Which one is the toy gun? (Airsofts problem in U.S. and Iraq)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0412080340dec08,1,5464483.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Kids asking for toy guns this holiday are meeting objections even more frightening and serious than, "You'll shoot your eye out."

Consumers, area police and even some gun-rights advocates say today's popular "soft air"-style replica air guns resemble--in shape, size, color and weight--some real and dangerous weapons, like high-powered handguns and assault rifles. And that, they say, puts kids who play with them in danger.

"It's inevitable that an officer is going to shoot a juvenile or someone else with one of these guns," said Lombard Police Chief Ray Byrne.

In fact, that almost happened in Naperville this summer when a 14-year-old running from police pointed a lookalike .45-caliber pistol at an officer. And American soldiers are increasingly concerned about the number of replica guns on the streets of Baghdad.

<snip>

U.S. military officials say they saw an influx of toy and replica weapons in Baghdad last month for the Muslim holiday at the end of Ramadan. The guns turned up in the hands of kids and teens, prompting a public relations blitz by Army officials to get toy weapons off the streets before American soldiers mistakenly shoot any children.

[TaleWgnDg]

1. Didja figure that maybe the *bad guys* are blanketing Iraq w/

look-alike *toy* guns and other weapons? Damn serious, here.

Why? So that our guys will shoot innocent kids. Wow. Lovely headline material and wringing-of-hands material!


.

[TahitiNut]

2. Like Mattell, huh?

If the companies can sell it, they'll make it.

[Jack_DeLeon]

5. Most airsoft guns...

are made by Japanese companies.

[purduejake]

4. As if we weren't killing them fast enough.

I do think there needs to be some kind of restriction with these toy guns. I mean, if somebody pointed one at me, I'd be scared to death and who knows what I would do to protect myself if I could. It's just asking for trouble because most kids love playing at them and don't know better than to point them at people... here or in Iraq.

[TahitiNut]

11. After WW2, us kids had a cornucopia of 'toy' guns.

In particular, we had training dummies (weapons) from war surplus - identical in appearance to Garand M-1's. (I had one of these, myself.) We played "war" ... and we played "concentration camp". (Yes.) We had dummy training grenades. We had (dull) bayonets for the dummy M-1's. On top of all the war surplus, of course, we had an array of cap pistols - the more 'realistic' the better. I don't ever recall trigger-happy police blowing away any kids. In the schools, zip-guns were popular, with barrels made from sawed-off car antennas.

[daleo]

3. If toy guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have toy guns

Something like that.

[currentsupply]

6. The cops are the ones who shouldn't have guns

Except in the trunk of their cars or on swat type raids.

[sweetheart]

15. Yes, a much better way

Police who are brave enough to not be armed with firearms, are much
more likely to create trust with their community. The british
unarmed police i've had encounters with are wholly a different and
more pleasant sort than the gun-swinging cousins.

[saigon68]

35. A few Cops get orgasms from shooting guns

flame away

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. We should replace ALL guns with toy guns

And all bombs with toy bombs. Then we could all enjoy the war.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Traction]

8. One of the top two things that make me extremely mad at the Dems is when

they talk about banning realistic toy guns. The other is when they push for manditory helmet laws for kids riding bikes. They forget when they were kids, but I never will. In the 80's as a kid, I rode my Diamond Back without a helmet, and had an extremely realistic Entertech UZI water gun, not some cheap red joke of a gun that everyone knows is fake. Boy, this stuff makes me fume! :mad:

[ET Awful]

9. When you were a kid, how many kids had been shot by police

for pointing realistic looking guns at an officer and giving him the mistaken belief that his life was in danger?

It's happened many times since then.

[TahitiNut]

12. That would indicate that it's the police that're the problem.

Let's not forget how 'deadly' they thought a wallet was when wielded by a Haitian. Next, we'll be banning 'realistic' wallets, huh?

[ET Awful]

13. Okay, put yourself in this position. . . you're a NYC police officer

last week, your partner was shot by a 14 year old kid with a Glock 17, he died. You'd known the guy for 5 years, and were very close.

Now, you're serving a warrant, you go through the door, and you see a kid with a Glock 17 pointed in your direction, do you fire?

Quick, yes or no? You don't have time to think about it.

To blame a police officer who puts his life on the line daily for taking action when he sees what looks exactly like a real firearm is ludicrous. To compare an officer reacting to such a weapon to shooting a man with a wallet is equally ludicrous.

[TahitiNut]

14. Any officer involved in such a shooting shouldn't be on duty ...

... merely a week after such an incident. If they're carrying that kind of baggage around, they shouldn't be in the field. Killing a kid this week because of what another kid did last week is nuts.

"Understandable" NEVER means "right."

That said, any kid who points a play gun at a cop during some incident that has the cops' guns out and ready is a kid that should probably have its genes removed from the gene pool. There's a point at which the 'victim' certainly does deserve blame, and this is one of them. That's called "suicide by cop" in my book. I love kids; I don't worship them.

Every human being, kids included, bears responsibility for their actions as soon as they're equipped to take an action. When a kid learns to walk, the kid must be made responsible for where it walks. When a kid learns to talk, it must be made responsible for what it says. The problem with such behavior begins far earlier than when the cop walked through the door with gun drawn.

[ET Awful]

18. So basically, what you're saying is that it's the cop's fault

that a kid has what looks exactly like a real firearm, and that the cop should do nothing.

Sorry, but if you're standing several yards away and all you see is a black gun that looks real, you don't say to yourself "gee, I wonder if that's a toy," you take action.

There is no reason whatsoever that any child (or adult for that matter) needs a toy gun that looks identical to the real thing.

[TahitiNut]

21. There's little that I find more intellectually dishonest ...

... than most sentences that begin with "what you're saying is...". I regard such conversational ploys to be condescending, disrespectful, and deceitful. When combined with "Sorry, but ...", the condescension crosses the line into arrogance and facetious posturing. In short, it's inflamatory and antagonistic, imho.

I said what I said. Read it. There's more than enough 'blame' to go around without simple-minded scapegoating. In the hypothetical situation described, everyone is in the wrong, imho. The consequences of such behaviors can be expected and simplistic 'solutions' are mere licenses to perpetuate blame-shifting and irresponsible behavior.

[ET Awful]

24. did you or did you not say it was the cops fault?

Hmmm, I believe what you said was "it's the police that're the problem." Yup, sounds like you blamed it on the police to me. Here's a little hint, if a kid doesn't have a toy gun that looks real, he won't be shot for pointing a toy gun that looks real at a person armed with a real gun for defensive purposes.

It's not difficult to understand.

If you're a cop trained to defend yourself, and someone points this aat you

you will react accordingly. The little white lettering won't be drawing your eye, especially when you're already in a tense situation.

Just for fun, let's look at a real Glock



To imply that a police officer should be able to differentiate between the two in a the fraction of a second it takes to determine whether his life or the lives of others are in danger is ridiculous.

To try and place any blame on a police officer in such a situation is just plain wrong.

[Traction]

32. I took my toy guns everywhere I went

and no cop ever even questioned it. A kid with a toy gun is just that - a kid with a toy gun. Show me just one case of a kid (8 or less) pulling out a gun and shooting a cop.

[ET Awful]

36. Show me where in this thread anyone

talked about an 8 year old kid or less.

Also, what kind of shitty parent would give their child authentic looking guns that actually shoot pellets?

[Guitarman]

19. That would be none...

at least when I was growing up. We were always told not to point even a toy gun at someone. What happened to make kids nowadays so stupid?

[Traction]

30. I am only 32

Being a kid in the 80's wasn't that long ago. When I brought my toy gun to the mall police officers would smile at me. Of course, I was tought the right way, which is never to point my gun at someone.

[ET Awful]

38. And in the 80's, they didn't market toy guns that looked EXACTLY

like the real thing. I know, I was a kid in the 80's. Toy guns then were so obviously toys that there was NO way you could make a mistake. They were smaller than the real thing, they looked like cheap plastic or silver-painted plastic, etc.

They didn't look exactly like a real firearm.

[On the Road]

16. I Appreciate the Libertarian Concerns with Helmet Laws,

but bikes are serious business. I was waiting in the emergency room for something minor a few years ago when a boy was rolled in who had had a bike accident when he was not wearing a helmet. He died.

It's the same with the toy guns -- if kid's lives are in danger, it changes the equation. Rights always have to be balanced against other rights and against consequences.

[snooper2]

27. George Carlin said it best, something about Natural Selection

And how overprotective little Johnny boy parents are fucking up the process....

Now I'm going to get flamed...

[On the Road]

29. Well, I Don't Want MY Little Johnny to Get Naturally Selected

even if I temporarily let my parental guard down. The world should be a little more forgiving than that, and that's why the helmet laws have some merit.

[Traction]

31. I don't care about isolated incidents

If I want my kid to not wear a helmet, it should be my right. I never wore one, so I won't let my kids miss out on anything I did legally. Bad enough I had to wait to 21 to drink because old fart politicians decided to change a law and forget when they were legally drinking at 18. The Democratic Party I love is about granting all of us new rights, not about taking away rights.

[NickB79]

34. Well, first of all, driving a vehicle is NOT a right

It has always been a privelage to operate a motor vehicle. Helmet laws can't, by definition, restrict your right to drive when no such right exists. Secondly, those "isolated incidents" happen thousands of times per year. When some moron on a dirtbike or Harley gets in an accident without a helmet and spends the next few months in the ICU, my tax dollars and insurance premiums are helping to keep him alive. Those "isolated incidents" are partly why we have such inadequate healthcare and insanely high insurance payments in this country.

Considering this matter more, though, I think I may have been too hasty in my opinion of bikers who ride without helmets. After all, they are doing us all a wonderful public service that we may need to take advantage of some day. I mean, where else would we get organs for transplants from?

[slackmaster]

10. Children need to be taught not to point things at strangers

I did it with my stepson. Here in California toy guns are required by law to have at least the muzzle portion made of bright orange material, or painted bright orange. Of course the first thing some kids do when they get such an item is to paint it all black.

But police in this area have on occasion shot people, children included, who have pointed sticks or broom handles at them.

[reprobate]

17. Can we PLEASE stop training our kids to be killers?

I guarantee that five years after we make that decision, we'll have a much more peaceful society.

What a dream. A nation where people talk to each other, not shoot at each other!

[Traction]

33. Oh gimme a break

Boys need to act like boys.

[ET Awful]

37. I see, so your mentality is that "boys" are supposed to pretend to

kill each other?

That's the same mentality Limbaugh uses to justify torture in Abu-Ghraib ("frat-house pranks" comment and all).

It's mentalities like that that keep "boys" wanting to kill other "boys."

If you didn't drill into their minds for their entire childhood that killing each other is a neat idea, then "boys" would find ways to be "boys" that didn't involve imagining new and bloodier ways to kill each other.

[alfredo]

20. Take a look for yourself

http://www.007airsoft.com/main.htm

[livinbella]

22. Quite an arsenal of toy guns!

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Wasn't there a law about bright orange barrel tips on toy guns?

I seem to recall that there was a law that required all toy guns to have bright orange barrel tips. Am I just old and foggy of mind or was this the case?

[ET Awful]

25. Airsoft guns and the like aren't marketed as toys,

they're marketed as pellet guns, and thus avoid the "toy" requirements, just as a bb gun would.

[rinsd]

26. I've seen alot of Air Softs with Orange tips....

...but it appears many do not

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dblended%26field-keywords%3Dair%252520soft%26store-name%3Dall-product-search/103-0957751-0081414

Look at this...




http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DJT94/qid=1102618654/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-0957751-0081414?v=glance&s=sporting-goods&n=507846

[SoCalDem]

28. We raised THREE sons, and none of them ever had (or asked for)

a gun..toy or otherwise.
They are now 31,26 & 27...and all HAVE fired guns at a firing range with their friends who DO like guns..but NONE of them have ever hunted and killed an animal (or person)..

Our middle son fishes, because his boss is mentoring him, and the boss is a fisherman, camper, hiker, etc..(and the boss has a 25 yr old daughter who he would like to fix my son up with :)..)

edit.. I don't know about the status of the "fix-up", but our son is a bit of an opportunist.. His boss found him a Nissan 240-something 1999 ...for $800.00... He promptly sold his 1988 Jeep Cherokee for $900.00 and got paid $100 for getting a pretty nifty little car :)