Michael Moore Urges Democrats to Embrace Hollywood

[rodeodance]

"What 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and Bruce Springsteen (news) and MoveOn and all the other people that were working during this election, what we did was we prevented a Bush landslide," Moore said. "We're all going to continue to do this in the near future. No one's giving up." ......


Michael Moore Urges Democrats to Embrace Hollywood

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=696&e=1&u=/nm/20041207/en_nm/people_moore_dc

47 minutes ago


By Steve Gorman

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. (Reuters) - "Fahrenheit 9/11" director Michael Moore on Monday rejected the idea that Hollywood had hurt John Kerry (news - web sites)'s chances of winning the White House, insisting that he and other entertainers helped spare Democrats an even bigger defeat.



"For the last month, we've had to listen to a lot of conservative pundits talk about how Democrats need to run away from Hollywood," Moore said. "It's actually the opposite. Democrats need to embrace Hollywood because this is where they need to come to learn how to tell a story."


In the final analysis, Moore said, Democratic presidential nominee Kerry was "not the best candidate." President Bush (news - web sites) "had a more compelling story to tell and the Democrats didn't, and that has to change." .....

[Dickie Flatt]

1. Shorter Moore: "Check it out, I just read Lakoff's book"

[JohnOneillsMemory]

24. Bingo. He knows that messages are crafted very very deliberately.

Making a film requires controlling every single thing you see and hear to affect the audience in the intended way.

The fascist>CIA>Repub>neo-cons have very carefully utilized propaganda psy-ops messaging on the American public and it has worked.

They get away with murder because they 'tell a better story.' That is, they have a better alibi than the Dems.

That's why the Repubs have been dominating the Dems, albeit with the help of election fraud and most of the media.

It's called Perception Management and Persuasion Technology.

Hitting those psychological buttons the right way is like cracking a safe.

The reward is power.

[goclark]

2. I am surprised

I love MM but I find that everything that comes out of the mouth of Bush is a "story"/ a LIE!

[sonicx]

5. MM means that republicans are good liars and storytellers

he doesn't mean they are right.

[Eric J in MN]

3. "Going Upriver" told a good story.

It was just released on dvd too late.

If "Going Upriver" had been released on dvd 3 months before the election instead of 2 weeks before the election, maybe Kerry would have won.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. Goinjg Upriver should have been in theaters nationwide before the election

it was an EXCELLENT film!...i bought it and played it at many get togethers in my community...15 repuke converts after veiwing :7

[Eric J in MN]

4. I'm glad to see Michael Moore answering the

jerks who say "The Democratic Party is the Michael Moore Party and that's why it lost."

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. We should make sure Going Upriver gets alot of playtime on Cable and

elsewhere so people can see just how unprincipled these guys were in their attacks on JK.... as for supporting Hollywood... I support some of the lesser known actors... but I feel they worth supporting...

[Rose Siding]

6. Good for Michael

He'd have gotten old waiting for any elected Dem to defend him or any of the libs in the public eye, despite their dependable support.

edit- I should note that *some* dems have been kind and receptive- but I haven't heard them since the election.

[candy]

7. A lot of older Democrats were turned off by Moore and Hollywood---

Sorry,but it's true,and the older ones get out and vote.

[sonicx]

8. yes, but MM was for nader in 2000

and Gore still 'lost.'

[genius]

9. The older Democrats I know were turned onto voting by Michael

The Republicans don't want us to realize that because they want us to lose the next election.

[ooglymoogly]

39. we and this country owe a great debt to micheal

the fkng dlc is the party of the zel millers and ed koch's and joe lieberman's claiming to be dems. the dlc is a trojan horse being inserted into our party to destroy it thinking most will not know the diff between the dlc and the dnc. now the corperate press can call on leaders of the dems, the dlc to prove their point that slave labor, deficit spending republicans are really the best choice for murka.

[pretzel4gore]

12. fukk em

silly old geezers with their prunes spewing and their smelly yellowy beards blowing in the wind.....fukkem, let them vote for a dunce.

[candy]

17. Do you have a problem with old folks? I'm one of them and I--

find your comments offensive.

You must be very young or very immature.

[pretzel4gore]

46. i'm an old geezer too!

i just think that anyone who supports bush, regardless of the reason, is foolish....and there's no fool like a(?)
sorry to offend you candy; i've been putting up with the so called 'republican juggernaut' since that dipstick reagan was wheelchaired into the white house (there was a picture published in time magazine shortly after reagan's election, showing him w/out wig or makeup...he looked like granny clampette) and things have just gotten relentlessly worse, (even clinton never had the power to shut down richard scaife/grover norquist etc!) until a cretin like junior bush playacts like he's president!.....and tr/billions of dollars disappear in maniac wars and media constantly and openly lies (there was a congressman on majority report last eve and they asked him about foxnews' endless lies...the congressman said it was 'frustrating')...any democrat who was 'turned off' by mike moore cannot have been paying att'n to what the repukelicans have been doing last 30 years....

[Stinky The Clown]

28. watch yerself

I'm an old guy

[Pastiche423]

23. It must be just where you live

I saw F9/11 twice in my neck of the woods and the majority of those who watched it w/me were over 50.

[Individualist]

41. Hear, hear!

I'm 61, and Michael is tops in my opinion. Friends who went with me (twice) to see F911 were also in their 60's.

[leftynyc]

37. I saw F911 the day it came out

and the audience was 90%+ over the age of 65 - they were the first ones to their feet cheering at the end.

[JetCityLiberal]

44. Disagree

The elderly voters I know loved F/911. The bulk of the audience when my wife and I went to see the film was 'older'. They clapped and cheered as loud as we did or louder.

F/911 was instrumental in changing the minds of several 'older' right wingers in my family about how truly corrupt b*sh and his ilk are.

JetCityLiberal

[UVASAM1]

48. older dems

Agreed. Those 2 groups are kryptonite to most rural voters.

[robbedvoter]

11. Love ya MIke, but "Bush landslide?" Watcha talking about, Mike?

[pretzel4gore]

13. it's called pandering....

haha

[robbedvoter]

33. Nope. it's not. MM has done a lot for us - helped with THE VICTORY

the one that was stolen. I wish he knew we were and still are the majority instead of getting the Vichy Democrats memo. Come back to the light, Mike - we need you!

[pretzel4gore]

42. i wasn't criticising mike, whom i admire and trust....

but he wouldn't go on leno with any idea but to con the Man....lol, and give them what they want ...and yes kerry did win, so you can see, exploiting the bushevik's desire for us to accept bush's win by acting like we do lowers their guard....

[The Flaming Red Head]

45. Mike should embrace voters rights

He's too Hollywood, as much as I like most of what he's said, this is one of the reasons he's not on board anymore. Fuck a 'wise' career move, we want justice for voters in America.

[sandnsea]

14. Gee Mikey

Did you forget the only story you wanted to tell was Bush is evil and connected to 9/11? A story that apple pie America wasn't going to eat in a million years?

Michael Moore is great, but everybody needs to take a look in the mirror, not just the DNC.

[sonicx]

15. Moore never tried to appeal to the 'apple pie' crowd

i saw him mostly wanting to excite liberals.

[sandnsea]

20. So, what's his beef?

Now he wants to say Democrats didn't tell a story? Every liberal out there said the story was how bad Bush is and that's the story the 527's told. Don't come back and whine now.

[ConsAreLiars]

25. Chimpy's story was a lie

Kerry's story was that the lie was partly true -- that Iraq was a war that deserved to be fought and won, even though it could have been avoided or done better.

It didn't sell. Kerry 2004 should have been the Kerry of the Winter Soldier or BCCI investigations, but he went with the DLC corporatist wing and lost.

[girl gone mad]

35. correct. n/t

[sandnsea]

38. Weird

Kerry said that we can't let Iraq dissolve into chaos or a terrorist state, since we went in and ripped the place apart. It's funny, EVERY candidate said that. Elections, security, reconstruction; Nader, Kucinch, Dean, they ALL said it. Somehow, when Kerry said it, he was a warmonger. :eyes:

[bvar22]

50. You are "torturing" the facts.

Kerry's position on Iraq was waaaaaayyy different from DK, Dean, Sharpton, Nader, Braun, Graham, et al. He earned the "HAWK" label with his proposals to increase the size and budget of the military.

Too late to change history. :eyes:

[The Flaming Red Head]

43. Blue collar workers are the apple pie crowd

who else is going to eat them.

[Eric J in MN]

18. "Farenheit 9/11" doesn't say Bush planned the 9/11 attacks (NT)

NT

[sandnsea]

19. I didn't say that

I said "connected to". Big difference. And Moore implied that in the Afghanistan portion of the film, as well as the bin Laden flights and Saudi connections.

[bvar22]

51. Which have ALL been disproven....

...when????
These connections are absolutely true and documented.

Drinking any KoolAid lately?

[robbedvoter]

34. Uh, dear, did apple pie cared about the war? Me thinks they did

as their apple seeds were getting smashed there and the pie dough spent there. It was part of the story MM told. Now, return to Vicy and bend.

[InvisibleBallots]

16. Is Michael Moore on drugs?

He wants me to "embrace Hollywood to learn how to tell a story"? Why not tell us to embrace the PR industry to learn how to lie?

Michael, all the hobnobbing with the models is getting to your head. Make another movie and stop kowtowing to the Hollywood corporations.

[Maat]

21. I love Michael Moore!

I'm a big fan. He certainly motivated me to campaign harder. I saw him speak, have read his books, and seen his movies. There is no way on Earth that he cost John Kerry votes, as far as I'm concerned. Centrist Democrats could ignore him. He carried the progressive message well. And 'undecideds' who were turned off by him weren't going to vote for Kerry anyway.

And he's right ... Hollywood is not only our 2nd biggest export (our media, film industry), but it does know how to frame things ... as well as any Rovian consultant. The out-of-touch DNC could learn a thing or two about how to dramatically make a point/image so that it sticks inside the average Americans head - look at Arnie.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Agreed

MM is the best.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

26. yeah, I think he's on Aspirin

hearing from idiots who call the truth "lies"


the "corporations" we need to worry about have nothing to do with Hollywood.
The truth is not to be feared unless it is hidden.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Where Moore says this:

"For the last month, we've had to listen to a lot of conservative pundits talk about how Democrats need to run away from Hollywood," Moore said. "It's actually the opposite. Democrats need to embrace Hollywood because this is where they need to come to learn how to tell a story."

He's right on the money. But in our case, there's no need to lie. We actually have a good story to tell and the truth is on our side. It is about **how** the story's told, not the story itself. That's the hard part for us. Getting heads to turn. Once the heads turn, **then** you tell them the "rest of the story" and in our case it is 100% factual.

Memes and ubermemes.

Read Lakoff. It is an easy read and gets right to heart of this.

And yeah, Hollywood *can* help ... not as our spokesperson (thanks Mike, thanks Barbara, thanks to all the stars who helped) but as our coach.

The message and the messenger must be ours.

[Peace Patriot]

30. I'm waiting, Michael!

Ext. Night. Boston Harbor.

An unmarked MOVING VAN backs up to within a few feet of the edge of a Pier. The black water of the harbor sparkles with starlight and lights from the city. The MOVING VAN DRIVER and TWO PASSENGERS, dressed as "Red Indians" (painted faces, feathers) get out of the truck, and--looking around surreptiously and finding that they are unobserved--open the back of the truck, to reveal: SEVERAL OTHER REBELS, dressed as "Red Indians," who silently lower the loading ramp, and walk or jump down, revealing the MOVING VAN'S cargo: A huge stack of DIEBOLD ELECTRONIC CENTRAL VOTE TABULATION MACHINES.

MUSIC RISING: "The Star-Spangled Banner."

The REBELS quietly, solemnly form a "fire bucket" line from the truck to the edge of the Pier, and begin dumping the DIEBOLD ELECTRONIC CENTRAL VOTE TABULATION MACHINES, one by one, into Boston Harbor.

SOUND: Splash! Splash! Splash!

MUSIC RISING: ("...the land of the free, the home of the brave...")

CUT TO: Same scene, a short time later. Quiet.

MS: The back of the MOVING VAN is now empty. The REBELS jump inside and pull up the loading ramp. The MOVING VAN DRIVER gives a thumb up to the REBELS in the back, and closes the rear van doors, as SEVERAL OF THEM give him the peace sign and happy grins.

Tracking: The MOVING VAN DRIVER and the TWO FRONT SEAT PASSENGERS enter the front of the truck and shut the doors. The MOVING VAN DRIVER starts the truck.

INT. TRUCK CABIN (S.S.)

FRONT SEAT PASSENGER #1: Next load!

The MOVING VAN DRIVER nods his head in a determined way, and begins driving the truck away from the Pier.

VOICES of REBELS IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK: (Indian war dance whooping!)

THE TWO FRONT SEAT PASSENGERS take up the Indian war dance whooping, and whoop in unison with those in the back--wild, rebellious.

LS: THE MOVING VAN drives away from the Pier.

FADING SOUND: The Indian war whooping.

QUIET RISING SOUND: The end of the "Star-Spangled Banner."

AERIAL SHOT: THE MOVING VAN heading away from the Pier down an empty street....into the night.

THE END.

(Hey, Michael! It's all yours. I hereby relinquish all rights forever. Go for it! WAKE UP! Read DU! GET MAD AGAIN! And MAKE THIS MOVIE!)

[neweurope]

32. Great idea :) It's important to evoke feelings, facts are too much

- or too boring or too complicated - for most people.

The holocaust was never discussed broadly in Germany - people just didn't want to think about it. Steven Spielberg's movie changed that. People for the first time could really identify with the victims.

Don't shoot M. Moore. He's not always right and it is only human to feel a little God-like when one is so prominent. But he transports his messages by a combination of facts and entertainment, and I think we all (we on the other side of the Atlantic, too) need that now. We should look at all and every possibility of educating and informing those blind folks whose ignorance endangers us all.

More has done you a lot of favors already. His movies are a big success over here, and people got to know a lot about the ugly face of the US that they would otherwise never have known because the "masses" as a rule are uninformed and want to be uninformed so there's no need to take action.

We have hardly any newspapers and TV-channels left. Demonstrations are not enough (and who demonstrates anyway?). We shall need new ideas and a lot of fantasy and imagination in the months ahead.

[proudbluestater]

31. I'm surprised he left out...

"For the last month, we've had to listen to a lot of conservative pundits talk about how Democrats need to run away from Hollywood," Moore said."


AL FROM and the freaking DLC for calling him anti-American. Maybe that's next week's story?

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Hollywood has done more for the IDEA of democracy,than Washington,any day

[hollowdweller]

47. I think he and Moveon.org need to work together for some issue ads to

Start framing the debate for 2008

[autorank]

49. I embrace the liberal Democratic agenda & massive voter registration

Screw Hollywood or anyone else who is supposed to lead us and tell us how to think. If Hollywood embraces our cause, they can give until it hurts (like all of us), work, and stop behaving in ways that put off many Americans.

I'm tired of 'icons' and 'leaders.' How about public servants, employed by the people to do the peoples work? Thats what I want.

CORPORATE AMERICA controls the media and we get MANUFACTURED NEWS.
CORPORATE AMERICA now controls the voting machines and we get MANUFACTURED ELECTIONS.