Property taxes rising nationwide

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1203/p01s01-usec.html?s=hns

While fuel prices may be starting to skid, there's another expense closer to home that is upsetting many Americans: rising property taxes.

From Madison, Wis., to Bucks County, Pa., the local tax assessor is dipping deeper into homeowners' pockets as real estate prices rise and states share less of their tax revenue with local governments.

With people starting to receive their 2005 tax bills, the levies are squeezing the middle class and senior citizens - leaving them less to spend on everything from restaurants to roof repair. There is also concern the taxes could particularly hurt the home-buying chances of the young or civil servants such as firefighters. States such as New Jersey now have grass-roots efforts - verging on revolts - for reform.

"There is a property tax crisis," says Myron Orfield, a property tax expert at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. "It's especially bad in states like New Jersey, Ohio, Connecticut, and Illinois, which are property-tax dependent."

[ScrewyRabbit]

1. Tax the middle class

We're carrying the water for the Cheneys of the world.

[Sara Beverley]

40. States localities have raise revenue since losing Fed aid to hughe tax cut

to the wealthy. The only people who can really afford the rising cost of property taxes are the wealthy who can pay them with those huge tax cuts they received and will receive. They won't even feel it.

[SharonAnn]

2. This is exactly what we predicted following the Federal "tax cuts"

that would shrink the money to states who would then reduce the money to local governments.

Yep, working out just fine. Middle class bearing more and more of the burden. Wealthy and cororations managging to get negotiated reductions or elimination of property taxes.

Yep, looks good!

[aquart]

10. Yup. We told them so.

[Just Me]

58. The natural consequence of "supply-side" economics,...

,...make the rich, richer,...disappear the middle-class,...make the poor starve,...

[GHOSTDANCER]

64. you mean slaves.

[ramapo]

3. No duh

The money has to come frm somewhere. Property taxes here in North Jersey are amazingly high, $10,000/year is not a lot.

[AgadorSparticus]

73. i literally gasped when i read your post. good god. $10,000/yr??

what is the value of the properties? that is insane...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. The amazing thing is...

The incredible amount of disconnect in the lumpen proletariat, regarding property tax hikes and their relationship to federal tax policies, especially as regards the amount of federal taxes that return to the states.

This disparity MUST be addressed by the Democrats. The repukes play it as our fault, when it is their rape of the "blue" states, as regards federal tax distributions that favor the "red" by as much as 80%.

[AP]

9. Regardless of what the Feds do, States and local govt's have a choice ...

... about how they collect tax revenue. Of course, local gov'ts are in a bind, but they don't have to give property tax breaks to every corporations which hikes up its skirt and bats its eye lashes. The state gov't could definitely chose to raise revenue from progressive income tax (and then share the revenue with municipalities).

In other words, you have to fight all the same battles you wage over federal tax policy at the state and local level too.

[truth2power]

63. Whre I live, I think quite a few new businesses

are still getting tax abatements.

This is under the radar, of course. the business promises to provide a few minimum wage jobs and, since their taxes are reduced, the additional cost of community services such as police and fire are passed on to the property owner. Sweet! :eyes:

[AP]

70. And when you see that your town is raising its rates .25 or .75 percent

that increase is only being born by homeowners (with their flat wages, and decreasing savings) and not the richest citizens of our communities: profit making businesses.

[iamjoy]

71. Don't Forget Schools....

In Florida they are overcrowded & they rank low

They charge impact fees on developers to build homes, supposedly to build roads, schools, etc, but I'm not sure it really happens the way it should. And meanwhile, the developers pass those impact fees onto the buyers, raising the price of a home. With the median home price in Central Florida being what it is, cops, firefighters & teachers could not afford a home on just that one salary.

Anyway, what good is a $300 tax cut if your property taxes go up $500 because the municipalities can't pay for services any other way? Howard Dean tried to tell us, but no one was listening - I was no fan of candidate Dean, but he was right about so many things.

[AP]

72. I don't think Dean had it completely right when he said that.

Yes, if the gov't can't give grants to the states, the states will have to make up the shortfall. That is true.

States have one major way to make money: income tax. Local gov'ts have two: property and sales tax.

Sales tax is extremely regressive. Property tax is very regressive in practice because most corps don't pay any and they are generally the richest taxpares in a community.

Dean said that if he gave the middle class a break relative to the rich, they'll just have to pay more in state and local taxes to make up the difference.

That's not true. Or at least it's a totally lame excuse for not doing the right thing on the federal leve. The feds have an obligation to tax progressvely, and so do the states. The feds should allocate the tax burden progressively, without regard for what states will do. And Democrats need to put the same pressure on their state and local gov't to tax progressively regardless of how the federal gov't taxes you.

Dean was telling the truth when he said states will have to make up shortfall. But he was totally wrong when he tried to use that as a reason to be opposed to a more progressive federal tax code.

[freedom_to_read]

34. plz explain

the adjective "lumpen"... I've never heard it before.

thanks!

[alcuno]

5. "Ownership Society" = "You are on your own."

[gaia_gardener]

6. This is one of the reasons

we're not buying a house when we move. $5,000 property tax on $100,000 home. It probably doesn't seem like that much to some people, but it's a lot more than we are paying now and more than we could possibly afford.

[LiberalFighter]

13. You pay the tax whether you rent or buy

[NYC]

20. How true.

[gaia_gardener]

22. Yes, but generally rent is cheaper

On that $100,000 home (the cheapest we saw for sale) the payment, interest, insurance and taxes would run about $1,200. For a similar house, the rent is about $800. I can only guess that it's because they've already paid off the note.

[shanti]

45. where do you live??

my home is worth about 190,000, property taxes at about $900 a year, house note about 800 a month. that isn't even close to your figures.

oh, and i live in california...

[gaia_gardener]

53. This was in McAllen, TX

I don't remember the full breakdown, but the property taxes alone were $300/month. Figure $750 for house payment and another $150 for insurance and PMI - $1200.

[Bridget Burke]

24. Definitely. But rent generally goes up gradually.

Property owners get it all in one bill. I imagine it can be a shock.

[Pachamama]

46. True...however, currently renters in my area (the Bay Area) aren't paying

...but they may in the future...then watch out....

There is a real estate bubble about to burst with what is happening in the market...

I live in an area where you can't even buy a house under $1 Million, and even for $1 Mill, it gets you an "average" house. Even with $200K down (assuming people have that) and a jumbo mortgage of $800K with monthly mortgage of $6,000 and a tax of 1% of the purchase price at $10K annually (and rising), that brings most people's monthly housing expense to nearly $7,000 monthly - granted there are tax deductions, bringing it to more of a $4,500 monthly expense. However, renters can rent a comparable house in the area for $3-3,500 monthly - a savings of atleast $1,000 monthly to a renter.

[Erika]

7. Our Property Tax Was Raised by $300

as I posted in another thread. Part of the hike was because the legislature gave huge tax breaks to corporations as incentives to stay. Yes, they are socking it to the middle class or what is left of the middle class.

[AP]

8. Squeezing the Middle Class -- what a great name for a band.

Their first album could be called Bedtime for Democracy.

Their hit single could be "Don't Blame Me (I voted for Kerry)."

[freedom_to_read]

35. bedtime for democracy's been taken

DKs, 1986

http://www.winstonsmith.com/gallery/albums/small/dk_bedtime.html

[Charlie Brown]

11. But...But...Bob and Steve can't get married

In my own Inb(RED) state, commercial/property taxes are expected to increase on the local level, as our Republican legislature has cut spending on education, hospitals, etc., and the school boards have to find some way to keep up. Ahh, the "Great Leap Forward" of the 21st century.

[genieroze]

12. That's because we get back less from the feds in state aid then we pay

to the Federal government

[shrike]

26. Wish the article would say that

But it doesn't.

[Liberaltarian]

14. ours went DOWN... by almost $500.

but that was due to claiming the homestead exemption.

[marew]

15. I bought my house just under 3 years ago...

and my property tax DOUBLED. It is a small older home in FL, nothing fancy, but in a decent neighborhood.

16. HOUSE BUBBLE n/t

[Ksec]

17. Mine went up 13% just about a week ago.

My bills are killing me. They keep rising while my checks stay the same. This shit has got to stop before it becomes impossible to even keep up with the utilities. How is a person supposed to raise two kids in this country anymore?

[Erika]

18. Bush BS About Low Inflation

Our property taxes are going up, our water bill is being increased by 22%, gas and heating costs are sky rocketing as is insurance and medical care. Family income has decreased by $1,500 a year under Bush. But I still hear all this BS that the economy has recovered and inflation is low.

I don't trust anything put out by the Bush administration. His lies about the status of economy only brings memories of all the "wmds" that Iraq had and how we could face a mushroom cloud over this country in 45 minutes.

Four more years of hell.

[durablend]

28. You're not supposed to...

Once funds/assets have been completely disbursed from you to big business/*co, you're expected to disappear.

[OneBlueSky]

19. I am getting SCREWED on property taxes! . . .

the town, due to the misdeeds of a former Republican supervisor now in jail, is raising my taxes 28% . . . the school district, due to a pending settlement with a now bankrupt local utility, is raising my taxes 10% . . . and the county, due to whatever, is raising my taxes 3% . . . that's a 41% increase! . . . and there will no doubt be more a year from now . . .

[kysrsoze]

52. $5,000 a year for a 2BR condo in Chicago

It's getting beyond ridiculous.

[Scout]

21. kick

[Mari333]

23. Im selling everything I own

already sold all of my furnishings, everything...selling some land I owned, sold a house...getting down to the nitty gritty. not spending one thin dime on anything I dont need. The Clinton era, we all did very well...life was great..now I have to protect myself, and it means living with nothing much but the clothes on my back and a bed and a roof over my head and a little food..and Im lucky I have that at now. I wont let that bastard in the WH destroy my life anymore then he already has.

[wicket]

25. This is the "Bush tax"

He didn't really cut taxes, but merely shifted the burden to state and local taxes.

[straight shot]

27. merge municipalities and get involved in spending cuts

People have to quit complaining about local taxes and start attending meetings and demanding they cut costs. We have numerous small municipalities that could merge with other neighboring municipalities and cut costs, but they won't because they all want to keep their jobs. Merging municipalities could save billions in just one state.

The problem with local governments is they just keep spending and spending and spending, expecting rising house prices to keep the moola flowing in.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

29. Property taxes are raised bec. federal $$ is going to Bush tax cuts

the burden falls on state and local taxes, because the federal money has dried up.

[straight shot]

30. I disagree

Sorry, I disagree. Take a look at your local budgets. The biggest increases will be staff related costs and benefits for the staff. The local governments are hiring people left and right.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

32. You disagree with the truth.

You made the assertion. Back it up with links. The burden of proof is on you.

Firehouses are closing in NYC and Boston. If a terrorist strikes, it ain't gonna be in buttfuck, nebraska.

local budgets have increased in urban areas to meet homeland security standards.

Enjoy your brief stay. You're pretty transparent.

[straight shot]

36. hmmm

Didn't we just see a big MSNBC article on how my party has lost too much support because it has gone too far left?

Kick me out if you want, it will not change future elections if you do not pay attention to others ideas.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. I'm a moderate. We deal in facts here.

you're quoting the Cato Institute on another thread and we're supposed to believe you're a Democrat? :eyes:

[oneighty]

41. Local

Our community (Commune) has joined our police force with the county Sheriffs dept. We as a commune share highway maintenance with the Town and county wherever possible. As a commune we abandoned our very own water supply and joined with water services in a nearby county to further our community.

Now our taxes have increased dramatically as has our water expenses.

Consolidation did not work here.

180

[lynx rufus]

55. That is a depressing story

I wonder why they couldn't save some money

[jwirr]

68. Many localities have hiring freezes.

[lynx rufus]

54. Elimate the tax cuts for the rich!

I live in a community where way too much is spent
by the municipality and, yes, they could cut a lot of bullshit
and consolidate some things. But let's eliminate those
tax cuts first. Nation wide, we are cutting back in the wrong areas.

[Strawman]

31. Who needs a home when you can go to a "faith based" shelter?

Next you'll be hearing about "faith based industries" in these Walmart sized church compounds. "We'll give you a cot in a gymnasium, and 3 square meals, but you have to work in our faith based factory for free. And when your kids get done with their religious instruction they can put in a few hours of work on the line." All subsidized by the government.

[SmokingJacket]

33. Assessments AND rates have increased, a double whammy.

Because of rising property values, our house is now assessed at twice what we paid for it seven years ago... which would be great except that 1) we're not moving and 2)we still couldn't afford a bigger house.

Our taxes have BALLOONED -- our mortgage payment is now over half taxes.

Totally dwarfs chimpy's "tax cut."

[Gyre]

37. Prop 13 in California

doesn't look so bad now.

Gyre

[AP]

42. Prop 13 has one bad aspect:

it values your property at the time of transfer. Middle class people buy houses relatively frequently. You're forced to move to take a job. You buy a small house. You make a little money. You buy a bigger house. Your kids move. You buy a small house.

Corporations rarely buy and sell their property. The have a corporate headquarter for years. They merge with another company. The form a new corporation and lease the property to the new corporation.

Rich people have mansions they live in their whole lives.

In CA, an couple earning 80K could be paying 5% property tax on a property valued at 500,000 bucks but a million dollar corp which hasn't changed its headquarters in 50 years could be paying property tax of 5% on a property that was valued in 1979 at 100K bucks.

That's crazy!

[Barkley]

51. But Arnold says that high taxes are running firms out of the state!

Prop 13 is also helping make the current CA real-estate bubble possible

One way to tame inflation and bubbles is through taxes.

Warren Buffet says that he pays more taxes on his $500,000
Omaha property $4 million Laguna Beach property.

Clinton raised the marginal tax rate for the highest
brackets from 33 - 39% in 1994.

That contributed to reducing the deficit and allowed the
US to record the first budget surpluses in more than 20 years
in 1997-2000.

Although this small tax increase didn't stop the dot.com bubble
at least it helped balance the budget.

[BearsCubs]

39. Those in Texas should join C.L.O.U.T.

It's not Democrat and it's not Republican.. It's a group started by KSEV in Houston to fight rising property taxes.

I believe it stands for Citizens (united to) Lower Our Taxes..

[LakeCohoon]

43. Logic Dictates

Property values rise = Property taxes rise

Am I too much of a realist?

[FlaGranny]

48. Weellll,

"Property values rise = Property taxes rise."

If you can afford to buy $100,000 home and you do, and a few years later it is being assessed at $200,000, and your income has increased by no more than 3%, or stayed the same, you now can no longer afford to live in the house you could afford when you bought it.

[LakeCohoon]

65. Do You?

So, do you favor something like California has (Prop 13) that would limit real estate taxes?

[gaia_gardener]

49. Well, yes the AMOUNT

would rise, but what we're seeing here is the PERCENTAGE is rising.

So your home is worth $100,000 and you're being taxed 3% (pulling these numbers out of my ass), your property taxes would be $3,000 annually. If your home value rose to $150,000, your property taxes would be $4,500 annually.

However, what we're seeing is that the percentage is going up to 6% (again, out of my ass) so that the home that had a natural increase in worth now pays $9,000 annually.

So the home that was worth $100k and was paying $3,000 annually is now worth $150k and is paying $9,000 annually. BIG increase and enough to make some people have to sell the house.

[LakeCohoon]

66. Not In My Area

It sounds like you have researched this issue more than I have; however, that is not the case in my local. The city council has actually dropped the rate a bit for my primary home.

Furthermore, the folks in the area where I own a mountain cabin put pressure on the county supervisors and the rate was lowered by 28%!

So, IMHO, this issue is better controlled at the local level.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. my property taxes went up $1,200 in 6 months..thanks bush* for the tax cut

$2,700 total since 2000

[Pachamama]

47. I met a woman in Cleveland airport on the day after the election who said

that while she was a Democrat, she voted for Bush because of taxes...I said "Oh, you must make over $200K, I can see why that was important"...she went on to saying it was because she lived in Shaker Heights (outside of Cleveland) and she paid some of the highest property taxes in the state and country....I then told her that I was reading the Cleveland paper that morning and that I saw that certain school tax bond measures had been approved and that her taxes went up - she got pissed and said, "yeah, I know and my kids are in private schools" - I then pointed out to her that those taxes passed and went up regardless of whether Kerry or Bush won....I then asked her if she was aware whether or not those property taxes were going to continue going up and that she just voted for a man that was going to force states and local gov't to raise taxes to cover differences in federal funding and that Bush was also going to be taking away her's, her husband's and her kids future social security....not to mention the deficit and the future burden in taxes that was going to mean for her kids....

She just looked at me indignantly and then started saying that Bush was the only one that could fix the mess in Iraq....

UGH....

:hi: Elsewhere's Daughter!

[midnight armadillo]

50. This is my great fear in home ownership

I still rent, and won't be buying a house for 2 years. Due to the insane Boston housing market, my great fear is that we'll buy a house we can afford, and then get priced out of it after a few rounds of property tax increases.

Of course, by moving far enough west that the houses get affordable my commute will greatly increase, costing money there...<sigh>

[mulethree]

56. Excellent! and now we'll eliminate them as federal deductions! MuHahaha

[davsand]

57. Tax bills go up for a LOT of reasons.

I live in Illinois, and I can tell you that part of the increase you will see in your next property tax bill is gonna be because of the increase in EXEMPTIONS that became law last summer. Yep, you saw that right--the increases are due to the increase in EXEMPTIONS (those things that are supposed to reduce your tax bill.)

Blag signed a bill into law last summer that increased all the exemptions held in Illinois. Owner occupied (also known as homestead limited) exemptions went from $3500 to $5000. Senior occupied went from being worth $2000 to being worth $3000.

That all sounds like property tax relief, however, what it means in reality (under Illinois Property Taxes) is that the various taxing bodies are asking for MORE money to offset the decrease in taxing values that the exemption changes created.

In other words, if the school district lost 15 million in valuation due to the increase in exemptions in that district, they are gonna need to ask for 15 million MORE in the tax levy to offset that loss. There is just a fixed amount of cash that is needed to keep the teachers paid and the lights on. In this case, you are gonna pay it one way or another. (I hope this makes sense to everyone, it is convoluted stuff.)

I just spent about thirty minutes explaining this very thing to a taxpayer who could not fathom WHY her tax bill was going up so much.

Hang in there.


Laura

[AP]

59. Now, do you pay the tax bill up front, and then get the benefit of the...

...exemptions when you file your taxes?

[davsand]

60. Exemptions are taken off before taxes are figured.

Illinois law has exemptions taken off one third of market value--THEN the taxes are figured.

For instance:

$100,000 house (it would SELL for that)
$33,333 is the accessed value (or one third of the market value)
$5000 is subtracted for an Owner occupied exemption.
$28,333 is the value taxes are figured on.
7.5% taxes (an average tax figure pulled out of my ass based on my County)

$2125.00 would be the tax bill on that house.


Laura

[AP]

61. Got it. Thanks.

[gizmo1979]

62. dean

howard dean pointed this out early last year,I thought it was a good point and should have been furthered by kerry but never was.

[struggle4progress]

67. kick

:kick:

[jwirr]

69. What it really boils down to

is that there are certain cost the three levels of government have shared and when the feds decide they are going to lower their share then either we lose the service or the state must pay more and collect more taxes. The state then does the same thing to the local level. The real problem is that when the feds backed out of the deal they did not lower their tax rate for the average American. Instead they found new costs: Iraq, flights to Mars and tax cuts for the rich. Many states are now setting on the brink of bankruptcy and they are trying to force the counties and cities to take over the cost. The people at the local level are being forced to chose between taxes or services. Now too late they are realizing that the "government spending" they were griping about was really spent on needed services such as firemen, policemen, teachers, hospitals, etc.