NYT: Worried Merchants Throw Discounts at Shoppers

[DeepModem Mom]

Worried Merchants Throw Discounts at Shoppers
By TRACIE ROZHON
Published: December 4, 2004


Got a credit card ready? The markdowns have begun.

America's merchants, shocked by a mediocre post-Thanksgiving weekend, are rushing to mark down their merchandise - way before the majority of holiday shoppers have even seen it.

At the beginning of November, merchants had reduced prices on 5 percent fewer of their goods than last year, according to John D. Morris, a retail analyst with Harris Nesbitt who keeps an annual holiday markdown index. "There's been a complete about-face," he said yesterday, speaking from the Garden State Plaza mall in Paramus, N.J. "By the end of Sunday, markdowns were 5 percent higher than last year - and judging by what I see tonight, that figure is accelerating."

At the start of November, "everything was coming up roses," he added, "and suddenly there's a foul smell in the air."

After the numbers from Thanksgiving weekend were counted, retailers realized that shoppers bought only what was drastically discounted. "They didn't buy the whole store," said Burt Flickinger III, managing director of the Strategic Resource Group in New York. "Now, to stimulate the consumer, the stores must go broader and deeper." In the last few days, repeat shoppers at a wide variety of stores - from Restoration Hardware to J. C. Penney - have been deluged with e-mail messages offering friends-and-family coupons for as much as 40 percent off this weekend. Department stores like Lord & Taylor and Bloomingdale's are already running supersales, their racks dotted with signs proclaiming 20 to 40 percent discounts....


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/04/business/04markdown.html

[Renew Deal]

1. Funny

They are all freaking out, but I don't know if there is anything that can be done. People are smarter now. They have more and better options because of the web. Also, who wants to go shopping on a day called "black friday?" Maybe I am just an optimist but I think it will turn out OK. Then again, I am not counting every penny. I also think this shortfall comes from an underlying pessimism in the country, but I could be wrong about that. It just seems like we are in a funk.

[aneerkoinos]

5. Purchasing power

Why don't the idiot's just check the numbers? Income has been growing much slower than real inflation (never mind the official CPI), increase in health costs alone puts the equation in the red, not to mention higher costs for necessities like energy and food. Job growth in manufactoring sector has been negative, new jobs are mostly poorly paying mcjobs. Employment quality going down.
Consumption has still been growing faster than income meaning more and more private debt (not exactly smart!), but even the debt limit is hitting the ceiling, quite likely already this spending season. So, by the numbers everybody can check, US purchasing power is going rapidly down, except for the richest few per cent who you don't see at Wall-Mart but at boutiques buying fancy European stuff.

So, retail sector is first forced to drop prices, hitting their profit, soon after that comes lay-offs in the service jobs sector, meaning even less purchasing power, less consumption, more unemployment/poor quality jobs, etc. in a vicious circle that spells Depression. Bush/Greenspin has allready used all Keynesian measures at wrong time at wrong targets, nothing left to do with Federal budget allready 6% in the red per year. Just freak out, you got all the reason to...

[makhno]

35. Correctly and concisely stated, thank you

No customers = no profits. This is the end of supply-side economics.

[lonestarnot]

68. Strange when I went to grocery store today...

Seemed like they didn't have stuff...selection low or something..and all of it was so damned expensive...I just got a wierd feeling while I was there. I wanted two things and they didn't have either one. So that limited that spend...LOL

[LosinIt]

85. Shop at Aldi, great prices, good quality, kick-ass chocalate ice cream

What more could a girl ask for?

[lonestarnot]

91. None in AZ

[mhr]

7. Unemployed 54 Months - With What Would You Want Me To Purchase

Wal-Mart junk with?

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Aren't you up to at least 55 or 56 months yet?

Don't feel bad. I'm currently at 37 months myself, and could have sworn it was only two years until I double-checked recently.

Yep -- programmer-analyst.

--p!
Santa only brings misery to bad little Americans who don't win the favor of the Private Enterprise System.

[mhr]

11. Most People Cannot Imagine How Hard Securing Employment

In Bush's America truly is.

I stopped counting resumes out the door last June. Once I reached 2,500 it just seemed pointless to keep to track any longer.

Today will be spent filling out more on line forms and forwarding yet more resumes to probably bogus position descriptions.

[Ms_Mary]

21. I left the professional job market 6 years ago when my son was born

I wasn't worried about being able to re-enter the market. I had a lot of options. I worked part-time for a while and then my father and I opened a business. The fewer people who have jobs, the harder it gets to run the business and the harder I have to try because there aren't any jobs. There are so many of us out there with experience and education who have no good work options. If people had jobs, my business would be doing just fine instead of struggling.

It is hard all the way around right now.

[Dogmudgeon]

28. That's about twice my count

I think I got to about 1500, and only really stopped when my grandmother became sick. Then, I became her full-time caregiver for what would be the last half-year of her life.

The bogus jobs really got to me at one point. A day seldom went by without some member of my family directing me to one non-existent job opening or another. They wondered if I really wanted a job -- and why didn't I just take anything that came along? They didn't understand until their friends started complaining about their own family members in IT who "didn't want to work".

Right now, I'm at a loss for ideas about new career directions. I'm starting to think that no matter what I choose, the market will evaporate within a few years -- that the day is quickly coming where America will only produce a very few tech and high-skilled jobs, hastening the slide into a two-class society.

--p!

[Heddi]

71. I had a friend of mine tell me

that I wasn't "applying myself hard enough" after I mentioned to her that I had sent out nearly 500 resumes in one month AND been turned down to work at Arby's, Wendy's, Subway AND McDonalds.

Of course, at the time (about a year ago), she was in the Air Force with a double-income household and paid childcare, etc. She'd never worked in the private sector before, had no idea that you had to pay for insurance, didn't get 30 days off a year, didn't get the fancy perks that so often come with being career military.

Well, this year, she retired from the USAF, is getting divorced, and just finds it INCREDULOUS that she looked for a job for a WHOLE WEEK and didn't even get a call back. She said "I can't count how many resumes I've sent out in the past week". I suggested that she just give me a ballpark figure---she says "Oh at least ten, if not 15 resumes THIS WEEK". I nearly died laughing. I suggested that she "apply herself harder" and "learn to pull herself up by her bootstraps" (another wonderful peice of advice she gave me when I told her we (hubby and I) may have to go to a food bank for food once))

[GAspnes]

30. same here

lots of interviews, no hires. Competition is fierce and companies are very cautious in hiring, even for contract work.

[jwirr]

66. It isn't only the unemployed who are

unable or afraid to spend. I live with the elderly and they are afraid of bushies effect on the economy. They will be keeping their money as close to their reach as they can. I for one am buying used and have encouraged my children to buy only items that they would buy anyhow - like snowsuits and mittens.

[Renew Deal]

13. OK

I don't want you to purchase anything from Walmart or otherwise. Then again, I could say that you can purchase your walmart junk with whatever you used to purchase an interenet connection, but that's not the point I guess. How is it possible that you are unemployed for 54 months? You haven't worked at all in that time? What field are you in? What happened?

[Hekate]

17. "What happened?" I'd hazard a guess that outsourcing...

...might have played a part.

I don't know what kind of career our unemployed friend is/was in, but it's a very insecure time to be an engineer or computer professional, particularly the closer you get to age 50. First, those jobs are going overseas to cheaper labor markets and not coming back. Our professionals are looking at not only not being able to find comparable work, but having to take a steep cut in pay if and when they do. And for the older worker who looks his/her age, age-discrimination is rampant.

The other thing that's rampant is depression. The longer someone is unemployed, the more their self-worth suffers, and the more inclined they are to blame themselves and to believe the criticisms of people who have never been in their shoes.

Manufacturing jobs that once were the backbone of the blue-collar middle class are also disappearing overseas, and there are whole towns that grew up around particular factories... just dead. People have to move away to find work, usually at lower wages in more expensive parts of the country.

As for the cost of the internet connection, that's an expense as necessary as the electric bill to someone filing resumes and applications online, as so many employers now expect you will do.

There but for fortune go you and I.

Hekate

[NashVegas]

23. In More Ways Than You Think

I went out to one of the major department store chains in the South on Black Friday; I need a dress for a formal dinner coming up, and figured there would be some bargains to be had.

Expecting to see most of the wares in the ladies section at least 25% off, I was disappointed to see less than 30% of what was there was on sale, although the discount on those items was heavier.

Still, not seeing anything that appealed on the discount racks, I ckecked the main floor and tried on a couple of dresses. The zippers were cheap ass, the stitching was nothing spectacular, and the textiles were flimsy. Made in places like China and Malaysia with price tags of up to $180. Take a cheaply made dress of cheap materials, sew a few beads on it and suddenly the retailer thinks they're going to get 3-4 times the dress's worth? And that's taking inflation into account.

If I'm going to pay a price that's approximately 3-4 times the cost of materials + labor, I expect the workmanship of that what the Ladies' Garment Workers union label used to carry.

The better-made stuff was more like $300-$400 and *still* outsourced.

[ooglymoogly]

29. hmmmmm anybody stop to think it might be our boycott

walmart is on top of the downward spiral and on top of the red list. coincidence?.......i think not

[cliss]

49. I was just as surprised this week

to find out that Wal-Mart sales dropped by 0.7%. (bad company). Costco on the other hand, showed profits of 10%. (excellent).

Concidence? I don't think so. I've been calling everybody and urging them to 'shop blue'.

Memo to King George: "You can win the battle, but you might lose the war".

[InvisibleBallots]

70. I'm going to Costco for any bulk purchases

Anytime the Wall Street Journal editorial page attacks you for paying your workers too much money, and the outside investors not enough - I'm shopping with you.

[Straight Shooter]

45. Shop Spiegel online

I don't know what their political affiliation is, and some of their clothes are rather cheesy, but they also have some very nice dresses.

In fact, I think they have a sale going on right now. Order by 12/6, $75 or more, shipping free, enter code L10, according to the "special customer" email they sent to me.

http://www.spiegel.com

Good luck finding the right thing to wear :)

[shrike]

53. I've found good quality at Spiegel

Some of it is a little cheesy, yes, but the basics are well-made and are lasting a long time; basic black pants, lined, for the longer-legged gal like me. I bought two pair, been wearing them for three years and I'll probably wear them for another five.

[NashVegas]

73. I'll Try It - thanks

..

[cliss]

48. Good point.

I think our economy is just hanging on by a thread. After Xmas, if stores are left with enormous inventories, then things might start happening. Layoffs, cutbacks.

Re: job losses. I think that NO ONE's job is safe, no matter what the job. Expect more layoffs under King George's reign.

This year, we will be boycotting as many stores as we can. Wal-Mart is the Evil One. Costco is OK to shop at, but I'm not going to go crazy.

Christmas should not be an orgy of shopping which causes people financial hardships afterwards. That's not what it is about.

Cut back, boycott the bad guys, make your gifts, give from the heart, give of yourself. Forget spending.

[mhr]

47. Hi Bleachers - Fair Questions - I'll Try To Answer

First - an Internet connection is indispensable to job searching today. Almost all resume submissions and job applications are sent via the Internet. This is even more true for high-tech.

Second - I am a refugee from two of the hardest hit industries in the US, telecom and aviation. I live in Dallas, TX where 112,000 telecom workers lost their jobs in 2001, 2002. The graph below highlights how severe the loss of TX jobs has been during the last four years. As I type this there are fewer people employed in Dallas today than at the beginning of 2000!



Third - Almost all of my experience is high-level which means on paper I appear to be a threat to the hiring managers that would interview me. If their jobs are not secure why would they want to hire someone capable of doing their jobs.

Fourth - Age is definitely a factor. Employers are favoring the young over the old. This is hard to quantify but when one learns that someone less experienced lands the job, one has to conclude that the employer was unwilling to pay for more experience.

The way to think about employment over the last four years is very simple. Since Bush assumed the Presidency, the total number of employed people has REMAINED THE SAME. I highlight those last words to help you form a mental picture i.e. total employment has a been a flat line for the last four years. That means one thing very simply, stagnation. The pool of employed workers is not growing or shrinking. Practically speaking, this means that the unemployed will only find work when someone else is fired, dies, or quits. And then that same unemployed worker will be competing against thousands of others in the same boat.

To some up, the situation is very grim.

[Renew Deal]

57. That's tough stuff.

And you are right about your point about stagnation. From what I remember, we would need about 300,000 new jobs a month to cover all of the unemployed and people joining the market. I wish you the best.

[mhr]

58. Thanks For Taking The Time To Consider The Points

It is appreciated.

[PassingFair]

78. What, is there no Halliburton?

Are there no workhouses?

[bunny planet]

81. Ah yes, Dickensian , that about sums it up.

:-(

[Bouncy Ball]

87. Are there no debtor's prisons or orphanages?

[The Zanti Regent]

25. oh, Presidential Prayer Team...

why don't we contact the jackasses at

http://www.presidentialprayerteam.com

and ask them if they are praying for DIVINE INTERVENTION on the economy?

Maybe we ought to ask how many of THEM are unemployed and in the same boat. Ask them what it's like to have Jesus but no food, clothing or shelter??????

[distantearlywarning]

39. We were lucky. My partner only spent 11 months last year looking

for IT work before he finally found something. After the unemployment benefits ran out, we lived on my grad school stipend for several months! We are just lucky that we live in a low cost of living city where that was possible to do.

And as for the people who say that IT workers who don't want to take McJobs are lazy - I say "screw you". Wait till you find out what it's like.

[sandnsea]

44. McJob won't hire you

Because they think you'll leave as soon as a good job comes along. Which one would, except the jobs aren't there. My husband was in that predicament about 20 years ago, except in a different field. 20 years ago, deja vu all over again it seems.

[kurtyboy]

86. Fifty four--

I'm only at twenty six---a lucky duck!

[sherilocks]

2. The tired old rethug economic policies fail again

Send all the American jobs to China and you have no American customers to buy the Chinese made goods. Tax breaks for the wealthy and only the wealthy can afford to buy. Lift the credit card interest rates to 27% and who can afford to use them, assuming anyone has any open to buy left on their credit card.

[ignatius 2]

3. Exactly, and add to that the fact that those of us on a tight budget

have felt the reality of high gas prices caused by our "oil" presidents war. The reality,something many in this country don;t want to see, is that people are broke, they are mortgaged to the hilt,credit-card maxed out and when "real" expenses which are necessities such as gas prices, food prices and nsurance costs go up..expendable spending goes down.

Most of the country are not Bush millionaires and we are tapped out.

[radfringe]

4. "and suddenly there's a foul smell in the air."

At the start of November, "everything was coming up roses," he added, "and suddenly there's a foul smell in the air."

foul smell eminating from the oval orafice....

job growth is pitiful, and those jobs that are "created" are low wage -- so no surprise that people are putting their money in a lockbox

latest spin for poor job growth is that american workers are tooooo productive -- so it's our own fault...

[arikara]

55. Too productive means

working OT with no pay. That's what the company that I formerly worked for expects. I say formerly because I was fired a couple of months ago, they want young people that they can push around and pay less money to. Now the others in my department are working more OT than ever because they expect the same amount of work to be done. Sick greedy bastards.

On edit: This is actually in Canada, its the same everywhere. We HAVE to get rid of the global rule by corporate interests that is hurting us all so badly.

[flordehinojos]

6. if the smell of blood on bush's hands do not speak to this country,

if bush'munitions powdered hands do not horrify this country, if the killings of countless human beings leave this America cold and uncaring to Bush's massacre, let the power of the coins speak and let every right winger remember that Christ threw the merchants away from the temple, that bush is a bloody merchant and that the temple that he is desacrating is the white house and all of the branches of power connected to it.

[The Flaming Red Head]

8. We buy everything after-after Christmas when it's half price

Christmas is a joke. I usually try to work Christmas Day, so I can get time and half or double pay. We eat and hardly exchange gifts.

I buy all my birthday gifts for the coming year during the mark down period when stuff is sometimes as much as 90% off. I love it when they have horrible holiday sales.

My kid would rather wait because he knows he can get better stuff if we wait till after Christmas.

[frustrated_lefty]

10. Ah, the joys of trickle-down economies....(n/t)

[annabanana]

34. yup... "piss on us" economics......................n/t

[VegasWolf]

65. LOL, you have to use the new name, tax breaks for the Rich! n/t

[dbt]

12. I nominate this story for the homepage.

The coalmine canary has just dropped dead. It has ceased to be, in PythonSpeak.

I heard on Marketplace last night that Wal-Mart is buying newspaper ads to offset the dismal November it had. Wal-Mart almost never does newspaper ads, preferring its mailed-out circulars instead. If the World's Largest Retailer (tm) is desperate, what must the rest of the merchant class be feeling?

It's a damn shame that retailers fell for the propaganda that the Media Borg has been feeding this country since bu$h took office. You know, that bullshit about a recovering economy? Their boy has been merrily cooking the numbers all along, and it is just beginning to bite them in the ass. Get used to it, lads.

Oh, and welcome to the hell that the Murkin car companies have been trying to escape for a couple of decades now: once you start giving out "incentives," the buying public expects them to continue. If you don't offer them, somebody else will. If your customers can't get them from you, they'll shop somewhere else.

Happy days, motherfuckers. You've got your Four More Years; enjoy every one of them!

:evilgrin:
dbt

[natrat]

77. Happy days motherfuckers

and god help you if you alienate half the population with your spew

[anarchy1999]

14. Hey "worried merchants", worry away. We are not shopping this

holiday season. We have made it very clear to everyone, Christmas is not about gifts and shopping. It is a wonderful place to be. We've told every close relative that we have, we want for nothing.

We do have a new nephew, we will buy for him and will give to the family, we've just simply asked for them to give us nothing. If they are so inclined then give to our favorite organizations or to give us gifts to book stores. Can we all just say, those of us more than privileged enough, just agree to say - "Hey we really want for nothing"!?

We are blessed, we want for nothing, and we just want to give......

(Clarification on wanting for nothing,..... We could want a house, a big car, we could want for many things....We want none of it.)

[intheozone]

36. I agree, we also are not shopping but we do want

something! WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!

[spinbaby]

15. Americans don't have money for junk anymore

Too busy paying for gas on a reduced income. Everyone I talk to is skipping the fancy widgets and gift items and, if they're shopping at all, giving practical items that people really need. Like socks.

[Missy Vixen]

31. Hey, economic experts, here's some real-life experience

I own a crafting store. I would rather not divulge what and exactly where (I don't need a visit from lurking F*eepers.) I am the woman you seek if you want to make a nice gift for a loved one this holiday season.

My business has been booming the last week and a half. Spinbaby is right -- I am repeatedly hearing that my customers are making items for those they are giving gifts to. I am also noticing that there are those who will drop a significant amount of money in my shop, but they are far outnumbered by those who are watching their budget.

The other merchants in my building are having a rough time attracting shoppers at all. Interestingly enough, at least one of those merchants is a Republican. Here is a snippet of some of her comments over this past week and a half. "People are not shopping because of the election." Then it was, "We don't have a governor yet; people will start shopping when that's decided." Now it's "I can't figure out what's going on and I'm worried." This is the same woman who usually clears $100-500 per day everytime her shop is open. She's been averaging less than $50 per day in sales.

Something's happening, and it's going to get really, really ugly in January.

Julie

[Starlight]

50. "People are not shopping because of the election."

Don't hesitate to let her know that that really IS the reason people aren't shopping at her store. Her voting choices are putting her out of business. How does she like that? :evilgrin:

[Straight Shooter]

46. Amen to buying gifts that people really need.

I bought one friend a new coat. He hasn't had one in ten years. He's buying me a pair of hiking boots because mine are fraying and coming apart.

Even though it's almost an even exchange and we know what it is we're getting for "Christmas," it still gives us the enjoyment of giving a gift to each other.

Oh, BTW, both presents are from an outlet store online. We can't afford what they're charging in our city.

Also, friends are combining funds with other friends to buy gifts for one another. Who needs a lot of clutter, anyway?

[lonestarnot]

72. nope not nut'n if its not a dire necessity it can wait...boots could be

dire if you don't have any and your feet are going to freeze, and a coat when you don't have one is nice in the winter, those are dire necessities, food hey, 3 squares is an American myth, showers every day? nay just a tune up and a shower every other day, wear coats instead of turning on the heat, drive only to protests and sign blogs on the freeway and work and home, that's it...

[pretzel4gore]

16. in bushworld, nickels for ordinary folk are heavy like manhole covers

and $billions for mr pig are tossed around and lost like feathers....even more amazing is the massa media saying the people voted for that!

[harper]

18. These economic experts need to check out prices at the grocery store

Every time I go grocery shopping here lately I'm shocked at the price of food. And I'm not feeding a family. Between food, gas and utilities folks don't have as much disposable income. I'm not spending as much for Christmas and I think lots of folks are in the same boat.

[Ms_Mary]

22. I make my grocery list with coupons and the weekly sales flyer. nt

[durablend]

33. Doesn't help...

Even their "sale" prices are a joke. Many supermarkets are resorting to adding pages of fluff in their circulars to make them look full.

[LosinIt]

88. As I said in a post above, if there is an Aldi store near you check it out

I have been nothing but pleased with the quality of the items we buy there. One example, their cereal is $1.79 a box. It is their brand and is very good. Their meats are frozen so we sometimes hit the regular store for that, and only buy that on sale. They are a European company, only open from 9AM to 7:30PM and not at all on Sunday. They pay their clerks very well, depending on the prevailing wage for the area. In suburban Rochester NY they were hiring clerks for $10 -11/hr if memory serves. These clerks also do the stocking during the day, believe me they earn that money. I can't say enough about this company, very impressed. Look for one in your area at www.aldi.com.

[orpupilofnature57]

19. just becuase its his birthday,dont blame him for,bad manageBent*

[shawn703]

20. Mediocre weekend?

The way I heard the conservative pundits speaking about it the following Monday, I thought the merchants didn't have any merchandise left on the shelves after such a spectacular weekend. What happened?

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Consumers to Corporate America:

"Fuck you!"

[wildeyed]

26. I am saving up in case I need to move to Canada.

Seriously. Our goal is to increase our ready cash fund by double, at least. I have not been buying much extra. What I do buy, I buy at Costco instead of Harris Teeter, my local repub contributing grocery store chain, because they have good bargains AND contribute to democrats.

In addition, we have not been contributing to any of our savings plans, again, increasing ready cash. Also, as many people have noted, health care, gas and groceries are through the roof, so we just have less to spend.

These red state retailers hate me, they think I am immoral democratic scum, but they seem to like my money fine. Fuck 'em, they can't have it anymore.

[distantearlywarning]

38. Us too. We have a wedding to get through this month,

but after that it's going to be "throw everything we can into savings" time. The fiance and I are both quite afraid of the direction this country and our economy are taking. We are pretty frugal in general anyway, so we will probably be able to throw over a thousand a month into savings. We are also planning to disengage our savings from the dollar ASAP, by buying a foreign account, gold or something similar (haven't decided precisely what to do yet). I probably shouldn't say that on a public list, though, in case they decide to make doing such things illegal. Oh well.

We are also coming up with contingency plans in case we have to leave the country. I hope with all my heart that we don't have to do that because I am in the middle of a graduate degree and I would have to throw away the work I did to get into my program as well as the work I have done over the last several years.

(In case anybody is wondering, my wedding is very small and very inexpensive as well. We are doing much of the work ourselves, I got a dress from EBay, etc... We are also trying very hard not to feed the greedy and immoral wedding industry this year.)

[wildeyed]

42. We had the most beautiful wedding at my husband's parent's

farm. We got married, then a local bluegrass band played and we had sandwiches and cake. Perfect. My mother made my dress, which was beautiful. The money we saved, we used to start our own business. I don't understand these monstrously expensive shindigs that people insist on. Oh well, to each his own.

When you get the investing figured out, maybe you can post about it over in economic activism. I have stopped contributing to our existing funds, but haven't started transferring assets yet. I know there are green funds, but are there overseas funds as well? Just haven't had time to focus. But it is on the to-do list.

[quiet.american]

63. Beautiful

What a contrast to a story an acquaintance of mine just told me.

She recently returned from a business trip to India (the objective of which was NOT outsourcing, let me say up front!) and she told me of a conversation in which an executive she met with had mentioned his boss, apparently the founder/president/ceo etc., of the company, had just spent $78 MILLION on his daughter's wedding. It was held in stages all around the world, with him picking up the costs for each elaborate ceremony/reception.

She then talked about the crushing poverty she had witnessed in India -- a naked old man literally lying in the gutter, too weak to even raise himself, children who were excruciatingly thin and barely covered....

I wonder if this same man who spent $78 million on his daughter's wedding would even give a coin to one of these folks....

[jwirr]

74. For many years this country has been fed

the materialistic bull that for an event to be successful it must include a lot of consuming: Christmas, Easter, weddings, baptism, etc. It is time we go back and take a look at the real traditions at the beginning of this country. We celebrated the meanings of holidays and other events - now they are just "keeping up with the Jones' events" with no meaning. I have a feeling that corporate America may regret forcing us to look at where we are at in this world.

[conflictgirl]

59. We are doing the same thing.

It's kind of hard to save much money when our expenses just keep going up, but we're trying.

[KayLaw]

27. Let's see

I have excellent insurance - USAA and Aetna - but both have increased this year as have my property taxes. My husband's yearly raise amounted to $430 which doesn't begin to cover any of those things. My grocery bill has gone from $150 to close to $200, and I don't have to tell you about gasoline prices.

I'm still paying J.C. Penney for what we bought last Christmas. Yes, I have good credit and could just charge another big Christmas but I like to think I've learned from past mistakes. I'm not going to be an idiot and just keep building debt.

[annabanana]

32. Did Merchandisers buy the hype??

These are the guys who're supposed to have the "inside dope", to be on Bush's side in the scam. These are the guys who've been screwing their employees in His name....

I feel SO sorry for them.
:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:
:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[distantearlywarning]

37. Gee, I seem to remember MSM telling me on Black Friday

that sales were jumping by 4-5% this holiday season! They were showing endless pictures of the crowds of holiday shoppers in the malls. It was the story of the day on Black Friday. You don't suppose they were....LYING to me, do you???? :eyes:

I feel sorry for the little guys who will lose their jobs if the shopping doesn't pick up. But I also believe that hitting the corporate whores in the pocketbook is the most effective way to hurt them. God knows they don't care about anything else BUT money. So screw 'em. Let them experience what many of the rest of us have been feeling since 2000. And maybe a little more job loss in this nation will wake up the sheeple.

I for one intend to maintain my financial boycott of Christmas, red corporations, and my society in general as long as I can. Obviously I still have to get along somehow, but I am making a sincere effort not to buy from bad places, to minimize my purchasing of frivolous consumer goods, and we are NOT doing the Christmas present thing this year (and if we did, we would probably do as others have suggested and buy art or whatnot from locals).

[genieroze]

43. Re: Gee, I seem to remember MSM telling me on Black Friday

that sales were jumping by 4-5% this holiday season! They were showing endless pictures of the crowds of holiday shoppers in the malls. It was the story of the day on Black Friday. You don't suppose they were....LYING to me, do you????

Well I drove past the Mall on Friday and there was plenty of parking. As far as the endless pics are concerned, I bet they were from a couple years ago, that or Photoshopped.

[peekaloo]

54. I remember that also. Pics of busy stores and cash registers bulging

with bills while ringing up sales totaling hundreds of dollars.

The ol' corporate mindf*ck just ain't what it used to be.

[VegasWolf]

64. I heard that the "official" story is that friday was great but sat and

sun fell off from even last year. So the weekend in total
was par for a bush economy = like last year.

[Starlight]

79. Black Friday sales were mostly "loss leaders"

In case you're not familiar with that term:

From Wikipedia:

In marketing, a loss leader is an item that is sold below cost to draw customers into a store where they are likely to buy other goods.

If people don't also buy a lot of regular priced merchandise, the stores actually lose money on these sales. I've heard that is exactly what happened on Black Friday this year.

Example: My BF's had 3 $10 off Macy's Black Friday coupons that he cut out of the newspaper. One of his purchases was "Gold Toe" brand socks:

regular price of socks: 3 pairs/$15
on sale at 25% off -3.75
$10 off coupon -$10
price BF paid: 3 pairs/$1.25

He had 2 more of these coupons that he used to buy dress shirts for work from the "final clearance" rack. He paid just a few dollars for each shirt. The prices he paid were far less than Macy's cost for the items.

[reprobate]

40. Henry Ford was first to realize the basis of the economic cycle:

When somone told him that he was paying his workers too much and he could get away with paying far less, he is quoted as saying:

"Sure I could, but then who could afford to buy my cars."

There will come a time soon when all the capitalist greed will come back to haunt them, and tear a big chunk out of their butt.

[genieroze]

41. At the start of November, "everything was coming up roses," he added, "and

suddenly there's a foul smell in the air." It's called Rigged sElection syndrome. People in their hearts know Kerry won. They also know this country is going to hell in a hand basket and want to have money to survive the declining dollar. Faux unemployment rates, do nothing because people know when they are not working. Tell those people go got our outsourced jobs to buy the goods. Oh wait, they can't. Why? Because they are only making a fraction of what they used to pay US workers and they can't afford the overpriced fruits of their labor. Well guess what Corporate Whores, neither can we. This crap is finally starting to bite them in their corporate asses. I hope they find some tall buildings to jump off of when the economy crashes..

[VegasWolf]

82. Anybody who thought things were wonderful early Nov is obvioulsy

a Repuke.

[pretzel4gore]

51. things may be worse then anyone imagines

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/112304_economic_armageddon.shtml

this is mike ruppert's 'from the wilderness' rather then boston herald.....we should try to patronise our friends when possible. How such a person could say such a thing and the bushmedia just ignore it says that the enemy control the mediation between real events and made up news....
they need to be put down in the tens of thousands

[tanyev]

52. Hubby and I just got back from the mall.

I was looking for something specific for my brother, which I didn't find, but I was looking for anything I might want because mr. tanyev is starting to sound a little desperate asking me what I want for Cmas and my birthday. Truth is, I just don't want any stuff. I want George Bush out of the White House. I want my country back. Nothing else even matters right now.

[grasswire]

56. probably the best gift you could...

...give to a loved one is a donation to the ACLU.

Seriously.

[wildeyed]

61. I am doing that this year, too.

What would you rather have, your civil liberties or xmas scented sachets and candles?

[Starlight]

80. My gift to my coworkers:

$100 to ACLU
$25 to Amnesty International
$25 to Greenpeace

And I applied for a corporate match from my employer for all 3 donations. I feel very good about this. :)

[kohodog]

60. Good for them.

I'm not getting sucked in this year. We're not going the traditional route, but doing things like backrubs, leading hikes to special places, cooking a special dinner, desert, etc. No Wallmart (don't go there anyway), no big box stores, etc.

[Buns_of_Fire]

62. "Holiday Markdown Index"???

Uh-uh. Try "Holiday MELTDOWN Index."

[lonestarnot]

67. Nut'n Nut'n Nut'n - Christmas Cheer ain't here this year...not yet anyway.

I will not buy nut'n... only survival mode....nut'n nut'n nut'n sept paint and sidewalk chalk, bright sticks and printer paper and ink and I'm already stocked up on that so nut'n, aint buy'n nut'n and that ain't no bushit!

[demgrrrll]

69. We decided we will make soap, candles and potpourri for people we

know. Beeswax candles are pretty easy to make. Have not bought one thing for Christmas as of yet. Shopped at the farmers market today.
We may break down and buy one thing ( a joint gift) for ourselves at the end of the holidays if things get cheap enough or we may wait.

[jwirr]

75. Don't Forget to Buy

a little something at the grocery store for the local food shelf - you would be surprised how good it can make you feel. Also volunteer if you have time.

[hoi polloi]

76. I have just read all the replies in this thread

And it is even more obvious to me that this country is in egregious decline.
Many are unemployed. Merchants are sorted based on political leanings. The country is polarized. The government gives to the rich. Good jobs are being exported. Corporations are rapacious.
People are taking their money out of dollars and investing in euros, or gold. Stores are often not well stocked because merchants can't afford product.
The country is miserably failing.
I was saddened before, but even more so after reading all of the poignant stories on this thread.
There are good suggestions on what to do. But, something is missing and partially what it is is powerful leaders that can help us rebuild this country.
I keep having this feeling that it's lost already. Hope not though.

[VegasWolf]

83. I don't know if its a lost hope, we all hope not, but in the meantime

I'm stashing my money in euro's to prevent loss of it.
I know this is not what bush wants me to do, but it is what
he and his friends are doing.

[ribrepin]

84. I never lose an opportunity

To remark about how expensive things are. I move the conservation around to the fact that I just don't believe the inflation index. Then I remark that the government must be lying. This works especially well with soft Bush voters. I never mention Bush by name, but everyone can see that their money isn't stretching as far.

I've found this to be effective because if you say anything negative about their boy they stop listening. Everyone realizes that they just don't have as much money to spend. Plant the seeds of doubts. I resigned myself to this taking years. I even refer to Democrats as the opposition rather than Democrats.

I suppose I'll get flamed, but ordinary folks seem to at least listen if I take this tack.

[Bouncy Ball]

89. They can discount it all they fucking want.

I'm still no longer much of a consumer. Take THAT corporate zombies!

Instead, I put a nice chunk in savings in November and will do it again in December. And again in January and Feb and March and April and so on......it's about time I started building that up anyway.

SLAP!

We're done with Christmas shopping--I only have two people to shop for and I got a few things from Costco and I made the rest (really nice stuff).

Pppppppppttttttthhhhhh on materialism and the Cult of Consumerism. Not me. Not anymore.

I was even in Target today and got tempted by some things and ended up putting everything back except the one food item I needed and went in for.

They HATE it when you do that!

[durablend]

90. Uh oh, better get prepared!

MSM says that a middle class pinch may be brewing.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BA363EE5D-192F-4045-9018-9733D720D069%7D&siteid=google&dist=google&dist=">http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BA363EE5D-192F-4045-9018-9733D720D069%7D&siteid=google&dist=google&dist=

Naaaaah... :eyes:

[Deja Q]

92. The media is big-biz. And here they are, laughing in our faces.

We've known this shit for 20-some years, even with the 90s boom - which was falsely inflated by IT innovations, which in turn is being used against the working class.