Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Guardian: Harvest of death

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:29 PM
Original message
The Guardian: Harvest of death
The grim routine of repeated violence may have a numbing effect when viewed from afar, but that is not so for those on the receiving end. Yesterday's news from Iraq was bad enough to make headlines on an otherwise quiet Sunday, but it also sharpens increasingly troubling questions about how the country's mayhem will end. Seventeen Iraqi civilians working for the US army were killed near Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit while a National Guard commander and his bodyguards died in separate attacks that took the toll of three days of carnage to well over 70. Leaving aside the human tragedies these figures represent - most of which will never be known to the wider world - the grim tally attests to an insurgency that is sophisticated, callous, deliberate in its choice of targets, and highly effective. Last Friday saw one of the most audacious incidents yet, when several carloads of gunmen attacked a heavily fortified Baghdad police station, killing 11 officers, freeing prisoners and seizing weapons, a variant on car-bomb attacks against police recruiting offices. The result is to cast grave doubt over whether the Iraqi security forces will be capable of managing without the Americans, as well as over the timing and value of national elections that are now less than six weeks away. Bullets, bombs and ballots are a volatile mixture.

These questions need asking urgently because the official position, in Washington, London and Baghdad - where the interim government is nominally in charge - is that the violence is containable and the January 30 polls are on track. President George Bush has insisted that there should be no postponement - hardly surprising in that the timetable is closely linked to his own exit strategy. Ditto Tony Blair, who has at least managed to keep his promise that the Black Watch will be home by Christmas after their service in the "triangle of death". The interim Iraqi president, Ghazi al-Yawar, who has previously called for a delay, sounded determined in Washington yesterday, arguing that the elections should go ahead. It is hard to disagree with his view that "the main objective of the people committing these atrocities is to stop us from having our first chance to taste the harvest of liberating Iraq". But it is hard too to square his confidence with the bloody evidence on the ground. The latest attacks have taken place in Sunni areas around Baghdad in the wake of the supposedly successful US offensive in Falluja. Other attacks were recorded as far afield as Mosul in the north and on the distant Iraqi-Jordanian border. The clear view of Lakhdar Brahimi, the UN special envoy, is that it will not be possible to hold the polls "if the circumstances stay as they are".

~snip~

It is hardly surprising that Washington is sounding unusually fractious about the way ahead. General John Abizaid, the head of US central command, admitted over the weekend that Iraqi forces did not have the training or experience to do their job without US reinforcements - thus the extra 12,000 men now on their way to join the 138,000 already there, to maintain pressure on the insurgents and to help boost security for election day. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that they are heading straight for a Middle Eastern quagmire.

more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1367210,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know anyone here who ever had a problem understanding that
we were headed for a middle eastern QUAGMIRE.

Why are these people so slow on the uptake? How did they ever get to where they are today unless it's dumb luck or sheer brutality, maybe a combination of the two. Because they got rid of all the people who knew anything about the Middle East, about the military, and the realities of war.

That left us with the bloody fingered greedy bastards who were absolutely clueless. Both here and in Britain.

<snip>
General John Abizaid, the head of US central command, admitted over the weekend that Iraqi forces did not have the training or experience to do their job without US reinforcements - thus the extra 12,000 men now on their way to join the 138,000 already there, to maintain pressure on the insurgents and to help boost security for election day. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that they are heading straight for a Middle Eastern quagmire.
<snip>

Go figure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Absolutely true.
Notice the wording here, "It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that they are heading straight for a Middle East quagmire."

I look at sentences like that, and I just blink my eyes. I just cannot understand what they must be thinking. As if they don't realize the train wreck is BEHIND them.

Same thing with statements like this, "they (the Americans) are jeopardizing the trust the Iraqis have". What trust? They've got to be kidding. It's almost as they are warning the Bush administration that "they'd better watch their step, or things might get bad".

1) Who do they think they are kidding? Since when does the Bush administration listen to anyone?

2) This war will not descend into Dante's Inferno. It's already there.

There's nothing they can do about this situation. It's in the past tense, dudes. Think PAST.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Well, when one is blinded by ideology and groupthink...
...(you fill in the rest). These people in the BushCo cabal should die horrid deaths in Hell.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IllegalCombatant Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's all good
according to the neoCONs, shoot they THRIVE off of death and destruction , rebuilding contracts and trade.

why should they change a thing? according to our own 'leaders' - DLC :puke: - thats why they're winning.

for 'PNAC' or even 'Blueprint: Ideas for a New Century' to succeed we must be RUTHLESS in maintaining OUR-WAY-OF-LIFE no matter what the expense.

we are embarking on a NEW-WORLD-ORDER no-one ever said we wouldn't get our hair mussed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. when I posted on another message board
that the U.S. military had used napalm during advance bombing in Fallujah, one of the neocons responded by saying that I was nuts and that nobody was listening to me. When another member confirmed what I posted with another article, the thread got really quiet. The neocons there are usually quick to jump all over my lefty posts, but this one shut them up. How can anyone continue to support such actions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah napalm, illegal and monstrous. Gasoline that STICKS to skin,
turning anyone unfortunate enough to be covered with it into a human fireball. You die burning alive, unable to extinguish the flames no matter what you do. Napalm doesn't discriminate. It gets the good guys and the bad guys. Everything burns. Can you think of a more despicable weapon to use? That's why the sane world has banned its use. All except us, that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. yes, they thrive on death and destruction
it runs in the bloodlines :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ablbodyed Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm gonna get flamed, but>>>>
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 09:47 PM by ablbodyed
they WANT utter chaos in Iraq. It's in isreal's interest that the Arabs be as divided as possible. We are doing israel's bidding. Until we free ourselves from the choke-chain of israeli control, AMERICANS will die for another country. When you add in the lunatic xtian end-time garbage, you have a mix made in hell. Flame me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. No flames, but keep in mind "they"
are a small percentage of the population of Israel. As in the US, democracy does not prevent the will of the minority from directing military and intelligence activities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I won't flame you. The PNAC has shamelessly flaunted their true
allegiance, and it ain't to the good ol' US of A. The Likud party is the Israeli PNAC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blue agave Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Realy ? If we are just now heading for a quagmire ...
where have we been for the last year ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. Canadian PM Paul Martin says Canada is prepared to send election monitors
Who the hell would be crazy enough to be willing to go? They would be bigger targets than American soldiers. Martin has lost his mind. The dead will be on his conscience.

"Canada ready to help with Iraqi elections: Martin
Last Updated Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:27:13 EST
OTTAWA - Canada will help set up and work on elections in Iraq if it's asked, Prime Minister Paul Martin told the U.S. cable news station CNN on Sunday.
Paul Martin on CNN
"We do have the expertise and we're prepared to offer it," he said. Canada could turn around very quickly if asked to help with setting up the systems needed to run an election, he said."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC