Amnesty: Iranian woman to be buried up to chest & stoned to death

[democratic]

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/15825.shtml

Iran: Woman to Be Buried Up to Chest and Stoned to Death In The Next Five Days

An Iranian woman charged with adultery faces death by stoning in the next five days after her death sentence was upheld by the Supreme Court last month. Her unnamed co-defendant is at risk of imminent execution by hanging. Amnesty International members are now writing urgent appeals to the Iranian authorities, calling for the execution to be stopped.

According to reports, Hajieh Esmailvand was sentenced to five years imprisonment, to be followed by execution by stoning, for adultery with an unnamed man who at the time was a 17 year old minor. Although the exact date of her arrest and trial are not known, it is reported that she has been imprisoned in the town of Jolfa, in the north west of Iran, since January 2000.

The Iranian Penal Code is very specific about the manner of execution and types of stones which should be used. Article 102 states that men will be buried up to their waists and women up to their breasts for the purpose of execution by stoning. Article 104 states, with reference to the penalty for adultery, that the stones used should “not be large enough to kill the person by one or two strikes, nor should they be so small that they could not be defined as stones”.

[oblivious]

1. Why can't they be more specific about their sources?

I mean, if they have a source, name it. But they don't even give the name of the newspaper. The only references in the amnesty article are listed below. I guess I'm suspicious because I don't want to believe that this is true. But really, they have a responsibility to prove their accusations.

According to reports... (para 2)

The news follows reports of.... (para 8)

According to a Tehran newspaper report of 28 November.. (para 8)

According to a report on 8 January 2004 in the Iran newspaper... (para 13)

[gottaB]

9. It should be a matter of public record

Supposedly the decree was published in the PMOI official paper. If you read Farsi or Arabic, you could try searching for it online: http://www.iran.mojahedin.org

On the front page they have a link to a section for announced executions.

This is an Amnesty action alert, so the standards for attribution are not as high as they would be for a report.

[daleo]

16. If the story has no source, I will not endorse

I think it is prudent to expect more than unnamed sources as well.

[emad]

26. It is naive in the extreme to think that Amnesty could survive or

protect those imperiled by being their conduits of information if its news sources were published on the open web.

You can always try phoning the charity to verify a story but they do not generally give out information that could lead to the arrest/detention/torture/execution of their stories.

Anyone who has ever spent any time in hellholes like Iran, Saudi, Sudan, North Korea, etc will know how hard it is for Amnesty to keep up its immeasurably valuable work in exposing human degredation and abuse.

Their annual reports carry informaiton about their need to protect their sources of information as well as the identities of their donors, many of whom have also been targeted for abuse and assassination in the past.

Edit: BTW: Not everything published/in the public domain can be accessed on the internet.

Most quality intelligence/security newsletters are subscription only and never published online.

[daleo]

74. I have given money to Amnesty in the past, and I appreciate their work

But any agency can be played or used by intelligence agencies, and they can have mixed motives or personnel with divided loyalties. So, I will continue to take unsourced material with a large grain of salt, regardless of where they come from. Particularly when the message supports current western propaganda. Unfortunately various Bush administrations have convinced me of the need for skepticism.

For example, I am intensely skeptical of the claim that Hussein murdered hundreds of thousands of people, at least in the usual sense of murder. I am not including casualties of wars he started for this purpose, as the Bushs would certainly be guilty of a similar number of murders, as would the majority of U.S. presidents of the last 50 years or so under that definition.

Yet, U.S. Aid claims that Amnesty agrees with this statement.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair on November 20 in London. The United Nations, the U.S. State Department, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch (HRW) all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades," said the group in a statement in May. "Many of these 'disappeared' are those whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq."

[oblivious]

98. I don't understand your motive in writing that.

Who could possibly be in danger if they name the actual newspaper. You say below they rarely do this, but a simple check of their reports on Iran shows what you say to be false. Examples follow. The newspaper report references in each case are in boldface.

Iran: Imminent execution

Eleven unnamed men are reportedly to be executed tomorrow, 17 January, in Qasr prison, Tehran. On 16 January, Qods newspaper reportedly stated...

Amnesty International is also concerned at press reports in Dowran-e Emruz (The Epoch of Today) on 7 January 2001 that the Supreme Court has upheld death sentences on...

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE130042001

Iran: Fear of imminent execution/fear of flogging

According a 5 May 2004 report in the daily newspaper Khorasan, Leyla M was sentenced to death on charges of "acts contrary to chastity....

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130482004?open&of=ENG-IRN

Iran: Imminent execution: Vahid (m), aged 16, and eight other juveniles

The Iranian daily newspaper Shargh states that Vahid was sentenced to death for the murder of his friend Mehdi, who allegedly tried to sexually abuse him..... According to Peyk-e Iran newspaper, the court judge who issued the original sentence was the person who put the noose around her head as she went to the gallows.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130502004?open&of=ENG-IRN

Iran: Imminent execution. Mandana Nik-khou Monfared (f), aged 25

According to the newspaper Hadeseh, in police custody she confessed, and was subsequently charged with premeditated murder...The newspaper Shargh published letter written by Mandana’s nine-year-old son to the Head of the Judiciary, Ayatollah Shahroudi, on 7 January.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130072004?open&of=ENG-IRN

So tell me why it is 'naive in the extreme' for me to expect them to mention their newspaper sources in this case. I think without knowing these original sources, this is just hearsay, and I think Amnesty workers are no more immune to propaganda than we on DU are.

I'm not saying this report is untrue, but I'm suspicious without sources.

[emad]

25. Amnesty is a charity that relies on anonymity to survive. Getting

workers into global hellholes like Iran or Saudi means considerable personal risk to the aid workers as well as to those who donate to keep Amnesty going.

Amnesty rarely quotes its sources online but if you contact them directly by phone they are sometimes able to give out direct sources.

The number of aid workers captured, imprisoned, tortured and executed by the secret police of countries under investigation was last put at over 60 for the period 1990-98. There have been no published figures for the indigenous support systems of locals who help keep the stream of information alive about human rights violations in regimes who regularly imrpison without trial and torture/execute their dissidents.

[rodeodance]

34. thanks--well said. Lets not cut down Amnesty Internatial for bringing

stories such as this to light.

[BUSHOUT]

94. I trust Amnesty. They don't have an "agenda" like the chimp squad. n/t

[petron]

2. that's

phucked up.

I pray to (insert supreme being here) that somehow, some way this human being is not treated like this. Ugg.

Please save us from certain doom oh (insert supreme being here)!!

[Dogmudgeon]

3. And Rushdoony's Loonies advocate the same thing

By "Rushdoony's Loonies," I mean the Christian Reconstructionists, the father of the movement being Rousas J. Rushdoony.

Rushdoony also coined the term "Dominionism," though that term has achieved wider circulation.

--p!

[mhr]

4. It Won't Be Long Till The RW'ers Plan To Stone Us For Being Liberals

Best buy that gun now so you can at least "take out" a few of them first.

Say it can't happen here, then consider this series of essays and the logical conclusion to the current RW memes.

"The Rise of Pseudo Fascism"
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004/11/holiday-break.html

[Pastiche423]

5. We must be going to war w/Iran pretty soon

The propaganda is heating up!

[Merlot]

10. That's what I was thinking, too

Sad as this story is, the timing is suspect.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

32. So Amnesty is causing us to go to war?

I don't think so. The truth is there are some barbarous mother fuckers out in the world.

[lumpy]

51. And Bush is among those

barbarous MFs.... Killing innocent victims in Iraq and Afghanistan, by bomb, bullet or agonizing shrapnel is just as barbarous.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

55. Horrible, I agree

But maybe less barbarous. I think stoning someone who did no wrong is pretty awful.

[Erika]

Yeah But Bushie Has Done A Good Job Of Wasting Our Troops

to the point he can't keep on declaring war at his whims. The troops aren't there.

[Erika]

11. Yeah But Bushie Has Done A Good Job Of Wasting Our Troops

to the point he can't keep on declaring war at his whims. The troops aren't there.

[QC]

27. Yeah, because Amnesty International is a tool of the Bushes.

:eyes:

[tx_dem41]

39. So, you think Amnesty International is lying? n/t

[Cocoa]

48. I don't think so

I would have thought this if this had appeared in the Washington Times, or if RW columnists were all crowing about this story.

In fact, I don't expect this to create a lot of RW outrage. I think Iraq may be headed toward an Iran-like future, and I think the RWers know it...

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oldhat]

6. Fucking appalling.

[Just Me]

7. WWMD?

"What Would Muhammad Do?"

This is simply ridiculous!!

Reform,...for crying out loud.

I must say this, however,...TO the so-called reforminists, for lack of a better term,...psychic punishment, short of death, is every bit as oppressive and damaging as physical punishment. Of course, you know that,...don't you.

[countmyvote4real]

8. Iran is the new Salem.

Fundies (on all platforms) can really stretch the envelope.

Don't look now, but here they come with a mandate.

[lebkuchen]

12. Don't our good friends the Saudis deal with uppity women in the same way?

?

[noahmijo]

13. Nobody was ever stoned under Saddam

Sharia Law was never implemented under Saddam. This is not in defense of Saddam but let's face the facts Saddam went to war with the fucking Ayatollahs of Iran from 1980-88.

We just won the war for the Islamic militant freaks who deal out this brutality AND do NOTHING to cover up their hatred of America.

So instead of putting some pressure on them we attack their enemy.

How can people who think this was sound judgement be intelligent enough to remember to breathe and blink?

[Erika]

15. Hussein voided Sharia Law

and one of his ministers was Christian. Hussein was secular and allowed all religiions. He was not an extreme Muslim nor were any 9/11 bombers Iraqi.

We had no reason to attack, invade, and occupy Iraq. The corporate globalists are the ones who found a reason led by W. He wants those big bucks in his donors pockets.

[Prodemsouth]

23. Look real close and you will there is an unholy alliance between all

Abraham based fundamentalist.

[NickB79]

24. EXACTLY!! We went into Iraq proclaiming freedom, but we bring them this

When Iraq falls to the fundamentalist Muslim movement currently gaining momentum worldwide, this will be the law of the land. How exactly did we bring the people of Iraq freedom?

[TO Kid]

82. Yeah, we all know what a nice guy Saddam was

And his sons are saints too, we all know what profound respect they had for women.

[NickB79]

96. Compared to this, they were much, much better

No one is trying to defend Saddam and his sons; it is widely agreed upon here that they were all very cruel, vile human beings. But since the fall of Saddam, crimes against women, such as rape and murder, have skyrocketted, and women there are on the verge of losing most of their rights to be treated as anything more than property. Just because Saddam was bad doesn't mean it couldn't be worse, and we have succeeded in demonstrating that.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

14. we must nuke Iran NOW !!

why wait?
:nuke:

[Erika]

17. Because Iranians are no threat to us?

Why are you so hungry to nuke an innocent populace? You come over here from the freeper site? Thought so.

Tell us how Iranians are a danger to us.

[Erika]

18. And Let's hope it beats the Bush lies

Otherwise, forget it. Bush has already expended our kids who hoped for a better future by enlisting.

[iamjoy]

30. They Are Not Innocent

if they willingly stone this woman. Not that it warrants nuclear weapons, but I have little respect for any populace capable of such brutatlity.

note I said willingly. Maybe they don't like their government either but don't have the freedom to speak out like we do (at least, for the time being).

[Tinoire]

38. That was sarcasm lol

So good it even fooled you ;) Auntee War is no freeper but yepper- that's what the connection is supposed to be for freepers.

The media once again beating the drums of war...

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

93. Thanks for explaining that Tinoire

not a freeper, just a little sarcasm :D
:nuke:

[Tinoire]

19. And so the hypocritical propaganda spreads

Let me guess, a story for conservative "democrats" :shrug: For some reason, particular groups just love any paragraph they can find in reports written by organizations they think are going to be worshipped by the Left when they think it might serve to further certain conservative aims.

Well they've got me. I'm outraged. Totally outraged! Let's start yet another war, kill gazillions more Ayerabs and steal their resources all for the sake of "progress"! :bounce: :bounce:

It's unfortunate we can't get the Pharisees in our country to examine the plank in our own eye!

Here's some more from Amnesty International my more conservative friends seem to constantly miss:

((Hurry!!! There's still time to stand up for respect of human rights right here IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!))


STOP CHILD EXECUTIONS!

International law prohibits the use of the death penalty for crimes committed by people younger than 18, yet some countries continue to execute child offenders or sentence them to death. As a step towards the total abolition of the death penalty around the world, Amnesty International has launched an international Stop Child Executions! campaign, calling for an end to one of the most heinous manifestations of the death penalty – its use against child offenders.


Nanon Williams and his mother. Nanon is on death row in Texas for a crime committed when he was 17 years old

Death Penalty

The death penalty is the ultimate, irreversible denial of human rights. By working towards the abolition of the death penalty worldwide, Amnesty International USA's Program to Abolish the Death Penalty looks to end the cycle of violence created by a system riddled with economic and racial bias and tainted by human error.

(snip)

JOIN EFFORTS TO STOP STATE SPONSORED KILLING IN THE UNITED STATES

Since 1977, over 900 people have been executed in the USA; there are currently around 3,500 men and women on death row across the country. Grassroots activists throughout the USA play an essential role in advocating against this human rights violation through monitoring cases, mobilizing around upcoming events, and lobbying for anti-death penalty legislation.

Updated Dec 18, 2004
Pending Executions in the USA

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/listpending.do
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/index.do


Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law.

Nineteen U.S. states allow for the execution of people who were 16 or 17 at the time of the crime: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and Virginia. Legislatively, the juvenile death penalty is still on the books in Missouri.

Since 1998, the United States has executed 13 juvenile offenders. Eight of these executions took place in the state of Texas. The rest of the world combined has carried out eight such executions. :wow: The United States accounts for four of the last seven known juvenile offender executions in the world.

As of July 2004, around 70 juvenile offenders sat on death rows throughout the United States; this constitutes approximately 2% of the total death row population. :wow:

In 2002, a Gallup survey found that 69 percent of Americans oppose capital punishment for juvenile offenders.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/juveniles/factsheet.html

[rodeodance]

35. thanks for this reminder (US needs to seriouly think about our own stance

on death penalites)!!!

[Osamasux]

37. If a 16-year-old gang member shoots a store clerk

in cold blood just for the hell of it, then I have no problem with capital punishment being applied. The same goes for the 17-year-old who shot my friend's son for refusing to hand over his winter coat. Or 17-year-old Maryland sniper John Lee Malvo. I've lived with the results of too many crimes and I put victim's rights above convicts rights.

[Tinoire]

40. You're right! Barbaric laws are good! Screw the civilized world!

We are the U.S.A.


USA!! USA!!!

Ignoring the f*cking plank in our own eyes, we will pull a Dr. Mengele on you to get rid of the speck of dust in yours. We will broadcast your speck of dust all over the world news vilifying you to justify our imperialist aims.

We will even send our children to do it (poor kids preferred) because our brave freeper and neoLiberal friends are too chickenshit to fit their own wars.

USA. USA!

[Osamasux]

43. Gee, what a well thought out reply.

That will go such a long way toward changing my position. "I shout, therefore I must be correct."

[Tinoire]

44. Lol

I have no interest in spinning my wheels trying to get you to change your position.

I know what battles are worth fighting and this isn't one of them. Sometimes you just toss the pearls and walk away, ridiculing the stalwarts.

When I want to have an intelligent conversation about such subjects with more conservative thinkers, there are other sites where I prefer to have them, not DU. DU is a place where I come to talk with like-minded people.

[Just Me]

79. A friend of mine was shot by an American,...

,...who was trying to steal my buddie's motorcycle.

Both my friend and I were/are home-grown "Americans".

The American predator was well-connected. He needed for nothing but had a way "right-wing" upbringing: you know, the chest-thumping, political survival types.

My friend,...was not,...politically connected. He was just a great human being.

My friend,...received the death penalty (having died from the gunshot wounds imposed upon his body).

The 23 year-old who committed a double felony was well-connected,...got four years in prison.

I didn't want that 23 year-old predator to die.

I wanted that man to live, without freedom, for the rest of his life because I know for a fact that life without "liberty" is cruel. I know for a fact that I would personally rather be dead than live a life without at least the possibility of "liberty".

I also know that "liberty" is merely a word,...an ideal which requires an environment entirely dependent upon humanity's investment in a consistently applied rule of law and order which makes "liberty" REAL.

What I don't know is whether or not death is a relief from life or not.

Do You?

[Tinoire]

88. I am a bit conflicted about the death penalty

but generally speaking against it especially for children.

Your point is interesting but I'm the wrong person to ask these days because I don't want to see perpetrators of evil get off scott free in this life-time. I want them to suffer and have plenty of time to either reform or repent before meeting their maker.

I don't know either for your last question. I wish I did.

I recall a case where a young man, recklessly driving under the influence, killed a young teenage girl. The parents of the girl pleaded that he not be sent to prison or punished in any other way than to write them a $1 check every week with the name of their daughter in the notes section. He thought he'd been let off easy until he had to start writing those checks.

Thought that was brilliant on the parents' part.

[blackspade]

106. I agree.

"I recall a case where a young man, recklessly driving under the influence, killed a young teenage girl. The parents of the girl pleaded that he not be sent to prison or punished in any other way than to write them a $1 check every week with the name of their daughter in the notes section. He thought he'd been let off easy until he had to start writing those checks."

What a great way to drive the point home.
The constant reminder of the Wrong he inflicted is an incredible way to punish him. Wow.

[CTLawGuy]

105. obviously your opinion is clouded by emotion

I'm sorry your friend's son was shot over his coat, but we shouldn't allow emotion to determine our criminal justice policy.

If my sister were raped or murdered I'd want the rapist/murderer burned at the stake or drawn and quartered. However, that doesn't mean we should actually do it.

Part of having a civilized, modernized society is that justice is based on rational principles not emotional vengeance.

If a 17 year old can't drink, buy cigarettes, get married, sign a contract, fight in the army, and live free of their parents, then they shouldn't be punished as adults.

[tx_dem41]

41. I must have missed the part of the Amnesty Int'l report where they...

asked the US to invade Iran. :eyes:

[Tinoire]

45. It's in the footer of the CliffNotes

Written in crayon by none other than Mr.

Iraq is a mess and I blame you. Sure, I ignored your instructions and just went ahead and did what I wanted to, and I guess we all know by now that my reasons were speciou… spacial… made up and there was no tie to al Qaeda and no weapons of mass distruction, but I’m sure we all agree with me that this was a necessary step to tide the stem of terrorist activities and nucular profileration in Korea and Iran.

But you guys totally didn’t get my back. And now look at the mess. It wasn’t me who didn’t go in there and do anything, it was all of you. And since I’m President and everyone should just do my bidding without asking me for reasons, clearly this is your fault.

Thank you. I’m George W. Bush, and I approve of me.

- Lance Arthur, "Bush to UN: The Cliff Notes"


Arresting developments
Bush to UN: The Cliff Notes
Jesus told me I'd be rich
Sweatshops now more profitable than ever!
What's the frequency, Dan?
Osama for Kerry
When it's okay to lie to God
Heart of the matter
Makes "The Anna Nicole Show" look sophisticated
Science from the Waffle House

www.glassdog.com/archives/2004/ 09/21/bush_to_un_the_cliff_notes.html

[tx_dem41]

50. Cute and snarky....

Now can you answer my question.:eyes:

[JohnLocke]

63. Are you saying Amnesty International is lying?

Are you saying Amnesty International is making this up? :eyes:

[Tinoire]

89. I don't believe that's what I said. What prompted you to ask that?

Do you not find these post and run threads a bit strange? Or the hoopla ever increasing respect the "let's bomb Iran" crowd suddenly has for groups like Amnesty International when certain paragraphs suit their purposes?

It's unfortunate they can't be bothered to read all of Amnesty's reports. That was my point. You know... "the mote in thine own eye" and that sort of thing.

Why is the Right-wing always so eager to clean up their neighbour's house when there's dog poop all over theirs?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emad]

28. Sharia Law is the greatest obstacle to the emancipation and

liberation of women in communities still living in medieval mindset regimes.

The worst outrage is the routine imprisonment, torture and execution of minors under the age of 16, where girls outnumber boys 3 to 1.

[riverwalker]

29. "thousands of Iraqis buried alive"

by US forces in Gulf War I in the infamous bulldozer incident. Cheney at the time, refused to disclose the location, as required by the "quaint" Geneva protocols.

http://jeff.paterson.net/aw/aw4_buried_alive.htm

[NNN0LHI]

31. It would be nice if the USA were to abolish its own death penalty so...

...we could claim the high ground here. But no. The bloodthirsty people just have to have their pound of flesh. And it doesn't make no difference to them whether they kill the right person or not either. They just got to kill someone. Sick fucks.

Don

[rodeodance]

33. BushCo USES reports such as these to say --"Look how cruel they are"

What is wrong and cruel is how BushCo uses horrow stories such as these--(for example--the gasing of the Iraqi)--to pump up his own wishes and agenda. The Islamic penal code is cruel and Amnesty is trying to expose the horrow stories--but in the process, people like Bush and his inklings and the Right and the right media use them to push their own agenda. It is a catch 22 and many people don't get it!!

[TO Kid]

83. They did

I haven't heard of any American courts handing out the death penalty for adultery, apostacy or being a rape victim. Have you?

[NNN0LHI]

85. You are right. We just give the death penalty to children. You proud? n/t

[Flammable Materials]

36. PROTECTING THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE.

Ah-yup.

[VegasWolf]

47. By leaving no stone unturned. n/t

[salin]

42. Frighteningly horrific.

for those suggesting this is "propoganda" - give it a break. Amnesty is not a "tool." They criticize US policies loudly as well.

The tragic thing, is the thought - that this may be the form of government that takes over in Iraq - based on bushies "liberation" of the country. Great goodness - instead of spreading democracy we may be spreading this kind of abominable system.

Just because the neocons are stepping up their propoganda against Iran (and they indeed are doing so)- doesn't mean that instances of horror - due to extremist fundamentalists - aren't true.

[Tinoire]

46. No accused "Amnesty " of being a tool.

Re-read the posts. The accusations are of certain groups cherry-picking tiny paragraphs and propping up Amnesty only when it suits their needs, totally ignoring the rest.

[VegasWolf]

49. They take the Koran literally, like the fundies here take the bible.n/t

[TO Kid]

92. So where in the Bible

Does the Bible mandate the death penalty for those you convert to other faiths? Does the Bible tell you not to befriend people of other faiths? Does the Bible urge you to kill anybody who refuses to convert to your faith? Did Jesus ever say that piracy is a good thing?

[SOS]

52. Meanwhile....

"In ethnic minority areas where troops wage war on indigenous groups, women are targeted by soldiers of the Military Junta for gang-rape, torture, and then murder. Pregnant and nursing mothers become forced labourers: carrying supplies, building roads, railways or army barracks."

Why doesn't anyone care about the women of Burma?

[Tinoire]

54. No oil. Too far from our weapons dump in the Middle East. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

53. I hope they use small stones like the US installed Afghan government does

http://www.nypress.com/15/3/news&columns/wildjustice.cfm

<snip>Shortly before the turn of the year Justice Minister Karimi declared Afghanistan’s new government would still impose Sharia Islamic law on its people, but with less harshness. The details were fleshed out by Judge Ahamat Ullha Zarif, who told the French news agency Agence France Presse that public executions and amputations will continue, but there will be changes: "For example, the Taliban used to hang the victim’s body in public for four days. We will only hang the body for a short time, say 15 minutes." Very Warholian.

Kabul’s sports stadium, financed by the International Monetary Fund, was where the Taliban used to carry out public executions and amputations every Friday. No longer. "The stadium is for sports. We will find a new place for public executions," says Judge Zarif.

Judge Zarif makes it clear that the ultimate penalty will remain in force for adulterers, both male and female. They would still be stoned to death, Zarif told the French news agency, "but we will use only small stones."

Now there’s progress!

more

[grumpy old fart]

62. What's the date on this story anyway?

The references in the story seem to indicate that it's at least a year old...

[NNN0LHI]

72. January 8, 2002. Right after the US invaded and put them in charge

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/01/Laden/Sharia.html

I can remember posting several stories here on LBN from several wire services when this was decision was declared.

Don

[northzax]

56. why is this any of our business?

it is hardly a secret that adultery is a capital offense in Iran, this woman knew it well and still committed adultery. sure, from some perspectives, the punishment may be harsh, but it is the law, and has been for 30 years.

Of course, you'd think the death penalty would be a big deterrent to adultery, so she has to be executed as an example. otherwise why have the law at all? notice the male is subject ot execution for the same crime.

and I don't really see that this is any more barbaric of a method of execution that lethal injection. In fact, I think this is a better form of execution. the community is executing this woman for violating their laws, and they themselves are involved, much better than our sterile 'modern' executions. If the community thinks someone should die for their crimes, then the community then the community should be doing the executing, not a hired doctor behind prison walls. plus, it's a better deterrent to watch the death happening.

And finally, (this is completely serious) can someone explain why execution for one crime is better or worse than execution for another crime in a different culture? Why is this worse than executing Scott Peterson? This woman knew the only punishment if she was cuaght was death by stoning, Peterson thought he'd get life in prison, who lives under the more capricious system? one has a perfectly laid out system of punishment, the other one has punishment subject to whether or not someone thought you 'showed enough emotion'

[geek tragedy]

57. Some people believe in HUMAN rights, not European rights and

American rights.

You obviously disagree.

[northzax]

61. sure, but I live in a society (the united states)

that uses execution as a form of punishment. where do I get off telling another culture that they cannot use the same form of punishment? I don't get it.

How can I complain that Iran is executing adults when I live in a country that executes children?

[grumpy old fart]

65. You can complain about BOTH situations

If you truly care, and are not just being deliberately obtuse.

[northzax]

70. sure, but the complaints I have seen

are euro-centric complaints. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who favour the death penalty for certain acts and not others. either favour it, or not. you are consistent on this, not everyone is.

[geek tragedy]

99. So long as you speak out against injustice here, there's no reason

to speak out against it there.

[grumpy old fart]

58. You're Serious?

We are talking about HUMAN RIGHTS. That's why I care that people are killed for whatever crime. The fact that some society may condone stoning for say, littering, doesn't make it right. Geez.

[northzax]

66. how do I reconcile living in a society

that uses the death penalty with telling another society that they cannot be trusted to use the same punishment?

Scott Petersen is being executing because he committed adultery. If he hadn't been screwing that amber woman, he would not be on death row, even if he had done the crime he was convicted for.

I can't complain about my neighbor's dirty laundry until I clean my own.

[grumpy old fart]

68. That's just stupid......

so, since chimp decides to go to war, I can't protest that war?????

[northzax]

75. no, chimp can't complain

bout Russia invading Checnya when he's leading an invasion of Iraq.

you can't not protest the US war in Iraq and protest the Russian invasion of Chechnya. you have to be consistent. you seem to be, few people are.

[grumpy old fart]

77. If your point is that we've fucked up our moral position in the World

I couldn't agree more.

[QC]

81. According to your reasoning, no one can ever speak out

against any injustice, since pretty much all injustices exist in all societies. The end result is that the good silence themselves while the evil run amok. Does that please you?

[JohnLocke]

60. Are you serious? Capital punishment for adultery?

"It is hardly a secret that adultery is a capital offense in Iran, this woman knew it well and still committed adultery. sure, from some perspectives, the punishment may be harsh, but it is the law, and has been for 30 years...it's a better deterrent to watch the death happening"

:wow:
Where am I? Free Republic or DU?

[northzax]

64. oh, so you are the arbitrator of who should be executed?

why not capital punishment for adulutery? no one is forced to commit adultery, say to feed their children, it is a selffish act. the rules are clear and apply equally to everyone. you get caught committing adultery, you will be stoned. why is that less reasonable that the capricious application of the death penatly in the US, based on the whim of the prosecutor and how much 12 people like you?

Why not the death penalty for adultery? a consenting adult breaks the law, knowing the punishment, then it doesn't matter what that punishment is, as long as it applies to everyone who is convicted of this crime.

[grumpy old fart]

67. So if everyone agrees that it's ok to gas all who sneeze in public.....

so be it?

[northzax]

71. a sneeze is an involuntary act

is adultery also an involuntary act?

[grumpy old fart]

78. Can be...depends on the girl......;)

if you'll excuse a moment of levity....

[northzax]

80. well sure, but that's why there are loopholes for the guys

the girl on the other hand should have more control. unless, of course, it's Brad Pitt. :evilgrin:

[TO Kid]

91. So getting raped is "voluntary"?

They execute rape victims, therefore you must agree that if a man rapes a woman it's because she wants it?

[northzax]

104. er, as I explained below

Sharia law calls for the execution of rapists, not victims. In pratical application, this is abused and needs to be corrected. But the law itself specifices punishment for the rapist, not the victim.

In certain, tragic cases, married women have been executed for adultery becasue they were victims of rape and could not prove they were raped and not consenting to the act. In this case, the man who raped should also be executed, as he committed adultery.

I still ask you how we can execute people and complain that others do the same thing?

[JohnLocke]

73. "Why not the death penalty for adultery?"

:wow:

[northzax]

76. yes, why niot?

why use the death penatly for some crimes and not others?

what if this woman had contracted HIV and then given it to her husband? acceptable to give her the death penalty then? she in essence killed someone. So did the person she had an affair with.

look, as long as the rules are clearly posted, in advance and apply equallt to everyone and do not punish someone for involuntary acts or carelessness you have to choose to commit adulutery, after all, it's rarely an 'accident' then what's the problem?

[TO Kid]

86. Then you must approve the killing of rape victims

After all, it's clearly posted in Sharia that it's illegal be be a victim of rape, therefore by your rationale they deserve it.

[northzax]

102. see, there's a difference between voluntary and involuntary acts

commiting adultery is a voluntary act. being the victim of rape, or any other crime, is most certainly not. We may disagree with the burden of proof for rape (sharia law requires four male witnesses, after all) but the penalty for rape is well spelled out (180 lashes or, if the woman is married, death, since it is then adultery) there is no penalty for the victim. Of course, in practical application, this law leads to abuse (much as our system does)

please provide me a citation from Sharia law that specifies that it is a crime to be a victim. seriously, not in the application as currently presented, but in the text of the law. all laws are applied unfairly, but the punishment for those convicted of being rapists under sharia law is much more stringent that in western law. 180 lashes is basically tantamount to death, it is almost unsurvivable.

Again, the application of the law, and the fact that the burden of proof is on the victim (And too high) are troubling and unfair, no doubt. but the law clearly states the punishment for rape, and it is a strict on for the rapist, not the victim.

[Sub Zero]

90. This moral bankruptcy

is perhaps the worst I have seen since reading interviews with Nazis.

Somehow I have a feeling if we were around during WW2 you'd say it's the Jews fault they were getting gassed - after all, it's the law not to be Jewish and they knew it.

[TO Kid]

84. Postmodernism at its finest

That poster's thinking is a perfect example of postmodernism. Since all cultures are equally valid, then it's OK to kill a rape victim or an adulter if their culture sanctions it. It's really an excuse for racism- he's saying the woman deserves to die because her culture does not share our values.

[northzax]

103. In the united states, it is legal to execute a person

for a crime committed while a child (as young as 14) In the united states at 14, you can't live on your own, you can't make your own decisions about health care, education or even hold a full time job. You can't drive, vote or drink, but you can be executed.

and no one deserves to be executed. I do not believe the state should kill it's citizens except as a military neccesity (I know, a can of worms, but in times of war, it can be neccesary to use deadly force against individuals under very specific cirsumstances) You live in an pay taxes to a government that has approved the execution of children as vengance, and you dare criticise someone else for choosing to execute adults?

I frankly think it's the worst kind of colonial patronising to say "well, sure, we get to execute people for doing bad things, but you can'tbe trusted to make that decision for yourself, wedon't think the crimes you use the death penalty for are acceptable"

so I guessz 'our culture', one that executes children, is better than 'their culture' which only executes adults.

let me give you some numbers, also from Amnesty:
in 2003, there were 1,146 government sponsored executions in the world.
the PRC executed 726 people.
Iran executed 108
the US executed 65
Vietnam executed 64
Saudi Arabia executed 56

78 states retain the death penalty. 2 are what we would consider 'western-style liberal democracies' the United States and Japan.

Seven states allow the execution of juveiles. the US, PRC, Dem. rep. of Congo, Yemn, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Nigeria.

Some company we keep, huh? and we dare criticize the others on this list for doing the exact same thing?

[Skittles]

87. I have to tell you northzax

that is some SICK thinking.

[Chicago Democrat]

69. Crime and punishment....and propaganda.....

China executes 5000 people per year that's like 15 per day.
We killed 100,000 Iraqis in the last 18 months.
Death penalty for child molestation, pretty rough by any standard. How many stonings per year happen in Iran? Here's a paragraph from the article: 'Amnesty International is aware of at least one case in which a sentence of execution by stoning has reportedly been issued this year.'

So this happened maybe once before in 2004....Can you understand why, EVEN THO THIS IS HORRIBLE, I think this story is US propaganda.

Looks like PsyOps to me.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eridani]

97. There are Muslims fighting against stoning

http://www.mostmerciful.com/stoning-is-shirk.htm

Support Muslims who are trying to reform their practices, and stop using them as justification for mass murder and unlawful war.

http://www.peaceheroes.com/PeaceHeroes/shirinebadi.htm

As an attorney, she represented families of writers and intellectuals killed in 1999 and 2000, and worked to expose conspirators behind an attack by pro-clergy assailants on students at Tehran University in 1999. Ebadi, who was jailed for three weeks in 2000, has been a forceful advocate for women, children and those on the margins of society. She turned her law office into a base for rights crusades and assaults on the establishment on issues such a persecution of dissidents and now-rare punishments such as stoning and flogging for social offenses. She has taken cases dealing with domestic abuse and the rights of street children. Her writings have touched on rights for refugees, women and child laborers.

Ebadi has argued for a new interpretation of Islamic law that embraces democracy and equality before the law. "The time of revolutions is finished," Ebadi was quoted in Le Monde. "The Islamic republic cannot continue if it does not evolve. Not only within the government, but in the whole country, we want reforms to be pursued in a serious and radical manner." Those reforms, she said, include ending the use of harsh Islamic punishments such as amputations and stonings and allowing free elections of legislators.

[oblivious]

100. The pressure is obviously having an effect and AI deserves credit.

But another reason I'm still suspicious of this article is that it is the same one that popped up recently on the anti-Iran propaganda site 'Iranfocus':

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1032432#1034175

And Iranmania has reported that Iran has suspended the stoning sentence due to European pressure.

Iran revokes woman's stoning

In the case of adultery, the judge can decide on death by stoning, although no such case has been officially reported for more than a year and the sentence has apparently been suspended since the end of 2002 under pressure from the West, particularly European states.

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?A..

[jellybelly]

101. stoning video

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

very graphic but blurry video of a stoning. it does happen. By the way, it's an anti-islam website so they are using this torture as propaganda, but the video is real. I don't want to seem biased, watch if you want.