Dissidents protest Monday's Electoral College vote in key swing state Ohio

[Judi Lynn]

Dissidents protest Monday's Electoral College vote in key swing state Ohio
Sunday December 12, 2004

By JOHN McCARTHY
Associated Press Writer

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) As it has done for 200 years, Ohio's delegation to the Electoral College is to meet Monday to cast ballots for president and vice president but this time, there are demands that the electors wait until after a recount.

The Electoral College's vote in the Ohio Senate chamber is expected to be accompanied by demonstrations outside the Capitol sponsored by groups who don't accept that President Bush won the key swing state by 119,000 votes, guaranteeing his victory over Democrat John Kerry.

A demonstration was held Sunday as about 100 people gathered outside the Ohio Statehouse to protest the delegation's vote.

Led by a coalition representing the Green and Libertarian parties, the dissidents are paying for recounts in each of Ohio's 88 counties that will begin this week. The recount is not expected to be complete until next week.
(snip/...)

http://cbsnewyork.com/national/Ohio-ElectoralCollege-aa/resources_news_html

[seriousstan]

1. 100....that is being generous. This is a freaking city of 1 million!!

The best we can do is under 100???? I am about ready to just let the people have the president they seem to want.

[VivaKerry]

2. "DISSIDENTS"!!! Citizens/voters are now DISSIDENTS?!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

They don't even know the meaning of "american dissidents". Hopefully someday they will.

[Winamericaback]

4. I thought the same

And I laughed when I read that the author of the article was named McCarthy ;)

Must just be something with that name... *sigh*

[seriousstan]

5. characterized by departure from accepted beliefs or standards

disagreeing, especially with a majority ......a person who dissents from some established policy

Sounds about right given that we could only get ONE HUNDRED people out of a city of 1 MILLION!!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!
is right. I am so mad I could bite nails. Then I read here at the DU that it is too cold for people to show up and protect the vote. Iwish there was a "smilies" for "pussies".
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

[Judi Lynn]

8. Interesting definition, considering Bush's position on "dissidents"

in Cuba reflects the impression he believes they represent a very important voice in Cuba. Our own CIA has stated that they number around one hundred, with support groups possibly bringing the number to 1,000. That's in a country of over 11,000,000 people.

Calling Ohio citizens who support a recount "dissidents" has a LOADED psychological effect. Sounds as if the rightwing is stepping up the hostililties, starting to highlight people who don't support them as virtual "enemies of the state." Looks like the signal we're entering a new phase, doesn't it?

[nashville_brook]

36. language is so important - PATRIOT Act

New USA-Patriot Act allows police agencies to target dissidents of all kinds

Alan Graf, National Lawyers Guild, Portland Oregon
November/December 2001

The USA-Patriot Act stands for "the Uniting and Strengthening By Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism."  The Act was signed into law by George Bush on October 26, 2001. It provides new powers to law enforcement, some of which seriously infringe upon the civil rights of American citizens and immigrants:

The following is a summary and commentary concerning some of the provisions of the Act.

1. The Act Allows for Detention and Deportation of People Engaged in Innocent Associational Activity.

The Act permits detention and deportation of non-citizens who provide "assistance" for lawful activities of a group the government claims is a terrorist organization, even if the group has never been designated as such. See Section 411 of the USA Patriot Act which adds a new provision to INA section 212(a)(3)(B) of the Immigration and Naturalization Act.

<snip>

http://www.afn.org/~iguana/archives/2001_11/20011116.html

[Stinky The Clown]

19. The use of the word "dissidents" is very troubling

One is a dissident because one questions the honesty of the junta????

[sandnsea]

33. Uh, yeah, NOT GOOD

Another step down the path, I think there should be a huge attack on the use of that word, like, NOW.

[hippiechick]

3. Dissidents ??

:shrug: Next thing you know, they'll be calling us 'Insurgents'.

:hippie:

[TahitiNut]

17. I can only hope we'll earn that label.

:grr:

[grasswire]

what a misinformed, arrogant woman

Karyle Mumper, chairwoman of the Marion County Republican Party, will be an elector for the first time. She, too, feels honored but believes the demonstrations outside will be a distraction.

``It's a shame they do not believe in the honesty and the professional people working the polls,'' said Mumper. ``I just think they are sore losers and money and time (for the recount) could be spent on other things.''


Her husband is a state senator. She is easily contacted, through a quick google search.

I wonder if she would be so sure about the election results if someone sent her a summary of the latest snafus. If I were in Columbus I would ring her doorbell and hand her the information.

Sore losers.

[EFerrari]

18. Would it be harassment if we a cordial note to this, ah, lady

and pointed out that Mr. Katherine Blackhole inspires no confidence? And I do really mean cordial.

Dear Mrs. Mumper,

After reading your comments in the AP story, "Dissidents .. whatever"
I felt compelled to write to you because recent developments have put Sec. Blackwell's stewardship into even further disrepute. In the interest of saving you profound public embarrasment, these are facts you should be aware of before speaking to the press again:

(Facts here. Again, be gentle.)

Sincerely,
Contact info

[EFerrari]

22. Contact info for Mrs Mumper at the Marion Co GOP office

[e-mail] is the only email link on the site
phone: [phone]

[EFerrari]

28. Couldn't resist. Sent this to Ma Mumper

12 December 2004


Dear Mrs. Mumper,

After reading your comments in the AP story, "Dissidents protest . . .", I felt compelled to write to you because recent developments have put Sec. Blackwell's stewardship of the Ohio election into even further disrepute. In the interest of saving you profound public embarrasment, these are facts you should be aware of before speaking to the press again:

Apparently, the troubles at the Xenia location prompted this press release from Rep. Conyers. I've seen it all over and am surprised you have not:


IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
December 12, 2004
CONTACT:
Dena Graziano [phone]

Conyers Alarmed at Efforts to Obstruct Ohio Recount Effort, Calls Witness to
Monday Hearing to Detail Such Efforts

Yesterday, it came to the attention of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff that efforts to audit poll records in Greene County, Ohio are being obstructed by County Election officials and/or Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. According to Joan Quinn and Eve Robertson, two election observers researching voting records, Greene County officials initially gave Quinn and Robertson access to poll records, and then abruptly withdrew such access. Greene County Director of Elections Carole Garman claimed that she had withdrawn access to the voting records at the direction of Secretary Blackwell. Regardless of who ordered the denial of this access, such an action appears to violate Ohio law. Later, at the same office, election observers found the office unlocked, and what appeared to be locked ballot boxes, unattended. Prior to the withdrawal of access to the books, observers had found discrepancies in election records, and possible evidence of minority vote suppression.

House Judiciary Committee Democrats wrote a letter to Blackwell on December 2 requesting answers to 34 questions about election irregularities and fraud in Ohio. This letter included questions about major discrepancies in Perry County poll books. Since that letter, additional documentation has been provided to the Democratic staff demonstrating similar problems in other counties.

Because of the urgency of the Greene County matter, Congressman John Conyers, Jr., Ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, has requested that Ms. Quinn testify at a hearing scheduled Monday in Columbus, Ohio. Ms. Quinn has agreed to do so and will also present sworn statements from corroborating witnesses. Conyers issued the following statement:

"The Recount effort is simply a search for the truth of what happened during the 2004 Presidential election in Ohio. We have now repeatedly seen election officials obstruct and stonewall this search for the truth. I am beginning to wonder what it is they are trying to hide."

Hopefully, this information will help you moderate your statements to the press and avoid causing you future discomfort.

Sincerely,
(contact info)

[leftchick]

6. SORE LOSERS????

<Ohio's electors are a mix of GOP officials and others who are being rewarded for service to the party.

``It's a great honor to serve as a member of the Electoral College and it's a great honor to vote for President Bush,'' said Alex Arshinkoff, longtime chairman of the Summit County Republican Party who is an elector for the second straight meeting.

Karyle Mumper, chairwoman of the Marion County Republican Party, will be an elector for the first time. She, too, feels honored but believes the demonstrations outside will be a distraction.

``It's a shame they do not believe in the honesty and the professional people working the polls,'' said Mumper. ``I just think they are sore losers and money and time (for the recount) could be spent on other things.''>

[cmd]

7. Dear George, That doesn't bother me.......

You have called me a terrorist - twice. You have said I am wild-eyed. Now I'm a dissident. Well, I'm still here. I'll be here tomorrow. Go on name calling. It fits your profile. Just remember, it doesn't bother me. Think of something else.

[Judi Lynn]

11. Some Democrats may have their work cut out of them, trying to manage

being tree-huggers, anti-warriors, flip-floppers, elitists, bleeding hearts, gun-grabbers, anti-God atheists, anti-morality, anti-family abortion lovers, and now wild-eyed dissidents.

[EFerrari]

16. You forgot latte drinking, Volvo driving, NYTimes reading wackos n/t

[blm]

9. Isn't Alex Arshinkoff the pervert who was caught soliciting young men

who he picked up hitch-hiking?

[Dr Fate]

10. Dissident? I prefer to be called a "Goldsteinist."

In George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, describing a totalitarian society ruled by the almighty Party, Emmanuel Goldstein figures in state propaganda as the chief enemy of the state -- a former Party member who conspires against the "wise" leadership of Big Brother. Early in the novel, Orwell introduces the concept of the book supposedly written by Goldstein: "There were...whispered stories of a terrible book, a compendium of all the heresies, of which Goldstein was the author and which circulated clandestinely here and there. It was a book without a title. People referred to it, if at all, simply as The Book."

[leftchick]

12. 850 'journalists' covering Scott Peterson....

and we get this hit piece by someone named Mccarthy?!? I am beginning to hate this country!

[nolabels]

41. I feel honored

I would rather go down swinging than be morally repugnant. Whatever happens in the next few months and years we will be much wiser for. I may be angry and disgusted with it all, but every little piss ant move all these scumbags have been making has been predicted and more or less and expected. Their plans will turn against them in the end, you can be sure.

If I hated this thing called the USA, it would be for some of the treacherous acts it is made to do as a collective, but not the people in it as a whole. There is very small minority that has been elevated by the moneyed and institutional interest to carry out these ill-gotten and corrupt policies. We are just living in a strange time would be my conclusion. A lot of these things have seemed to always have happened but till just recently most people have not been able to keep track of them.

There are more and more like us, it is this ever widening and diversified. Groups like us that are informed about the things going on and crave for more of the knowing is where it’s at. TPTB hate it, this knowing but I think we should all try to adapt to it and embrace it, not turn away in disgust. An eye never stops trying to see, it just stops living

In the end, they like us will all be buried. Until such time I intend to be able to live with myself with a moral conscience and in the process of doing such to understand what I am looking at while it's happening.

Behind every large and deceitful action a very small and weak minded individual lurks, knowing the how and why is the place I choose to try to be at.

[liberal N proud]

13. I jsut returned from a recount training session.

The recount is scheduled to start in Lorain County on Tuesday. Medina County on Monday.

[EFerrari]

15. Thanks so much for doing that for us all! n/t

[EFerrari]

14. Folks, remember this is the AP. That's what we're up against.

The AP spreading disinfo. We need a strategy because this won't be the last time. The print press gets most of their stuff from the AP, although they'd never admit it.

Anyone for a hostile takeover?

[grasswire]

20. well...

...you can write to the reporter [e-mail]. But berating the reporter doesn't help in this case. The reporter doesn't write the headline. The editor does.

[Judi Lynn]

21. You're right. Saves a lot of money when they no longer send their own

reporters to so MANY places.

This is really, really odd. Not only did the reporter McCarthy feel "dissidents" is just fine, but his editor apparently thought it's appropriate, as well.

They can't BOTH be that stupid, and simply misunderstand the impact of the word, so I'm sure it was deliberate, and planned.

[EFerrari]

23. The bad news is the AP is not our friend, they've too many

ties to the Repugnicans & to their cronies.

But, the point is, knowing that, we've to come up with a strategy to deal with them.

[Judi Lynn]

25. You're right. They should be "outed," loudly.

I've wondered for several years about them, reading their "news" pieces on Latin America which never were clean, but always junked up with tons of propaganda buzzwords. ALWAYS.

[EFerrari]

26. Nearly 3 weeks after we raised the recount money and were

very actively engaging the recount process in OH, they released this mendacious piece that implied it was all still very iffy.

The managing editor of the AP is the managing editor of the Omaha World Herald, co-owners of ES&S. And others have pointed out to me that Bushies from the conservative Dallas Morning News are highly placed in the AP.

Geeze, our print press has been taken over by the Pod People!

(And I'm not expert, that's just what I know.)

We need a team to deal with the AP. Because they broadcast far and wide. And because today, they vilified our right to free speech by using the word "dissident" -- a word that will put off if not scare many Americans.

And that editor knew exactly what s/he was doing.

[Judi Lynn]

29. It's sinister because almost everyone has always trusted AP, Reuters,

and, at one time, UPI. As if it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to have ulterior motives. Wow.

I'm coming back later to look up whatever that ES&S is. I'm really curious. We need to know as much as possible. My God, they are really making a mockery of what we have known as our only home.

They should NOT be allowed to get by with it indefinitely.

Yes, Pod People is right! Arrrrrrrrrr!

[EFerrari]

34. If you go to the ap site, then go to the apme site

(that's the AP Managing Editors Association), you'll find that the top editor is also the managing editor of the Omaha World-Herald.

If you go to disimfopedia, you'll find that the Omaha WH co-owns ES&S

Maybe I've been traumatized into paranoia, but I don't think so.

The head editor at the AP sets the tone, the policy, approves the code of ethics.

And if, for example, you compare the C-Span airing of the Conyers' hearing with the AP filing, you won't recognize them as the same event.

I never want to attribute to malice what stupidity will acount for.

And, in my own mind, I'm still studying the AP.

[leftchick]

24. Yahoo Title: Protesters Urge Delay for Ohio Electors

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=1&u=/ap/20041212/ap_on_re_us/ohio_electoral_college

[robbedvoter]

30. But "dissidents" are there - paragraph 7 Is that better than "insurgents"?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

31. that's more than the freeper rally in DC in 2000

WAY more

[Gman]

32. Dissidents??????????

Soon we'll be "insurgents".

[seriousstan]

35. Photo's from Columbus Ohio

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=24415
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=24416
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=24417
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=24418

[nashville_brook]

37. holy f*ck! the MATRIX! -- "dissidents"

i googled "dissidents" and patriot act and followed some links and wound up here!

http://www.matrix-at.org/

MATRIX Defined

(one of the the participating states is OHIO! the others are Florida, Connecticuit, Michigan, and Pennsylvania!)

The Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange (MATRIX) pilot project leverages proven technology to assist criminal investigations by implementing factual data analysis from existing data sources and integrating disparate data from many types of Web-enabled storage systems. This technology helps to identify, develop, and analyze terrorist activity and other crimes for investigative leads. Information accessible includes criminal history records, driver's license data, vehicle registration records, and incarceration/corrections records, including digitized photographs, with significant amounts of public data records. This capability will save countless investigative hours and drastically improve the opportunity to successfully resolve investigations. The ultimate goal is to expand this capability to all states.

The information available through this pilot project has been accessible to law enforcement for many years but now can be accessed in a manner that allows them to react to threats quickly. Much of the information is available to the public upon request, and some may be accessed through the Internet. Some states have public records laws that provide criminal history records to the public. There is no new collection effort involved. No criminal intelligence databases are being connected.

The laws governing access to public record information in each state address what data is made available. Database applications and exchange of information through this pilot project are structured to be in compliance with the laws of each participating state and by policy; the participating state representatives agreed the MATRIX project capabilities could only be used in pursuit of criminal investigative matters.

<snip>

here's the Ohio contact:

Ohio
Mr. John Monce, Jr.
Superintendent
Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation
Ohio Office of the Attorney General
Post Office Box 365
London, OH 43140-0365
Phone: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

[AirAmFan]

38. Waiting to file until the day the Ohio electors meet was a BRILLIANT

tactical move by Arnebeck. There won't be enough time for the Ohio Supreme Court to read the filing and respond to it as a matter of law rather than as a matter of pure Republican politics.

If no injunction is granted, and the electors go ahead and meet anyway to certify Bush, Arnebeck and Jackson will have all the ammo they'll need for weeks more legal action and mainstream media coverage of any demonstrations they can mount.

On the other hand, if the Republicans do the smart thing and delay the electors' meeting voluntarily, then Arnebeck and Jackson will have the mainstream headlines they'd need to press for media examination of every aspect of massive Republican election crime this year.

[thecrow]

39. Have you read the Declaration of Independence lately

I just saw "National Treasure" today and so I was interested in reading it again.... Some have very definite meaning today as in the days of our forefathers.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness --

That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good. (war crimes tribunal?)

HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. (9-11 commission?)

HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants only. (re-districting, gerrymadering?)

HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures. (gitmo?)

HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.

HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and the Convulsions within.

HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries. (SCOTUS?)

HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance. (DHS?)

HE has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures.

HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us;

FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:

FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:

FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:

FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rules into these Colonies:

FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.

HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.

HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.

HE has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.

IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.

[nolabels]

42. We are, this place called USA.....................

a defined nation of such. This dissident thing is where it all started last time, so maybe we go double or nothing, what-ya say :evilgrin:

[Judi Lynn]

40. Kick!

[Pachamama]

43. Here's the actual AP story - they use the word "dissident" in the text...

versus the title as does yours....

But using the word "dissident" is weird....I mean, even saying that implies very strange and negative images in my mind, so I find that its not coincidence that they chose that word...

How about patriots? How about concerned voters?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OHIO_ELECTORAL_COLLEGE?SITE=OKMUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Liberty Belle]

44. E-mail AP to stop calling protesters "dissidents":

[e-mail]

This term is being picked up by all the media now, thanks to AP.
While you're at it, e-mail the networks and newspapers, too.