Iraqi woman killed at US checkpoint

[Tinoire]

Iraqi woman killed at US checkpoint
Saturday 18 December 2004, 20:07 Makka Time, 17:07 GMT

US soldiers have killed an Iraqi woman at a checkpoint in Kirkuk after the driver allegedly failed to stop while in Baiji US contractors have come under attack.

(snip)

"The car failed to stop at a checkpoint manned by the Americans. They opened fire, killing Shakra Ahmad Husain, 27, and wounding her sister and her mother."

(snip)

It was not immediately possible to obtain comment from the US army in Kirkuk.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3CDE0032-7D35-4777-BBC1-2B5FD3EBA702.htm

I am seeing ugly parallels to another ugly situation. Both unwinnable. I can not believe we took our young kids and put them in that horror!

BRING THEM HOME NOW!

[leftchick]

1. They are shooting High school kids too!

yet Iraq is NOT like VietNam... :(




ATTENTION EDITORS - VISUALS COVERAGE OF SCENES OF DEATH AND INJURY An Iraqi doctor treats a wounded high school student after he was injured when U.S. troops opened fire following a blast in the northern city of Mosul, December 18, 2004. Several Iraqi civilians were injured, including high school students, when U.S. soldiers opened fire randomly following a roadside bomb attack against a U.S military convoy in northeastern Mosul, residents said. REUTERS/Namir Noor-Eldeen

[stm]

2. God Forbid any of those High School students

should shoot at our soldiers or place IED's by the side of the road.

Time to stop coddling the enemy and start thinking about Americans over there.

[leftchick]

3. ya think?

well why doesn't the US just nuke em all since ya can't tell em apart, right? It worked so well in other 'conflicts'.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[stm]

7. And here is one of ours..........

perhaps placed by one of your precious high school students

[leftchick]

8. Unlike you I value all life...

and I repeat... You really should target your anger at the people responsible for the debacle in Iraq. That would be the current Mis-administration! The soldiers are dying because of the idiot residing in the WH. Not because of anything any Iraqis have done.

edit: were you actually trying to make a point in that post?

[genieroze]

50. Sounds like a freeper attack to me.

[LynnTheDem]

24. How DARE they shoot at We the INVADERS & OCCUPIERS!!!

What NERVE!

Iraqis should THANK US for INVADING & OCCUPYING them!

So what if they've never done anything to us, they should still thank us for INVADING & OCCUPYING them! What's 100,000 dead innocent Iraqi men, women & kids. We're AMERICANS!

buh-bye, asshole.

[Minstrel Boy]

6. "Time to stop coddling the enemy"

And the enemy would be who? And the country, whose?

[GetTheRightVote]

11. If you listen to * & Com, we are the enemy within, do not let * Propaganda

over shadow the ugliness of this ungodly war against the Iragie People of all ages, shape, gender, or color. We are the killers in a land we should not be in period. WE should have pulled out of there long before now but then * & com would not be making all their money thru Halliburton or the Caryle Group. Let us not take our eyes off the real issues and those people over there deserve our concerns just as our soldiers do. The soldiers are attacking anything and anyone, they now see the errors of the war and events and they want out of there too. That is why so many of them are coming back home all screwed up in their heads, they know what they are doing is wrong and it is murder of innocents of Iraq not Iraq soldiers. We need to bring our soldiers home so they are not mental cases for the rest of their lives. I have seen these type of soldiers after vietnam, so many drunks, homeless, etc. came out of that war. We can not comfort anyone right now due to the circumstances they face over there, kill anything that moves more or less, what they are doing right now is tearing them up inside like we can not even image, we must get them out of there period. Then we have a bigger job of helping them forgive themselves for their part in this war, that is the real cost of this war.

[stm]

13. Where were you on September 11, 2001?

Where? Our Country
Who? Arab Terrorists
What? 3000 dead, 200 of them Muslims

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tinoire]

15. On Sept 11?

Hell, many of us were right here in shock and weeping "we tried to warn you". Sept 11 wasn't a big surprise to people who had been paying attention. The magnitude caught us unaware but not the catalytic incident.



Where were you?

[snippy]

17. So we invade a country opposed to Islamic fundamentalism and

not involved with 9/11? Pretty Bush league logic there.

[Solon]

18. I don't give two shits about Saddam and the fucking pResident's adventure.

WHERE THE FUCK IS OSAMA?!?!?!?!?!?!

[gratuitous]

20. Well, THAT one didn't last long

But in case you're still hanging around stm, here's something that might come as news to you that you might not see on Faux or hear from Rash: Iraq didn't have anything to do with the September 11, 2001 attacks, and before we deposed its leader, was one of the few Middle East countries NOT being run by fanatical religiosos.

In return, we've decimated their country, bankrupted our own Treasury, killed and wounded tens of thousands of our own troops for no purpose, and killed about 100,000 Iraqis so far. As odd as it might seem, some folks in Iraq aren't too happy with us. But I suppose if a foreign power invaded the U.S. and was killing and torturing our civilians wholesale, you'd collaborate with the invaders.

[leftchick]

21. actually

it highjacked this thread which makes it too long. :(

[foreigncorrespondent]

22. Ummm...

...I really think you need to begin thinking for yourself rather than letting Faux do your thinking for you.

The Iraqis had nothing to do with September 11th, 2001. Osama Been Forgotten was te one blamed for that. And please, let us not forget that he was in fact a creation of the U.S. CIA. Osama and Saddam hated one another. Need I go on?

[pop goes the weasel]

28. once more

pay very close attention

There were no Iraqis involved in the attack on the US.

Iraq did not have WMD.

Iraq was not a threat to the US at the time the US invaded, and had done nothing to provoke an invasion by the US.

Most Iraqis are Muslim, but not all Muslims are Iraqis. The ones that attacked the US were Egyptian, Moroccan, and Saudi.

Most Iraqis are Arabs, but not all Arabs are Iraqis. The ones that attacked the US were Egyptian, Moroccan, and Saudi.

The one outpost of Al Qaida in Iraq prior to the US invasion was in the US-friendly Kurdish area. That outpost was operated by Zarqawi, but W chose to leave it alone so he could say there was an Al Qaida outpost in Iraq.

I know it is hard to absorb new information after you've been drinking the White House kool-aid for so long--that stuff has skull thickening properties that horrify medical science--but with determination, you can kick the habit and begin to think for yourself using actual facts instead of Republican talking points.

[saigon68]

29. ADIOS

[sweetladybug]

33. stm, how many of these Arab Terrorists, on 9/11 were from Iraq?

Every American Citizen should be ashamed of our country for invading another country that has done NOTHING to us. Bush and his crime family WANTS THE OIL in that area. Someday the kool-aide affect will wear off and the lights will come on and these people will see what Bush and his crime family are all about.

[daleo]

52. And not one was an Iraqi n/t

[Dancing_Dave]

72. What a naive idiot!

If you haven't figured out by now that Bush and Cheney orchestrated 9/11, you are ABSOLUTELY NO BETTER THAN GERMANS STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE IN HITLERS OFFICIAL PROPAGANDA!!!

End of story and stop pretending like you could even be a member of the human race.

[Tinoire]

12. Coddling the enemy? Hmmm. What on earth are you trying to say?

[snippy]

16. Bush says they hate us for our freedom to kill them. Maybe he is right.

[Dancing_Dave]

73. I hate Republicans for their freedom to kill me.

But I won't believe one damn word I hear in their lying degraded "news" media for pathetic idiots, so at least I will die perfectly pure. The TRUTH is always available to anyone with an internet connection who takes adequate time to figure it out.

[Skittles]

38. WE SHOULD NOT BE THERE

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT????????????????????????????

[TahitiNut]

41. R.I.P.

Nematodes are the most numerous multicellular animals on earth. A handful of soil will contain thousands of the microscopic worms, many of them parasites of insects, plants or animals. Free-living species are abundant, including nematodes that feed on bacteria, fungi, and other nematodes, yet the vast majority of species encountered are poorly understood biologically. There are nearly 20,000 described species classified in the phylum Nemata .

Nematodes are structurally simple organisms. Adult nematodes are comprised of approximately 1,000 somatic cells, and potentially hundreds of cells associated with the reproductive system . Nematodes have been characterized as a tube within a tube ; referring to the alimentary canal which extends from the mouth on the anterior end, to the anus located near the tail. Nematodes possess digestive, nervous, excretory, and reproductive systems, but lack a discrete circulatory or respiratory system. In size they range from 0.3 mm to over 8 meters.

---

Just a mouth connected to an anus by a tube. No spine. No brain.

[NickB79]

58. Awesome analogy

Spineless, simple organisms, just a mouth and an asshole, and seemingly everywhere in the muck and dirt.

Can we start calling them nemafreepers now? :-)

[TahitiNut]

66. How about "neotodes"?

:evilgrin:

[genieroze]

48. We shouldn't be over there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr:

[daleo]

51. You're right - bring the troops back to the U.S.

It will be a win-win.

[Zhade]

55. Another dead Nazi. It's good when they fall.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coventina]

9. And another Iraqi is liberated!

From her life.....
:cry:

Bush & Co. are building up some nasty karma....I wouldn't want to be them in the next life.....

[leftchick]

10. or their fundie freeptard supporters....

they are as guilty for suppoting this insane slaughter of humans.

[genieroze]

49. I wouldn't want to be them in this life.

:puke:

[DoNotRefill]

19. Jeez, didn't they ever watch "COPS"???

:evilgrin:

For the "I support the Iraqi Insurgents when they kill Americans....ANY Americans..." crowd, what would be an approriate response to somebody in a several thousand pound car trying to ram through a military roadblock?

[NNN0LHI]

23. For the ignorant America can do no wrong crowd

When the USA ends the occupation of Iraq and come home Americans will stop dying there immediately. Isn't that what you want? The Iraqis can't leave. They are already home. Is that difficult for you to comprehend?

Don

[DoNotRefill]

25. Who said America can do no wrong?

I certainly didn't. But shooting at a car that's trying to crash through a military roadblock isn't what I'd consider to be a wrong, any more than returning fire at people who are shooting at you is wrong. YMMV.

Frankly, I don't know a whole lot of "mainstream" Democrats who are pushing for the US to simply cut and run in Iraq. John Kerry certainly didn't advocate that. And I know even fewer Democrats at ALL who would make a statement like "I support the Iraqi resistance" as some people here have done in the not too distant past.

[Just Me]

27. But for the fact that we are "ILLEGITIMATELY" there,...

,...this event would NOT have happened.

Yes?

[DoNotRefill]

32. The fact is we ARE there...

yes?

Opposing the war is one thing. Supporting the insurgents as they kill US troops is something else entirely.

[Just Me]

46. "Supporting" the insurgents?

I'm an insurgent,...against a leadership that is spending our troops blood and our citizens' lives,...for profit.

I am a warrior against all dictatorships,...even the most calculating and deceptive of our own.

So,...KILL ME.

[DoNotRefill]

59. Sounds to me like....

you're politically opposed to the war, NOT like you're actually supporting the Iraqi insurgents. That's an exercize of constitutionally protected rights. It's when you actually get into supporting the Iraqi insurgents as they kill Americans that there's a legal problem.

There's a difference between saying "Bush sucks!" and saying "Go Fedayeen Saddam!!!", yes?

[Dancing_Dave]

76. The fact is we shoudn't be.

And when U.S. troops die, it is solely and entirely the ethical responsibility of those who wrongly sent them there. Iraqis struggling to free their land from an unjust occupation are completely within their rights just like George Washington fighting British occupiers. End of story.

[TahitiNut]

45. Wow! How imaginative!

First it's "ram through a military roadblock" and then it's "crash through a military roadblock." Hyperbole anyone? :eyes:


FWIW, the story does not mention any 'roadblack' nor does it mention 'ramming' or 'crashing.' When the military sets up a checkpoint, they don't usually do construction. (sheesh!) They put out an advance sign, a couple of traffic cones, and have a few guys ready to play Shooting Gallery.

[DoNotRefill]

60. How else would you describe refusing to stop at a checkpoint?

If you don't block the road, it's not a checkpont, is it?

If you refused to stop at a sobriety checkpoint in the US (where there isn't a shooting war going on), and instead just drove through it, what do you think the police response would be? How long would you be in jail?

[phylny]

61. Well, I don't think the police would shoot me. n/t

[DoNotRefill]

62. That's possible....

because there's not a war on here.

On the other hand, if it looked like you were likely to strike an officer with your car (which is assault with a deadly weapon) while running the roadblock, they very well might shoot you...and it'd be legally justified as self-defense, even in the USA in a time of peace.

[NNN0LHI]

65. I think you mean we are not currently under occupation...

...by a foreign government. Let me ask you something. If you ever did find yourself under foreign military occupation would you collaborate with them against your own country or would you resist?

Don

[DoNotRefill]

68. I'd resist....

and I wouldn't bitch about it when they shot me.

[noiretextatique]

69. of course not...you'd be dead

like this woman is dead. "bitch" is hardly a word i'd use to describe resisting an illegal occupation. this woman's "resistance" was sitting in the passenger seat of a car.

[TahitiNut]

81. Being a passenger in the "wrong" car is a capital offense to the Reich.

We've lost any claim to a moral compass if we condone or rationalize this shit. This is criminal, and the US is an outlaw nation.

[Just Me]

26. That crowd has no clue what has been done in their name,...

,...by their representatives. Those who do have knowledge of the destruction waged by their representatives,...don't value any "life" other than their own. The former are basically "good", the latter choose to be "wicked".

They are too lazy to bother with studying the facts (rather than swallowing, in toto, propaganda and blatant lies fed to them).

They are too proud to ponder "why".

They are too afraid to seek "truth".

They are too arrogant to confront "reality" (about both themselves and the world in which they live).

They are too selfish to contribute towards alternative solutions.

They are too spoiled to take a step into the unfortunate circumstances of others.

They are too undisciplined to actively engage in free examination, thought, and imagination towards a different conclusion.

[sandnsea]

34. Then what?

In Iraq, after occupying troops leave.

[NNN0LHI]

36. Occupying troops stop killing and being killed immediately

I can't predict the future. But what happens in Iraq will be pretty much left up to America. Will the USA pay war reparations to the Iraqi people for destroying their country and killing their citizens even if it means destroying our own economy? (Which it probably will do) Will the USA begin an ongoing dialog that will recognize and respect whomever the Iraqi people choose to be their leader? Even if it is an ayatollah with an attitude?

Don

[sandnsea]

37. So you don't care I guess

Remove a government, rip a country to shreds, and say, "oops, my bad". Is that it? Please don't kill each other now, and good luck with your neighbors who would be more than happy to invade as well.

[NNN0LHI]

39. You do seem to be able to predict the future

"Neighbors who would be more than happy to invade as well", and everything. How do you know this? And are you sure that is the case or is there any chance that you could be imagining things?

Don

[sandnsea]

57. See #56

Responsible people accept the consequences of their decisions. They make sure the solution isn't going to be worse than the problem, like Bush should have done before he went into Iraq. As bad as it is, it doesn't mean it can't get worse. Any solution ought to consider the possible consequences. I never see that from leftists.

[Just Me]

44. I care enough to seek justice against those who imposed mass,...

,...destruction upon a people and country that NEVER threatened our security (making us the EVIL AGGRESSORS).

Do you?

If so,..HOW?

Whaddya' wanna' do?

KILL MORE IN ORDER TO IMPOSE YOUR GOD-AWFUL WILL?

WANNA' KILL, KILL, KILL,...and destroy some more in order to FEEL better about your lot in life?

nothing personal,...but,...fuck you and your clingy denial,.... I'll bet you'd wake up if you were firmly planted in their shoes,...and you held your limbless baby daughter in your hands.

But,...you can't fuckin' handle that,...can you????? You can't handle what is delivered in your name,...'cause you CHOOSE, just as those fascists before you,...NOT to go to a place that challenges your "comfort".

*sigh*

[sandnsea]

56. That baby girl

What the hell difference does it make to that mom if her child is killed by an American bullet or in a civil war or a takeover by another dictator or another country? The big picture, for the sake of that baby girl. A real solution to that catastrophe, for the sake of that baby girl. The house is on fire and protesting electric heaters isn't going to put the fire out. We lit Iraq on fire, as sure as an electric heater causes house fires; how are we going to really put it out? That's what I want to know. I am so sick of people who say no, no, no; but never face up to the face that no has consequence too.

[daleo]

70. Someone who is both arsonist and fireman will never be trusted

Especially by the householder affected by the fire.

[sandnsea]

71. Are you an arsonist?

I'm not. I didn't want to set this fire, but now that it's blazing, I want to put the fire out. Your reasoning is why they disbanded the Iraqi Army, nobody would trust those who had opressed the people for decades. All I know is people want solutions, not just complaints about problems.

[daleo]

78. I mean the Bush admin is the arsonist

Therefore it (and by extension, the U.S. military) will never be trusted by Iraqis as the fireman to put out the blaze. I don't see things improving as long as the U.S. military is in Iraq.

[sandnsea]

79. We're America too

There needs to be a complete change in Iraq. It is actually possible for the US military and NGO's to change course, the Iraqis could trust us again. But somebody has to talk about the right way to help Iraq and force Bush to change. Every time John Kerry tried, the left helped the right with that "stay the course" bullshit. In the meantime, if nobody comes up with a better solution for Iraq, they're going to be stuck with Bushit too. If we want to get out of there, we're going to have to do more than just say "bring the troops home". I think if real solutions were presented, the American people would get behind that, and we'd get out of there faster and let Iraq have their country back.

[daleo]

80. Bush's solution will be more killing

We saw this in Viet Nam. Perhaps if Kerry was president now his plan, vague as it was, might have been given a chance for at least a little while by Iraqis.

I don't know what the solution will be, but I don't see how it can involve the U.S. military's continuing presence in Iraq, at least not while Bush is president, and probably not while Republicans are in power. It seems to me that the one thing Iraqis agree on (for the most part) is that they no longer want the U.S. there.

Bush likes dressing up as a soldier too much to leave Iraq, unless it is to attack someplace else. Watch the inauguration. It will be an eye-opener.

[Dancing_Dave]

75. WHAT THE HELL WAS THE ROADBLOCK DOING TO BEGIN WITH???

How much are you being paid to spout such ignorant nonsense? If you have no more clue about what's really going on and why than the average German in 1940, why advertise the depth of your loss with such sub-human remarks???

[Swamp Rat]

30. BRING THEM HOME NOW!

BRING THEM HOME NOW!
BRING THEM HOME NOW!
BRING THEM HOME NOW!

[ckramer]

31. "one more terrorist breeder eliminated!" rednecks shouted

[Darranar]

35. Once again the US demonstrates its "liberation". n/t

[wankawanka]

40. its sad that she died but what can you do the she tryed to ram a check

point

[TahitiNut]

42. "tryed (sic) to ram a checkpoint"???

Actually, that's not true. The driver failed to obey the Imperial Stop Order - for which she, a passenger, was murdered.

"Yusuf said the car's driver was unhurt." (See?)

[wankawanka]

43. and imperal order? the soilders were just doing their job you stop people

at a check point

[alcuno]

47. I agree. These things happen when you start a Holy War.

Innocent people are going to be maimed and killed. War in the name of God has never turned out well and I expect the one in Iraq to be no different.

[Bouncy Ball]

53. Um

think about this again, wankawanka. She was shot and KILLED for not stopping at a check point. She wasn't questioned, she wasn't held in custody, shot and killed on the SPOT.

If it weren't for the fact that we invaded and attacked Iraq in the first place, we wouldn't be over there killing and injuring innocent people and getting our servicemembers killed, to boot.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You don't shoot up a car like that. They don't stop? Then there's another checkpoint down the road a bit where the soldiers can get more aggressive, short of just ready, aim, kill.

The true tragedy is that we are tearing up and occupying their country in the first place. How the heck would we like it?

[daleo]

54. Doing their job is an imperial order

You could quibble with the term imperial (the U.S. has not formerly declared itself an empire yet), but when troops do their jobs they are also following orders.

Furthermore, when they command people to stop at a checkstop they are enforcing an imperial order - or an "occupation force order" if you want a more precise legal terminology.

[DoNotRefill]

63. They should have said....

"these are not the droids you are looking for."

[Disturbed]

64. Around 80% of Iraqis want the U.S. out of Iraq.

The U.S. liberated the Iraqis from Saddam. The Iraqis said thank you and now please go home. The U.S. refuses to do so. Instead the U.S. is building 14 permanent miltary bases on Iraqi soil. What the Iraqis want to do with their country now should be their business yet the U.S. has imposed the following onto Iraq.

The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy
by Antonia Juhasz

Officially, the U.S. occupation of Iraq ended on June 28, 2004. But in reality, the United States is still in charge: Not only do 138,000 troops remain to control the streets, but the "100 Orders" of L. Paul Bremer III remain to control the economy.

These little noticed orders enacted by Bremer, the now-departed head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, go to the heart of Bush administration plans in Iraq. They lock in sweeping advantages to American firms, ensuring long-term U.S. economic advantage while guaranteeing few, if any, benefits to the Iraqi people.

The Bremer orders control every aspect of Iraqi life - from the use of car horns to the privatization of state-owned enterprises. Order No. 39 alone does no less than "transition from a … centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat.

Although many thought that the "end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the orders, on his last day in Iraq Bremer simply transferred authority for the orders to Prime Minister Iyad Allawi - a 30-year exile with close ties to the CIA and British intelligence.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-07.htm

[Dancing_Dave]

77. You can get all our oppressive checkpoints out of there!

Only real solution to the problem.

[Dangerman]

67. So they ousted and captured Saddam for this?

:puke: