Bush attorneys ask U.S. Supreme Court to take Schiavo case

[Khephra]

TAMPA -- Attorneys for Gov. Jeb Bush asked the U.S. Supreme Court Wednesday to step into the battle over a state law that restored a feeding tube to Terri Schiavo despite her husband's contention she does not want to be kept alive artificially.

At issue in the legal fight is whether Bush overstepped his powers when he pushed through a measure in October 2003 ordering Schiavo's feeding tube be reinserted six days after her husband had it removed.

Dubbed ``Terri's Law,'' the measure was struck down by the Florida Supreme Court as an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers.

But Ken Connor, an attorney for Bush, said the issue now is whether the governor and Schiavo's federal rights to due process were violated when courts struck down the law. Bush wanted a jury trial on Schiavo's wishes.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-121schiavo,0,6329819.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

[Sannum]

1. This is going to sound so cold...

But she is a vegetable. The husband has the authority to make medical decisons. Not the parents.

[indianablue]

4. It may ot be the 'law'

I think the parents shoudl have final say. It is their daughter if they want to pay for her care it is fine with me.

[Hobarticus]

7. But when you get married, isn't your spouse legally responsible for you...

not your parents?

I don't know how that works.

I agree, though...if they want to foot the bill themselves, have at it. It's kinda ghoulish to me, but whatever floats their boat.

[bettyellen]

10. you wouldn't say that if you had known anyone in her position.

it's about a lot more than paying the bills, my friend. That's the smallest of issues here.

[indianablue]

11. I still say parents not Hubby have final say...

[bettyellen]

16. Most states say it's the spouse's . But when someone objects who is

closely related, they will err on the side of keeping a person alive. Only because they are afraid of a lawsuit, not because they feel it's the right thing to do.
This almost happened with my Mom. We had her healthcare proxy and her living will, she did not want to be stomach tubed ever, she is terminal.
Long story short my brother lost the papers, I had to fill out some others as the daughter, but they explained if my phycho aunt showed up, they would ignore Mom's own kid's wishes, and revive her at my Aunt's insistance. Thank god we found the living will with my Mom's signature.
It was no fun making that decision with her years ago when she was still sane. It was not easy finally implementing the DNR order.
Worse of all was knowing some asshole relative can show up and impose their own beliefs and run roughshod over family decisions that were already made.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

60. You're wrong

She's emancipated (over the age of consent), and married, so her husband is her legal next-of-kin, and he has the final say, regardless of what the parents say.

This is a travesty. This is a shameful miscarriage of justice, all because the parents are nuts, they're liars, and the rightwingnuts have adopted this as their personal "Right To Life" cause.

Of course, the rightwingnuts won't have a thing to do with taking care of her.

Do you know what her husband has done since this happened to her? He's been a damn martyr, absolutely devoted to her. We should all have loving and dedicated spouses, and we should definitely all have up-to-date Health Care Powers Of Attorney.

No, that's not what's commonly called a "living will." Those things are worthless.

[iamjoy]

84. Actually, The Husband...

Is living with another woman & they have a child (or children) together.

Certainly that makes it a little suspect that perhaps he wants to get on with his life. Which, hey, is understandable. Question - can you get a divorce from some one who is mentally incapacitated?

I mean, why wade into this fight about guardianship rights, undocumented wishes, living wills, etc? Give the man his divorce, let the parents be Terri's guardian and they can do whatever the flip they want, meanwhile, Mr. Schiavo can marry his girlfriend.

Terri Schiavo did not have a living will. Supposedly, that's the whole cause of debate. But I don't believe that for a second. This is a right to life case.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

85. How about this?

Ever consider the possibility that he loves his and that he honors what he knows are his wishes?

Ever consider the possibility that he's dedicated to his wife?

Ever consider the humanity involved in this matter?

Ever consider that he's an honorable man who will not abandon his wife, the woman he promised to love "until death do us part"?

It's easy to be callous about someone else's misfortune. I think compassion is called for her, and an attempt to understand the terrible tragedy that is being visited on the poor patient and her husband by parents who clearly are being used as tools by people with a specific and questionable agenda.

I agree - this is a rightwingnut right-to-life case, and, as is the wont of these droolers, they have landed on a case in which they have no personal stake. It's the ugliest kind of exploitation.

[Traction]

86. I totally agree

The husband gives me the creeps. I would almost bet my life that he hopes she never recovers. He seems to want her to die, as if he's guilty of something (or wants her money). For once I agree with Jeb Bush 100%

[Bouncy Ball]

13. Wrong.

She was MARRIED, which means her husband has final say, not her parents. Of course, it'd be nice if they both agreed, but they don't and he is her spouse so he gets final say.

[Bouncy Ball]

15. Also to add

if something like that were to happen to me (God forbid) I would certainly want and expect my husband to have authority with the doctors, not my parents. They finished being responsible for me many years ago, and I am married to my husband. My partner in life is who should speak for me.

Also by the way, what if a person's parents are mentally ill and/or alcoholic/drug addicted and the spouse is healthy and normal? Still think parents should always have the final say?

[bettyellen]

17. You are right, but in practice- the one who won't let you pull the

plug gets their ass kissed every time.
hospitals are afraid of lawsuits. unless you yourself have an iron clad living will (ruling out extroidnary means) and a trustworthy health care proxy to boot, it can + will all be overruled by a relation throwing their 2 cents in.
Had a very close scrape with this over the summer. My mom's sister is pro vegtable. If she stayed in touch often enough to know my Mom had been in the hospital, she would have overruled us kids. Luckily 1) Mom pulled through, 2) We never mentioned the hospitalization out of self defense!

[Inland]

21. You're both wrong. SHE got the final say.

The decision to unhook her was not based on what the husband thinks is best, or what the parents think is best. Its not because the husband has the final say.

It is because she expressed during her life the wish to be disconnected, according to the evidence accepted by the trial court judge.

Therefore it is her wish, nobody elses, that is being followed. Without evidence of her own desire, she would stay hooked up.

[IStriker]

28. ...because SHE expressed...

says the husband and his witnesses (his family). There is no living will and there is testimony from her family and her friends that she thought it was terrible to pull the plug on somebody in her condition. This same judge who has repeatedly ruled for her husband despite the fact that he has a horrendous conflict of interest (a "fiancee" and two children) ignored the evidence from opposing testimony as well as evidence that her husband just may be the person who is responsible for her being in this condition!

[Inland]

31. Still, the issue was what SHE wanted, and the judge ruled

based on the evidence of what she thought was best.

You don't believe the husband, but the judge did. I don't remember anybody ever saying that she thought people in a permanent vegetative state should be kept alive, but there may have been.

[The Stranger]

37. One thing is for certain.

It is up to the judge hearing the case, not fundamentalist Governors or people on the internet, to decide what her wishes were.

[sherilocks]

39. What should the husband do? Put his life on hold

for someone who has no life. I thought Schiavo's coma was caused by an eating disorder. What evidence do you have to the contrary? If you are looking for the cause of the coma, and it was due to bulimia or anorexia, why would you blame the husband? Eating disorders originate in childhood. They don't mysteriously appear in one's adult life.

[xpunkisneatx]

18. Its not cold at all

In fact, that is the least cold thing you could say. People in this condition have no sense of reality. She is "dead" yet still technically "alive" because her heart is still beating and her lungs are still breathing. But the rest of her is gone. If anything, keeping this woman alive for any longer is "cold". Why cause more suffereing for her? Her husband is the next of kin technically, therefore, her parents should have no say whatsoever. This whole case disgusts me. I hope Terri is in a better place soon.

[infusionman]

50. The real point here is...

Make arrangements to have your wishes known before something
happens to you.

I am a Registered Nurse. I deal with these very issues on a
daily basis as I work with a lot of endstage Cancer patients. 

Too often there is bitter fighting amongst family members
because the family can't make up their minds on what to do.
The medical profession of course not having a clear sense of
direction in these matters must make every effort to save the
patients life even though it is fruitless in most cases.

Education is the key. I urge everyone who reads this to learn
about "Advanced Directives" and put them in place so
that when it's your turn, at least there will be some
direction your family can take.

Victor, RN

[ReadTomPaine]

56. I saw the footage of her - she's no "vegetable"

She seemed far too lucid for that judgment. She seemed to respond to her parents and others in the room and show pleasure at time, among other responses. Seriously brain damaged? Yes. Catatonic? No. Track down the video online. It changed my mind on this case, and I'm a pretty hardcore right-to-die advocate.

RTP

[OldLeftieLawyer]

61. We all saw the videotape

She's about as sentient as a cabbage.

By the way, do you know that that videotape was made by the parents and some rightwingnut strangers who violated a court order, as well as their daughter's privacy, all to the ends of advancing their interests?

Loving, caring parents?

I think not.

[ReadTomPaine]

64. Didn't know about the court order. It's more to consider - thanks.

It's hard not to respond to that video footage. I intensely dislike the RW angle this has taken since the start. Like much of the news that comes out of Florida, this is a truly septic situation.

RTP

[janx]

63. I disagree.

She looked anything but lucid to me. And it was awful that her parents put those out there. They are currently in contempt of court for doing so.

Look, this whole thing is terrible, granted. But what you're seeing in those clips, which are tiny moments taken out of context, are reflexes. The part of her brain that produces reflexes is still intact. That's what makes it so tough.

She's in a persistent vegetative state. And she never wanted to exist that way.

[ReadTomPaine]

67. Your last point is the strongest of all. Tragic all around.

Violation of the court order also disturbs me, as well as the circus aspects of this. See my response above.

Thanks.

RTP

[janx]

71. There has been a LOT of misinformation and manipulation

about this case because it is political. People are using this woman as a religious/political pawn.

I can't blame you for being affected by what you saw, believe me.

I usually have no interest in these high-profile legal cases (though this has been pretty low-profile, relatively speaking). But this one is so important for so many reasons. It involves civil rights, religion (which is what got Terri into this mess in the first place), good old fashioned Bush politics, disability versus brain death...all kinds of things.

It's very important.

[ReadTomPaine]

72. Well, when a Bush gets involved, something is amiss, that's for certain.

[cornermouse]

2. There is a time to let go...

I hope Jeb, Bush, and the neo-cons don't succeed in their attempt. I know I wouldn't want to be condemned to a future of being warehoused for years without end.

[janx]

53. Can you imagine what would happen if they *did* succeed?

?

[China_cat]

3. When I compare this to

my mother-in-law who is in a hospital in Holland and not expected to live through the week, it makes me sick.

Mama has had everything but palliative care removed, with nobody gainsaying her wishes. But today my husband's brother asked him if he would have objections to allowing her to ask for euthanasia if she should decide that she can't take any more.

We both love her but I'm so glad that she will be allowed to decide for herself.

[Heddi]

8. I'm so sorry you're having to go through that

I'm a nursing student and we just had a seminar with the local hospice organization. This must be a tremendously difficult time for your family, but I too am glad that she is allowed to decide for herself. I wish that we treated our citizens with the same respect and dignity in the US.

My thoughts are with you.

[Hobarticus]

5. The Bush's "culture of (artificially-prolonged) life" at it's best...

Good God, this is disgusting.

What a horrifying thought, that the government can intervene to prolong your life against your wishes. So much for 'little government".

Let the poor woman go.

[Eurobabe]

6. He wants to ensure that no one pulls the plug on his sorry ass

when he is in a vegatative coma. That way his healthcare buds get more rich too. Everybody wins.

[barb162]

9. I saw the parents interviewed a few months ago and they both

think she is "aware."

But I don't know who is paying for this. It would have to break anyone's bank

[bettyellen]

12. at this point, it's probably medicade -- or somebody's insurance.

maybe I'm crazy, but that seems the least of it right now.

[trapper914]

36. She's a poster girl of the right wing....

...I would bet there is a fund set up, not only to pay for care, but to pay for her parents' lawyers as well.

[xpunkisneatx]

19. Yeah...real "aware"

We had a patient in the ICU a couple weeks ago that had been in there since February...yes. February. His wife was CONVINCED he would get up and walk out of the unit one day. She kept this man alive on a ventilator and Prisma (in room dialysis) for 10 months. She called all of us murderers cause we told her there was no hope. Finally, his pacemaker died, and he passed. But it is the most selfish thing to keep someone alive for your own benefit.

[barb162]

40. how old was the husband? Was he unconscious that 10 months?

I certainly agree with your conclusion but I bet she thought she was killing him if she let him go. I think they just can't deal with the fact that when they see their loved one "breathing" or showing other signs of life, like moaning or whatever, they literally think there is always a chance of recovery. Every so often there is something in a newspaper of some miracle recovery somewhere and they cling to that hope that it will happen to their own family member. It is so terribly sad, it's ...just so damned pitiful.

[janx]

45. It sure is. The part of her brain that initiates reflexes is still

there, but her cerebral cortex is gone. So the parents were able to isolate some small video clips of reflexes and insist that their daughter was responding.

It's terrible.

[Born_A_Truman]

24. Settlement

Terrie's husband (and Terrie) won a settlement (little over $1M) and Terrie's parents have accused him of wanting her to die so he can spend the rest of the settlement. They also have suspicions that he did something to cause her condition.

This could all be paranoia on their part, but he did order antibiotics be withheld when she got a bad infection shortly after the lawsuit settlement several years ago. The medical staff evidently overruled him and gave her antibiotics and she recovered.

Her parents state they want to become her guardians and will pay for her care and Terrie's siblings have said they would continue for their parents when their parents die.

[Bouncy Ball]

14. In my opinion

he did overstep his powers.

(bush, jeb, that is)

It's so crazy. What is the point of keeping her alive when she knows nothing and no one, cannot interact, cannot communicate, etc?

It just seems so cruel to keep her alive like this.

Some good has come out of this case: my husband and I drew up living wills with orders not to do such a thing to either of us.

[malaise]

20. Make sure you have a Living Will

When my mum was dying my only brother (her darling baby) wanted all sorts of tubes shoved into her. The daughters simply handed him her handwritten 'living will' signed and sealed. That was that - she died peacefully in her sleep a few days later with her children and grandchildren by her bedside. I wrote mine the week after her funeral. It prevents horrible stories like this one.

[Inland]

22. Good advice. Save your family the burden of the decision.

[depakid]

23. Doesn't look to be a federal question here

Then again, there wasn't an honest federal question presented in Bush v. Gore, either.

The Florida Supreme court ruled on a procedural matter arising under their own constitution. I read the case and it was clear to me that it was written the way it was precisely to avoid federal jurisdiction.

[HockeyMom]

25. Religious Fundies

Bottom line is they want to control when you are born and when you die. NO government has the right to do that.

About 5 years before my Mom passed when she was first diagnosed with cancer, she came to me and said "I do not wish to be kept alive as a vegetable as some sort of medical experiments to see how long I can live." At that time, she made out a living will and gave me power of attorney. Before she went into the hospital, she made and paid for all of her funeral arrangements and told me how she wanted her property distributed. On the door to your hospital bed, there was a copy of the living will, with the added instructions, "Do not resuscitate". Yes, it was very very difficult to let her go, but it would have been cruel and selfish of me to do otherwise.

I just feel this is just more of the so called "Christian" fundies wanting to control every aspect of people's lives based on their idea of religion.

The normal procedure, where there isn't a living will, is for the courts to presume that a spouse know more about the person's wishes than the parents, since the spouse lives with the person on a day to day basis. But now, I guess the GOVERNOR/GOVERNMENT knows more than anybody else.

[depakid]

33. You might want to look at the Cruzan case

To date, that spell out one's rights against the states under current federal law on the specific issue re: family decisions about relatives/spouses in vegetative states.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=497&invol=261

There's also quite an compelling book out on the whole situation called The Long Goodbye by William H. Colby.

http://www.lifes-end.org/mediastories/long_goodbye.phtml

[OldLeftieLawyer]

62. It's over

The Supreme Court's not gonna touch this one. That's my prediction.

If they do, I'm hanging up my law license, because there will be no more law worth defending.

[janx]

65. Do you know how long it generally takes them to decide

whether or not to take a case?

When will we know?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

70. My guess is that ......

they'll announce it when they break for the summer.

[janx]

73. Why would it take so long?

And is Jebbie appealing to them just to prolong the situation and appease his religious right supporters for six more months? (This is what I suspect.)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

74. Because that's how it's done

It's traditional, but all the Justices review and consider the cases and vote on whether or not to hear a case. It's a lot more complicated than civilians might suspect. So, that's why it takes so long.

And, yes, anything to prolong the agony. We've seen that over and over with the rightwingnuts. Their contempt for the suffering of others and their lack of compassion are exactly what would make Christ Himself turn His back on them.

[janx]

75. Doesn't there have to be a FEDERAL aspect to the case

before the USSC will take it? It doesn't make sense that they should take this one just because Jebbie didn't like what the FLA SC ruled, is it?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

76. There are a number of requisite conditions

that must exist before the US Supreme Court will assert jurisdiction.

They're all arguable, and that's why it takes a long time for the Court to decide whether or not they'll hear it.

I'm going to have to start billing you my hourly rate soon. Just so you know.

;)

[janx]

77. Sorry...

But I've been watching this case for awhile, and I'm not usually into court cases. This one is very important as I see it.

Thanks for all of your information. I dearly hope this woman will be able to finish dying, in peace.

[depakid]

78. just a quick note

I haven't read the petition for cert, but my understanding is that the basis for federal jurisdiction is that somewhere along the process, there wasn't a proper guardian ad litem representing Ms. Shaivo's interests and that was a violation of her procedural due process rights under the 14th Amendent.

Pretty weak claim... I think, but these days, I've given up predicting what that court will do.

[janx]

79. There was some shuffling of guardians at some point, I think.

Her parents were never satisfied.

Suppose the Supremes take the case and decide in Jeb's favor. Wouldn't that set a fairly dangerous precedent?

[depakid]

81. Not necessarily

If it's narrowly tailored to that procedural point, then all it really speaks to is how people in persistent vegetative states need to be represented in procedings to withdraw artificial nutrition and hydration.

They could, of course revist Cruzan, but I doubt they'd want to open that can of worms at this point, especially since Oregon v. Ashcroft (physician assisted suicide) is in the pipeline (of course, they may not take that case, either).

[janx]

82. Thanks--but I wish I felt better about this.

Florida had laws governing her husband's role in the situation.

And whenever something involves a Bush* and the USSC, I tend to get a little nervous... ;-)

[davis_islander]

26. Torn on this particular case...

I firmly believe that the individual's wishes take priority over all, but in the event that those wishes are "disputed" as they have been in this case, I would always go with the spouse's decision, not the parent's or other interested parties. There are conflicting stories on what Terri's wishes were in the event that such a tragic situation was visited upon herself. Her husband asserts that she wished to not be carried on life support, though her parents assert that she made statements to them that contradict his assertion. Another point of contention is the fact that Terri does NOT need any artificial life support per se to live OTHER than food. She breathes on her own, her body evacuates on its own, etc. She just can not feed herself. In other words, she is not being kept alive by machines at all, she has a tube inserted directly into her stomach with which food is delivered by a nurse at scheduled intervals. Again, it is not a question of "pulling a plug" whereby she would die relatively quickly, it is a question of withholding food and letting her starve to death over what may be weeks. The parents believe this to be cruel and they are supported by many doctors who are of the opinion that she would go through agony during the starvation process. The husband's medical experts say that, though there will be tremendous pain, she will never know it because of the condition of her brain. My solution - EUTHANASIA - why are we so afraid of giving someone a painless death in this case and others like it? Administer a lethal injection and let the poor woman die! Just like we've been saying for a long time "it's MY body and I should be able to do with it what I believe is right for ME" If I want to go out, it's MY decision to make... Also, FREE KEVORKIAN! Like any of that will ever happen....

I'm from Tampa and as you can imagine the Terri Schiavo case is a huge story here. Note - to the parent's point, Terri does smile when she is being talked to, and exhibits other behavior that could make one think she is somewhat responsive. Doctors say that she is not doing it voluntarily, that it is just her body's reaction to stimulus. The tapes are hard to watch, you SO WANT her to be there. I can understand the parent's grief and desire to hang on to that last bit of hope. That is why I'm so torn....

[IStriker]

29. "If I want to go out, it's MY decision to make..."

I agree with you completely, but the problem is this is not TERRI'S decision. No one can say for certain what she wants or doesn't want. With the humongous conflict of interest her husband has (new "fiancee" and two children) I can't believe that any judge would permit him to make the decision. I am torn over this also and have followed it for a good while reading your FL papers on the internet. I really believe they should err on the side of life when there is so much contradictory evidence about her wishes. If it were up to me to make the decision, that is what I would have to do in this case.

[Must_B_Free]

27. The republican thing to do...

would be to test experamental drugs on her and see what happens, like those foster care crack babies in NYC.

[Erika]

30. Marriage is a state licensed contract between adults

When a couple marries, it also is a contractual agreement with the state. The husband and wife become one for legal purposes. The parents did not enter into that contract.
The debts of one will be assumed by the other. Children will be under the custody of the parents. I think of it a legal promise made by the parties to each other and sanctioned by the state.

Terri's parent have no right to void this legal promise between the two married adults. By marriage, they gave each other the legal right to speak for the other.

Jeb is out of line by a country mile. His religious beliefs are just that. As much as the Republicans want to make this country a theocracy, they are not going to be able to. Terri's parents became rich as poster children for the ultra right wing pro-lifers. They've never had more money in their whole lives than under this scheme.

[Samurai_Writer]

35. Mr. Shiavo 'terminated' his 'marriage contract'

When he started living with another woman and had two children with her, while his legal wife remains in the hospital. The ONLY reason he wants her to die is to keep the money he won for her suit, and to free him to marry this other woman. He could have divorced her years ago and remarried, but hasn't, because of the money.

I don't agree with Jeb overstepping his powers to keep Terry alive, but I also would like to see the parents win this case and be responsible for Terry's wellbeing.

[recoveringrepublican]

47. What money? He already got his..SHE only received

$700,000. You do the math, nursing home, operations due to failing organs, lawyer fees, etc. You and I are paying for her care. Not that I have a problem with that, but should this ever happen to me, I want my husband, who knows me best, to decide.

As for him living with someone else and having two children, who gives a shit? Doesn't mean he doesn't love her also and believes he knows what she would want.

[janx]

48. I admire that guy.

He tried to rehabilitate her for years, and he remained faithful to her--or what was left of her--for years also. He's been going through this hell since when, 1991?

He's a very brave man.

[recoveringrepublican]

57. I agree, there is no money...if that was all he was after

why put himself through all this crap for this long? Death threats, accusations, being smeared in the press, etc? I honestly believe he did have a discussion with Terry about this.

[alarimer]

51. This is the part that bothers me

i agree with you and the posters above that he certainly seems to be somwhat shady. I have not followed it closely but this case is not the same as one in which a person could not breathe on their own. He wants her to starve to death and that seems cruel to me. If the parents want to take on her care, why shouldn't he let them? He could divorce her and be done with any responsibility.

[recoveringrepublican]

59. Maybe there is a nurse reading this to correct me

if I'm wrong, but my aunt is a head nurse at a nursing home. We were talking about Terry, and my aunt said that people like Terry already in the process of dying don't feel the starvation sensation. That their organs slowly shut down and then they die. That it's not that unusual to pull feeding tubes and that in a case like this it is not cruel.

I remember when my husband's grandfather was dying. One day he just refused to eat, said he was no longer hungry. He died the next week. He never seemed to be in pain.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

66. Oh, bite me

Like his life stopped when she died?

Did you know that he went to nursing school so that he could properly take care of his wife?

How dare you cast your narrow little beliefs and judgments upon a man caught in a situation so horrendous?

Bite me twice.

[noonwitch]

32. It's wrong to starve someone to death.

It's not the same as pulling the plug. I saw the video her family made, and I'm not sure that she really is a vegetable. She does respond to people, with facial expressions. We don't know what she wants, and a lot of us are projecting our own fear of being in her condition onto the issue.

These cases are tough-a relatively young person can live a long time in her condition. If she was on a respirator, I'd support pulling the plug. But I don't support starving someone to death, it's just plain wrong. On top of that, I think the husband just wants her out the way, so he can get on with his life. Fine, but divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

[trapper914]

38. About that video

Uncut, it's several hours long. Editing makes her seem more responsive than she really is.

[lawladyprof]

34. But, but I thought the Republicans were in favor of strengthening

the marriage bond, the bond between husband and wife. "Yeah, we are in favor of that except. . . ."

[this_side_up]

41. A Living Will is not enough. Everyone should

also have a Durable Power of Attorney for
Health Care.

Edit to add the word also. You need both.

[HuffleClaw]

42. this is about JEB's 'morals' being MADE INTO LAW

this is not about the husbands rights or the parents rights. this is about jebbie poking his nose into something that isn't his business on the basis of 'morals'... ...HIS MORALS. 'nuff said.

[ernstbass]

43. This is part of the "culture of life"

that chimpie is always talking about. No one dies unless we slaughter you in Iraq or execute you in prison.

[janx]

44. Do the Bushes think they are gods?!

This is disgusting! the government has no business being involved in this!

(Sorry--but I just heard about this appeal of Jebbie's.)

[janx]

46. Does anyone know when the USSC will decide whether or not

take the case?

And what are the chances that it will hear the case? Isn't the case up to Florida?

[rhyfeddu]

49. I'd hate to be Solomon on this one...

And as a gay woman, the debate about who has ultimate authority here, the spouse or the parents, has extra resonance with me. I can imagine how quickly my partner would be shoved aside in the decision making process..

..It gives my a knee-jerk sympathy for the husband, but then I heard/saw things that didn't make me exactly trust his motives (including some posts above).

Not a good spot. I guess the lesson is: don't think it can't happen to you, and get the paperwork in order. And hope it gets honored.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

69. Want some free legal help?

If you want, I could give you a copy of a Health Care Power Of Attorney that I, and some fellow attorneys, drew up for a major senior citizen group a number of years ago. It's quite thorough and legally unbreakable in any and all jurisdictions.

PM me if you're interested. It would be my pleasure.

[Kimber Scott]

52. If her husband doesn't want her, he should give her back to her parents.

It's not his right to kill what they created. (And I speak as if she is an object because she is, now.)

[janx]

54. What her husband wants

is to honor her wish not to live as a vegetable.

[Kimber Scott]

55. If there were no insurance money, no new family, no parents dying over

this I would believe you, but I don't. (And, yes, I know the money's gone now, but when he started this, there was a lot to be had. Too bad she used it all by living so long.)

[janx]

58. You are contradicting yourself.

If he had all of that money, yet he didn't spend it on anything other than his wife's care, why does the money matter at all as a strike against him?

There's been a lot of internet gossip over this guy, and I find it shameful. The facts point to no wrongdoing by him; the only negatives come from conjecture and an effort by her parents to smear him. I feel terrible for her parents, but they've gone too far in their efforts to impugne this guy's character.

Why shouldn't he have a new family? He tried to rehabilitate his wife for years, until it was determined that her cerebral cortex was gone and she could not be rehabilitated.

Think about it: Where is the information you're getting about him coming from?

[moobu2]

68. You're right,

Right wingers used the issue to rally right to life voters.
They shamefully smeared the husband with any lie they could come up with.

[janx]

80. Take a look at this to see the lengths to which they will go:

To: Scoop 1; floriduh voter
If you go look up Michael Masinter on yahoogroups Disability-Civil-Rights you will see ACLU connections to Miami University, etc. he is a teacher there and a chair of the ACLU. I also have proof that various people in the U.S. DOJ Disability Rights Section monitor that group (as I have return e-mail receipts of them being out of the office when I posted to that group before I was kicked off) but again have done nothing to help Terri, information was posted on that group proving attempted murder and felony neglect, medicaid fraud, etc. but also some of the same people in the U.S. DOJ have ignored responding to my certified letters.. including the mini-Cd of evidence proving the attempted murder, etc. (they accepted the certified letters but never was I contacted by them).



51 posted on 12/01/2004 7:03:45 PM PST by pc93

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1291663/posts?q=1&&page=51

[infusionman]

83. What are you talking about?