Christmas Tree Controversy

[Postmanx]

Atheists protest "giving tree"

BELLEVUE - You can't miss the Christmas tree in Bellevue City Hall.

"It's decorated with gold balls and gold ribbon," described a city worker.

They don't actually call it a Christmas tree.

"We call it the giving tree because it's meant as a season of giving and that's what it's for," explained Patrice Cole, who just made a donation.

The tree is adorned with requests for gifts from needy families.

It generates nearly $25,000 dollars worth of donations.

Sidney and Jennifer Stock are atheists.

They asked the city council to remove the tree because it represents Christmas which is a Christian holiday.

Stock says city hall should "Act as a place where everybody feels welcome. It is impossible for everybody's religious belief to be displayed and non-religious belief to be displayed, so therefore, no religious beliefs be displayed."

[trotsky]

1. Dumb mistake.

And I'm an atheist.

The "Christmas" tree is not a Christian idea - it's a pagan tradition, and may even predate that. The evergreen is a symbol of life in the midst of winter, and was respected by early humans for that reason.

This will only cause people to hate atheists even more. Dumb dumb dumb.

[liberalhistorian]

4. I agree, especially since

it's doing so much good for the community and has raised a lot of money for those in need. Normally, I understand totally where people like that are coming from, even though I'm a Christian, and I agree that there shouldn't be any religious symbols whatever on public property, but I agree with your reasoning here.

[HuckleB]

9. Exactly.

Nevermind that the "holiday," as the mixed historical concoction that it is, isn't just for "Christians" anymore. Some of it is simple, family tradition. I'm an atheist and my wife is an agnostic, but we still celebrate Christmas/Solstice/New Year season with a tree and decorations and feasts. And why not? What's wrong with getting folks together socially?

[Union Thug]

10. I am also an Atheist..and agree with you...

Stupid move from a PR perspective.

[Ilsa]

27. Thanks for your post.

I'm a "Happy Holidays" kind of Christian, but I think they've gone overboard with this.

[Piperay]

42. I agree

they are making asses of themselves and hurting their cause by make a thing about a tree that isn't even called a Christmas tree and one that is for charity.

This almost seems like something the RW fundies would do to hurt the non-Christian side and make them more hated.

[RevolutionaryActs]

2. But trees are a Druid thing that the Christians stole......

:wtf:

[proud patriot]

3. I thought the "tree" has pagan roots

:shrug:

[soleft]

7. It's totally pagan - so is the Easter bunny -

[Union Thug]

11. As are aspect of the idea of Santa Claus..

whether you are of the thunar, Woden or Father Frost school of thought, it's a pagan idea. The whole idea of a winter seasonal fest is pagan. Yule, 12 days, etc. all borrowed.

[Pepper32]

29. It sure is...

Here is an interesting site that that addresses the origin of the Christmas tree
http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm


I don't get why an Atheist would oppose a Christmas tree either. Maybe they think it's tied more to Christianity now.:shrug:

[jeffvail]

36. The whole damn thing is "pagan"

Christianity is about as "pagan" as they come, despite the statements of some. Why do you think we celebrate Christ's birth on Dec 25? As if that's when they conducted harvest/census in Israel? Or maybe it's because of the Winter Solstice...

[ronnykmarshall]

5. So a monorah should be called what?

The "giving" candles?

:wtf:

[JI7]

6. i don't know the history of the menorah

but the "christmas" trees does have it's origins in something that had nothing to do with the christian religion and has been used to celebrate many different things around the world and by many different people which has nothing to do with christianity.

if it was the cross or 10 commandments it would be a different thing probably.

[TahitiNut]

8. No, the menorah would be a symbol ...

... of conserving our oil resources and stretching the supply eight-fold. Really.

[blondeatlast]

30. Very clever!

:bounce:

[TahitiNut]

45. Thanks! I never know ...

... whether the humor is so obscure that others just don't get it (and I'm somehow unusual in knowing the history behind the 8-arm menorah and Chanukah) or whether it's so lame that I'm just mentally masturbating. :silly:

It also worries me that I may resort to 'clever' for lack of 'wise'. :dunce:

[Yuugal]

12. Atheists my ass!

Tell me Rove isn't paying these people. Who the hell could be against a giving tree? There is one in my daughters dance school where you buy a gift for a kid who doesn't have a chance in hell of getting it at home because their family is trying hard just to eat and pay for heat. Someone slap these people......

[Union Thug]

13. hmmm.. good point. It does make you wonder....

[proud patriot]

15. I know it doesn't seem like something a liberal would oppose

x(

[Telly Savalas]

17. Atheism doesn't necessarily indicate liberalism.

And anyway, difficult people come from all faiths, traditions, and ideologies.

[NashVegas]

33. Similarly

You can be an atheist and still be an asshole. These people pretty much prove it.

[VegasWolf]

46. Absolutely, I have some atheist friends that are hard core repubs. They

just don't support chimpanzee. He's causing them to lose
too much money.

[malachi]

19. I agree completely. These jackasses are on the RNC payroll.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. I doubt it

I think they are just fanatical fundamentalist atheists. Some people are like that. They aren't happy unless they are screaming about discrimination and yet they won't go after the real problems in society. Where are they on faith based initiatives. Did they vote, organize of donate to liberal candidates?

Yikes is all I can say.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

21. I agree...

I smell bullshit.

[Bouncy Ball]

23. It does indeed make one wonder...

I mean this is just stupid.....

[Mad_Dem_X]

24. Exactly! They're helping needy families

for crying out loud! What kind of idiot would be against something like that (well, besides a Republican)??? :eyes:

[Ilsa]

28. Haaaaa! hahahahaha. Great point.

Ya'll are right: I bet they are on the RNC or Christian Coalition payroll. They are probably nervous as hell that someone is going to "out" them as born-a-gins.

[blondeatlast]

32. Interesting; I've never met an atheist or agnostic who was offended

by my wishing them a "Merry Christmas," either, and I worked in an upper-echelon retail department store for 12 years...

I think you are on to something.

[enigmatic]

37. I have; many, many of them....

I'm not a christian, either. There are nutcase athiests just like nutcase christians; I completely believe this story.

[Piperay]

43. Yeah

I think it is a 'set-up', really.

[purduejake]

14. I don't se a problem as long as...

it doesn't have any crosses or other religious stuff on it. A decorated tree doesn't symbolize any one religion that I can think of.

[catgirl]

16. They took the life of a tree & called it a giving tree

[idiosyncratic]

20. ROFLMAO . . .

Good one.

[Danmel]

18. Evergreen State

Hey, Washington is the Evergreen State- can't they call it a "Washington Tree"??????

[Bouncy Ball]

22. Ah please

the tree was a PAGAN tradition!!!

And there are "giving trees" in malls with little tags on them with names of needy kids and what they need, their age, their clothing sizes, etc.

Sheesh. I'm all for separation of church and state, but the tree wasn't even originally a Christian tradition. It got co-opted by early Christians.

[progressivebydesign]

26. This story really got me annoyed today!

I'm up here in Washington, so I saw the story early today. Unfortunately, these types of stories, regardless of these fools' political leanings, are so damaging to Democrats... because the first thought in EVERY republican's mind, is that 'those stupid liberals are at it again, trying to take Christmas away from us'. There are much bigger fights for those people to take on. Supposedly, they are fighting the tree because an unnamed City employee, who is an athiest too, said it makes him uncomfortable to work around the tree and he fears for his job if he complains.

I don't want a country that is religion-free.. I just want a government that does not form an official religion, and try to force me to belong. Like the Constitution guarantees us.. right?

[seriousstan]

31. I just heard Randi Rhodes say the tree isn't a Christian symbol

it is a pagan symbol.

[Fleshdancer]

34. I'm suppose to believe Christians are THIS persecuted in America?

In the past two weeks there seems to be an unusually large amount of stories like this all over the country. I'm beginning to think we have a Rovian type tactic on our hands.

[enigmatic]

38. Oh, please.

There are as many humourless idiots on this side of the idealogy sphere as there are on the right. This hasppens, trust me. And denial of it is silly.

[catnhatnh]

41. Think "Fox News"....

....and their current meme "Christmas Under Attack"...All you have to do is load your nutballs (Atheist ones in this case) and point them at your target....instant "Story"....

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Then there are the Christians who get offended

by Christmas trees because of their pagan origin. Face it, getting offended is the great American pastime. Most of us aren't truly happy unless we have something to get really offended about.

Then of course, there's the possibility that these are really Christo-fascists pretending to be atheists in order to provoke an even greater backlash against "them libruls".

In any event, there will be alot of room for alot of people to be very joyously offended this Holiday season.

[enigmatic]

39. You are correct!

"Face it, getting offended is the great American pastime. Most of us aren't truly happy unless we have something to get really offended about."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[hollowdweller]

40. My Grandma is a Fundamentalist and she thinks they are pagan

[imenja]

44. This is exactly the kind of idiotic thing that fuels the Right

Waging battles over this sort of thing is a waste of energy. We have so much insanity in society now--Iraq, destruction of the environment, economically disastrous policies, the list is endless--why focus on Christmas trees?

[Swamp Rat]

47. Karl Rove dirty tricks

If not, he will capitalize on it as he is already doing this anyway.

[VegasWolf]

48. Who's going to tell these bush fundies that they celebrating a pagan

ceremony ( slightly modified by Constantine when the
Council of Nicea voted that jesus was a deity and not a mere man ).