PETA: Kosher Slaughterhouse Abusing Animals

[Moloch]

DES MOINES, Iowa — An animal rights group has captured videotape that it says shows cattle at a kosher slaughterhouse enduring an "absolutely outrageous" level of cruelty.

PETA claims the video, posted on its Web site Tuesday afternoon, shows repeated acts of animal cruelty at AgriProcessors Inc. in northeastern Iowa. The organization filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Agriculture on Monday that alleged improper slaughtering practices.

"They're ripping the tracheas and esophagi out of fully conscious animals, dumping them out of pens into pools of their own blood. The animals stand and bellow and attempt to escape for up to three and even four minutes in some cases," Bruce Friedrich, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said late Tuesday.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041201/ap_on_re_us/peta_accused_abuse_3

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. bastards!

[moez]

2. mmmmm... I'm hungry

anyone else up for a sausage?

[Bono71]

18. Had some this morning...along with a nice chicken sandwhich

for lunch.

[jdj]

86. am I to understand you have no compassion whatsoever for

animals before they are slaughtered?

That you don't care what agony they go through before death, regardless of whether their death was illegally cruel.

[Jack_DeLeon]

94. I dont...

I think the "kosher" method is cruel, but I dont care about the rights of food animals.

As long as the animal is safe for human consumption its all good.

[jdj]

97. wow, would you ever NOT want to know what is in the food you eat.

there's more than a little corelation between sick animals and sick people.

[Jack_DeLeon]

102. true I probably dont...

yet I'm not ignorant about how food is made or processed.

I know food is not clean or sterile, it has all kinds of living organisms in it, mixed with waste, and insects parts.

However food does not need to be clean or sterile to be edible.

Humans survied for a long period of time living off of raw and undercooked meat.

[jdj]

105. you forgot hormones, steroids and antibiotics.

60% of antibiotics in this country go into cattle.

a nice cheesy yeast infection for the missus.

mmmm.

[Jack_DeLeon]

110. I dont know where you put your food but...

my girlfriend typically eats with the lips in her face.

I dont really worry about hormones or steroids in animals.

However I think it would be a good idea if the food industry made it so that the hormones and steroids would give more of a positive benefit to those that ate them.

[jdj]

115. um, these things are systemic, my friend

does she scratch alot?

[a_random_joel]

245. Your attitude sucks.

Just thought you'd like to know.

[Eurobabe]

212. yeah well maybe you should start worrying about these

being overused in our food chain. Quinolones in chicken, god knows what else in beef -- it's a small friggin wonder everyone is on either Anti-Depressants or ADD medication. Might you consider these drugs in the food chain, day after day put our immune systems into overdrive?

[jdj]

88. This article is not about vegetarianism.

It is not mentioned in the article. It is about making sure slaughterhouses follow existing laws.

PETA knows that people are going to eat meat. It follows up on tips from people concerned about VIOLATIONS of EXISTING LAWS with regard to slaughter of these animals.

Why in the name of God would that offend anyone?? How does the less painless death of your lunch put you out in anyway..


You and your knee-jerk buddies must have terribly guilty consciences to respond with to this post with "protest to much" snivelings about your eating habits.

[harpboy_ak]

271. PETA is just plain silly

This is the organization that came to Alaska to try to convince fishermen to stop killing fish because "they're intelligent".

And they *definitely* think everyone should be a vegetariarian. Many of them think that all pets should be set free, and horses should never endure the indignity of carrying humans on their backs.

They are a bunch of loonies and the press should stop repeating their idiotic propaganda and just plain lies.

[Piperay]

89. Geesh

reading about abuse makes you hungery??? :wtf: :-(

[TheWraith]

187. Have you folks heard of this recent invention called sarcasm? NT

[Paleocon]

3. Who knew PETA was filled with anti-semites???

They're everywhere!

[Gyre]

71. LMAO!!!

:toast:

Gyre

[Paleocon]

181. Thank you, thank you....

I'll be here all week. Please remember to tip your waiters and waitresses....

[Ravenseye]

203. Don't Forget...

To try the veal.

[clutchcargo]

164. PETA

I EAT MEAT SO I RARELY AGREE WITH PETA BUT THEY ARE NOT ANTI-SEMITES

[Must_B_Free]

171. You should cook it a little more

rare meat can be dangerous, especially if it has feces on it.

[Paleocon]

182. Good one...

Very funny!

[Djinn]

249. dunno if you're joking or not

but they've had the same protests/media releases about Halal meat - guess they hate muslims too :eyes:

Cutting an animals throat and letting it bleed to death clearly isn't the kindest way of killing something.

Some places attempt to avoid this by renderin an animal unconscious first - Kosher and Halal laws require an animal to be bled before death but it doesn't require a conscious animal to writhe in pain

[China_cat]

4. Kosher slaughterhouse???

Cruel???? bwahahahahahahaha

Maybe PETA needs a lesson in kosher law.

(Or is this another attempt by PETA to claim something that isn't...like they did for a pig slaughterhouse which happened to take place in New Zealand, not Iowa...hmmm, strange coincidence there...and was uncovered by a reporter with no connections to PETA even though they claimed it was one of their operatives.)

[sangh0]

13. How familiar are you with how kosher laws are enforced?

I have a family member who produced kosher products.

Let's just say it was not what I expected

[China_cat]

30. Where I am

they are strictly enforced. In most places I have been they have been 'adhered to'.

But I've never seen anything like what PETA alleges. Except in the several things that PETA has claimed and turned out not to be what they say it is.

[sangh0]

36. Did you know that the kosher laws

prohibit the cruel slaughter of animals? You're first post implied that cruelty has nothing to do with the kosher laws by claiming that PETA needed to review the kosher laws.

[China_cat]

49. I thought I had implied exactly the opposite.

I think PETA needs to review kosher laws because they PROHIBIT such things and a kosher slaughterhouse or butcher would lose their kashrut certification if such were to come to the knowledge of the rabbi who is supposed to supervise the shochet.

A simple call to the temple would either put it right or put them out of business because those practices invalidate the meat as being 'kosher'.

[sangh0]

64. Ahhh! Now I see

but PETA hasn't said anything about that aspect of the kosher laws. And as a matter of personal experience, I can tell you that the rabbis are not very conscientious about enforcing the kosher laws, so long as they get paid.

A simple call to the temple would either put it right or put them out of business because those practices invalidate the meat as being 'kosher'.

The temple may very well be the place where the rabbi who's been OKing the cruelty comes from.

[jdj]

81. China Cat, you CAN see the video. It's at the link.

Go watch it, and stop talking out of your ass.

[China_cat]

103. I'm not saying there's not a video

Just that PETA has misrepresented (actually lied about) other supposed videos of cruelty and their origin and, as far as I'm concerned, has lost any credibility they might have ever had.

[jdj]

107. Where is your documentation?

please document this...I'm all ears. What videos have they lied about? What court cases have they lost?

You sound like you know alot about PETA. I'm not a member, so fill me in.

[SOS]

5. Revolting cruelty

"Dr. Temple Grandin, a veterinarian at Colorado State University who designs humane slaughter plants, viewed the tape last week without knowing the location. She called it "an atrocious abomination, nothing like I've seen in 30 kosher plants I've visited here and in England, France, Ireland and Canada."

Dr. Grandin said the throat-tearing violated federal anticruelty law. "Nothing in the Humane Slaughter Act says you can start dismembering an animal while it's still conscious," she said." - New York Times 12/1/04

Here's the video:
http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/

[madrchsod]

6. guess who the ultra orthodox jewish owners

give their money to? republicans. these guys are have a long history of trouble in this town and have been sued by the epa and others. kosher meat? ya right- i guess those who eat "kosher" meat better start butchering their own animals because alot of meat isn`t kosher...

[ArthurDent]

7. Yeah, like... Arlen Specter!

With enemies like that, who needs friends?

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=&txtState=%28all+states%29&txtZip=&txtEmploy=AgriProcessors+&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&Order=N

[SOS]

10. More....

Here are the results for the town in Iowa.

http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-POSTVILLE-IA.html

[xerox]

8. Thats not

Kosher!

[DrWeird]

9. OK. How does PETA slaughter cattle?

Any tips?

[BiggJawn]

11. They let them die of old age...

Then they buy 'em a 20 kilobuck funeral...

[DrWeird]

12. How do they get veal then?

Can't be very tasty.

[sangh0]

15. They don't

Surprisingly, they still survive

(BTW, did you know that a lot of the "veal" served by restaurants is actually pork? It's still tasty)

[BiggJawn]

21. You can't get Veal from PETA...

Those old cows can't be very tasty, either...

[SOS]

26. How do they get veal?

Simple. Take the calf pictured below, hang him upside down, fully conscious, and hack his throat out.

[DrWeird]

28. Mmm. Delicious.

Gotta love PETA.

[jdj]

75. do you wank off over the napalmed bodies in iraq, too?

[CitySky]

90. my 2 cents

Look, the calf picture was meant to raise people's hackles. As in, "this cute large-eyed creature is the one suffering!"

And a lot of us omnivores just had a counter-reaction to the picture -- "hey. a food item." so the shock-and-horror didn't work for us. honestly my first reaction was also to make a joke about it.

NOT in response to the info about ripping the animals' throats out when they are alive, but as a counter-reaction to the picture that was meant to raise our sympathies and instead made us think of dinner.

Since I had the same reaction, I will not assume that people who posted, "yum!" in response to the picture of the calf would respond with anything BUT horror and revulsion to the abuse of human beings. Really. Torture, murder = bad. We're clear on that. 'K?

-Sky

[jdj]

96. so are you saying it's okay to torture animals? the law disagrees with you

If you are trying to portray yourself as reasonable the first thing you should do is refrain from defending these posts.

As for the picture. Honey, that picture can't do nothing to you. Your reaction to it came from INSIDE YOUR HEAD. I guarantee you, no PETA people get down in veal pins and smear diarrhea and a blood over a lame calf's ass and then yell "say cheese!" If manly, hunter, meat-eating men are having such a knee-jerk defensive reaction to the illegal torture of animals then perhaps they need to examine their own life choices. This is what Shakespeare was referring to when he talked about "protesting too much".

[NCN007]

47. yum

[bobbyboucher]

59. Nice contribution,

you will be quite an asset here a DU I'm sure.

[Ignis]

69. Oh, what a MAN!

I find it odd that it's considered somehow 'butch' or 'manly' to display just how much pleasure one can derive from the painful and prolonged death of an animal via factory farming.

But then, I didn't really understand how freepers could take a sick 'macho' pleasure in the photos from the Abu Ghraib scandal, either.

:shrug:

[NCN007]

208. it was just a little bit of sarcasm

i love meat, but i do not support the manner in which the animals are treated before they actually die. It tastes better when you hunt, kill, and cook it yourself anyways.

[JudyM]

268. If you buy it, you support it. Like if we complacently accept vote fraud

without writing the GAO or Congress, we're supporting that, regardless of how much we bitch about it on DU. Our action is what matters.

[damntexdem]

17. They raid a producer and 'release' the cattle.

Such animals will then die from lack of care. Well, it's what happens when PETA raids and releases research animals.

[DrWeird]

22. Yup. Remember the mink farm?

They released several hundred mink simultaneously and they then proceeded to kill each other. At least the ones that weren't already dead because PETA members had stepped on them while fleeing the scene of the crime.

[China_cat]

31. Was that the one

where they released 10,000 mink into the desert outside of Las Vegas? Without clue 1 as to the natural habitat of mink.

[DrWeird]

32. If I remember correctly...

it was around 800 in Oregon. Authorities found about three surviving mink, which had to be put down.

Hadn't heard about the mink in the desert though. Pretty funny.

[China_cat]

35. The idea that you can take

an animal whose lineage goes back probably 100 generations without any of them ever learning the skills necessary to survive in the wild and 'free' it is ludicrous.

The only humane thing to do would be to never let them breed again and care for them until they succumb to old age. The only alternative is to allow them to die in really horrendous ways because they don't know how to find their own food or even to hide in the face of a threat.

[jdj]

83. PETA didn't do this, PETA doesn't do this. Okay? get a clue.

They are a 501c3 non-profit, they can't break the law.

[China_cat]

113. But they do.

http://www.cdfe.org/conference.htm
http://www.cdfe.org/CDFEPetaComplaint.pdf (emphasizing, this is a PDF file)

There are more. Including the fact that PETA has now given more than $70,000 to Coronado, the convicted arsonist...as well as hiring him as an 'educator'.

[jdj]

122. looks like a puke site to me

i'm shocked (not).

If PETA gave money for the defense of ALF and ELF "members", which the article doesn't seem to confirm, then more power to them.\

They didn't do the actions, and they don't do the actions. The right-wing is after PETA's non-profit status, just like the are after the NAACP's status. Same shit, different day. Next?

[mrbassman03]

226. But PETA does do enough sick shit anyway...

I don't them to shove photos in my face of suffering animals... They are no better than the RW nuts that drive around with photos of abortions in their car windows...

[dean_dem]

229. Or the DU-ers who drive around with pictures of mutilated Iraqi children?

Just asking.

[mrbassman03]

231. Sure, I don't approve of that either...

There are much better ways to get a message out than shock tactics.

[dean_dem]

232. Fair enough, I don't either.

[Djinn]

hmm nice site

you know they're predominantly funded by agri-business and mining companies right?

[jdj]

77. LINK please.

[jdj]

78. LINK please

[China_cat]

121. Here's one

http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF06s.htm

Here's a timeline of some of the more audacious things funded by PETA;
http://www.liberation-mag.org.uk/ecoterrorism2.htm

This was at one time a link to an article at the Washington Post but the article isn't there anymore;
8/30/03 Scores of Freed Mink Feed on Farm Animals The Animal Liberation Front broke into a mink farm and released 10,000 mink, apparently unaware or unconcerned that the minks would ravage local farm livestock.


Here is another one in Washington state;
http://www.rense.com/general40/sdsfmr.htm

[jdj]

129. OH, GOD, YOU'VE FULFILLED MY DREAM!!!!

You posted an article from the FUR COMMISSION!!!.

This is too good to be true!

And I thought no one would believe me about the viral marketing thing.

(by the way rense is not reliable)

this is too good not to post:

"DEC. 4, 1999 - Las Vegas, Nev. PETA activist Dawn Carr hit rodeo showgirl Brandy DeJongh in the face with a pie moments after DeJongh was awarded the Miss Rodeo America 2000 crown.."

and another Barbaric Act of Pie Throwing:
MAY 30, 2000 - Washington, D.C. PETA activist Arathi Jayaram was charged with assault after throwing a pie at U.S. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman at the National Nutrition Summit."

PETA funded this? OH my GOD.

Let me educate you. All the other actions on this link were performed by groups... "ELF" is not an actual elf, that is "Earth Liberation Front". And on all the ones where it says "ALF" that isn't that puppet from the tv show, that is "Animal Liberation Front." NOT PETA, get it?

[Politicub]

196. LMAO!

"ELF" is not an actual elf, that is "Earth Liberation Front".

HAHAHAHAHAHA. That struck me as one of the funiest things I've read tonight. Oh, and PETA rocks!

:yourock:

[mrbassman03]

225. Well, I disagree...

I don't need to know how my food is produced... I would much rather sit and eat my expensive steak and veal cutlets without knowing all the crap that went on behind the scenes... If I do not eat it, someone else will, and quite frankly I enjoy a good piece of meat.

[Djinn]

251. um aren't you supopsed to be proving PETA did this?

apart from some seriously dodgy sources this claims the ALF did it? or am I missing something.

If someone asked for proof that Bush didn't go AWOL and the response was a link to the Whitehouse press page would you think that was credible?

[RebelOne]

39. PETA does not raid and release research animals.

It is the Animal Liberation Front (ALF).

[jdj]

80. Thank you, but the Neanderthal Asshole Front with 6 and 1/2 posts

between them here probably don't care about that.

[China_cat]

125. Which is funded by PETA

[jdj]

131. it looks like you are referring to a contribution to one person's legal

defense ten years ago.

oopsie.

these groups are not funded because they are not organized. I've donated to PETA (over ten ago,too) so hopefully my money got put to good use. Good to know.

[daleo]

23. Old age, I think, is their preferred method

Slow, but effective.

[damntexdem]

14. Well, I cetainly wouldn't accept such treatment for ...

human beings -- not even PETA members.

But if that's how a kosher slaughterhouse deals with cattle -- great! Give me a steak.

[jdj]

104. please, give this man a stake

er, steak.

[The Stranger]

16. Did any of you view the videotape PETA has on their site?

Hmmm . . . didn't think so.

[damntexdem]

19. I don't care.

PETA is my enemy.

[The Stranger]

20. Then keep posting.

The more we find out about you, the better.

[Bono71]

27. Here is something that I think generally reflects those of us

who eat meat:

1) It is far to yummy, we will never stop
2) Though we don't want inhumane conditions for the animals we eat while they are alive, we most assuredly want them dead when we are biting into them
3) We generally do not think hunters are evil.

[The Stranger]

29. Oh, you will stop. Of that you can rest assured.

Probably not stopped by PETA (as if everyone who supports PETA were to have such an aim), but by the very thing you find to be so "yummy" in the first place, taking its toll on your arteries, heart, waistline . . .

[China_cat]

33. Why is it

that PETA campaign supporters like to leave the impression that people who eat meat eat NOTHING but meat? And that the meat they eat is of the lowest, worst quality possible?

It's this kind of dishonesty that puts these people in the position of being totally dismissed for anything they say and do.

Try some honesty for a change and you might find others listening.

[The Stranger]

50. Actually . . .

Why is it that PETA campaign supporters like to leave the impression that people who eat meat eat NOTHING but meat? And that the meat they eat is of the lowest, worst quality possible?

. . . the inference was yours.

[jdj]

85. we don't care about you.

We don't, we care about the animals you murder.

This is why PETA does stings, to catch people in violation of already existing laws and drag them into courts and publicly expose them so that they are forced to change.

We are not worried about you, you'll get your due in the after-life.

Personally, my only thought about those of your ilk is why are you not in Iraq hunting humans for sport?

[China_cat]

106. And people wonder why we compare PETA

to the rabid fundigelicals in this country.

[jdj]

109. "We"?

try again.

[mrbassman03]

227. ANIMALS ARE FOOD!!!

There is a huge difference between killing a person and killing a tasty steak with legs.

[Bono71]

238. MMMMMMMMMM Burger!

[WillParkinson]

273. Animals are food?

Says who? Really, I'm just curious here. WHO says animals are food?

And let's not forget that despite everything we try to deny people are nothing more than animals. Smarter, perhaps, but animals anyway.

Don't ever for a moment forget it.

And the behavior of some of the people in this post goes a long way toward proving that.

[Djinn]

252. honesty?

want to stop posting "evidence" from PR fronts for agri-business and fur traders?

want to stop claiming PETA members did things that they didn't?

[Bono71]

34. I forgot that if I become a level five vegan, I will live for ever...

by the way, my grandfather is 96, an MD (practiced until he was 83) and eats meat every meal. Yummy!

[Liberaltarian]

68. what diet allows you to live forever?

:eyes:

[MISSDem]

44. This is the bottom line, IMHO. People can justify anything in

order to do what they want to do. Does it not bother you that these creatures are tortured and die in terror and then you ingest that meat into your body. Do you not believe that somehow you are ingesting that energy. Indeed, some think that this is part of the reason that we do have so much violence today. And I agree with you that hunters are not "bad people". In fact I think that if I were going to eat meat I would want to go out an kill it myself, as the American Indians did. Have a little respect for these animals that provide your sustenance.

[NCN007]

48. its their own fault

for being so damn tasty and lacking the faculties to defend themselves. Darwinism continues.

[SOS]

67. Here's an idea

Come to the Central Park Zoo in NYC and jump the fence into the polar bear area.
That would be entertaining. We'd soon see who lacks the faculties to defend themselves.
"Darwinism continues."

[NCN007]

202. evolution

made me smart enough to not do that, or to at least bring a gun

[SOS]

205. Evolution

has apparently created the Crown of Creation, Master of the Universe and the Invulnerable Super-Mammal in the form of your superior intelligence.
Nothing in the natural world can harm or kill you. You have "dominion" over all creatures to use for your own profit and pleasure, particularly those ill-suited to fight back. Even viruses and bacteria are at your command.
Must be great.
Just avoid old boats in warm waters, OK?

PS: If you fell into the polar bear area, rather than jumped in with a machine gun, I'd put my money on the bear.

[NCN007]

217. when was the last time

you looked up the food chain? come surfing at stinson beach

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/31/calif.shark.attack/

with me and you may appriciate the fact that thanks to our status we dont have to worry about getting eaten on a regular basis. I agree that if i didnt have a pretty big gun i would be lunch pretty quickly. But would the bear feel bad about it? Would the shark feel guilty about tearing me apart? I doubt it, and I dont feel sorry for my meat.

[jdj]

91. so why torture them beforehand? How is their torture their fault???

Are you saying they are masochists as well? Somehow, that doesn't fit in with your mention of "Darwinism".

[Bono71]

52. All joking aside, though I don't like the idea of inhumane

conditions, I truly do not see anything wrong with killing and eating animals (if my cat were big enough, he would probably kill me when he is hungry). It's all part of life. Are tigers immoral because the stalk their own game? What about sharks?

[jdj]

99. we're animals/but we're better than animals/but we're animals/

but we're better than animals...

um, which is it?

[Bono71]

166. Its neither...its kill or be killed

[jdj]

168. oh, okay

that explains a lot. Not.

[Bono71]

200. Hey genius, when did I write that we are "better" than

animals. We are they same...we (all species) are all part of some other species food chain. If this bothers you, that is your own personal problem. Don't blame us.

[MISSDem]

210. So you are actually saying that these cows in the slaughterhouse

are going to kill you if you don't kill them first. Puleeze.

[Bono71]

213. No, I'm saying I (or someone I pay) will kill them. It is

quite possible that another species would kill me if it had the chance (say for instance, a shark). I do not think the shark is immoral if it kills a vegan surfer.

[MISSDem]

209. That's not quite fair. These animals are not actually out in the wild

where the one intending to kill them has to run them down to do so. They are captive and forced along a ramp via electric prods. Get real.

[Bono71]

211. That is dumb...

I pay the guy who has subjugated the animal. Same thing. My going to work everyday is the equivalent to running down the antelope.

If the animals would not be so dumb to be subjugated in the first place, they might live longer. :)

[MISSDem]

216. That has got to be the most lame argument I have ever heard.

How can this animal keep from being under the control of humans when it was born in captivity?

[Bono71]

218. I dunno...hunger strike?

[Djinn]

253. and this article isn't about being a veggo

it's about CRUEL TREATMENT - do you support it or not? While PETA advocates vegetarianism it's mainly because of the fact that's it's almost impossible to avoid supporting cruel farming/slaughter practices when buying meat these days.

Not all members of PETA are even veggos - that's NOT what they spend the majority of their time on.

If you disagree with animal cruelty you may well find a fair bit of common ground with PETA...an open mind is a wonderful thing

[MISSDem]

43. Why?

[bobbyboucher]

60. You're a damn genius.

We need to get you working on rockets right away.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[daleo]

24. Since mad cow, I have eaten very little beef

Although, I guess that is a more difficult proposition if your religion has a prohibition against pork.

[goforit]

25. Defy............and trust no one!!!!

[Catchawave]

37. "Stop Slaughterhouse Abuse" (HFA)

More info at this website:


HFA < S t o p S l a u g h t e r h o u s e A b u s e >

http://www.hfa.org/hot_topic/wash_post.html#top

Bon Apetite !

[__Inanna__]

38. People who don't care about animals or the inhumane treatment of

are every bit as bad as someone who voted for *.

[RebelOne]

40. You have that right.

it just goes to show that those people do not have any compassion.

[dean_dem]

41. Defense from a meat-eater....

Okay, first of all, some of you need to get your facts straight. PETA is no prize even in the Animal rights community, but they have never been directly linked to releasing minks, releasing research animals, etc. Most of those have been ALF actions. And even then, all a person has to do to make it an "ALF" action is spray paint the group's name on the lab wall, or send out a release to the media. That's like saying just because some whacko firebombed a Bush-Cheney campaign office and spray-painted "Democratic Underground" on it, that makes it a Democratic Underground action. We all know that's not the case.
And once again, PETA is no prize as far as Animal rights organizations go, but they have done a lot of good as far as investigating cruelty at slaughterhouses. A few years ago, they investigated a slaughterhouse in North Carolina, where a complaint was later filed with the USDA and several slaughterhouse workers were brought up on charges. Why? Well, maybe it was because they caught a couple of workers on tape raping a sow with a pipe and another one who killed a sow by smashing its skull with a brick. Now, all you people can make all the jokes about how good pork is that you want, but I assure you that raping a pig or smashing its head in with a brick does NOT make it taste any better. PETA has its share of crazies, but don't just discount everything they do simply because of a few high profile incidents.
Really, I would have expected a little more thoughtfulness from the people on DU. Really, no one cares that you eat meat, but are comments like "Mmmmm...tasty" really frickin' necessary???? That's the kind of response I would expect on Free Republic.

[SOS]

65. Puzzling, isn't it?

Our best Democratic senators, people like Robert Byrd and Patrick Leahy, fight for increased enforcement of the 1958 and 1978 Humane Slaughters Acts.
Meanwhile the Republicans work ceaselessly to gut these laws and "deregulate" the corporations engaged in inhumane slaughter. The HSAs are no longer enforced and millions of animals are essentially skinned alive. Makes the line move faster, thereby creating increased profits for the Bush campaign contributors. The meatpacking industry has reverted, for animals and workers, to the conditions exposed by Sinclair in "The Jungle" way back in 1906.
Yet when this abuse by right-wing corporate interests is pointed out, we can always expect about half of the posts here to support the Republicans who are in violation of federal law.

This company, in particular, is a gem.

Big contributions, 100% Republican.
http://www.city-data.com/elec/elec-POSTVILLE-IA.html

Stiffing Suppliers:
http://www.usda.gov/gipsa/newsroom/release/2002/2602.htm

Polluting the Yellow River:
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=14055&intcategoryid=4

Connections to arson, bribery and insurance fraud:
http://www.newsday.com/ny-mblosn3849239jun14,0,2144991.story

But the company has lots of friends here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1290479/posts

[Catchawave]

152. Very well stated deandem....thank you...

...the insensitivity to inhumane treatment of animals is duly noted, and disturbs me as well.

Your story about the abuse at that hog farm is indeed a PETA effort that paved the way to upgrade "intentional abuse of animals" to a felony in about 38 (?) states now.

[warrens]

204. Good answer

PETA has its problems, but as a rule, it is law-abiding and has good intentions. I believe it was PETA that got video of workers in a chicken plant kicking the birds to death and smashing them against the wall.

I have not seen this video personally, but if PETA has found a violation of law, it should be corrected.

I eat meat, regularly. I also eat tofu, vegetables, fruit, and just about everything consumable. And I want all of it grown as ethically and healthily as possible. As far as I can tell, we have BSE because greedy farmers were turning their herbivores into carnivorous cannibals.

Most cattle farmers are highly ethical and produce a great product. But torturing an animal to death is a. just plain vicious and b. likely to affect the taste of the meat.

There were some incredibly ignorant statements made higher up. Flooding animals with antibiotics and hormones is not healthy, and it can lead to a lack of resistance to disease in humans if allowed to go too far. Saying, I don't care is plain STUPID.

[Djinn]

254. post of the day

From another leather wearing, meat eater

[MISSDem]

42. This sounds like the normal heinous methods used by most

all slaughterhouses, not just the kosher ones. Unfortunately, the skinning often begins while the animals are still alive because the stun gun missed them and you know the line cannot be held up to catch up with the merciful killing, donchaknow. And pigs are regularly marched off the ramp into boiling water while still alive because, once again the stun gun missed them. Enjoy that burger or barbecue. Your stomach is stronger than mine.

[VegasWolf]

45. PETA is a JOKE. Google any of the numerous expose's on

PETA's hypocrisies. Its pretzeldent Ingrid Newkirk will
be glad to help you with your estate planning contributions to PETA.

[dean_dem]

46. Yeah, PETA is a joke, but....

they have also done a lot of good work that would not have been done otherwise. Just discounting everything they do may be a whole lot easier than actually thinking about it, but its still wrong.

I actually worked at PETA for a few months, got tired of the crazies, and left. I could tell you plenty of bad stuff that has gone on in there. But that doesn't discount the fact that people ARE abusing animals in slaughterhouses, and PETA has many times stepped up to take them on.

EDIT: Edited out all the pretentiousness, not trying to be one of those people bragging about being on the "inside." My point is that it never ceases to amaze me how people who are normally perfectly rational about other issues seem to take a Fox News-esque perspective towards the animal rights movement, and just make comments like "Mmmm, meat" or "PETA is the enemy." Yeah, fuck France too.

[VegasWolf]

51. You almost had it until your edit, then your pretensions

got the better of you. My perspective is not Faux news
but rather intelligent reading about the subject matter.
There are good causes, but PETA is not a good solution.
I think your "inside knowledge" has biased your opinion.

[dean_dem]

53. So elaborate....

What have you found that is hypocritical about PETA? And how does it undermine the pockets of good work that they have done (including in this story)?

[VegasWolf]

54. If you're really curious, just type in google.com and follow

the instructions. I don't have all day the list PETA's
hypocrisies. Thanks to the internet, you can educate yourself.

edit: I typed in "peta hypocrisy" and got 15,800 hits.

[dean_dem]

55. I don't need to, I know of plenty "hypocrisies" about PETA....

but I want to know why you think that automatically discredits their animal abuse investigations such as this one?

EDIT: Here's an excerpt one of those hits I came across:
"Now I ask you, am I the only person in the world that sees the hypocrisy in this and a hidden agenda by the enviro and animal rights Wackos? Seems to me they are only worried about those things that fit into their agenda to stop humans from doing anything with the environment and the animals, and those things that get them big press in the liberal media."
- enviro whackos. Liberal media. Got it.
And most of the hits for "PETA hypocrisy" I got referenced the Center For Consumer Freedom, just another right-wing mouthpiece. I'm sure they'd love Democratic Undergroud.

[VegasWolf]

57. Then why ask me for more! How many do you need? n/t

[dean_dem]

61. Ummm, I just refuted those "hypocrisies" you suggested I look up...

Those were not good examples, seriously. You're going to have to do better than that.
And you didn't answer my question: how does that discredit the good work they do?

[VegasWolf]

76. No, you simply criticized your own your own inadequate

example. All that I did was provide was provide you
a pointer so that you could educate yourself. This
picking on a spelling error is extremely childish discourse
not fit for adult conservation. How old are you? Do
you even have a graduate degree?

[dean_dem]

222. Yeah, and in spite of your condescending reply

(or maybe you're just overcompensating) I indulged you and looked up exactly what you suggested I do. I then showed you what I came up with? Should I write it out on tablet paper and crayon for you?

I'm assuming you have a graduate degree, which is why you brought it up. Well la-dee-da. Good for you. It shows even the most educated still succumb to twisting facts to match their own narrow-minded agenda. Case in point.

[Djinn]

255. how many were posted

by front groups for agri-business like Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise

[NoKillShelterGuy]

98. I find it beyond hypocritical....

that they "rescue" ferals and then kill them. Why not just shoot them for sport? In case you didn't know this, they "rescue" and then slaughter THOUSANDS of animals a year.

[The Stranger]

201. Actually, the people I know rescue ferals, sterilize them,

and then release them, assuming they are so feral they cannot be adopted.

Do you have a link supporting your assertion that PETA slaughters thousands of animals per year?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

206. LINKS please? (nt)

[NoKillShelterGuy]

95. Like their "Mommy is a killer" comic book?

the one they targeted at 4 year olds?

They do far more harm than good.

[bobbyboucher]

62. I think the joke's on you.

You just don't get it do you?

[VegasWolf]

84. What that PETA is a joke? Again do a Google search in an

non biased ( and presumably more sosphisticated manner than the
reader above ) fashion and see for yourself.

[bobbyboucher]

101. You want me to do what?

Google up every freeper fucknut comment on the net? No thanks. Why don't you document their hypocrisy and present it to all of us idiots. It's everywhere and obvious right?

[jdj]

114. I actually did this one night.

I was looking for info on a friend who is a relatively well-known PETA activist (but not a celebrity).

And I was stunned to find out something that I have not mentioned on DU until now for fear of breaking the rules by calling people out, but, I found the anti-PETA talking points. They come from sites like the Furriers Assoc, and the Cattlemen's Assoc, etc., and places like that. I felt pretty stupid to be so dense as to not "get it" in this way, but these sites had commentary that is identical to what supposed DU posters post about and against PETA. Well, duh. I mean, it was like word for word. So I guess we are beset by viral marketing. Notice how quickly they jumped in here and tried to hijack and kill this thread. ( Yo furrier, and cattle people, thanks for the kicks). I mean, it's like ding,ding,ding,.

These aren't anti-animal rights talking points, they are ANTI-PETA talking points. Forget that there are hundreds of animal rights orgs. in this country, if not thousands, for some reason these industries are targeting PETA because PETA is the biggest and most powerful. I wish normally astute DUers would get their heads out of their asses and realize they are being played by these industries.

[bobbyboucher]

120. You are right on. The reich wing has figured out google,

not to mention bought it. Googling something as leading as "PETA hypocricy" will undoubtedly get you a couple zillion freeptard comments on the subject.

Google is compromised, but so are many other things. This is the age of information warfare, and we are losing, but it ain't over yet.

[jdj]

133. sometimes I get mad, because this stuff works.

DUers are normally pretty sharp, they can go on and on about agri-business and mad cow, yet when it comes to cluelessly spewing talking points from the fur commission and cattlemen's assoc., they just keep on spewing.

[bobbyboucher]

153. Not everyone is genuine, keep that in mind.

There's more than a few mouth-breathers spewing their putrid gack.

[VegasWolf]

134. "freeper fucknut comment on the net?", your ability to express yourself

reaches new levels of articulation.

[jdj]

136. if the fucknut fits, wear it

at least it's vegetarian.

[VegasWolf]

140. that's clever! n/t

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

224. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catchawave]

155. From industry funded websites....

...which are paid megabucks to smear animal advocates.

[The Stranger]

207. PETA is a joke because of Google? Then Google "Democrat"

and see all of the Right Wing "exposes" on that term and what a joke and what hypocrits Democrats and the Democratic Party are.

[genieroze]

56. I'm conflicted

I don't believe in cruelty to animals, but I like a good steak. I always thought they knocked the animals out first.

[dean_dem]

58. Me too, no need to be conflicted.

Its okay to believe that humans can eat animals without wanting them being brutalized.
Most slaughterhouses are fairly humane, as long as you don't have a problem with the actual killing, and PETA does tend to distort this fact. However, the ones that are being cruel to the animals need to be held accountable. If PETA's the only one that will hold them accountable, then more power to them.

[CitySky]

82. if you're conflicted and have a little extra cash, here's one option

You can buy beef from ranches that grass-feed the cattle then slaughter them themselves. The meat is healhier than grain-fed beef, and it seems the cattle live more, well, cattle-like lives than cattle raised in feedlots and slaughtered en masse.

Try doing a google seach for grass-fed cattle.

One year I bought all of my beef for home consumption (ground beef, a few roasts, a few steaks) from one of those places and I was pretty happy with it. Haven't done it this year though. Maybe I should.

[jdj]

148. you've hit on the reason behind the anti-PETA campaign

it's right-wing baloney viral marketing, factory farm people who ran small farmers into the ground, and will keep on running small farmers into the ground every chance they can.

They are against PETA and small farmers and ranchers and anyone else who may cut into their profit motive.

I wonder how businesses like Coleman turn a profit, but these businesses absolutely have orgs. like PETA to thank for exposing the truth about the cattle industry. Kudos to PETA, there are some orgs. and people who don't people in ANY reform in the treatment of farm animals because they don't believe in meat eating, so it would go against their values to support reform.

[Catchawave]

160. Yes indeed jdj !

Farm Aid: How Agribusiness has Hijacked Regulatory Policy at the U.S. Department of Agriculture
http://www.farmaid.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5627&news_iv_ctrl=1061
<snip>

In a new report titled "USDA Inc: How Agribusiness has Hijacked Regulatory Policy at the U.S. Department of Agriculture", Farm Aid and key food and farm allies expose the back-door connections and relationships that have allowed corporations to take control of America¹s food and farm agenda.

"As long as the leadership within the USDA is controlled by giant agribusiness, our food and farm policies will always serve the interests of the food giants at the expense of family farmers, consumers and the environment," stated Mark Smith of Farm Aid.

[CitySky]

235. have you heard of the book "Dominion?"

From what I understand, it's about the US meat industry from a "Christian" perspective -- unapologetically anthro-centric, as in: God put animals here for us to use, but responsibly, with some concept of stewardship, and agribusiness/feedlots is the wrong way to go about it.

This book has been on my "to-read" list for some years; maybe I need to get around to it soon. I think it might help re-motivate my more responsible consumer/dietary preferences... but in trying to curtail spending I am not piling any more books next to my bed until I figure out when I can get to my local public library!!!

and meanwhile: you're probably right that without people like PETA we'd have even LESS idea about what goes on behind the scenes in the industry, so I guess we have a reason to be grateful for their existence, even those of us with no real moral qualms about eating animals per se. hmm.

[Djinn]

256. I knew an organic meat wholesaler once

who was a member for pretty much this reason - his suppliers (and himself) were being pushed out business by humongo-corps to whom profit wins out over decent treatment of animals, food safety, worker safety/rights etc etc

ANd he was as fond of steak as anyone

[Catchawave]

172. Absolutely CitySky....

...and it's much healthier! Here's an article I posted elsewhere:

The New York Times > Opinion > Op-Ed Contributor: Food Without Fear
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/opinion/23barber.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. The main point is, though, that if the slaughterhouse is doing that

they are violating kashrut and should lose their certification.

Both kosher and halal meat is supposed to come from animals slaughtered humanely.

[Djinn]

258. how do you bleed an animal to death hamanely?

in Australia animals are unconscious when cut but this isn't practiced in many places

[mslux]

66. Been called Ultra Orthodox before

so let me provide a little information on kosher slaughter. I would recommend that you use the internet to look up the actual slaughter procedure.

Kosher slaughtering is supervised by several different organizations. A trademarked symbol is applied to the carcass or any packaged food product to indicate the supervising organization. The symbol is called a hecksher. You can see examples on everything from aluminum foil and dish soap to milk and meat products. The standards of organizations very, hence religious Jews are selective on which heckshers they consider acceptable.

A report that animals are mistreated and the meat is not kosher should indicate the plant and the supervising organization. Without this information, claims by PETA cannot be investigated.

[Cheswick2.0]

70. I don't think this is true...PETA tends to be a little nuts

Read this http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=796

[mslux]

72. Thanks for the link

It does provide a good overview of kosher slaughtering (and from a reform rabbi no less).

I sincerely doubt that meat from animals being slaughtered in a manner described by PETA is being passed off as kosher, at least not by any reputable kashrus agency.

[AlienGirl]

87. It might be being passed off as kosher

But it still wouldn't *be* kosher.

It could be a corrupt kashrus agency, or it could be that the slaughterhouse was hiding things.

Tucker

[jdj]

116. Not only that, but this type of slaughter is illegal period.

Kosher or not.

[jdj]

79. look, they have a TAPE. they do stings all the time

they get people inside the places and they film it and they take it to court.

This is what PETA does, this is their SOP.

[Logansquare]

73. I'm not a vegetarian, but am sickened by some of the comments

in this thread. Since when did cruelty become an appetizer?

[sakabatou]

74. Okay... so my family won't buy any products from the company

easy enough, I think.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

92. PETA lost all credibility with me....

when I found out that they also slaughter animals....and what's so bad about it is that they supposedly "rescue" them before they kill them.

Ingrid Newkirk is the embodiment of hypocritical evil in my book.

[flvegan]

111. Yeah, baby. Give us the link on that one. Oh, wait...you don't have one.

Your reply ought to be really kick-ass.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

118. Do you DENY that PETA euthanizes....

around 2/3 of the animals it "rescues"? Are you SERIOUSLY saying that PETA runs no-kill shelters?

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

128. Oh, geez...here we go

First, PETA's involvement in "sheltering animals" is limited. I'd like you to bring forth your obviously overwhelming info about PETA's euth ratio of the animals it (PETA) rescues.

Second, rage against open-intake all you want "nokillshelterguy" but until you (yes, you, since you've tossed the gauntlet) stop the breeding and buying, somebody, somewhere will push that needle. 5 million animals a year aren't going to go live in the woods. Do I advocate that? Fuck, no, I RUN a rescue of my own. I have 16 dogs in my house right now, ALL of which would be dead if they went to a shelter. However, I know reality and work towards a day where it doesn't happen.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

137. Here's my experience...

A group I worked with down in Norfolk had a "pet" feral cat colony that we'd adopted. We had named them, trapped them, spayed them, given them their shots, and then released them. They had an ample food source, and were doing fine. One day, they all disappeared. Some PETA folks had found out about the colony, went in, trapped them, and killed them. ALL of them. We're almost POSITIVE that they knew about our efforts, since all the locals knew of our involvement. So why couldn't they have left our colony alone? They weren't breeding, they were healthy, and they weren't bothering anybody.

PETA ADMITS that they euthanize around 2/3 of the animals they take in.

[jdj]

139. take in where, what?

give me links.

And please document the feral cat colony murder.
I'm sure it made the papers.

Where was this? What makes you think it was PETA? Humane traps must be left out for a day or so to catch all animals, were they not being fed daily? If not why not? Was anyone from PETA seen doing this? Did they publicly admit to doing it??

Just curious.

If I had to guess I would say it was the local health dept. that had this done, and that they were probably taken by animal control to a local shelter and euthanized, based on complaints from people who either live or do business in that area.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

143. It didn't make the paper....

and we found out it was PETA from talking to the locals who saw them out there trapping them. It was in Norfolk.

[jdj]

144. all hearsay. No direct evidence.

I can't see PETA bothering with feral cats.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

146. ask 'em about it.

they'll tell you.

BTW, What is a newspaper article? Direct evidence or hearsay? What is eyewitness testimony (which is what my post is)? Direct evidence or hearsay? Ask a lawyer. The answer might surprise you.

[jdj]

151. well, it usually means a reporter was there.

If they can't get documentation, they won't print it because it could result in libel lawsuits. This is probably why it didn't get printed, because there was no evidence PETA had anything to do with it.

Um, you said yourself you were "told" by "locals" that it was PETA. That is hearsay. I'm not sure where the eyewitness testimony comes in.

You folks SERIOUSLY need to pursue this. I have mixed feelings about feral cat colonies. I don't know what the answer is there. I don't believe all the cats disappeared suddenly, that is not possible, even in a rescue in an enclosed place it takes at least a couple of days. PETA takes people to task publicly for cruelty to animals. If you feel this is wrong, then get together with Alley Cat Allies and whatever other orgs there are and take PETA on with regards to this issue.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

157. Why bother? They're dead, and PETA will do....

what PETA wants to do, regardless of the outcome. Just look at some of their heinously counter-productive campaigns that did nothing but make us all look like nutcases, but raised PETA's visibility. We don't have legal standing to get an injunction to stop their practices. BTW, newspaper articles are NOT written ONLY when a reporter is present. In fact, the vast majority of stories written don't involve a reporter being there when it happened.

The story of our colony didn't get printed because we didn't go to the press, and because PETA has been known to be "rude" to reporters that "cross" the organization.

[jdj]

159. oh, I just don't believe that .

PETA has no pull with the media whatsoever.

Please go to the press next time. Get Alley Cat Allies, HSUS, SPCA, et al. on your side and fight them if this is a legitmate story.

The last line of your post is flat ridiculous. You almost had me going.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

162. no pull with the media?

then why does ALF use them as their spokesorganization?

[jdj]

165. ALF doesn't use them for anything.

ALF is not organized, it's own members don't know each other.

they have a link on another animal rights org's site where you can read about ALF actions, but PETA is not affiliated with them.

I'd post the ALF link but I don't know it by heart, it's something like www.ALF/direct-action.com or something.

Here's PETA rescuing a feral cat colony, by the way:



"Update: Feral Cats in Danger in Philadelphia

In a previous action alert, we told you of the city of Philadelphia’s plan to implode Veterans Stadium—an antiquated sports complex—sometime in the next year. Reports indicated that numerous feral cats, who were allowed to breed unchecked for many years, were living in and underneath Veterans Stadium.

At the time that we posted the action alert, we had been trying unsuccessfully for three months to obtain from officials in Philadelphia information concerning the fate of the cats. Thanks to your calls and letters, those officials recently contacted our office and informed us of their plan to work with a local cat rescue group in humanely trapping the cats, as well as performing spay/neuter procedures on the animals, who would then be released at a sanctuary in Pennsylvania. It has been reported that only 18 to 24 feral cats currently remain at the stadium and that there are rescues scheduled well before the December 2003 implosion of the building.

Thank you for getting involved!"

this is from Peta.com

[NoKillShelterGuy]

175. Where does that say that PETA "rescued" a single cat?

"those officials recently contacted our office and informed us of their plan to work with a local cat rescue group in humanely trapping the cats, as well as performing spay/neuter procedures on the animals, who would then be released at a sanctuary in Pennsylvania."

PETA wrote letters. They didn't "rescue" a single cat there.

As for PETA's ties to ALF, didn't they give Coronado's dad a $25,000 "loan" that was never repaid?

[dean_dem]

239. I thought ALF ate cats?

"Here kitty, kitty...."



Sorry, just trying to be funny. Hah-hah.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

183. here ya go...

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=38

"Because of the huge number of feral cats and the severe shortage of good homes, the difficulty of socialization, and the dangers lurking where most feral cats live, it may be necessary and the most compassionate choice to euthanize feral cats. You can ask your veterinarian to do this or, if your local shelter uses an injection of sodium pentobarbital, take the cats there. Please do not allow the prospect of euthanasia to deter you from trapping cats. If you leave them where they are, they will almost certainly die a painful death. A painless injection is far kinder than any fate that feral cats will meet if left to survive on their own."

[Catchawave]

170. Oh really....

I live in Norfolk, it was animal control who rounded up those animals with several animal welfare agencies, including Peta's, "help" when the shipyard was going to POISON them. Humane killing was a better option, don't you think? Just not enough homes to take them in which is very sad for MANY communities.

Gads, I feel like I chatting with the Swift Boat vets tonight....OY!!!

[flvegan]

141. And you know what,

If you're right, then I agree with you that it was wrong. Was it PETA or PETA employees acting on their own, or volunteers or members or ??? I know a couple folks that work there, and I intend to ask them about it.

Again, as for their euth ratio, I'm doubtful of this.

For the record, I applaud your TNR efforts.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

145. Ask them about their euthanization rate....

they'll tell you. Of course, they'll tell you that the animals were all either in torment (which is probably true of most of the housepets they put down) or feral. It's the "or feral" part I have problems with. I have several ferals living with me. We've had them for years. They don't play with the people, but do play with the other cats we have, and they have a good life. If PETA got ahold of them, they'd kill them, no questions asked.

While you're asking PETA questions, try this. Ask them what their annual budget was. And then ask them how much of their budget they spent trying to treat and place the animals they kill. Their answer may surprise you.

[jdj]

156. wow. I had no idea that PETA runs animal shelters.

If I am wrong about this, then I will underscore my ignorance.

I know about the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA), and Friends of Animals, those are the big ones, but PETA?

Humane euthanasia is not a bad way to go at all.

And 2/3, wow, that is actually quite a bit lower than most local animals shelters who probably average between 3/4 for the rare good ones and 9/10ths for the rest, which are the vast majority.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

161. My euthanization rate runs 0%

That's because I'm a "no kill" kind of guy. In the past year, I took in around 50 animals total, both unwanted housepets and ferals. NOT ONE was put down, I found homes for all of them, even the ferals. And it's NEVER taken me longer than 2 months to place an animal once it was healthy again.

[jdj]

167. Meanwhile your local animal shelter kills 10-20,000 a year.

Great, selfless wonderful work on your part.

But the problem needs to be spayed and neutered.

I'm not taking away from your contributions, but you won't find many animal rights people who confuse ALF with PETA and then say PETA is their spokesperson. It doesn't add up.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

178. I don't "confuse" ALF with PETA...

any more than I "confuse" the PIRA with Sinn Fein.

[China_cat]

127. From the Virginia Pilot

A Norfolk Newspaper.


Some people who had bought into PETA's campaign for kindness to animals were surprised last summer by the revelation that PETA kills animals. The controversy shed light on a major rift within the animal rights movement between those, like PETA, that support euthanasia and those that don't.

According to statistics kept by state regulators, PETA euthanized 1,325 of the 2,103 animals it took in during 1999.

``For an organization that feels there's a place for every fish in the sea, I could not believe that they would kill healthy cats,'' says Dr. Gail Furman, a psychologist at the Department of Veterans' Affairs Medical Center in Hampton.

Furman is part of a loosely organized community of local animal lovers who take care of stray cats. She estimates that over the years she has picked up as many as 100 strays and had them spayed or neutered.

PETA has angered stray-cat caretakers by trapping strays, hauling them to PETA headquarters and euthanizing them.

[flvegan]

130. Yawn. Now, let's see how many of them

Were sick/dying to begin with. Could it be that the euth was a humane alternative?

Yeah, that wouldn't be a convenient part of the article, would it.

[jdj]

135. where is your link?

I didn't even know that PETA ran animal shelters...

By the way, I am all for humane euthanasia.

Which is what this thread was supposed to be about...

"Humane" slaughter.

The only reason the cattle don't get the gift of dying in such a peaceful fashion is that you cowardly ass meat cruelty defenders won't eat meat with euth. solution in it.

[Catchawave]

154. This article was debunked a long time ago n/t

Based on vicious rumors.

[jdj]

158. then I guess it 's a cut and paste

hence no active link

[NoKillShelterGuy]

163. then you should have no problem...

providing a link to the "debunking", right?

[Catchawave]

174. Why....isn't the burden of proof on the offense?

I need the source of your article, so I can follow the money <wink>. Unfortunately, all Democrats should understand this by now:D

[NoKillShelterGuy]

180. PETA ENCOURAGES killing feral cats. Don't believe me? See...

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=38

"Because of the huge number of feral cats and the severe shortage of good homes, the difficulty of socialization, and the dangers lurking where most feral cats live, it may be necessary and the most compassionate choice to euthanize feral cats. You can ask your veterinarian to do this or, if your local shelter uses an injection of sodium pentobarbital, take the cats there. Please do not allow the prospect of euthanasia to deter you from trapping cats. If you leave them where they are, they will almost certainly die a painful death. A painless injection is far kinder than any fate that feral cats will meet if left to survive on their own."


FUCK PETA.

[Catchawave]

188. I don't think cats are all that well off "outdoors" either.

It's a cruel, cruel world out there. Sorry you don't see it that way.

[Catchawave]

189. Audubon: Cats Indoors!

http://www.audubon.org/bird/cat/

[NoKillShelterGuy]

190. So...because cats follow their instincts and eat pretty birds....

we should kill them?

BTW, those pretty birds eat, too....so should we kill them also for eating bugs and worms? Leave it to PETA to push for survival of only VEGAN animals...

[Moloch]

191. Self Deleted

NT

[JMac]

259. Yeah right

I googled the paragraphs you posted and the story must be debunked because the only site with the story is, guess who?
http://www.furcommission.com/resource/perspect999ag.htm

Furcommission does credit the Va Pilot, but it odd that Va Pilot doesn't score a hit when googling.

[dean_dem]

223. You're right, and that was one of the main reasons I got sick of PETA....

PETA employees were trapping feral cats along the Norfolk Waterfront and euthanizing them. The reasoning was that if they can't be placed in the care of humans, then they won't have a good life. That's BS, they were living just fine as strays. A lot of the local rescue organizations were attempting to stop them from doing this, and would try to get the cats before PETA did. I actually saw a PETA employee scuffling with a rescue worker over this. It was extremely f*cked up, and extremely hypocritical on PETA's part. So I got sick of it and left.

But that doesn't discredit the fact that they still have done a lot of good work as far as abuse investigations.

[Jack_DeLeon]

93. Duh...

didnt everyone know this.

The "Kosher" way apparently is to slit the animals throat and let them bleed to death.

I think it is cruel, however I also dont really care too much for the rights of food animals.

If it were me killing the animals I wouldnt do it, but then again I'm also not jewish.

[flvegan]

112. It's okay, because you "don't really care" Guess that makes it okay then.

Glad that's cleared up.

[AlienGirl]

119. Properly-done kosher slaughter is supposed to be *less* cruel

In both kosher and non-kosher slaughter, the cow bleeds to death. In kosher slaughter, the knife has to be ultra-sharp and the cow must be killed with one stroke of the knife. In non-kosher slaughterhouses, cattle can be sliced more than once for a killing blow and are usually hoisted by the hind legs before being slit. Also, IIRC, in kosher slaughter the cow isn't supposed to be able to see her own blood or the blood of any other animal.

Tucker

[jdj]

142. A friend of a friend of mine died this way.

Got cut, didn't know it was a fatal blow til it was too late. Bled to death.

Not a bad way to go, really.

[Moloch]

186. YOU JUST DON'T CARE!!

but you should....

[roguevalley]

117. godalmighty. i hate this whole thing. no more kosher. what is the

matter with people in this business? god will smash them flat, I PRAY!!!

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moloch]

126. Wow....

I didn't say it was ok for animals to be treated this way; I just posted it because I thought it was newsworthy and because I *DIDN'T* think animals should be treated like this. You really should calm down because I never said any of those things.

[flvegan]

132. I know that you didn't. I didn't mean to send that AT you.

It was an en masse response to the thread. I'm thankful that you brought the story here.

I honestly didn't mean to imply that you, specifically, were advocating this. My most sincere apologies, as I can see how that would come off (as a repost to your specific post).

[jdj]

138. I've done this more times than I care to recall

I get all worked up, and hit reply and then,
oopsie.

[Moloch]

149. It's ok.. I was just shocked for a second there..

NT

[Forkboy]

147. Post-O-The Day

:thumbsup:

[MrSlayer]

169. I don't eat kosher beef, does this make me less cruel?

:7

[Catchawave]

176. "Meet your Meat"

http://www.meetyourmeat.com/

[flying_blind]

177. http://themeatrix.com/ - every time you eat meat you condone this

http://themeatrix.com/

[Moloch]

179. Thank you!

after watching that, well I just don't know. I don't think I can stop eating meat but I would like to buy it from a family farm.

[flying_blind]

185. “Dead Zone” in the Gulf: Addressing Agriculture’s Contribution

The Northern Gulf of Mexico’s hypoxic (oxygen-deficient) waters represent one of the Western Hemisphere’s largest “dead zones”—areas where lack of oxygen kills fish, crabs, and other marine life. The size of the zone varies but at its peak, it stretches along the inner continental shelf from the mouth of the Mississippi River westward to the upper Texas coast, covering about 7,000 square miles, an area as large as New Jersey. Long-term consequences to biodiversity, species abundance, and biomass in the Gulf are not yet known, but experience with other coastal dead zones has shown significant ecological deterioration and depleted fisheries.

Scientists believe that Gulf hypoxia is caused by nitrogen loads from the Mississippi River. Nitrogen fuels the rapid growth of large populations of algae and plankton. When they die and sink to the bottom, their decay robs the water of oxygen.

Because two-thirds of the nitrogen in the Mississippi River comes from use of fertilizer and manure on agricultural lands, reducing agricultural nitrogen is a major component of the strategy for controlling the hypoxic zone. Two basic approaches can be taken: (1) induce changes in the application and management of nitrogen fertilizer on farm fields, or (2) restore wetlands along rivers and streams to intercept and filter out the nitrogen before it reaches surface waters. Because the geographic scale of the problem is so large, any policy to reduce nitrogen from agriculture will affect commodity prices, and consequently farmers and consumers both inside and outside the basin.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/amberwaves/november03/Findings/deadzone.htm

[bobweaver]

184. It's so simple - just don't eat meat!

There are thousands of delicious recipes and foods to eat that don't include dead animals! I have been eating ovo-lacto vegetarian diet for 31 years and trust me - it never gets boring. There is an incredible variety of foods and recipes in the world. Just quit cold turkey so to speak. You will miss meat for about 1 month but then you will forget all about it, and the sight of a hamburger or steak will start to be revolting.

[jimbot]

193. Disagree

I have had periods of veganism to lower my cholesterol for over three months many times in my life and I still think burgers are yummy.
Many people told me that I would find meat revolting and I was anxiously awaiting that time...never came.
I still try not to eat meat that often and buy from Wolfe's Neck Farm here in Maine when I do eat meat.
I'm not condoning the torture mentioned in the article in any way shape or form, I'm just stating that I wish I didn't like beef so much and many of my vegetarian and vegan friends have told me that I would stop liking it after a few weeks of not eating meat. BTW, I think my longest vegan stretch was 6 months.
To clarify for others that are following ovo-lacto vegetarians like bobweaver (the poster I am replying to) eat no meat, chicken, or fish but eat dairy and eggs.
Vegans are vegetarian but do not eat dairy or eggs as well.
Also, it might make a difference why someone chooses to be vegetarian. I just wanted to lower my cholesterol and be healthier. I would imagine that people that choose not to eat animals for moral reasons might indeed not like the taste of meat after not eating it for awhile.
--JT

[flying_blind]

194. Consider some of the exotic red meats, like buffalo

I understand it is claimed to be heart healthier.

And being exotic, you'll be outside that whole AWFUL factory farm element that is at least as horrible as anything else in a food activist's quiver.

http://www.travelerstuba.com/travelersclub_009.htm

[NuttyFluffers]

198. buffalo is delicious: i recommend buffalo jerky: eom

[Djinn]

260. kangaroo's not bad either

had it ages ago and hated it but tried it again on the weekend and it was pretty good - needs to be tenderised. Don't think anyones doing any intensive roo farming either - although possibly not available in US

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

199. yeah bobweaver, you are RIGHT !!

I agree !!!
Don't eat meat ---period
Anyone who is "aware" and not living in denial realizes.
Ignore-ance is the only way to eat it-
Ignorance actually means the act of "ignoring".
If we didn't ignore the fact that those"baby back ribs" are the dismembered body parts of an animal that likely met a cruel end in shear terror, we could eat it with no problem.
It's when that damn awareness creeps in we can no longer live in denial and are forced to take a stand.

What's that they say is bliss?

[MISSDem]

214. So true. I stopped eating meat about 20 years ago and I never

missed it. My health is greatly improved and I don't have to feel guilty at every meal. Don't eat anything with eyes.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

192. Rubashkin's and Aaron's Best meats...

Those are the brands that AgriProcessors produces.

I haven't seen them around here; but I'm going to remember those names.

[JackieO]

195. GO PETA!

and a big FUCK YOU to all the haters

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

197. Regardless of idiotic opinions, Animal abuse would continue to worsen

if it weren't for some compassionate humans(PETA) who recognize unnecessary suffering imposed on ANY creature (not just our beloved pets) is uncalled for.
There are humane ways to do things(maybe they're not profitable ways) and the best way to stand up for animal rights is to not support the Corporations who do these deeds.
This means NOT EATING ANIMALS.
Would you eat your dog or cat if you thought it'd taste reeeeealy good?
Hell no.
Well, our pets have taught us that ALL animals have feeliings and personalities very similar to our own. We who oppose animal cruelty should stand up and unify to end this torture.
It has no place in a modern society.
Animals eat animals.
If we are higher beings and above that then we shoud DAMN WELL ACT LIKE IT !
And stop supportiing the killing of humans in other countries while we're at it.

[MISSDem]

215. "When I reflect that God is just, I tremble for my species"

words spoken by,I think it was, Thomas Jefferson. Some day the books will be balanced.

[dean_dem]

234. Coolest. Quote. Ever.

Really, I'm saving that one.

I think it's Lincoln though.

[DoNotRefill]

242. do you have a cite for that quote?

ie where he said that, as opposed to i tremble for my country?

Google turned up a whole bunch of hits, but the first 20+ didn't say WHERE he said that, and many did list cites for other quotes of his.

[Moloch]

243. What a great quote.

NT

[Sean Reynolds]

219. Too bad PETA doesn't put this much effort to the suffering of HUMANS.

I've never once seen PETA protest the war in Iraq, the horrible conditions of some of our 3rd world nations...and even poverty here in America. Oh well, PETA just proves it believes animals are more important than human life....which if the case, I hope PETA members start acting and living like animals. You know, by not living in a house, or driving a car, or wearing clothes. Don't watch TV, listen to the radio, play video games, wash your hair, drink anything outside of dirty land water and of course roll around with the pigs.

[Moloch]

220. That is not even the focus of PETA

There are plenty of groups to protest poverty and the iraq war.

Would you expect Amnesty International to push for animal rights? Would you expect the Eufala, Alabama Heritage Association to protest the war?

Or maybe you would have Doctors Without Borders pushing for preservation of historic buildings in Eufala, Alabama?

[mrbassman03]

228. Well put!

I will never understand PETA... execpt when they put naked women in cages to protest something.

[Bono71]

237. My biggest problem with PETA: no animal testing for

medical reseacrh? Why cure Aids when we could save 100,000 lab rates? PUHLEASE!

[Bono71]

221. Following up on our food conversation...today for lunch I

had a steak with green beans. Tonight I think I'll grill some Salmon...yummy!

[mrbassman03]

230. Well, make sure it is tofu salmon... with vegan lemon butter sauce.

PETA may be watching!

[Ignis]

233. Yes, what a danger that is, too!

The gun-toting PETA police just might kick down your door in their vegan jackboots and kill you on sight for eating animal flesh in your own home!

We must remain ever-vigilant, lest these monsters gain even more control over the fundamental rights of every citizen to eat meat! Just the other day, some awful PETA member tortured and killed my dear old sweet granny for eating veal for dinner!

They have so much power that the police are afraid to prosecute them and the media is afraid to report on their crimes! We must take America back for all right-thinking, meat-eating folks!

:eyes:

Meanwhile, back in reality...

[Bono71]

236. Not right-thinking, but I'd love to take a big ole bite out of

a chicken leg right about now...

Or a big juicy burger...mmmm....burger

[Ignis]

240. And we're happy for you.

Any particular reason you feel compelled to share your individual eating preferences with us in this LBN thread? There's this forum, see, it's called "The DU Lounge"; it's perfect for sharing little personal tidbits of this sort. I mean, I love the colour blue, but I don't talk about my own aesthetic preferences in political threads.

This isn't a steak-lover vs. salad-lover issue. This is about preventing unnecessary cruelty to animals...whether or not you plan to eat them once they are dead.

[JohnLocke]

241. Kosher slaughtering is far more humane than other forms of slaughter.

But Rabbi Chaim Kohn, the plant's supervising rabbi, told The New York Times in Wednesday's editions that the tapes were "testimony that this is being done right." In kosher slaughter, the animals' throats are sliced with a razor-sharp blade, intended to cause instant and painless death. Jewish law forbids stunning them first.
Federal law considers properly conducted religious slaughter as humane, and allows Jewish and Muslim slaughterhouses to forgo stunning. But the rules outlaw leaving animals killed that way conscious for an extended period of time.
(...)
According to the PETA Web site, AgriProcessors attorneys wrote back saying "Kosher slaughter is being conducted in accordance with the letter and spirit of Jewish law, which prescribes the most humane treatment of animals that has been known throughout human history."
Friedrich said kosher slaughter is more than twice as well regulated as conventional slaughter, being overseen by both the USDA and the Orthodox Union, and is widely believed to be more humane. "What this case indicates is that anybody who is eating meat is supporting horrific cruelty to animals," Friedrich said.

Seems PETA has its priorities wrong.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

247. seems YOU have your priorities wrong

Not PETA

Religious fundamentalism is so dangerous.
It can pretty much excuse those practicing the "religion" from just about any inhumane or unethical behavior.
Look at Christian fundamentalism, Muslim Fundamentalism, Jewish Fundamentalism--
Fundamentalism by it's very definition is narrow and close minded.
It is responsible for more death and destruction than any other singe factor in the history of mankind.

Aside from religious idiocracy,
"we've always done it this way" is a sad cop out.
The same argument was used to defend the practice of slavery.

We all should have a greater sense of right and wrong in a modern society.
Falling back on what is "traditional" to get a sense of what is "right" sadly excuses one from thinking for himself.


as most religions would like you to do:
Check your hat at the door and pick up your crayons.

No one, not even a religious fanatic, is going to tell a sensible person
that it's ok to rip out the throat of a live creature (with feelings just like your dog or cat)--
Some of us are evolving into higher thinking I guess.
looks like the stagnant folks will just eat out dust.

[JohnLocke]

262. Wow. That post was utterly random.

But congratulations for managing the highest personal attack-to-actual argument post of the night.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

265. Fundamentalism is "random"?-it's relevant to the thread-accepting cruelty

based on "tradition" and fundamental religious beliefs.
The whole idea of "kosher"
not questioning things just because someone else says it's ok.
Evidence is on video - how the hell can people defend that behavior?
it's less than human.

If someone refuses to see where I'm coming from
I guess they could easily write it off as personal attack-

Embedded beliefs are harder to question aren't they?-even when they're pointed out

[Djinn]

261. slitting the throat doesn't cause instant death

it's certainly quick but it's NOT painless or instant. It's also not always possible to hit the jugular first up, then there's the question of the restraint of the animals to enable kosher/halal slaughter.

Not all slaughter houses use the hanging method but many do and given a cows weight it is ridiculous to claim that hanging upside down by their ankles isn't painful and that they wouldn't thrash and writhe in an attempt to free themselves.

[JohnLocke]

263. If done properly it does

A professional slaughterer, or shochet, using a large razor-sharp knife with absolutely no irregularities, nicks or dents, makes a single cut across the throat to a precise depth, severing both carotid arteries, both jugular veins, both Vagus nerves, the trachea and the esophagus, no higher than the epiglottis and no lower than where cilia begin inside the trachea, causing instantaneous loss of blood flow to the brain and death in a few seconds. Any variation from this exact procedure could cause unnecessary suffering; therefore, if the knife catches even for a split second or is found afterward to have developed any irregularities, or the depth of cut is too deep or shallow, the carcass is not kosher (nevelah) and is sold as regular meat to the general public. The shochet must be not only rigorously trained in this procedure, but also a pious Jew of good character who observes the Sabbath, and who remains cognizant that these are God's creatures who are sacrificing their lives for the good of himself and his community and should not be allowed to suffer. In smaller communities, the shochet is often the town rabbi or the rabbi of one of the local synagogues; large factories which produce Kosher meat have professional full time shochets on staff.
Once killed, the animal is opened to determine whether there are any of seventy different irregularities or growths on its internal organs, which would render the animal non-kosher. The term "Glatt" kosher, although it is often used colloquially to mean "strictly kosher", properly refers to meat where the glatt (âìú) (lungs) are carefully examined for adhesions (i.e. scars from previous inflammation).
Large blood vessels must be removed, and all blood must be removed from the meat, as Jewish law prohibits the consumption of the blood of any animal. This is most commonly done by soaking and salting, but also can be done by broiling. An interesting fact, little-known outside of Jewish communities, is that the hindquarters of a mammal are not kosher unless the sciatic nerve and the fat surrounding it are removed (Genesis 32:33). This is a very time-consuming process demanding a great deal of special training, and is rarely done outside Israel, where there is a greater demand for kosher meat, since all meat sold in Jewish towns is required to be kosher by law. When it is not done, the hindquarters of the animal are sold for non-kosher meat.
--Wikipedia

[Djinn]

264. You're using PR there JohnLocke

this was clearly written by an advocate of Kosher/Halal (trying not to get accused of anti-semitism here) but medical science disputes this - even if it were true there's just no way that each time a cow is killed that the knife is perfectly sharp and the stroke is perfect.

You also do not address the subject of restraint.

BTW - can you make your text bigger - I'm going blind quickly enough as it is with the time spent here! ;-)

[a_random_joel]

244. My grandfather was a kosher butcher. What a crazy thread.

Part of the "design" of the kosher slaughter process is an attempt to be as "humane" to the animal by killing as quickly as possible.

That said, I think this particular one was a bad apple and so be it.

I am sure there are non-kosher slaughterhouses that are just as cruel and probabaly more frequent.

By they way, I'd like to see someone's definiiton of Non-Cruel slaughter - seems like an oxymoron to me. So any attempt to make it more humane seems honorable to me.

This thread has degenerated into a full on flame war by several different factions.

Some of us eat meat. Some of us prefer kosher meat. Unless you happen to like non-kosher hot dogs (good luck there).

PETA caught a bad apple. Let the authorities deal with it.

Big deal.

[Name removed]

246. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

248. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

250. I'm "on" everyone's back who IGNORES the obvious

Yeah for those who can't figure it out, I'm "on" the idea of what comes around goes around.
You think a certain way...certain things will happen.
Some learn the hard way.

I'm "on" all those "Bloody" lame excuses for primitive behavior-
That's what I'm on.
I'm on all the backs if those who choose to "ignore".

Those who are complicit by their support for "horror" may very well find horror close to home.


"Progessive" thinking is not limited to politics and who gets elected.

...and progressives are not always going to be spineless.
Some are going to speak up LOUDLY.

[Moloch]

257. That made no sense...

NT

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

266. to you at least, right

.

[a_random_joel]

267. Thanks for the PERSONAL ATTACK on my family and

"Blood", as you say. Which certainly is a notch in your "progressive" cap, right?

Please clarify your purpose.

I eat meat and enjoy eating it and have no qualms about it. Sorry.

If this is a debate on the merits of eating meat, in and of itself, then don't lecture me about being a "progressive" because part of that schtick is to be tolerant to those who don't think the way you do. Right?

Eating meat requires the slaughter of animals, unless you think it is less "cruel" to eat them alive?

Please explain to me the most "humane" way of slaughtering animals?

My point was that KOSHER slaughter is an "attempt" to cause the creature the quickest death and therefore the least amount of cruelty during the slaughtering process.

My secondary point was that aside from the FLAME BAITING and DIVISIVE use of the word KOSHER in this article, there is probably a lot of cruelty going on at any number of slaughter venues, and it wouldn't surprise me if a higher number of abuses are reported at NON KOSHER ones, because, frankly there are a higher number OF non kosher ones.

This is the first time I have heard of such abuse at a specifically KOSHER slaughterhouse. Which means that I am not giving tacit approval of such behavior, but rather, making the observation that that's a pretty damn good record for kosher slaugheterhouses, all things considered.

Upton Sinclair, you ain't. Good day.

[AlienGirl]

270. I seem to recall the alleged cruelty of kosher slaughter being used

by some propagandists in former times in some other place as a slam against Jews.

Incidentally, the non-kosher slaughter of animals, both in that other time and place and in present-day America, is just as bad--often worse.

Regarding restraint, here is a Grandin-designed kosher-slaughter restraint system: http://www.grandin.com/ritual/conv.sys.html

Tucker

[Moloch]

272. I don't think so...

PETA is just anti-meat. Bringing action against a kosher slaughterhouse simply maximizes their publicity.

[Moloch]

269. UPDATE: PETA files new complant against slaughterhouse

An animal rights organization is calling on Iowa Secretary of Agriculture Patty Judge to begin legal proceedings against a kosher slaughterhouse in Postville.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA, alleges that Agriprocessors Inc. has violated state law that requires the use of humane methods of slaughter. The organization planned to file a formal complaint with Judge on Monday.

"Again and again, when we pull back the curtain on slaughterhouses and factory farms, we find a level of abuse that would make most people lose their lunch," PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk said in a news release issued Sunday.

Secretary Judge wasn't available for comment over the weekend, said Machelle Shaffer, a spokeswoman for the Iowa Department of Agriculture.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041206/NEWS08/412060363/1001/NEWS