Michael Jackson hosts 200 children at Neverland party

[MaineDem]

Hope this isn't a dupe. I searched but I may have missed it.

LOS OLIVOS, Calif., Dec. 17 — Christmas came early for some 200 children who got to play at Michael Jackson's amusement park and meet Santa Claus.

''I hope you have a wonderful day. Merry Christmas. I love you,'' the pop singer called out to the children Friday from the driveway of his estate.

Jackson, who faces trial next year on child molestation charges, appeared happy during the few minutes he spoke to the arriving throng.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/ap12-17-163402.asp?t=apnew&vts=121820040530

He's allowed to have contact with children???

[Maddy McCall]

1. At least 200 selfish parents...

Sorry, I've been piss-poor broke, but nothing in me would allow my son to spend a second with Jackson, even if 1,000 people were present.

[underpants]

6. I'm with you on that one

No freakin' way would I let that happen.

[LiberalinNC]

2. What the hell is wrong w/ these parents?

Don't they know what this man has been accused of? Don't they know that he has paid off kids and their families for keeping their traps shut?

There is NO amount of money that would convince me having my kids hang out w/ this creep was a good thing! SICK!

[Laughing Mirror]

3. Of course the parents know what he's been accused of

But there they are, out of morbid curiosity, wondering how they can get a few million out of him too without anything really actually happening.

[KansDem]

4. What? Nap time, again? (eom)

on edit: Sorry, this was meant for the original post

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Zanti Regent]

28. It's Easy Money

Bet the odds of getting a payoff from Mikey are a lot lower than hitting the California Lottery!

[Tomee450]

31. Oh so now

a person only accused of a crime is automatically assumed to be guilty? How would you feel if you or one of your relatives were accused of a crime and people started treating you like a criminal? Are we no longer to believe in trials? Is it now vigilante justice? There have been so many black men who have been accused and convicted of crimes only later discovered to be entirely innocent. This hatred of Jackson is so unseemly in light of his long history of trying to help children. I would like to seem him tried in a court of law. People should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If the case is so strong, why do the authorities need to leak information? It's to poison the jury pool making jurors more inclined to believe the prosecutor's case.

[LiberalinNC]

43. He's paid off too many people for me to believe he's "innocent".

Something funny is going on in that house of his. Believe me, I'm the first to say that people are unjustly accused of something they most likely didn't do. (Check out this article in my paper, http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1944568p-8304499c.html this makes me really mad!)

I'm just saying, why would any parent want to put their child at risk, especially since he has paid off many families to keep their mouths shut! As a mother I would not let any of my children near that man.

[Tomee450]

59. How do you know all of this?

I don't think Jackson has been tried for anything, only accused. Do you believe everything you read in the media? Many terrible things were said of Bill Clinton that were untrue. He was even accused of murder, of fathering a black out of wedlock child. All of the accusations were false. Many celebrities settle out of court. It is a common practice. The settlement does not mean they are guilty. I've heard several lawyers say celebrities often settle because they feel the continued publicity will adversely affect their careers, not because they are actually guilty of anything.

[Enraged_Ape]

45. He readily, eagerly confesses to sleeping with other people's kids

He's also been shown to be a danger to himself (self-mutilation) and to his children (baby dangling). And hosting a party for 200 kids after you have been indicted for child molestation carries with it the additional indictment of being the stupidest motherfucker on Earth.

[Tomee450]

60. Jackson hosting the event

does not mean he actually spent time with the children.
As far as being a danger to himself, I have not seen any evidence of that. And there is no evidence that he has endangered his children. Social workers visited his home and found no evidence to support your assertions. Furthermore, most people who have been around Jackson and his children have reported that he is a good, loving father. And perhaps he is hosting a party for children because he is a decent person wanting to help the less fortunate. The parents, unlike some on this board, may believe that he is not guilty of the crime for which he is accused and not afraid to have him around their children. Some people want Jackson, who proclaims his innocence, to behave as if he guilty.

[DoNotRefill]

67. "vigilante justice"?????

Sorry, but keeping your kids away from an accused pedophile is no more "vigilante justice" than refusing to let your kids catch a ride with a repeat drunk driver that's coming home from a bar.

Now if they went and stoned him to death, THAT would be vigilante justice. That's not what's going on here. And ANY parent that turned their child over to Jackson for "safekeeping" should lose custody of the child for reckless endangerment.

[Tomee450]

87. I know what vigilante justice

In the past blacks were vilified just as Jackson is and the result was vigilante justice. We are now trying people in the media, calling them criminals just because they have been accused. Plenty of people have been accused of crimes they never committed. You know nothing about this case other than what is reported in a very biased news media. As far as parents turning their children over to Jackson for safe keeping, where did you read that. It was a gathering of two hundred children. I have read nothing to indicate that Jackson was alone with any of them. People dislike Jackson for their own reasons and seize every opportunity to vilify him. Just because a person is different does not means he is a child molester.

[Ravenseye]

81. Would you let your kids go?

I mean....you have a couple of kids, say ages 8 and 9, and you get an invitation to go to a party for children at the house of 'John Smith'.

Now John Smith has been all over the papers for years. He was never convicted of anything, but there had been a number of children over the past decade that had accused John Smith of molesting them. There had been plenty of circumstantial evidence in addition to the word of the children, but nobody ever found out any of the actual evidence because it was sealed when John Smith paid each child millions of dollars.

Now just in the past year it's happening again. More accusations on John Smith, and some really twisted stories. John Smith appears on television with the boy in question, holding hands, putting his arm around him, and acting like he has very questionable judgement. Not a crime in and of itself, but a person who doesn't understand simple boundaries probably doesn't understand complex ones.

John Smith now wants your kids to come over to his house. He's never actually be convicted of anything. Do you let your kids go?

[Tomee450]

88. First, I do not believe that

Jackson is a child molester. No, I would not allow my children to go to his home to be alone with him simply on a chance that I might be wrong. However, since I do not believe that Jackson molests children, I would allow them to be part of a large gathering. You have judged a man that you do not know based on reports of people with grudges and a biased media. How would you feel if you were falsely accused of a crime? You make quite a few assumptions based on what you think you have seen. I have seen men hug children who absolutely were not pedophiles. People like to read a lot into Michael's behavior because he seems different. Many people behave oddly but that does not mean they have a tendency to abuse children. Many of the people who have been charged with child abuse had been considered outstanding members of the community. They never behaved in an inappropriate manner in public and people were stunned when they were discovered to be molesters.

[Historic NY]

7. hope he kept his DNA where it belongs...............n/t

[Florida_Geek]

8. Gee DU has a lot of Repugs on it.

Myself I will not believe FOX news about MJ, but will wait to see what come out in Court by both sides.

[LostinVA]

9. Who's a Rethug???

I'm a proud Democratic Socialist. I also think the odds are Jackson is guilty of something, be it out-and-out molestation or child endangerment. We WILL find out in the courts. But, until then, it is horrible judgement on his part to host a party for children while he's up on child molestation charges. It seems very much a f*ck you to everyone, and I guarantee he ignored legal advice NOT to have the party. Remember, after the first accusations a decade ago, Johnnie Cochrane told Jackson to watch the propriety of the things he did. You know, like average joes like us have to.

If I had a neighbor who was up for trial on these charges, and he had the arrogance to have a big Christmas party for kids in his backyard, I'd be like, uh-oh... Actually, that wouldn't happen, because my neighbor would be a poor guy making about $20,000 a year and would have been tried and thrown into prison two months after his arrest.

Remember, Jackson HAS been treated differently by the government because he is a celebrity. He's been treated better.

[Prodemsouth]

12. Don't worry about that comment. DU also has its share of people that

believe any weirdo, especially anyone who exhibits effeminate behavior can do no wrong.

[ldf]

75. yeah, du numbers are through the roof

so much easier for plants to come here, get a lot of posts, and make us look like complete idiots.

even worse, make us look just like republicans.

:grr:

[TheWraith]

19. And you justify that belief how?

Because the Christian Reconstructionist DA told you so? Because the DA has been flaunting the gag rules by circulating unsubstantiated rumors? Because the accuser's mother, who has a history of mental illness, told you so? Or is it just the principle of guilty until proven innocent?

[keopeli]

29. Boy, you seem delusional!

Free country. Presumed innocence. Liable disqualifications for celebrities. Attack dog propogandized militaristic media influenced prosecution.

Are you awake, or just living in Bush*'s State of Fear?

Michael, whom I met briefly some years ago, is a nice guy with a very different life than you or me.

Let him defend himself, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

When big companies settle lawsuits, we say they're just concerned about the cost. When MJ does it, he must have something to hide, eh?

Wanna be a TRUE liberal?

First, you must wake up from your dreamworld.

CitizenAtLarge

[oldcoot]

36. Worshiping Celebrities

I remember when Mike Tyson moved to Southern Nevada, there were all of these people driving by his house and talking about how cool it was to have a sports figure living so close to them. Tyson was already a convicted sex offender at this point. I wonder how many of these same people would have been so excited to have Tyson as a neighbor if he had been a janitor. I think that people wrongly assume that they know someone just because they see that person on television or at a concert.

Michael Jackson may very well be innocent and the prosecutor may be on a witch hunt. If that is the case, then Jackson deserves to be acquitted and the prosecutor deserves to lose his job. However, those parents who do not know Jackson personally should treat him with the same amount of caution as they would treat any other stranger.

[NicoleM]

10. Really?

You would let your kid hang out with an accused child molester?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

13. Believe what you want

But any parent who lets their kids play with an accused child molestor should have those children taken away by saner souls.

[keopeli]

30. And merry xmas to you too. Kids must learn that just because Bush*

or his henchmen say something is true, that does NOT make it true. In fact, it decreases the odds of something being true when a Bush*ie says it.

I'm stunned anyone would say this about someone who is classified as 'accused' about anything.

Let's try something.

Let's say that I accuse you, whoever you are, of being a murderer and traitor, and someday I'll prove it by golly!!!!!!

Now, anyone who let's their kids within 100 yards of you deserves to have their kids taken away! And, if I can manage to get some media station to think they'll make money by repeating my thoughts, the whole WORLD will hate you!

Cool, huh? You have very interesting rules to guide you.

And a merry, merry christmas to all you loving, caring people!

Warm fuzzies.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

51. He has been charged criminally

And prosecutors would not do so without sufficient evidence to CONSIDER he might be guilty.

That's enough to keep your children away and safe.

Parents shouldn't take risks with their children's safety. You can't afford the benefit of the doubt.

Merry Christmas!

[Laughing Mirror]

56. The Smoking Gun debunked the so-called evidence more than 1 year ago

But this seems to be the case that won't go away. Wonder why?

Where's the evidence, by the way? If you live in a country where prosecutors do not trump up criminal charges without sufficient evidence I would like to know where it is. May I apply for a visa to visit? I promise I won't stay long.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dcfsmemo1.html

[TheWraith]

57. Not neccessarily.

"And prosecutors would not do so without sufficient evidence to CONSIDER he might be guilty."

You know that the DA is a Christian Reconstructionist, right?

[Tomee450]

62. Oh please

I just can't believe that someone would say that a black man would not be charged criminally without "sufficient evidence to consider that he might be guilty." All over this country black people are sent to prison on the flimsiest evidence. A few years ago, a black man with no criminal record, was convicted and sent to prison even though there were people who could prove he was far away from the scene when the robbery occurred. He was released only after 60 Minutes highlighted the case. They interviewed wittinesses who supported the defendant. Despite that fact, the prosecutor did not want to reopen the case preferring to let a totally innocent black man rot in prison. Your statement just boggles the mind.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

66. Consider his past

Consider the other cases that just went away because of money. Again, do you think any sane parent should let him play with their children?

Michael is a freak plain and simple. Is he a child molestor? Who knows? But I know he won't ever get near my children.

[Laughing Mirror]

85. You have every right to keep your kid away from somebody

you are convinced is a child molestor, or worse, a freak.

By the same token, you must also respect the right of other sane parents who may not be convinced the man is a freak or child molestor, and therefore have no problem taking their children to his amusement park--that IS why he built the place to begin with I suppose, for children to enjoy. And then, for the parent that doesn't believe he's a child molestor or, if he's a freak, doesn't care, there's always the chance of catching a glimpse of the dangerous freak himself, held back at a sufficient non-toxic remove, of course, from the crowds.

It is not for you or I to tell any sane parent how their children must play. Only insane people would do that.

[Tomee450]

89. What other cases?

To my knowledge, there has been just one previous case which was settled out of course. Settling out of court is a common practice and does not mean a person was guilty. I heard an attorney say that celebrities are often targeted because they know the accuser will be more than likely to settle out of court to prevent further damage to his career. As far a Jackson being a freak, it's too bad that you would make such a comment about someone you don't know.

[Ravenseye]

82. It Doesn't Work That Way

If you were to go to the police station a few blocks from me and say 'Hey....That guy there, he's a traitor and a murderer'

They'd say, 'How's that?'

You'd say, 'Uh...cause....he is! He killed people! He's a traitor!'

They'd say, 'Uh huh. Who'd he kill? How is he a traitor?'

...

The local cops aren't gonna suddenly put on brown shirts and red armbands in a month. They don't have time to deal with bullshit, they have actual crime to deal with. If you go in and ask for directions they'll give it to you, if you go in and your arm is broken they'l help get you to the hosptial, if you go in screaming 'traitor!' they'll essentially laugh you out of the building, if not arrest you.

You know what though? Lets say you went in and accused me of molesting your child, which I had nothing to do with. They raid my house and find no evidence of any wrongdoing. They interview me and my family and friends, and find allibi's. They give me a psych profile and show I"m not capable of it. Let's say we get through this and they still press charges.

I wouldn't hold a party for 200 kids at my house. <-That's a period.

If anything, whether or not he even showed up, just doing that show's such an extreme lack of judgement, that I'd say that Michael Jackson is capable of absolutely anything, including breaking taboo's and molesting children. I have no evidence of it, and I'm not saying throw him in jail without a fair trial. I'm just saying that there is no way in hell a sane person would send their kids anywhere near his place.

[Tomee450]

91. So now any person who shows

lack of judgment is to be assumed capable of child molestation? Quite a stretch. So based on that logic you must have believed all the false allegations against Bill Clinton because his judgment was not at its best in having an affair.

[Melodybe]

18. "I'm done with Michael!"

"We loved Michael so much we let the first kid slide!"

I agree with Chris Rock.

[Tomee450]

32. Well

a lot of people disagree with Chris Rock. That statement was unfair. He knows nothing about what happened in that first case other than what he read in the media, a media which does not like Jackson because of his sometimes odd behavior.

[Maddy McCall]

27. My parenting is not a court of law.

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the court system and jury trials.

Sorry, but I'm a parent. I would never put my ideological purity ahead of my son's well-being. Suspicion is a good enough reason for me to keep my son away from alleged pedophiles.

[oldcoot]

35. Exactly

While I believe that Michael Jackson deserves a fair trial, I also believe that parents have a responsibility to protect their children. While they should not interfere with Jackson's right to a fair trial, they should use some common sense. Even if Jackson is innocent, the Neverland Ranch might not be the safest place because of the publicity surrounding this case. There are other amusement parks for parents to take their kids to.

[Ravenseye]

83. Bingo

...a was his name-o.

[jellybelly]

74. hmm...

I thought Fox news was pro-Jackson. Geraldo loves him.

[katinmn]

11. Unbelievable

Must be die-hard fans sending their kids

[JMS825]

14. Innocent until Proven Guilty

Let me start by saying I believe MJ is innocent. I come to this conclusion simply because he has been blackmailed but the parnets of the first kid and by the parents of this kid. If my kid told me MJ molested him Id be on trial for Murder instead the parents of both kids requested money. The First kid's dad wanted $1 million so he can finish his movie "Robinhood Men In Tights" when MJ refused to pay he went to the police. Later MJ settled but paying the boy $10 million and the mom and dad $1 million each (not sure why parents get paid for a kids misfortune" Now this kid is dying from cancer (I believe thats what it is) the mother asked for $2 million for treatments and MJ refused then all of the sudden the kid tells his shrink he was molested after the shrink hypnotised the kid. Not to mention this lady let her kid stay with MJ even after he was accused of molestation in the first place, sounds like a set up to me and MJ is to mentally undeveloped to know he is being scammed. Im sorry money wouldnt be my concern when my kid is molested.

[Prodemsouth]

16. Not every parent is like you- it is not hard for me to believe he is

guility in fact i believe he is guilty most pedophiles have a probelm with sexual expression. From his membership in J Witness to his "gender bending" to his heavy use of plastic surgery this shows a man at odds with himself.

[Tomee450]

34. Being different

or odd with oneself does not make one a pedophile. Many child molesters have been people one would never believe would engage in such acts. Just because a person is different does not mean he is inclined to be a criminal.

[Cronus Protagonist]

38. Most child molestors are called "Uncle Billy"

Or just "uncle" - most molest females and most are family members. MJ doesn't fit the profile well - he seems neurotic and underdeveloped - he may even think of himself as a child, a peer to the children.

That is not an argument for his innocence, just a recognition of a possibility that might not be obvious to some.




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[Florida_Geek]

79. Hey my name is Bill

:evilgrin:

[Cronus Protagonist]

84. Sorry

Nothing personal intended. :)

[DoNotRefill]

68. You're right....

Michael Jackson isn't a pedophile because he's "different" or "at odds with himself". He's a pedophile because he fucks little boys.

[Tomee450]

90. And how do you know this?

Have you seen the evidence,interviewed the wittnesses?

[rocktivity]

21. The down side to being innocent and settling a criminal case

is that most people think you did it because you're guility. If it was going to cost me ten million dollars either way, I would prefer to spend it fighting for myself in court because my reputation is worth more to me than that.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Skittles]

25. damn straight

no way in HELL would I settle if I was innocent of such hideous charges; NO WAY.

[Skittles]

24. yeah, like OJ

nt

[davsand]

15. Well there are a few hundred parents who are either stupid or isolated.

I'm sorry--but you'd have to have either been isolated for several years not to have heard speculation about Jackson's proclivities, or else you'd have to be just dumber than a box of rocks to let him anywhere near your kid.

I'll grant you--it was probably a mob scene with THAT many kids there, but jeesh--this guy has been publicly accused of child molestation and other weirdness for about the last ten years. Wouldn't ya THINK that those parents were aware of the potential that those kids were hanging with Chester the Molester?

:shrug:

Laura

[CountAllVotes]

17. I thought MJ was never going back to Neverland

...

That was after the last go round of child abuse charges a few months back. MJ said he never going back to Neverland.

Seems he changed his mind.

I don't care what his "trip" might be. He is a real weirdo in my book no matter what anyone says!

:kick:

[Liberal Veteran]

20. Being "normal" is overrated anyway.

I don't have a problem with people being weird. If they hurt other people then they become an issue, until then, I don't concern myself with their eccentricities.

[Name removed]

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[Cronus Protagonist]

39. No he didn't. He said he wouldn't LIVE there any more

And he hasn't.

FYI.




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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Tomee450]

33. Absolutely absurd.

How do you know that Jackson is a pedophile. Has he been tried and evidence presented? If someone accused you of theft, would your friends and acquaintances be justified in treating you like a thief? Would you feel it would be acceptable if they hid their valuables from you out of fear that you would steal them. How would you feel if women hid their purses when in your presence. Absolutely no one knows what has happened in these cases. Michael Jackson has been around thousands of children over the years; why haven't many more come forward with the same accusations. Experts say pedophiles do not stop with one or two children, they usually molest many children. Most of those Catholic priests had molested many children. Jackson does not fit the pattern of a pedophile.

[LordshipLadyship]

37. dosn't fit the pattern

Lives alone or with parents ~ This indicator is closely related to the above. Again, by itself, it has little meaning. The fact that a man lives alone does not mean he is a pedophile. The fact that an individual who possesses many of the other traits discussed here and also lives alone might be significant.

Limited dating relationships if not married ~ A man who lives alone, has never been married, and who does not date should arouse suspicion if he possesses other characteristics discussed here.

If married, "special" relationship with spouse ~ When they do marry, pedophiles often marry either a strong, domineering woman or a weak, passive woman-child. In any case, they will marry a woman who does not have high sexual expectations or needs. A woman married to a pedophile may not realize that her husband is a pedophile, but she does know he has a "problem" --a sexual performance problem. Because she may blame herself for this problem and because of the private nature of people’s sex lives, most wives will usually not reveal this information to an investigator...Pedophiles sometimes marry for convenience or cover.

Excessive interest in children How much interest is excessive? This is a difficult question. The old adage "If it sounds too good to be true, maybe it is" may apply here. If someone’s interest in children seems too good to be true, maybe it is. This is not proof that someone is a pedophile, but it is a reason to be suspicious. It becomes more significant when this excessive interest is combined with other indicators.

Associates and circle of friends are young ~ In addition to sexual activity, pedophiles frequently socialize with children. They may hang around schoolyards, arcades, shopping centers-- any place that children frequent. Their "friends" may be male, female, or both sexes, very young or teenagers, all depending on the age and gender preferences of the pedophile.

Limited peer relationships ~ Because they cannot share the most important part of their life (their sexual interest in children) with most adults, pedophiles may have a limited number of those adult friends. Only other pedophiles will validate their sexual behavior...

Age and gender preference ~ Most pedophiles prefer children of a certain sex in a certain age range. The older the age preference of the pedophile, the more exclusive the gender preference. Pedophiles attracted to toddlers are more likely to molest boys and girls indiscriminately. A pedophile attracted to teenagers is more likely to prefer either boys or girls exclusively. The preference age bracket for the child can also vary. One pedophile might prefer boys eight to 10, while another might prefer boys six to 12. A pedophile’s age preference might not even correspond exactly with the legal definitions of a child or minor. For example, a pedophile might prefer sexual partners 13 to 19. How old a child looks and acts is more important than actual chronological age. A 13-year-old child who looks and acts like a 10-year-old child could be a victim target for a molester preferring eight to 10 years olds. For the introverted Preferential Child Molester, how old the child looks is more important than how old the child acts. Puberty seems to be an important dividing line for many pedophiles. This is only an age and gender preference, not an exclusive limitation. Any individual expressing a strong desire to care for or adopt only a child of a very specific sex and age (other than an infant) should be viewed with some suspicion.

Refers to children as "clean," "pure," "innocent," "impish," etc., or as objects ~ Pedophiles sometimes have an idealistic view of children that is expressed in their language and writing. Others sometimes refer to children as if they were objects, projects, or possessions. "This kid has low mileage" and "I’ve been working on this project for six months" are typical comments.

Well-Developed Techniques in Obtaining Victims
Skilled at identifying vulnerable victims ~ Some pedophiles can watch a group of children for a brief period of time and then select a potential target. More often than not, the selected child turns out to be from a broken home or the victim of emotional or physical neglect. This skill is developed through practice and experience.

Identifies with children (better than with adults) ~ Pedophiles have the ability to identify with children better than they do with adults--a trait that makes most pedophiles master seducers of children. They especially know how to listen to children. Many pedophiles are described as "pied pipers" who attract children.
Access to children ~ This is one of the most important indicators of a pedophile. The pedophile will surely have a a method of gaining access to children. Other than simply hanging around places children congregate, pedophiles sometimes marry women simply to gain access to children. Pedophiles are frequently the "nice guys" in the neighborhood who like to entertain the children after school or take them on day or weekend trips. Also, a pedophile may seek employment where he will be in contact with children (teacher, camp counselor, babysitter, school bus driver) or where he can eventually specialize in dealing with children (physician, dentist, minister, photographer, social worker, police officer). The pedophile may also become a scout leader, Big Brother, foster parent, little league coach, and so on. The pedophile may operate a business that hires adolescents. In one case known to the author, a pedophile married, had a daughter, and he molested her. He was the "nice guy" in the neighborhood who had the neighborhood girls over to his house for parties, and he molested them. He was a coach for a girl’s softball team, and he molested them. He was a dentist who specialized in child patients, and he molested them.
Activities with children, often excluding other adults ~ The pedophile is always trying to get children in situations where there are no other adults present. On a boy scout hike he might suggest the fathers go into town for a beer. He will "sacrifice" and stay behind with the boys.

Seduces with attention, affection, and gifts ~ This is the most common technique used by pedophiles. They literally seduce the children by befriending them, talking to them, listening to them, paying attention to them, spending time with them, and buying gifts for them. If you understand the courtship process, it should not be difficult to understand why some child victims develop positive feelings for the offender. Many people can understand why an incest victim might not report his or her father, but they cannot understand why a victim not related to the offender does not immediately report molestation. There are many reasons for a victim not immediately reporting molestation (fear, blackmail, embarrassment, confusion), but the results of the seduction process are often ignored or not understood at all.

Skilled at manipulating children ~ In order to operate a child sex ring involving simultaneous sexual relations with multiple victims, a pedophile must know how to manipulate children. The pedophile uses seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the children. A skilled pedophile who can get children into a situation where they must change clothing or stay with him overnight will almost always succeed in seducing them. Not all pedophiles possess these skills...

Has hobbies and interests appealing to children ~ This is another indicator that must be considered for evaluation only in connection with other indicators. Pedophiles might collect toys or dolls, build model planes or boats, or perform as clowns or magicians to attract children. A pedophile interested in older children might have a "hobby" involving alcohol, drugs, or pornography.

Shows sexually explicit material to children ~ Any adult who shows sexually explicit material to children of any age should be viewed with suspicion. This is generally part of the seduction process in order to lower inhibitions. A pedophile might also encourage or allow children to call a dial-a-porn service or send them sexually explicit material via a computer as part of this process.

Sexual Fantasies Focusing on Children
Youth-oriented decorations in house or room ~ Pedophiles attracted to teenage boys might have their homes decorated the way a teenage boy would. This might include toys, games, stereos, rock posters, and so on. The homes of some pedophiles have been described as shrines to children or as miniature amusement parks.

Photographing of children ~ This includes photographing children fully dressed. One pedophile bragged that he went to rock concerts with thirty or forty rolls of film in order to photograph young boys. After developing the pictures, he fantasized about having sex with them. Such a pedophile might frequent playgrounds, youth swimming meets, child beauty pageants, or child exercise classes with his camera.

Collecting child pornography or child erotica ~ This is one of the most significant characteristics of pedophiles.



Now make the case to me that he isn't. Yes, innocent unless proved guilty, sure, but would I send my kids anywhere NEAR him? Hell NO. And protecting kids transcends anything anyone would call me. I'm more worried about the KIDS' innocence than I am Jackson's. Read the interviews he gives, look at what he had in that hidden room, and then tell me he isn't. Yes, he was obviously abused himself, but I am more worried about the children involved. Yes the parents of that child who has cancer are scum for handing their child over, but that doesn't make the child himself any less of a victim. And Jackson is loaded with money, he could have contested that first charge. Go read the complaints at the smoking gun website, go read what the detective said, watch him in that special where the British interviewer questioned him. Then tell me he isn't. He IS. And if the facts prove he isn't, in this case I don't give a damn. I worry more about the children involved. You don't gamble with your kids' lives.

[Judi Lynn]

42. Please post a link, and 4 paragraphs from the article you're citing. n/t

[spooked]

26. Why aren't the Courts protecting children from him?

Jackson is in total denial

[shockra]

40. It was the facial surgeries that convinced me.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

It was a rather slow, undeniable acceptance of what I didn't want to believe. But he's a man who absolutely cannot look himself in the face over what he's done. (The Man in the Mirror, anyone?) He has enormous guilt that he has been trying to deal with, in that way.

Back in the years when he was getting his face butchered over and over and over again, it used to completely freak me out every time I'd see him. He'd be unrecognizable from even the time before, nevermind from his original face. The psychological alarms went off for me that there was something deeply disturbing going on here.

For most of us to look in the mirror and see somebody *completely* different looking back at us would be one of the worst things that could ever happen to us. We might never be able to get over it. Or be able to stop thinking about it. But he actually desired that.

People need to get beyond the star worship and realize that he is also a disturbed HUMAN BEING who can't stop what he's doing, and that children need to be protected from him more than star power needs to be respected.

There is no doubt that he is a supremely talented individual, but that only contributed to the isolation that resulted in his sickness. When I think about the amount of pain and damage that he attempts to live with, it makes me feel terrible. But when I think of him inflicting that pain on other children, I feel even worse for them.

[aikido15]

41. ewwwwwwww!

sick.

[Tomee450]

65. You've got to be kidding.

Facial surgeries did it for you? There is a very wealthy woman who lives in New York who has had so many facial surgeries that she is absolutely disfigured. I can't recall her name at present but she appeared on the old Judith Regan show. I'm shocked that someone could think that just because someone has multiple facial surgeries that somehow equates him to being a probable child molester.

[Donailin]

44. I just don't get it

WTF is wrong with people bringing their kids to hang out with a creep who is OBVIOUSLY mentally unbalanced and ON TRIAL for sexually abusing children??

[fryguy]

46. and 200 more civil lawsuits ensued thereafter....

eom

[arwalden]

47. What Do Michael Jackson And JCPenney Have In Common?

[m0nkeyneck]

58. boys pants... half off?

[truth2power]

48. In the world that I live in...

and that would be having experience in child protective services, there would have been some sort of court order limiting the accused's access to children in situations similar to that to which they've been accused. (Hope that's clear. I'm on my first cup of coffee.)

In any case, it goes without saying that MJ is innocent under the law until adjudicated otherwise. That does not exempt one from exercising due diligence to protect children until it can all be sorted out.

For my part, having seen interviews with MJ (on TV) where questions regarding his relationships with children are raised, his responses raise large red flags in my mind. I don't think he should be permitted to be in compromising situations with children.

Just for the record...No, I wouldn't be seated on any jury trying this case. Nor could I be, in good conscience. I already have a bias.

[whitemale]

50. What bias do you have?

?

[truth2power]

52. I think he's guilty of molesting children.

Obviously, I couldn't sit on a jury with my mind already made up. Although, I've heard in voir dire sp? the question asked,"Even though you have an opinion on this, could you render a fair verdict?" My answer would be that I would honestly try to look at the evidence objectively.

That said, in interviews I've seen, MJ seems to be completely oblivious to the implications of certain behaviors, on his part, with children. This lack of understanding of what the concerns are, is something I've seen before, and it's not a good sign. Also, having seen interviews with his parents, I also notice the same kind of cluelessness. Whether feigned or not, my sense is that's a very dysfunctional family. Not that anyone who has seen or read about the family history doesn't already know this.

edit> clarity

[MaineDem]

53. Is he out on bail pending trial?

That was my first thought.

I can't imagine that any judge would allow him out in public without limiting his access to children PENDING trial. If he's found innocent then it's back to "normal" but until then I'm assuming there would be some protection in there.

I'm not a laywer and, to be honest, I haven't followed the case that closely. This just seems to be common sense to me.

[truth2power]

54. You are correct, IMO, but I'm not a lawyer, either. n/t

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tomee450]

64. I think your attitude is most unfortunate

There have been people whose lives were ruined just because they were accused of child abuse. I think the McMartin case was an example of this. Michael Jackson is indeed different but to equate that difference to an inclination to abuse children is a great stretch. Michael Jackson in many ways is still a child. He sometimes exercise bad judgment but that does not mean he is an abuser. I disagree with you. I do not believe he is a child molester. He has been around too many children for there not to have been more allegations of abuse. Furthermore, in this case as well as the other, the parents had their on reasons for trying to destroy Jackson. It's sad that so many people reject Christ's admonition to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." No one would want to be considered guilty simply because he is accused. No one would want their child to be mistreated or believed inclined toward criminal behavior simply because he is different. There is a lot of racial prejudice against Jackson,IMO.

[DoNotRefill]

70. Correct me if I'm wrong here....

but in the McMartin case, they didn't have them on video admitting to sleeping in the same bed with underaged boys, did they? They didn't have "love letters" written in the McMartin's handwriting to underage children, did they?

no matter how you cut it, Jackson's SELF-ADMITTED behavior crosses the line.

[Tomee450]

93. Do you believe that

that a man cannot sleep in the same bed with a child without molesting him? Is there a proclivity among men to desire young children sexually and this explains the readiness of so many people to believe a man left alone with a young child will molest him? Aren't most men better than that? As far as your other assertions, they are only reports from the media. I'd like to see the trial first with evidence presented before I judge someone to be a pervert.

[whitemale]

49. Guilty, guilty, GUILTY!!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

61. Sick. Really Sick

[LTR]

63. Was he wearing a smoking jacket and pajamas?

Sorry, writing Jay Leno's jokes before he does.

It all sounds like Jackson's 'Hef' moment.

[Blue_Tires]

69. greedy parents looking for an out-of-court settlement payday

all 200 of them probably have hi-profile LA lawyers on speed dial

[CoffeeCat]

72. I am involved with sexual-abuse survivor support groups...

I am involved as a volunteer facilitator for adults victims of childhood sexual abuse. This is just my opinion based on my limited observations.

I can tell you that Jackson's family history and behavior fits the profile of a child molester.

I do not presume to know if Jackson is guilty or innocent. I'll let the courts decide that. However, he fits the behavioral mold perfectly.

His family history is typical of what you'd see with a pedophile. He's made comments about his father being physically abusive, and also that he "still shakes with fear when I'm around my father." His mother is the typical co-dependent-weak personality type--which is common in families where sexual abuse happens.

The entire family is dysfunctional and shows signs of sexual issues. Both LaToya and Janet have been very sexual and have exploited themselves during their careers. These behaviors are sometimes signs that sexual abuse happened in the family. They've learned not to respect themselves because their boundaries were so severely violated during childhood.

Self mutilation almost always points to childhood sexual abuse/trauma. Many survivors cut or burn their bodies. It's a coping mechanism. Jackson's money allows him to go beyond cutting--and to extend self mutilation to deeper levels--with multiple surgeries that disfigure him. I would also guess that destroying his appearance is an attempt to destroy the pain inside of him. He may blame his own abuse on his looks or attractiveness--after all his entire childhood was focused on his appearance.

Most pedophiles are stuck in childhood. Jackson acts and talks like a child. He's like a boy surrounding himself with the childhood he hever had--because the abuse he endured robbed him of a childhood. Neverland and other childlike behaviors seem like an attempt to re-gain that lost childhood. Many pedophiles are able to relate to children very well, because they are "stuck" in childhood. The abuse they suffer stunts them at certain developmental stages--and leaves them attracted to children--because they have never emotionally progressed beyond those young stages themselves.

Also--and this is disturbing--but when a child is sexually abused--it becomes carved into their psyche that sex and children go hand in hand. The sexually abused child grows into an adult who was conditioned to believe that children are sexual objects. Children staying overnight in Jackson's bed and having them sleep over during slumber parties--certainly allows Jackson opportunity to abuse.

Jackson's response to the allegations against him are typical of perpetrators. Perps take on the victim role and are masters at drama and manipulation. I've seen a ton of this behavior in Jackson. He seems intent on creating publicity events in which he appears to be "the good guy" who is wrongly accused. This Neverland party is just one attempt to do just that. A normal person, who was wrongly accused of molestation, wouldn't go out of his way to throw a party for 200 kids and invite the media.

Again--just my 2 cents.

[rocktivity]

76. Makes sense

and "fitting the profile" is enough to get you kicked off a plane!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Blue_Tires]

78. i'm not saying jackson is innocent (or not)

but what I am saying is that based on ALL past controversy and the troubles he's had in the past; if ANY parent lets their kid within 10 miles of jackson's place, knowing what we all know now, it's pretty hard to feel sympathy for them (and I daresay, some parents are probably putting their beloved kids in this situation intentionally with the explicit hope that jackson does lay a hand on them so they can reap millions)

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[XemaSab]

77. The kicker for me...

....is that he's FIXATED on children. Completely fixated. He's always been fixated on children. If he wasn't fixated, his handlers would have convinced him to stay away from children, but he just doesn't get it at all.

It's cool to be an adult who likes kids, likes having kids around, and wants to make kids happy, but with MJ it's more about his own pleasure (even asexual pleasure).

But it's the *fixation* that's the kicker for me. I remember back in the day (1992 or so) he had a contest for fans to make a video, and he picked the winner. The runners-up were really expensive, professionally done videos, but the winner was a bunch of kids jumping around on a playground.

The man cannot say no to children.

He's also a total freakazoid. The platic surgery is pretty bad, but the most freakish thing is him *insisting* that he is the biological father of those children. They're little blond white kids. He is (genetically) Black. There's NO WAY he's the father of those kids. Just NO WAY.

He also bears a striking resemblance to a Malay Eagle Owl.

http://www.owlpages.com/species/bubo/sumatranus/malay_e...

http://www.owlpages.com/species/bubo/sumatranus/malay_e...

I'm not saying he's not a friendly person, and I'm not saying that our justice system doesn't often treat Black men unfairly, I'm saying that he brings suspicion upon himself through his own behavior.

And no freakin' way do I think children should be allowed around him.

[truthisfreedom]

80. how does michael jackson know when to go to sleep?

when the big hand is on the little hand.

why does he love twenty eight-year-olds?

because there's twenty of them.

is he guilty?

i guess we'll have to wait and see. at any rate, i don't think anyone would want to be him right now... perhaps not even michael. come to think of it, considering the things he's done to himself (surgically) over the years, perhaps he never did!

[dhinojosa]

86. What kind of cake did they have?

:evilfrown:

[Forkboy]

92. Guilty until proven innocent...The new American mantra!

[Moderator]

94. locking

it's outlived it's usefulness