2nd Report Shows Charter School Students Not Performing as Well as Others

[DeepModem Mom]

New York Times:
A Second Report Shows Charter School Students Not Performing as Well as Other Students
By DIANA JEAN SCHEMO

Published: December 16, 2004


WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - A federal Education Department analysis of test scores from 2003 shows that children in charter schools generally did not perform as well on exams as those in regular public schools. The analysis, released Wednesday, largely confirms an earlier report on the same statistics by the American Federation of Teachers.

The department, analyzing the results of the National Assessment of Educational Progress test for fourth graders, found charter students scoring significantly lower than regular public school students in math, even when the results are broken down for low-income children and those in cities.

In reading, the report said, over all there was no statistically significant difference between students in charters and in regular public schools. However, when students in special education were excluded, charter students scored significantly lower than those in regular public schools.

When broken down by race, the results show charter students generally lagging behind those in regular public schools in reading and math, but the differences were not statistically significant, the report said....


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/16/education/16charter.html

[aquart]

1. Golly, what a surprise.

I guess privatized schools aren't the same as private schools.

[goclark]

37. Well my, my

surprise, surprise.

The Right Wing thrust for Charters was/is not about educating, it is about brain washing innocent children and families into believing that public schools are not good.


Go Public Schools!!!! Go NEA!!!

[gumby]

2. Another neo-con strategic initiative shot down

by the reality based community.

[countryjake]

3. Score one for Public School Teachers!

I suggest that maybe Eugene W. Hickok (deputy education secretary), Jeanne Allen (president of the Center for Education Reform), & Rep John A. Boehner (Republican of Ohio and chairman of the House Committee on Education and the Work Force), should have their reading comprehension levels tested!

[HuffleClaw]

4. what is truly surprising is that this ever saw the light of day

they are pretty practiced at keeping such things from the public when they are counter to the administrations' views.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. If the differences are not statistically significant

than why even bother to bring it up?

I don't know about other places but here in Alachua Co FL our charter schools have been very successful. Most are grassroots organizations with lot's of parental involvement.

One factor to consider is that in Public School you are more likely to be classified has ESE, in order to get the difficult kids out of the regular systems, so they don't mess us the school's FCAT scores.

Second, since charter school can decide their own curriculum they are less likely to teach to the (FCAT) test and are therefore less likely to do as well as the public school kids, who do nothing but study for the FCAT most of the time.

As for myself, I really don't care how my kid does on these tests like the FCAT, I am much more concerned about him getting a good education that will make him a well rounded human, who will be ready to take on whatever he wishes when he graduates.

[bread_and_roses]

6. Therer ARE statistical differences noted

in the article:

>charter students scoring significantly lower than regular public school students in math, even when the results are broken down for low-income children and those in cities.<

>In reading...when students in special education were excluded, charter students scored significantly lower than those in regular public schools.<

However, the arguement against Charter schools is the arguement of fairness - public funded education is intended to provide EQUAL ACCESS to education. Taking money out of already under-funded public systems in inner cities - schools without money often for enough books, computers, libraries, science equipment, teachers - to enrich private corporations or fund non-for-profits which operate for select students undermines the public education system. Which is exactly what the neo-cons want.

We need to ork for adequate funding and improvement in the public education system, not dismantling it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. According to the article

"He noted that charters tended to enroll more black students, and were disproportionately located in cities."


So much for hurting those already under-funded public systems in inner cities. As a matter of fact, charter schools are the only other alternative to a crappy public school that some of these students might ever get.

At least half of the charter schools in my community are for low-income or at risk students. Maybe that is why they don't perform as well on the tests?

Keep in mind that because the Charter schools get state funding, they are FREE for the students who attend.

The argument about the money doesn't hold up, because the Charter schools only get the amount that would have been alloted for that student in public schools. Since the public schools in my area are now overcrowded, charter schools are actually helping relieve some of the burden.

[tsuki]

13. Charter schools are part of the system here, and they were approved

by Lawton Chiles to counter what was becoming a two tier system, the superfunded private magnet schools and the underfunded public schools.

In hearings, magnet schools (with admission requirements) were being funded on a per pupil basis by their districts at two to one. They were the schools that the Reps were always taken to when they toured the school system.

Charter schools cannot receive more funding than government schools here. If there is extra funding, it must be raised by the teacher-parent boards that govern the school.

[pinerow]

7. A specious argument at best...

The central ideology behind Charter Schools is to undermine the Public School system...As A Central Floridian I can state that the Alachua county educational efforts are woefully negligent and more concerned about Nativity scenes and school prayers.

Don't like the FCAT's?...quit voting for the idiots who want that sort of thing to continue...but then again...if you want good education, you might find out that it may cost a bit more...so continue to vote down school bond issues...continue paying teachers crappy salaries (ya pay peanuts, ya get monkeys), but most of all, continue voting for the repubs on your county commisions and representatives to state and federal governments.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Would you like to provide backup for your claims?

School prayer and nativity scenes have not been an issue around here as far as I know.

Besides, Alachua County voted 57% for Kerry and McBride. We didn't vote for the assholes that are running this state and the public schools into the ground.

[pinerow]

12. Last known techer salary schedules for Alachua County...

scroll through pp 65-72...much more money spent on sports and sports related activities than to the arts or tutoring programs....

http://www.sbac.edu/~wpops/Bargaining11601/teacher03-06.pdf

2004 FCAT Math

http://fcat.fldoe.org/search/default.asp

Alachua County Voting Results 2004

http://fcat.fldoe.org/search/default.asp

seems like the only Democrats to win were Corrine Browne and Ed Jennings Jr.

Alachua County: Where men are men, and sheep are scared.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Cliff Sterns win because most of his district is in Monroe County

He rarely even visits Gainesville. Same with the other twit from SW of here. That's what gerrymandering will do for you.

"much more money spent on sports and sports related activities than to the arts or tutoring programs"

Gee no, shit. That is one of my big problems with the public schools around here. We actually have a charter school in town that is devoted to music and art. I bet those kids suck on the FCAT, but so what.

[tsuki]

17. They can't "suck on the FCAT," they'd lose their money.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

25. Not to mention

That students who are involved in the arts tend to score higher than other students, because of the ways that these activities stimulate brain activity.

[pinerow]

19. I would disagree that the Arts and Music students would do

poorly on the math or English FCAT's...and to be frank with you, We, as parents have allowed this situation to exist because it is much more exciting to see little Johnny score a touchdown than to see little Johnny complete one grammatically correct sentence.

Alachua county is not so different from the other Florida counties who would prefer to pay less taxes and have a winning high school football team.

Case in point: High school football championships tournaments get much more airplay and print space than the kid(s) who scored very well on SAT's And ACT's.

People will always "play to the pay plan" and in this sorry ass state I live in...Sport is king and damn the academics.

PS...we are not in disagreement about standardized testing. I truly believe it leaves way too many children behind.

[tsuki]

29. Son was academic team for four years and never recognized. Most of the

time the sponsor only showed up for inter-school contests.

But every Friday afternoon, there was a two hour "pep rally" for the football team. Mandantory.

[tsuki]

16. Lawton Chiles always supported education, public education. He did

not support the two tier system that public education was becoming. That is why I feel that we have a better charter act than most other states.

You cannot superfund one segment of your population, and send "school lists" home to parents from the other segment that include, one box of tissue and two rolls of toilet paper."

[tsuki]

11. We are finding that also here.

"One factor to consider is that in Public School you are more likely to be classified has ESE, in order to get the difficult kids out of the regular systems, so they don't mess us the school's FCAT scores."

Of our charter schools, one is an "A." The other school is an "alternative" school where the county dumps its problems. Those of us watching are worried that ESE children that are not qualified as ESE are being sent there to get them out of the government system and not affect the FCAT. School is not doing well.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Teaching credentials are obviously less important in Charter Schools.

But--maybe Jenna will surprise us all & become a dedicated educator.

[ElectroPrincess]

14. And we'll all get new shoes ...

When Jenna teaches Charter School! <gigles and blush>

[tsuki]

18. All teachers here in the charter system must be certified. If the value

of the teaching credentials are to be called into question, then it is a state problem.

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. kick

[pinerow]

21. kick some more....

nt

[Peregrine]

22. I teach at a charter in Orlando

Two problems with our funding: 1) our owners take a % off of the top, comes to about $500K a year 2) the county takes a cut for administrative costs to the tune of $1.4M over 2 years.

The money received by the school is eaten up even more since we have to pay for our own transportation, building costs (still paying for the construction), facility costs (air, mainenance...) which eats up more than 50% of the budget.

I'd rather be in a public school, but you teach where you can get the job. I held out for public school scale, but other teachers here didn't. We are short of teachers, supplies...

Charters can ge good solutions, but the ownership needs to be closely looked at. For profit is death. But an ownership group composed of local companies and parents would work better. They can solve overcrowding in public schools while still being bound to state education standards.

[pinerow]

23. Great Post...!!!

nt

[fortyfeetunder]

24. Who owns the school?

I've been skeptical about the charter school principle for some time. And the administration and operation have been one of the topics that I have yet to understand.

Are charter schools owned by individual educational access companies?In your case who owns the charter school?

[pinerow]

27. Charter Schools are generally "for profit" entities and are for the

most part privately owned...there are some restrictions placed on ownership and that seems to vary not only state to state, but also, county to county.

[tsuki]

31. Ours is not "for profit." However the academy (alternative school) where

the county dumps its discipline problems and ESE is. It is not very good.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Not all. I know a DU;er that runs a non-profit charter school..her kids

are the kids the public schools PUSHED OUT so that they wouldn't drag their test results down. Granted the Edisons of the world just want to suck money out of the education system but some charter schools are teaching the high school aged kids that the public school system gave up on...of course their scores in math would be a bit lower...these were the worst of the worst students in the public school system

[kostya]

28. Peregrine, can you comment on an earlier poster's assertion

that all the teachers are credentialed? If there is a shortage I have observed that there are often waivers to credentialing. This is a serious problem in CA for instance. - K

[tsuki]

32. All teachers have certification in Florida, but whether it is in the field

that they teach is a different matter.

There are many fields, speech, ESE to name a few, which are critical. A teacher "out of their field" may teach one year only unless they receive six credits in that field until they reach certification.

Speech is difficult because speech therapists must have a masters. So they teach out of field (having only a Bachelor's) until they complete their master's program.

[tsuki]

30. Our charter school is owned by the parents, teachers and administration.

But backing by local businesses is where they received their start up money. Schools are big business. The school district in our county is the largest single employer in the county.

[rainbow4321]

26. And the repukes still try to convince us this is a good thing?

Notice the Texas charter school info here.. hmmm...one guess who started the charter school crap?? Chimp was on a charter school kick during his Texas regime..except by the time it came for him to run for prez, he didn't have a whole hell of a lot to brag about since the schools were failing horribly and in funding scandals...


http://www.nea.org/issues/charter/

In the first half of 2002, the California State Board of Education reduced funding to 46 charter schools after an audit found the schools failed to follow state spending guidelines. State education officials and legislators in Indiana, Massachusetts and elsewhere were exploring how to better monitor charter school funding and spending. (Education Week, March 20, 2002)

In 2001, the Texas legislature instituted a limit on the number of charter schools allowed to operate in the state. The move came after 10 Texas charter schools closed and 600 displaced charter school students were forced to repeat a grade because of inadequate record keeping. Additionally, test scores for the Texas charter schools were lower than those in public schools.

In late March 2002, the Arizona Board of Education took unprecedented action to start the process leading to revocation of the Northwest Charter Academy's contract with the state. In an investigation of the school in February, state officials found that the school, operated as a private Christian school before getting its public charter, was openly promoting religion. (The Arizona Republic, March 26, 2002)

The District of Columbia Board of Education revoked the charters of three of their 17 charter schools in August 2001 because of chronic problems with teaching, discipline, attendance, and administrative oversight. Suggested probationary measures were rejected because the board believed there was no chance of resolving the problems and that the schools were doomed for failure. (The Washington Post, August 8, 2001)

In 1999-2000 80% of children in Texas public schools passed the Texas academic achievement tests, and only 37% of charter school students passed the same test. (The Dallas Morning News, May 19, 2001)

[Cocoa]

33. "I wouldn't call this a failure, I'd call it a non-test"

to borrow the language from the missile defense people...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2834149&mesg_id=2834149

[Tansy_Gold]

35. Arizona has a lot of charter schools

To my knowledge, not all teachers in the AZ charter schools are certified. IIRC, at least one christian charter school in the Phoenix area was closed because its owner had a background of child abuse. Several others have been closed for financial problems, where operators took all the funds and left the kids. . . . nothing.

The DoE report indicates that not all schools in all states require teacher certification.

The DoE report indicates that many schools are closed or sanctioned because of financial misdealings rather than student performance.

IMHO, charter schools are a rightwing trick to siphon public education monies into the private sector, diminishing the public education system and creating a permanent underclass of poorly educated workers.

If I were ever elected President, I would immediately defund ALL charter schools and provide funding so the public schools could do the job they're supposed to do.

[pinerow]

36. I'll be the first one to vote for you...!!

nt