It's time to pass torch, younger Dems say

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON — They are opining, organizing and running for party chairman. A wave of young Democrats is demanding not just to be heard but to take charge.
...
Young Democrats believe that the party is dominated by people who came of age politically in the 1960s, and it's time for them to make room for new ideas and new voices. Theirs.

"We respect the struggles of the feminist movement, the civil rights movement and Vietnam, but (we) are not defined by those struggles," says Kirsten Powers, 37, a New York-based strategist and commentator for Fox News. "We want to take what is good in liberalism and make it better, and get rid of what is not working."
...
A former aide to Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., Gerstein wrote in The Wall Street Journal that Democrats have "fallen right back into the elitist, weak-kneed, brain-dead trap" they thought they'd escaped with Bill Clinton.

He called for more muscle in foreign policy, more respect for religion and "banishing Bob Shrum and his tone-deaf Chardonnay populism" from future presidential campaigns. Shrum, 61, was nominee John Kerry's top adviser.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2004-12-16-dem-turks_x.htm

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. I agree

to pass the torch, not necessarily to younger people, but to people who have a spine, are not afraid and are proud of their convictions. Enough with Rethugs lite and reactionary enablers! Let's get some brass balls and iron boobs, fer Chrissakes!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liberalmike27]

18. Problem

The real problem with that is these people didn't go through any of the stuff they mention. Other problems include the media, which has most people totally in their spell.

This is just more of the same. Faced with the likelihood that democrats probably won, yet had the election stolen by voting machines pre-programmed for a Bush win before they ever left the factory, this whole discussion is also pointless.

Anything works in an honest playing field, that works. But this sounds like more of the Democrats need to become exactly like Republicans. I'd like to see the parties merge, so we can all get about starting another one, perhaps one that addresses the needs of those who don't earn over $50,000 a year.

Luckily, the old folks at least have lived though a severe depression, or were born close enough afterward to understand how severe the effects are, but I wonder if these young folks, many who don't even understand the mood of our country during the Vietnam war, can visualize how bad this country will become were we to enter into another one. I especially wonder if they understand we are reversing one by one, all of the safeguards, regulations, and other steps that FDR put into place to prevent the conditions for another one. We are on the precipice, the rope is fraying, and we have a population that is oblivious to the fall.

[rpannier]

2. I'm all for dumping Scrum

He's been a failure in almost every campaign he's touched. Beyond that, I find the woman to be suspect.

[tsuki]

56. What was the bell ringer? Fox Commentator LOL.

[rpannier]

85. A Loser (n/t)

[Stuckinthebush]

3. Hmmmm....

"We respect the struggles of the feminist movement, the civil rights movement and Vietnam, but (we) are not defined by those struggles," says Kirsten Powers, 37, a New York-based strategist and commentator for Fox News. "We want to take what is good in liberalism and make it better, and get rid of what is not working."

I don't trust anyone who is a commentator for FOX news.

[Khephra]

5. So...if we're not defined by those struggles

(which we mostly won, I'd like to add) then what ARE we defined by? It sure as hell isn't anything that's going to come from Faux sell-outs or Lieberman DINOs.

I do agree that there needs to be a turnover, though. It's WAY past time. If it wasn't for Dean (and to a lesser extent Clark and Kucinich) there wouldn't have been any new blood brought in from the grassroots the last two years.

[tsuki]

57. And with From's attack on MM, they seem

to be trying to alienate a portion of the party as unworthy.

[Mandate My Ass]

6. Translated: women's rights and civil rights are so 1990's.

everybody who doesn't jump on the corporate, free-market bandwagon had better get prepared to be crushed under its wheels.

Bastards.

[Bono71]

14. I don't think civil rights, women's rights and the free-market are

mutually exclusive issues. In fact, under Clinton all three flourished.

[Mandate My Ass]

16. Newsflash: We're not under Clinton anymore

and women's rights and civil rights have taken some serious hits over the past four years.

[Bono71]

17. Newsflash: that isn't due to the free market.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. Newsflash: civil rights and free markets exist in inverse correlation

for one to fluorish the other must diminish.

[Bono71]

21. Good grief...Are you stating under Communism civil rights

flourished? I certainly hope not.

Are you also stating that the free market we enjoyed under Clinton was a time of repression?

Call me when you have a time and date set for the next politburo meeting.

[Mandate My Ass]

25. Erm no, but thanks for putting words in my mouth

Clinton was not a progressive but your insistence on bringing up his name in a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with him is -- well -- intriguing to say the least.

The next politburo meeting? LOL, that's so....what's the word I'm searching for here? Hyperbolic? Hysterical? Immature? Delusional?

Hmmm, I just can't decide.

Linear thinking and circular reasoning. What a concept! :silly:

[Bono71]

27. Oh, and that bit of "inverse correlation" might be the

most psuedo-intellectual thing I've ever read on a message board...congratulations.

[Mandate My Ass]

29. Thank you, bono

from a pseudo intellectual to a knee-jerk reactionary. :toast:

[Bono71]

31. Lol...cheers!

[Demeter]

34. Quite the Opposite, Really

Freedom in civil rights is directly translated into freedom in other areas--a controlled market is predicated on control in all areas.

[reprobate]

45. The only "free market" that grew under clinton .........

...was more takover of gov't by corporations.

[Lorien]

24. 1970s, really

the 1990s was hardly a "liberal" decade! I was appalled, while working for corporate America in the early 1990s, at how blatant sexism and racism have become AGAIN in the workplace. When I would ask WHY I was making far less than my slower, newer, and less talented males peers, they would just say "you're a woman; you can get married. Men need to support families (these had none)they need stuff". Yeah, right. Tell that to my single mom who raised both of us when my dad ran off with another woman. :grr: :grr:

I agree that the torch needs to be passed-to REAL liberals. Progressives who are damned proud of being Progressive and will FIGHT for REAL values; equality, tolerance, environmentalism, worker's rights, education, diplomacy, a economy that supports EVERY citizen, etc.

When the left moves right, it tells the world that our positions are to be moved away from, while the right is where all the good ideas are. Plus, it only moves the center further right and emboldens the far right to become more radical. Enough. If the left wants to become "tougher", it need not become pro-war; it needs only to scream down right wing moles like this creature, and all GOP "commentators", pundits, radio hosts, and politicians.Time to get loud and get bold, or become entirely irrelevant.

[Bono71]

26. The idiots that told you that stuff were breaking the law...

it never ceases to amaze me how dumb some people are...

Corporations that succeed get the best person for the job and compensate them (to keep them).

[VegasWolf]

47. "Corporations that succeed get the best person for the job and

compensate them." Rarely, corporations are a human enterprise
full of human foibles. The people that run corporations are
ruthless and very smart. I succeeded very well in that environment.

[Bono71]

52. And your point is????

[VegasWolf]

54. That prima facie your sentence is untrue. n/t

[Bono71]

58. I stand by the statement. Corporations with the best people

win (generally, speaking).

[VegasWolf]

59. Stand by it, I could care less. No wonder you have such a difficult

time on this board.

[Bono71]

61. I have no difficulty on this board...I have fun pointing out

hypcorisy. Corporations ARE evil! Lol...maybe if Kerry had run under this mantra he would have won...We should try that in 08!

[VegasWolf]

63. You don't, huh. BTW, your pointing out doesn't succeed too well.

ENRON was a parody of saint hood. You always make
the mistake of putting words in other peoples mouths,
and believe me, your words would NEVER come out of my
mouth. I never said corporations were evil. If i
look back up I said corporations are human enterprises
and as such suffer from human foibles. You might
think you are having fun trying to point out other
peoples hypocrisies, but really you are simply boring.

[Bono71]

65. Ummm...

this thread started with a statement that free markets and civil rights were impossible to have coexist. That is where the discussion is coming from...

I may be boring to some, but I certainly seem to strike a nerve with you and occupy a great deal of your attention. You must enjoy being bored.

As far as what you wrote, I generally have zero idea what you are writing about anyway.

[VegasWolf]

67. LOL. I really do enjoy your reactionary responses. n/t

[Bono71]

68. Good, I'm glad I entertain.

[abelenkpe]

82. No

No way. I've worked for several behemoths. Corporations with the most creative accountants win. Not the best people. Unless, of course, lying cheats are your definition of Best People.

[Bono71]

83. You're right...

It's all a matter of luck and cheating. Creativity, product, technology, none of that plays a part. I am so naive to think that a solid product at an affordable rate will sell in the American market.

I think I'll dissolve my corporation today. Time to go fire the staff....

[tsuki]

60. Sometimes I wonder, if it is the corporations that are important? Lately

it seems it is the CEO's salary, stock options and golden parachutes that are the most important part of a corporation.

[Bono71]

66. Unfortunately, I agree with you there.

[Mandate My Ass]

30. You said it

the slide that started in the 80's only slowed slightly in the 90's or was packaged so as to disguise the further slide. But we're facing free-fall here.

Nobody is complaining about how far-right idealogues have invaded government and are passing poison pill legislation with little or no debate. These DINOs insist we must become like them though I have never heard a discussion let alone a consensus of opinion on things like mandatory psychological testing, federal ID cards, relaxing environmental standards, sneak and peek searches etc. etc. etc.

[iamjoy]

42. Yes! Well Said!

"I agree that the torch needs to be passed-to REAL liberals. Progressives who are damned proud of being Progressive and will FIGHT for REAL values; equality, tolerance, environmentalism, worker's rights, education, diplomacy, a economy that supports EVERY citizen, etc"

and we don't need to pander to religion - just do a better job of stating why we believe so strongly in separation of church and state.

[VegasWolf]

44. Well said, the 90's were hardly my idea of a liberal decade. But

a backlash has to happen against the extreme conservativism
we see today. The pendulum swings. Here's hoping for the
swinging 20's.

[tom_paine]

7. And you are correct to do so. Just as I would trust no Nazi or Soviet

spokesmodels.

Anyone who serves evil (or Bushevik propagandists if you believe there is some seperation between evil and they), who takes money from evil, cannot be trusted.

[peacebird]

22. or who was a campaign aide to LIEberman

let's face it - LIEberman is a dem in name only.

[genieroze]

23. I don't trust rethugnakin lites. eom

[Demeter]

33. Anyone Who Thinks Those Struggles Are Over

Is deluding herself and anyone foolish enough to listen.

[Just Me]

37. Tell me about it!!!

We have no where near "arrived" at establishing equality, liberty and justice FOR ALL. Money & greed & bullyism is presently the ruling force in this country.

I think this 37 year old woman is brainwashed by faux media,...blinded by the right.

[scarletlib]

4. um, sounds like these people are in the wrong party

[tom_paine]

8. No, I'm guessing they are in the right party. Bushevik moles.

[fshrink]

9. Am I hearing "get over it"?

[itzamirakul]

10. Formerly worked for Lieberman?

That's all that I need to know along with the fact that she works for FOX and that she is "not defined" by the civil rights movement of the 1960s. Just more of the DLC's effort to keep control of the DNC by putting a younger face on their failing, Republican-lite policies. Also, an attempt to counter any effect set up by the efforts of MoveOn, PDA, DFA and other groups that have better ideas than the DLC. Watch how fast her organization will grow, helped by constant appearances on tv that will be denied to other groups that are more aggressive in their leftist leanings.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Me.]

12. Since The Issues of

Women's rights, civil rights and falsely started wars are still on the table the last time I looked, I wonder what party she is talking about? Perhaps it is the one Lieberman always seems to support? In fact the elitists are the ones who hold the power in Washington. Maybe she has her parties mixed up. or wait, maybe she'll change her tune when she can no longer get her hands on a birth control pill.

[Sterling]

15. Yes the irony of that comment.

Claiming it is us unwashed hippy's that are the elites when this skank and her ilk eat $200 lunches and drive hummers. Bitch.

[Richmond27]

50. That was...

so hilarious! LOL!!

[Zenlitened]

13. Uh, yeah sure. The leading voices of the new generation of Democrats....

... can be heard on Fox "News" and in the pages of the Wall Street Journal.

These people don't even try to be clever about their deceptions anymore, do they?

:silly:

[Atman]

20. So the young'uns just want to be Republicans...

They see all those cool Young Republican parties on campus and feel left out, perhaps. What a crock of shit this is! Fighting injustice is hard work, kids, to borrow a phrase from a certain dim-witted crook you seem to be fawning over. It is a constant, because the moment you let your guard down, people with questionable pasts and motive weasel their way into the game. You know, guys with Nazi-financier grandparents, or CIA Iran-Contra poppys with huge interests in global oil concerns. You may have heard of some of them.

Maybe these kids need to be focusing their energies on removing the OLD GUARD of the REPUBLICAN party, the fossils like Rumsfeld and Cheney, who've been part of this mess since the Young Dems were in Huggies. THEY are the problem. Stop drinking the god damn Kool-Aid, kids! "We" did nothing wrong by supporting civil rights and equal educational opportunities. EVERY time a republican administration gets into office the scandals -- REAL scandals involving killing, wars, illegal drug or arms trading -- real scandals break out, the economy is ripped a new one, and you think WE need to change?

Fuck off. The democratic party doesn't need some Fox-spouting pseudo Dem telling us what is wrong with us. We need people with COURAGE willing to recognize when to move off the sidelines and get into the fight.



1st Amendment Shoppe

[annabanana]

28. Gerstein called out....by REAL Democrats..

This is NOT the "new face" of any Democractic Party that I recognize.

[VegasWolf]

49. Exactly right! and if this trend of repuke lite continues there won't be

any party. At least not one that me and many of my
friends would be part of.

[American Tragedy]

43. I question whether a 37 year old woman really represents young liberals

I'm not saying that's old, necessarily; in politics it's fairly young, and perhaps she has some expertise in our age group.

Still, I hardly consider someone who's pushing forty to be one of my peers. That's practically a different generation.

[TankLV]

73. Wow - beautifully and forcefully said!

I have nothing to ad.

[henslee]

32. Time to snatch torch & wheel the fogies over to the window for a nice view

[RobinA]

35. Theoretically

I'm all for torch passing. But my problem with people like Ms. Powers, and she's not the only one, is that they seem to regard liberalism as a product that can be changed to get better sales. Liberalism is a philosophy, an approach, from which political positions arise, it isn't a set political positions. I'm not liberal because I'm anti-death penalty, I'm anti-death penalty because I'm liberal. You can't suddenly say, "Oops, being anti-death penalty isn't flyin' with the focus groups, we better take that out of the mix." We aren't selling Big Macs here. "If you can't beat'um, join'um" is not the answer. My worry about the post-Vietnam crowd is that the only things they seem to know about, recognize or respect is market philosophy.

[VegasWolf]

51. Very well said! Focus group on abortion down this week too. n/t

[Just Me]

55. Hence, they have no developed sense of their own humanity,...

,...let alone a world perspective or philosophy about fundamental human worth.

The natural course of these people seems to be that, unless/until they are knocked on their asses by harship(s) beyond their control,...they will NOT grow beyond their superficial perception of themselves, humanity and their role in the human element.

[trogdor]

78. One problem liberals have...

...is that they can't resist going after every third-rail issue that comes along. Gay marriage vs. civil unions is one of them. It affects a relatively small number of people, yet most people seem to be bothered by it. Before you all start flaming me, I think it's important, but not so important that we need to get our asses handed to us on paper plates over it again and again and again while the nation burns. First put out the fire, then worry about nice-to-haves like this, or better yet, leave it to the think tanks to deal with (isn't that what they're for?). In politics, you learn to compromise and prioritize, and do difficult things in appropriate-sized increments, otherwise, you scare the shit out of people and do a lot of losing, and end up getting ZERO (or less) of what you want. How long did it take for the goddam Republicans to convince people that they had their shit together (not that they actually did)?

There are a lot of people out there who you will NOT convince in a million years that your position, correct as it may be, is the way to go. That is a fact. Perhaps it's these third-rail-issue people who need to go form their own party, and see how things turn out. Oh yeah, I forgot; that's what Ralph Nader and the Greens did in 2000, and we're still suffering the consequences of that brilliant move, thank you very much. I guess we'll just have to learn work more as a team to figure these things out. We don't have a lot of time, so we'd better get us a really good leader who isn't afraid to step on a few toes.

Too many people here regard Liberalism not as a philosophy, but as a religion. That's dangerous, folks. People stop thinking when it comes to religion, and that gets people in trouble.

[eridani]

84. No one would give a good goddam about gay marriage--

--if the Dems would get back to their populist roots.

[4dsc]

36. Young turks suck!!

I have tried to listen to the young turks on AAR and their view suck to put it lightly.. One is pro-death penalty and other just ramble on and on and on... No wonder I cannot listen to them..

[wallybarron]

38. Take the torch

and run. I'm tired.

[American Tragedy]

39. I beg to differ, Kirstin Powers

As a 21 year old, I would argue that our lives and worldviews are defined by the struggles of our predecessors. It is embedded in the American collective unconsciousness. We carry on their memories via recorded history and the recounted experiences of our family.

Although I wasn't there in flesh, I can close my eyes and see my great-grandmother's shock when the stock market crashed, and virtually liquidated the assets of a formerly wealthy and independent elderly immigrant. I can see my grandfather's humiliation, when his father suddenly died and he had to sell vacuum cleaners door-to-door as a child just to survive and support his relatives, casting aside his academic and professional dreams forever. Most vividly, I see my father's horror, when he drew the number 31 in the 1969 draft lottery as a young war protester.

Those are just a few of their stories. All of them were and are liberal Democrats, and their crises were passed on to me in that context. We bear access to the knowledge and experiences of countless generations, and although I do wish we had more voice and influence, we should never forget or diminish the great defining moments of our history.

[freedom_to_read]

40. great post

We need more narratives like these.

[Just Me]

69. I admire your talented writing and your sense of humanity.

You obviously have a maturity beyond your years, American Tragedy.

The capacity to imagine life in anothers' shoes is an acquired skill that demands self-motivation, intelligence and strong moral underpinnings.

I admire you.

[w4rma]

41. A commentator for one of Murdoch's propaganda outlets? Who comes up

with this BS?

[Skidmore]

46. I agree, and I'm one of the "oldies". But I want the new blood

to come from further left.

[Megahurtz]

48. Oh no! Fox news?

doesn't anyone wonder if this isn't somekind of covert attempt by the Repukes to infilterate the Democratic Party? Listen to some of what is said.

It's sounds like bullshit anyway, the only change we need is to change the voting system so it can't be tampered with and will reflect the true numbers. Don't get sucked into the assumption that we just plain old lost.

I am one that welcomes a new and fresh change, moving forward is important. But with how sneaky the Repukes are, it wouldn't surprise me if this is what's really happening.

[Tight_rope]

53. Unfornately...I consider anything that comes from FOX (Faux) News

To be propaganda and all lies. :puke:

[sandnsea]

62. Reaganism brainwashing, ACK!!!

These people are too far to the right and have no clue what they're proposing this country give up. Talk about elitist and out of touch, sounds like they think the New Deal is "quaint". But notice they think the DNC is too liberal, so go figure that one out.

[Cocoa]

64. same old shit

get a few "young people" to make the same old shit look new.

[Mountainman]

70. It sounds like he is saying that to beat repubs you have to act like a

repub.

"muscle in foreign policy, more respect for religion"

What does that mean ? We should embrace war a the means to solve foreign policy problems> We should respect creationism, hate gays, outlaw abortion? No thanks. I'll stick to my '60's comrades.

[SKKY]

71. EVERYONE JUST FUCKING STOP...

...LISTENING TO THE PROPOGANDA AND START LOOKING AT THE FACTS! THERE IS NO FUCKING "MANDATE". THERE WAS NO "DECISIVE" VICTORY! THEY STOLE THE 2000 ELECTION AND JUST MAY HAVE STOLE THIS ONE AS WELL! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY! JUST BECAUSE "THEY" SAY IT'S BROKEN, DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, WE'RE BECOMING EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT US TO BECOME.

[Just Me]

75. Alrighty, there, Sailor.

Hey,...how's about a hug from a sweet gal, "Just Me"!!!

:hug:

[SKKY]

76. Thanks "Just Me". I feel a bit better now...

...I just needed to vent.

[THUNDER HANDS]

72. alright everyone, form a circle, face inward....ready...aim...FIRE!

[MisterP]

74. don't PNAC on me and tell me it's raining

[Misskittycat]

77. You don't have to be young to have good ideas.

Being progressive is a good idea - the problem is that progressives (including me) have hidden, inactive, complacent and apologetic since the late 60's.

It took this past election year to bring a lot of us hippies back to life politically. A lot of the energy in the grassroots campaign in 2004 came from people a lot older than 37.

I noticed at the local MoveOn house party held two weeks after the election that the average age appeared to be early '50's. There was no one under 40, yet it was a really spirited and innovative meeting.

We're not ready to be put out to pasture yet.

[Zhade]

79. Pass the torch to Young Republicans? That's what it sure SOUNDS like.

And they can kindly fuck off with their corporatist, enabling bullshit.

Anyone who willingly works for FAUX is NOT on our side.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. A commentator for Fox and a writer for the Wall Street Journal

Moles.

[abelenkpe]

81. well that's too bad

"We respect the struggles of the feminist movement, the civil rights movement and Vietnam, but (we) are not defined by those struggles," says Kirsten Powers, 37, a New York-based strategist and commentator for Fox News. "We want to take what is good in liberalism and make it better, and get rid of what is not working."

Are they kidding? They respect those movements? How? By completely avoiding all mention of them? Because I for one wish that democrats would make a larger effort to show support for women and for civil rights. So, it's OK to let women die defending this country in Iraq, but they can't be officially recognized as equals in our society at home? The fact that ERA couldn't pass years ago is just sad. And the civil rights movement doesn't get anywhere near the support it deserves in this country with all the lame attempts to do away with affirmative action. On top of that the democratic party needs more leaders who are willing to stand up to corporations and protect American consumers and workers.

Please tell me this woman will have nothing to do with shaping the democratic party of the future.