#Governor

So by 2002 the party that was formed in response to Deans conservatism, is getting 25 percent of the vote, while Democratic candidates are down to 32 percent of the vote.More than 50 percent of the Democratic vote is lost in theLt Governors race from the 1992 Race. The drop of the Democractic portion of theGovernors race between 1992 where the Dem got 69 percent of the vote to 2002 where they got 42 percent of the vote is a loss of nearly 50 percent of the vote. Democratic candidates are lose both Governors seats and Lt Governors seats, which they held from 1992 until 2002. The Progressive Party has doubled the percentage it pulls when running candidates against Democrats

All you need to do to figure out where the votes have gone id to add the Progressive vote to the Domocratic vote and you get 59 percent of the total vorte for left leanning candidates.

All you need to do is look at the reasons for the formation of the Progresive Party, a party which was formed totally as a raction to Deans conservatism. Deans slide in percentage of the vote recieved every year, down 19 point between 1992 and 2000, and the the continued slide in the democratic party's share of the vote, whenever a Progressive candidate was run against a Democrat. The net loss to the progressive candidates is over 40 percent.


In fact Dean clashed so “often with Democrats over taxes and spending many liberal-left Democrats into the arms of the Progressive Party and of Representative Bernie Sanders, Congress’s lone socialist.” (One can assume, given the Democrats’ attacks on Ralph Nader following the 2000 election, that what Dean produced in Vermont is precisely what the Party seeks to avoid in 2004.) Economist Max Sawicky says Dean “often turned his acerbic words on the left wing of his own party.


http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/DVNS_Howard-Dean.htm

From the start, Dean navigated a triangular course between the two parties, clashing often with the Democrats over taxes and spending -- and helping to drive many liberal-left Democrats into the arms of the Progressive Party and of Representative Bernie Sanders, Congress's lone socialist. Inheriting a fiscal crisis from Snelling, Dean slashed the budget and dramatically reduced taxes. During the 1990s, Dean repeatedly unsheathed his veto pen, and he often allied with a growing contingent of conservative Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans to outmaneuver the Democratic leadership on issues such as taxes.

http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/13/dreyfuss-r.html

Again, WHO drove the liberals into the arms of the Progresive Party


Vermont Progressive Party was started as a reaction to DEAN. Between 1992 and 2002, this party ate away at the lead of the Democratic Party's candidates at every political level. By 2002, the Democrats went from the majority party in Vermont, to a minority party, Republicans taking the lead, both the Governor and Lt Governors seats, with the Progressive Party being the spoiler, leaching away Democratic Votes in growing numbers every year in whatever government position they choose to run for.

Without Howard Dean,there would be no Progressive Party in Vermont.






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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Look again you silly Ho
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #82
97. The Progressive Party was started long before Dean (1980).
"Vermont Progressive Party was started as a reaction to DEAN. Between 1992 and 2002, this party ate away at the lead of the Democratic Party's candidates at every political level. By 2002, the Democrats went from the majority party in Vermont, to a minority party, Republicans taking the lead, both the Governor and Lt Governors seats, with the Progressive Party being the spoiler, leaching away Democratic Votes in growing numbers every year in whatever government position they choose to run for.

Without Howard Dean,there would be no Progressive Party in Vermont."

Gee, I think Bernie Sanders would get a kick out of that, since he helped start it long before Dean was into politics, launching the Progressive Party as he became mayor of Burlington in 1980. Dean becaem governor in 1992.

As for Dean's vote percentages, it depends more on who the compettition was, some years stronger than others. In 2000, he had the back lash of the Civil Unions legislation and the "Take Back Vermont" campaign. Fortunately, most Vermonters, including the liberal Republicans chose to not be influenced by the anti-gay campaign. Dean made the right choice and deserves credit for this.

Get your facts straight nick.
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Poor Richard Lex Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. This is just the hatchet job
the media did on Dean. The same media that makes Bush look so good and never asks the tough questions of the conservatives, and are always willing to spout the repub talking points.

I Like Howie because I trust him. He has a clear message and he is a fighter.

BTW, that is quite an agenda you got going there.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #50
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
72. he can't give it up, it's his reason to live.....his very identity
:7
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. Ah, Nicholas
I see you're back, only with a new and improved name. Unfortuntely, you didn't get any new talking points with the new name. Flashback to December 2003 and the Politics and Campaign forum. :eyes:
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
94. Wrong job
I think that Howard Dean has much to offer and I hope he remains in the public spotlight pushing for his causes. However, the DNC job is not the right job for him, partially for the reasons expressed above.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
99. You know what? I don't give a shit what those loser idiots think. nt
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
96. Good. DNC Chair is a perfect place for Dr. Dean.
Though I was a Kerry man, I admired Dean for his fire and willingness to say what he felt. In the DNC, he will be able to channel his energy better.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dean -- the door is open.
Maybe they'll do that split thing with Dean as the public face and the 'smart guy' as Mr. Inside. I love this news. It gives me hope.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. "the smart guy' as Mr Inside ?
Who would that be ? :shrug:

IMO, Dean would be great, but he wields more power fronting DFA where he doesn't have to cow-tow to protocol and pandering.


:hippie:
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a new day Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. No lack of "smart" guys for the Democrats
Just few who know how to stage a winning strategy.

Let's get someone who thinks less about fancy buildings for impressing lobbyists and more about building a stable of attractive candidates.

Dean, Dean, Dean...
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'll rejoin the Democratic Party if Dean gets the chair
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. f**ckin A!!
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. What's that supposed to mean?
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. it means "yes" or "right on"
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Alrightee then
:toast:

Sorry for being touchy.
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. I'll be happy I stayed
Howard Dean, though no liberal on policy issues, is certainly a populist. I think that's what the party needs.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #53
95. Yes he is a populist and liberal where it really counts
He is fine on the environment. He stood up for Gay Unions in VT. He was against this unjust war. He is against NCLB. He lowered unemployment, he gave almost universal healthcare.

He's my kind of liberal/populist
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. well
:thumbsup: Here's hoping for Dean.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
77. Don't forget! Sign the petition...
One of a couple I've seen, this one with over 4,000 signers!

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/deanfordnc
Sign the Petition!
Howard Dean for DNC Chairman!

Yeeeaaaaahhhhh!
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. The only names I've heard are Vilsack and Dean. Are there others?
Not that this is a public election or anything, but I'd be interested to see who will replace McAuliffe who, in my opinion, was a really horrible chairman. I saw him on the Daily Show, and I was amazed how vapid and shallow he sounded.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Simon Rosenberg, 'the smart guy' I referred to above.
He ran the New Democratic Network, a highly successful 527 and is supposedly a skilled organizer and fund raiser. More: http://www.dailykos.com/
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. so the NDN vs DFA nt
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I've heard Donna Brazile's...
name tossed out also, which would be a colossal mistake!
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Donna Brazille supports Dean for Chair
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. F**ckin A!!!
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. the name that I've been reading about most is Ickes
Also mentioned for the DNC post are Govs. Tom Vilsack of Iowa and Mark Warner of Virginia, and former Gov. Roy Barnes of Georgia.

Harold Ickes, a New York lawyer who was a White House aide in the Clinton administration and has close ties to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., has a large following, especially in the Clinton wing of the party. Ickes is a passionate advocate and successful fund-raiser, but his Clinton ties might work against him among Democrats backing other candidates.

Other names being circulated: Inez Tenenbaum, South Carolina's education superintendent and unsuccessful Senate candidate; and Simon Rosenberg, founder and president of the centrist New Democrat Network.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/nation/10138223.htm
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DemOperative Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
67. John Kerry has expressed interest
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 07:46 PM by DemOperative
but that's just rumor I believe
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. The DLC would prefer Jerry Falwell over Dean....
I hope they'll stay out of it, and let a REAL Democrat become Chair!!

:bounce: Go! Dean!! Go!!!! :bounce:

Dean is the BEST possible person to head up the DNC!! That's why I'm afraid our leadership won't let him do it!

:kick::kick:
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. A real Democrat...
Thats a laugh...

Dean was describes by Vermont Democrats as the Republican wing of the Democratic Party.

Or as noted by Dean longest time political advisor. the person who has been advising him since he ran for Lt. Governor of Vermont:


"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/DVNS_Howard-Dean.htm

It would be terrible to place sonmeone like Dean, who opposed every major piece of Democratic l;egislation placed before him, vetoing Democratic legislation that passed 37 times (using the veto more times than all Vermont Governors put together) and never opposing a single piece of Republican sponsored legislation.

Dean never supported a single piece of Democratic legislation in his career as Governor, the only one he signed was theCivil Unions legislation and he kept away from making any statemetn about the legislation before the courts ruled that he had to pass it. He was forced to pass a progressive taxation law, when the law he supported, favoring the wealthy, was declared unconstitutional by the Vermont Supreme Court.

If Dean is a "real democrat" then George W. Bush is a raving socialist.


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Poor Richard Lex Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. pssst . . .
your agenda is showing!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DemOperative Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
64. Any fool can cherry pick agenda laden claptrap from bogus sources
Oh. I see one already has.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
73. Nic can we get you a vacation somewhere quiet?
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Denver Socialist Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #73
85. Ches.. I would love to see Uncle_Ho_Ho
go to a insane asylum.

That's where he belongs with his tired, long debunked articles.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #73
88. Ah, the irony, because some people seem to be recycling
talking points from the primaries. Sucks when they pick on your candidate huh? (School of the Americas ring a bell?)

FWIW, I have come to tremendously respect and like Howard Dean, and I hope that he becomes leader of DNC. I have written to support this.

Can't we all just get along?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
100. Have you been awake for the past three years? nt
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. BECAUSE HE DOESN"T HAVE THE VOTES!!!
this means that either Dean has the votes, or the dnc members are withdolding there votes from Vilsack.
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. 100 of the members were Dean pledged superdelegates last year N/T
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. good news
I think it will be Dean.
Remember the chair is elected by DNC members.
DFA/PDA are lobbying DNC members to support Dean.
For symbolism alone, Dean's election as DNC chair will be of great value to the party IMHO.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. I hope Dean gets it
he would be great!
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. Good news
As a former Clark supporter, I have long admired Governor Dean and am gratified for his having breathed life into the Democratic Party. I can't think of anyone better to lead it.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
31. GOOD! I wrote my local party chair
and told them that Dean was their only hope to rescue this party and we didn't want Vilsack and we don't want Hillary--so they can either make Dean head of the DNC or they can LET him ALONE to run for president in 2008.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
59. I wrote Vilsack
And asked him to not take the job.

I think I suggested Dean as the best choice.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Dean....
Dean!

Dean!

Dean!

Dean!

Dean!

Dean!

Dean!

Dean!
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Miami Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
45. Woo Hoo
Give it to Dean

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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Posted on Daily Kos, article about Rosenberg
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 05:10 PM by cal04
MyDD: The 'Mo' For Rosenberg/Reform at the DNC

Simon Rosenberg, who currently heads the New Democrat Network, is becoming the favorite to become the next chairman of the DNC. But the former Clintonite also has a strong following among "outside" Democrats--activists who came to the party via former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and other Internet voters who read the blogs. Rosenberg's straight talk about what the party needs to do has been remarkably consistent and his 527's effort to win Hispanic voters was more successful than expected. Also in his favor: He's a tireless fundraiser.

There's time on this (decisions not made until January), but it's interesting nonetheless to see Vilsack's momentum slow. 'From the roots' really doesn't mean 'status quo'. The hope is that the electors figure that out this time

http://www.dailykos.com/
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
80. Bush's percentage of Latino votes rose from 2000
So I don't know how effective Mr. Rosenberg was.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #80
91. But we do know
how effective Dean is
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. It is long past time...
For some political effectiveness. As opposed to just financial effectiveness.

I think Howard has proved himself on both points.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
49. I hope for either Howard Dean or Simon Rosenberg
They're both passionate, and we need passion in a DNC chair.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. I'd like to see Dean at DNC Chair. He re-energized the party and impresses
me everytime I see him on TV. He doesn't hesitate to speak his mind. This is the type of person we need, in my opinion. :kick:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. Exactly. We need a shit-kicker. Some one who will reach out.
Some one with some passion. Can you imagine Dean pushing the stem-cell issue. We blew it so bad on this issue it makes me puke. As many people, I've got a horse in this race. I would just love to see Dr. Dean dismember (nasty image) the repuke talking heads on this.

I think Dean can do a great deal to get the country ready for a really tough Democrat in 2008, somebody who will match Dean's passion and capture about 60% of the vote.

DEAN FOR CHAIRMAN
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
58. Wow - All That Spleen Venting for Nothing
However, if Howard Dean were to become DNC Chair, this takes him out of the race for President in 2008.

And before anyone says anything, I'd like to what he could do in this position. His strengths seem to be recruiting candidates and fundraising. Both are needed.

But this is a case of being careful what you wish for...
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DemOperative Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Nothing prevents a DNC chair from running for Pres
There's no rule against it, as long as they resign first. In the meantime, four years is a long ways off and think of the good that can be accomplished.
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Hi
Quoted from above:

"Vilsack has been mentioned as a potential presidential candidate in 2008. A possible factor in his decision to forgo the DNC race was the likelihood that the party chairmanship would preclude any run for the Democratic presidential nomination."

:hi:

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DemOperative Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. yes, but that's not correct.
They make the assumption the candidate would try to remain chair.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. True...but
if you think/thought that the media, etc were hard on Dean this time around, let him try to run the DNC, put all the operations in place, do the fundraising and then resign to run for President.

And it will actually be only 2 years since the race for the nomination starts the day after the election in 2006.

If Dean is serious about changing the Democratic Party from within the party, then the DNC Chair is actually a very good place for him.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. so we should let the media tell us what to do?
and who are candidates should be? I think we need to STOP doing that.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. You are Correct...Doesn't Mean That They Won't Try
and will get some traction.

I'd like to see what Howard Dean can do to shake up the party at the party level and get some Dems elected back to the state offices and Congress. 'Cause if he runs and wins, it's going to be very lonely in DC without some help.
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Raiden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
76. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Dean
The Democratic party needs to get back to its progressive/populist roots. I trust Howard Dean with my life, he sure as Hell wouldn't have sold us out the way Kerry/Edwards did...

With that said, if he does get the job he's got a huge task ahead of him; but I'll support him every step of the way, just as I did during the primaries.


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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. Yayyyy! Woo Hoo. He must read DU..
:evilgrin:
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
87. Dean YES
PLEASE!
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
89. Mr.
Dean please.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-23-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
98. Thank GOD. PLEASE, Dean...let's GO, BABY!! nt
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