Two die in shootout (Indianapolis)

[melnjones]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/201825-6208-009.html

My question...how did this guy have a license for a gun after so many arrests? Not to mention the semi-automatic (didn't say he had a license for that). So much for gun control.

[BiggJawn]

1. You need a SPECIAL "license" to carry a semi-automatic?

That's news to me. Perhaps you read the word "automatic" and immediately thought the guy had a machine gun?

Goodpastor probably had a license to carry a handgun because even though he had been involved in previous incidences of violence, none of them involved a firearm or a spouse. You don't forfeit your right to carry a firearm just because you get into a fight.

what bothers me more is what I learn about the neighbourhood from the article. McShane's used to be a nice neighbourhood pub. Hell, the MAYOR would drop in on St. Paddy's Day! The neighborhood was becoming gentrified, too. Investment in the great older bungalow-style homes in the area and renovation of the local parks. Sounds to me like it's falling victim to the Cancer spreading from 38th and Post road...

[kcwayne]

2. Why are you insulting the minority community at 38th and Post

by suggesting the rednecks and bikers that frequented McShane's are somehow being infected by some mysterious "Cancer" carried by those afflicted with poverty? I would guess those rednecks learned how to use handguns and have sex with their cousins completely without the help of any African Americans and Latinos.

[BiggJawn]

4. And afflicted with DRUGS and VIOLENCE....

Don't you dare even TRY to lecture ME on what goes on over at 38th and Post unless YOU have spent nights in your backyard listening to the gunfire, Bub.
I lived in the 3700 block about 1/2 way between Post and Franklin for 9 years. I saw that neighbourhood go down the toilet.
Blight is Blight, and on the Eastside, it had it's epicenter on Post Road between 30th and the Pike.

[tooncesj0nes]

7. kc- is it just me?..

..or do others here find it terribly ironic that your response to a generalization about the behaviour of the inhabitants on post road..is met by a reponse by you that is a generalization about shooting victims that you knew nothing about??

[kcwayne]

9. My generalization was very deliberate and considered

I wanted to make a race generalization about crackers to someone that was doing the same to minorities. That was the point of the post.

[DoNotRefill]

16. Crackers?

You mean like Ritz or Saltines?

Isn't using such language as a derogatory reference to an ethnicity verboten???

[kcwayne]

10. As a matter of fact, I have listened to gunfire in my backyard, Bubba

I lived in Brooklyn, and saw an old man murdered on my front yard when I was 6. I saw a lot of other stuff go down as well that is not important to the point.

Currently, I live relatively close to Post and 38th, and travel through and shop in the area, so I have some direct experience with the neighborhood. I have a niece that lived in an apartment complex around 30th and Post, and she has stories to tell.

But the point is that the actions of those clowns at McShanes had nothing to do with some presumed Cancer spread by the Post neighborhood, and trying to link the two in some tangentially racist comment is vile.

[BiggJawn]

12. Racist?

OK, I'm done with you. I make a comment about the general decline in the Eastside of Indianapolis, WITHOUT mentioning ANYBODY'S pigmentation, and YOU gotta throw the Race Card?

You strike me (as discerned by your posts in this thread) as somebody who sees "Whitey" everyplace you look.

My sympathies.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Ariana Celeste]

19. You're right, man

I live in Plainfield, and only have for about a year now (For those that don't know Indiana, Plainfield is just about 10 minutes west/sothwest of Indianapolis.) but it's already clear to me that the state of Indianapolis is bad. There are areas where people's sewage backs up, and my fiance has told me there are times where they have to give out warnings for people to boil their water. What disgusts me, is that the mayor of Indianapolis wants to raise property taxes to take care of school's atheltic needs, when there are other important things that need to be taken care of instead. Where does all that other money go? :: grumble :: There are plenty of other cities out there that are in far worse condition, but as far as I'm concerned, Indianapolis still has a good chance of NOT getting worse. I don't see it happening though. Then again, I'm only a year old Hoosier. :)

[tooncesj0nes]

5. I know about Post road. And i know about east side Indy.

I used to believe that it was a lack of opportunity that fed the poverty I saw in these areas... then I travelled to peru in the spring where there truly is a lack of opportunity. Hispanics are reshaping inner city communities all across this country with limited language and job training skills...west washington street in Indy is a prime example of people who come here with nothing and build a functioning cohesive community. The hispanics come here and see endless opportunity....while others say 'there is a lack of opportunity..."

[sandnsea]

3. Goodpastor had no license

Some other guy, just sitting in the bar, is the only one who had a license; that's the way I read it. He shot Goodpaster, self-defense. Another guy, Hahn, grabbed a gun from somewhere and was cited for not having a license. Sounds completely wild.

My question, doesn't the city have some sort of public nuisance ordinance and why didn't the neighbors get together and have this place shut down years ago.

[BiggJawn]

6. Very difficult to shut 'em down.

In the last neighbourhood I lived in, they tried for YEARS to get B and B liquors at 22nd and Central shut down, and the nightclub down the street from me.

Some of the most entertaining TV I was ever involved in were the hearings of the Marion County Liquor Board...The hearing where they FINALLY revoked the license for Shannon's Roaring 20's was a hoot! The evidence presented required us to do the first "Viewer Discretion Advised" warning I ever had to do.

There's a LOT of inertia involved. You just about have to have people getting killed on top of your bar to lose your license.

[sandnsea]

8. That's sad

I live in a small town, it's very different. All I had to do is call the mayor and tell him if one person got hurt because of the crack house down the street, there would be lawsuits up the wazoo. And let him know in no uncertain terms, I WOULD be watching. It was gone within a month. I cannot even imagine having this kind of a bar here, the people would be in mass hysteria. I really wish there was some way for neighborhoods in cities to create that kind of community, then each little neighborhood would be watched over and eventually the whole city would be a much better place. Not perfect, that never happens, but at least better. I feel for you, I really do.

[BiggJawn]

11. Well, we were DEATH on Crack-houses, BUT...

A tavern is a legally licensed business. Crack Houses aren't. There's NO trouble getting houses shut down, even bulldozed, to fix that problem.

With taverns, I think there's a sense that they have somebody's livlihood in their hands, so they're reluctant to pull a license unless they have their ducks in the straightest of rows. Even with PROOF of drug sales and prostitution, it took months to get Shannon's shut down.

[DoNotRefill]

15. Round here...

the place'd burn in the middle of the night. Of course, we have far too many shitkicking hillbillies around here that enjoy playing with fire...

[DoNotRefill]

14. That's what I get too...

Goodpaster's license got yanked for previous stupidity, Goodpaster opened fire with a gun he had illegally, Howey had a valid license, drew his sidearm and shot Goodpaster in self-defense, and Hahn picked up Goodpaster's gun while trying to get out of the bar and was arrested for illegally carrying a firearm.

Not to get into a big race flamebait thing with anybody, but from what I read of the article, I got the impression that everybody involved was white....hence the "ex-Irish, now redneck" part of the story...

[NickB79]

17. You're screwing with me, right?

I mean, a gun, used in SELF-DEFENSE? That is statistically impossible, according to some people around here. Guns are only used for what they were designed for: murder, crime and shooting puppies. Didn't you get the memo? <sarcasm>

[DoNotRefill]

18. I think it's pretty funny....

that Hahn got busted for picking up a dropped gun during a firefight without a FOID card...Well, OK, funny, in a pathetic kind of way. I wonder if he'll ofer a necessity defense?