Abu Ghraib Guards Were Scapegoats, U.S. Lawyers Say

[TacticalPeek]

Abu Ghraib Guards Were Scapegoats, U.S. Lawyers Say

Sat Dec 4, 2004 05:01 PM ET

By Jon Herskovitz

FORT HOOD, Texas (Reuters) - Two military guards implicated in the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal in Iraq were good soldiers caught in a muddled chain of command at a chaotic prison, their lawyers said at the start of pretrial hearings on Saturday.

Lawyers for Sgt. Javal Davis and Spec. Sabrina Harman said there was a breakdown of leadership and that their clients were scapegoats for the failures of a system that reached through the highest levels of the military bureaucracy and the Bush administration.

That same system also allowed for the abuse of prisoners in order to extract intelligence information, they said.

more
http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6995689

[hippiechick]

1. Y'think ?

:freak:

Let's hope this, in combination with the 'Stars and Stripes' article this week that's highly critical of Rummy, is just the beginning of the grunts starting to turn on their CIC and his cabal.


:hippie:

[whistle]

2. Trained and privileged scapegoats....

...weren't these defendants perfectly willing to carry out the orders and the torture in exchange for the pleasure and protection from harms way of fighting out in the field in Iraq? These individuals are not innocent by-standers here. They need to pay for their crimes and they also need to come clean about the involvement of their superiors and private outside contractors. This must go right up the chain of command to the very top.

[Flagg]

3. They may be scapegoats but they sure seem to have enjoyed themselves.

[matt819]

4. Of course they were

Which doesn't excuse them commiting war crimes.

The larger problem is that no one up the chain of command is willing to blow the whistle. The officers and the administration have plausible deniability, and so the story ends, at least for the time being, with these scapegoats, who should be punished to the max in any case.

[0007]

8. No whistle blowers are needed !

Who gave the order is all that's needed

[msgadget]

5. No kiddin'

Edited to add this clip from http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/11/20/d41120150398.htm

The pictures made it easy to pick the scapegoats. The gov't feels it's too 'dangerous' to litigate against a multinational lest they not want to do business where they're needed. I suspect only soldiers will pay for this. Makes you wonder who had the bright idea to take the snaps.


> The battle has even broken out in Iraq where two corporations, CACI International of Arlington, Virginia and Titan Corporation of San Diego, California, are the targets of a class action complaint filed by the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights on behalf of torture victims in Iraq. The suit charges that the two companies sent to Iraq untrained prisoner interrogators who were involved in torture and abuse. "The interrogation techniques violated the most basics principals of international law and the US courts have been clear that plaintiffs may sue in US court," said Jennie Green, a lawyer for the Center for Constitutional Rights. "The courts must act to prevent such torture from continuing. We strongly believe that the credibility of US claims to abide by the rule of law is at stake." Understandably, the US government and business groups strongly oppose this type of litigation, arguing that if foreign companies are forced to be human rights monitors, they may decide not to establish operations in certain developing counties, thus depriving them of needed investment. "Large jury awards will send a message that if you are going to do business in a country where the government is violating human-rights or labour standards, you may be sued," warns J. Daniel O'Flaherty, a vice-president at the Washington, DC-based National Foreign Trade Council, which represents US exporters. In developing a counter strategy, business groups held a closed-door strategy session in Washington on November 18, 2002, to consider everything from possible legislation to filing a slew of amicus curiae briefs on behalf of defendants in cases. Meanwhile, some companies have lobbied the Justice Department to intervene. In the summer of 2003, the US State Department warned a judge that a case against ExxonMobil Corporation in Indonesia "could potentially disrupt" the fight against terrorism and should be dropped.<

[acmavm]

6. I don't know what everyone's idea of personal responsibility is, but I

truly believe that these guys and their commanders owed it to the troops they served with, that served under them, and to the country to refuse any orders to behave in this unhumane, obscene, barbaric manner. Just exactly like that soldier did who refused to let his men be cannon fodder while delivering tainted fuel.

There is a line drawn in the sand, and it is NOT a fine line, between decency and integrity and acting like uncivilized pigs (begging the pardon of all porcine creatures everywhere). It's very obvious where these people fit in.

By the same token, this pattern of behavior was known about clear up the chain of command. These sham hearings are just so the people really responsible, bush* (don't tell me he didn't know), Rumsfuck, cheney, wolf et al, can pretend to themselves that they are doing the 'right' thing, punishing the few bad guys. Well, I personally believe that there will be a hearing of a different sort that we will all have to face someday (please, don't bother me with you disagreements with this statement, I'm not interested). And for those that were really responsible, there will be a big day of reckoning.

[Algorem]

7. Dennis Kucinich's opponent in his district was an Army interrogator in Af-

ghanistan and Kucinich only beat him 58% to whatever in heavily Dem district.Maybe these ones have a future as Repubican politicians too.

[lovuian]

9. No Dah!!! And the World sees it that way too

Hello!!!

[Disturbed]

10. Justice? Acountabilty?

When a person that has admitted to committing War Crimes on Anmerikan TV and nothing is done about it what does anyone expect?


Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also proscecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

=========================
Q: Senator Jack Reed (Dem, RI): "If you were shown
a video of a United States Marine or an American
citizen in control of a foreign power, in a cell block,
naked with a bag over their head, squatting with their
arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that
as a good interrogation technique or a violation of
the Geneva Convention?"

A: Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff: "I would describe it as a violation."

A: Paul D. Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense: "What
you've described to me sounds to me like a violation of the
Geneva Convention."

Thursday, May 13, 2004, Senate Armed Services Committee hearings

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-20...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-2004May13.htm


Does the US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

[bobthedrummer]

11. Wikipedia: Abu Ghraib "prisoner abuse" link. Don't forget it's ok to

torture US captives and detainees now, the Geneva Conventions are "quaint".
:nuke::mad::argh:
Caution: contains morbid photos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse