Humvees No Match for Crude Bombs

[bemildred]

FORWARD OPERATING BASE KALSU, Iraq — This is a graveyard for Humvees, the final resting place for the hulking vehicles felled by insurgents' roadside bombs.

In a parking lot, the U.S. military's most common personnel carriers lie flattened with noses down in the mud. Their metal carcasses are barely recognizable. Tires have been splayed to the sides or blown away entirely. Shrapnel has burst holes in unprotected parts of the vehicles, as if they were tinfoil.]

The nine mangled Humvees here have been destroyed by what the military calls improvised explosive devices, or IEDs.

"Now this one here, you can see the IED tore the whole back end off the vehicle. It's just gone," said Sgt. Patrick Parchment of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, which operates south of Baghdad.

LA Times

[MADem]

1. They are not designed to do the job they are doing

The HUMVEE replaced the jeep, which got better gas mileage but carried fewer people. It was supposed to be an efficient, all terrain transport vehicle to get a buncha guys from Spot A to Spot B--it was touted as "light" in that it did not offer force protection. Then, when they started getting shot at and blown up in unacceptable fashion, they put lipstick on the pig by armoring them and adding ballistic glass, which further reduced their already shitty gas mileage.

The whole use of HUMVEES is the issue--they are the wrong transport for the job these kids are compelled to do. Of course, no one wants to see that. Much easier to keep piling crap on top of crap, and war profiteers get rich while our children are killed and maimed in an inappropriate, wasteful, stupid piece of equipment.

[Boosterman]

6. What really ticks me off about this is

I heard all sorts of talk from military officials that the types of war they would be facing would be urban combat(kinda scary if you think about it for a sec but I digress). So wheres the preparation? Wheres some sort of LAV to transport troops and patrol?

[MADem]

10. That's the GOOD question, that no one is asking

I guess they don't want to play the "PENTAGON WARS" game all over again.

They really ought to dust that movie off and show it again, especially given the present environment. Every time I come across it, I watch it--it's a comedy, but a deadly serious one, and it resonates still. I shudder with the horror of recognition!!!

[Boosterman]

11. LMAO

Thanks for making me smile. I love that movie. "Billion? With a B?"

[Leaning_Right]

21. I'd rather be in a under protected HUMVEE...

...than a zero protected jeep. When I was in the army we there was armor on any vehicle in our battalion. Only tanks and APCs seemed to have the honor. I was in the combat engineers during the time when the banglor torpedo was still the preferred method of clearing certain obstacles. That wasn't that long ago. We measured life expectancy in steps rather than against the entire war.

What we are experiencing in the news today is a perception of an antiseptic war. There is no such thing. Too many movies of false heroics where only the bad guys get hurt and the good guy equipment functions flawlessly. That isn't the real world and never will be.

The best protected vehicle is still in danger by a single motivated individual and the simplest of weapons. Low flying helicopter have been brought down with hand held pocket pointers. A Molotov cocktail does wonders when applied correctly. Rocks dropped from bridges can halt entire supply convoys. That is why resistance fighters are so deadly. They are creative and unpredictable.

[jean]

2. aren't HumVees the wrong vehicles for the job in Iraq?

Months ago, DUers discussed un-armored HumVees and others opined that these vehicles are totally wrong for the job, terrain or whatever - the military should have sent another type of vehicle, from the get-go.

[bemildred]

3. Iraq is the wrong job, but yeah. nt

[jean]

5. goes without saying, but the point was (months ago) that wheeled

vehicles were the wrong way to go. I can't find the old threads, but here is one site discussing the need for tracked vehicles, not wheeled:

http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/hmmwv.htm

[bemildred]

8. Oh yeah, I remember those.

The armor issue was discussed at some length, and the wheels.
We raked the Stryker over coals too. I'm not sure what
the "lessons learned" on the Stryker are, all that I've
seen looks a bit too much like PR releases.

[leftchick]

4. wow, 2 IED hits a day?!

This should be required reading for the tv loving ameriKans....

~snip~

This unit of 2,200 Marines alone is hit at a rate of two roadside bombs daily, and an average of four are discovered each day. "IED" has become a verb to the Marines: "Some of us have been IED'd five or six times," Messer said.

Many are aimed at the 7-ton supply trucks that ply the highways, as the shrapnel-pocked fleet sitting in the parking lot of the 24th MEU shows. The Marines try to avoid putting anyone in the unprotected back of the trucks, pushing everyone into the armored cabs, where "you're fairly well protected," Parchment said.


~snip~

The only visible damage was a streak of jagged rips along the driver's side where shrapnel had strafed it.
The punctures started just above the front tire and rose toward the driver's seat, slicing between the armored side of the hood and the armored door.

"Look at the dashboard if you want to see what happened," said Messer, with a toss of his head toward the Humvee. The gauges were covered with large drops of dried blood. The Marines did not know whether the driver had survived.

[NNN0LHI]

7. If more armor is used won't the Iraqis just make the bombs bigger?

I have seen recent photos on Yahoo of M1 Abraham's that had been blown to smithereens. And you can't get no better armor than that.

Don

[livinbella]

12. You know, that is a good point

Frankly, I am surprised IEDs aren't killing a lot more of us.

[Mari333]

9. Been complaining and calling Congress about this

since the beginning of the goddamned illegal occupation...
I see the slimey bastards have decided not to budget for the care of the soldiers....
cannon fodder to the Repubs, thats all.

[Randi_Listener]

13. Where are the fucking Bradleys and LAV-25s?

This is fucked up.

[makhno]

14. That pic...

Kinda ironic to have that pic of W in his doubtlessly fully armored SUV in this thread.

[NNN0LHI]

16. If you look closely you can see that the windows of Bush's limo...

...are several inches thick.

Don

[makhno]

17. Yes, that struck me

Bet he didn't have to rummage around a landfill to get some spare ballistic glass.

[Randi_Listener]

19. Exactly. He gets the royal fucking treatment...

...while the Marines are grist for the mill.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

15. Well, Bush doesn't really care about the troops!

:grr:

[Randi_Listener]

20. Or any one else for that fucking matter.

[Bigmack]

18. Biiiig Muthas....

I saw a tiny clip on some news or other last nite.

The Insurgents (or Freedom Fighters or whatever) were ductaping what looked like 3 155mm shells together with detonator cord connecting them.

3 155's is one helluva bang!

I dunno nuthin' about no armor... I was a grunt... but I can't imagine that much HE won't clobber most armor that a little old Hummer could carry.