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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:08 AM
Original message
Alleged Pentagon propaganda campaign abroad a lost cause
By Cokie Roberts and Steven V. Roberts

American credibility in the Muslim world is already at rock bottom. And now some geniuses in the Pentagon want to push it even lower, if that's possible. Several newspapers report that a bitter debate is raging in military circles over a secret plan to use covert disinformation and propaganda campaigns to manipulate views of America abroad.

Three years ago, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was forced to close down a similar effort, run by a "Department of Deception" officially called the Office of Strategic Influence. But now this bad idea is back, spurred by a raging frustration within the Pentagon that America's enemies are winning the propaganda battle across the Muslim world. The motto of this renewed campaign seems to be "If they're lying about us, we'll lie about them."

Fortunately, sane voices within the Pentagon are raising objections. For one thing, they say these lies will inevitably filter back here and deceive Americans as well as foreigners.

Moreover, military information officers are already under great suspicion, and this will only make their job harder. As one senior defense official told the Los Angeles Times, "What's at stake is the credibility of people in uniform."

It's not as if American commanders have any goodwill to spare either. As a Pentagon advisory panel recently reported, "The critical problem in American public diplomacy directed toward the Muslim world is not one of 'dissemination of information,' or even one of crafting and delivering the right' message. Rather, it is a fundamental problem of credibility. Simply, there is none."

much much more, a good article at:
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206~11851~2606873,00.html
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. VonRumsfeld's bad idea never went away in the first place. n/t
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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. American and Credibility go together like grease and fire.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. campaigns to manipulate views of America abroad.
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 08:25 AM by 4MoronicYears
pretend that we haven't supported a one sided view of the Israeli Palestinian conundrum.

Then we can pretend we didn't tell Iraq that we had no concerns for their wanting to take Kuwait for various monetary reasons.

Then we can pretend we didn't crash the govt of Iran.

Then we can pretend we didn't obliterate the retreating Iraqi troops as they crossed the desert leaving Kuwait.

Then we can pretend our CIA hasn't helped topple over 40 (many democratically structured) governments around the world.

Then we can pretend we aren't in it for the oil.

We can pretend Abu Ghraib wasn't sanctioned by our fearless leaders.

We can pretend women and children weren't accosted there. (accosted much more polite than that other word)

I suppose with enough smoke and mirrors we can change all the history books in the world and paint a happy face on all of it.

Yeah, I think it will work, but only if the rest of the world reduces itself to a 2nd grade education or less.

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, we weren't in it for the oil
or at least not just the oil. There's all the money being made in privatization of Iraqi assets. The Iraqi telephone industry privatization award alone is worth billions. There's pockets to be picked and assets to be privatized and labor to be exploited. And then of course there is the oil.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. what else did the US privatize in Iraq?
I heard about the privatization before (at an anti-occupation rally during a speech), but never saw it in detail.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Well, from memory
besides telephone, there has been privatization of some banks, water distillation, seeds (these now have to be patented GM seeds), media (some television and radio), seaport import/export, there are talks going on now about privatization of oil distribution, and plenty more which I do not remember.

There have been six or seven big meetings in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait where global corporatists meet with Allawi and they agree on what assets are to be sold and at what price.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. If one was looking for proof of plunder, there it is
thanks
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Dumb isn't the right word, blind fits better.
America, well, 51% of the electorate supposedly, has chosen to blind themselves to the world around them and listen to what they are told to listen to and see what they are told to see.

Bush made a statement more than three months before his blind march to war that Iraqi oil would be used to pay for the cost of the war and then be used to pay for Iraq's other debts.

At that point was where I woke up completely to just how ill conceived this plan was.

Yet the signs continued that we were marching to war with the direction less vision of a fanatic guiding us. Examples are plentiful of this through the past few years of repression for things that snuck into the news yet barely got any play in the national media and when it did make the national media it was so spun that it resembled a buzz-saw blade.

Why has the media not noted that on December 28th 2002 Rummy said that we were prepared for the worst of this war with his final upgrade. Now we can look at the complaints from the troops themselves who are asking why they do not have properly armored vehicles.

America has chosen to be blind, unobservant and chosen to be incurious. Disgusting as it may be, people have chosen to live a life of a special type of blindness in an ignorance where they choose to reinforce their political opinion or ignore the greater world around them completely.

As the song Amazing Grace states, "I once was blind, but now I see." I only hope that America will snap out of it's own ignorant blindness; yet, it cannot escape the shackles of ignorance without the key of knowledge being made available.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Read "Baghdad Year Zero: Pillaging Iraq in pursuit of a neo-con utopia"
Naomi Klein
Harper's
September 2004

It was only after I had been in Baghdad for a month that I found what I was looking for. I had traveled to Iraq a year after the war began, at the height of what should have been a construction boom, but after weeks of searching I had not seen a single piece of heavy machinery apart from tanks and humvees. Then I saw it: a construction crane. It was big and yellow and impressive, and when I caught a glimpse of it around a corner in a busy shopping district I thought that I was finally about to witness some of the reconstruction I had heard so much about. But as I got closer I noticed that the crane was not actually rebuilding anything—not one of the bombed-out government buildings that still lay in rubble all over the city, nor one of the many power lines that remained in twisted heaps even as the heat of summer was starting to bear down. No, the crane was hoisting a giant billboard to the top of a three-story building. SUNBULAH: HONEY 100% NATURAL, made in Saudi Arabia.

(snip)

Looking at the honey billboard, I was also reminded of the most common explanation for what has gone wrong in Iraq, a complaint echoed by everyone from John Kerry to Pat Buchanan: Iraq is mired in blood and deprivation because George W. Bush didn’t have “a postwar plan.” The only problem with this theory is that it isn’t true. The Bush Administration did have a plan for what it would do after the war; put simply, it was to lay out as much honey as possible, then sit back and wait for the flies.

* * *

The honey theory of Iraqi reconstruction stems from the most cherished belief of the war’s ideological architects: that greed is good. Not good just for them and their friends but good for humanity, and certainly good for Iraqis. Greed creates profit, which creates growth, which creates jobs and products and services and everything else anyone could possibly need or want. The role of good government, then, is to create the optimal conditions for corporations to pursue their bottomless greed, so that they in turn can meet the needs of the society. The problem is that governments, even neoconservative governments, rarely get the chance to prove their sacred theory right: despite their enormous ideological advances, even George Bush’s Republicans are, in their own minds, perennially sabotaged by meddling Democrats, intractable unions, and alarmist environmentalists.

Iraq was going to change all that. In one place on Earth, the theory would finally be put into practice in its most perfect and uncompromised form. A country of 25 million would not be rebuilt as it was before the war; it would be erased, disappeared. In its place would spring forth a gleaming showroom for laissez-faire economics, a utopia such as the world had never seen. Every policy that liberates multinational corporations to pursue their quest for profit would be put into place: a shrunken state, a flexible workforce, open borders, minimal taxes, no tariffs, no ownership restrictions. The people of Iraq would, of course, have to endure some short-term pain: assets, previously owned by the state, would have to be given up to create new opportunities for growth and investment. Jobs would have to be lost and, as foreign products flooded across the border, local businesses and family farms would, unfortunately, be unable to compete. But to the authors of this plan, these would be small prices to pay for the economic boom that would surely explode once the proper conditions were in place, a boom so powerful the country would practically rebuild itself.

(snip)


That, in essence, was the working thesis in Iraq, and in keeping with the belief that private companies are more suited than governments for virtually every task, the White House decided to privatize the task of privatizing Iraq’s state-dominated economy. Two months before the war began, USAID began drafting a work order, to be handed out to a private company, to oversee Iraq’s “transition to a sustainable market-driven economic system.” The document states that the winning company (which turned out to be the KPMG offshoot Bearing Point) will take “appropriate advantage of the unique opportunity for rapid progress in this area presented by the current configuration of political circumstances.” Which is precisely what happened.


Read the rest:
http://www.nologo.org/newsite/detail.php?ID=415

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. And the world looks on and sees the graft, greed and illegality for what
it is. The headline read How can 59,000,000 People Be So Dumb. Well, they are led by corporate media engines that would have it be so.

My fellow Americans... you are so very very stupid.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. "wouldn't it be loverly"
(that's intended sarcastically)
Cokie, my favorite media whore, conveniently ignores the glaring fact that the US is building 14 military bases in Iraq and has no intention of leaving. We are not going to just stay there until a "democracy" is established. We are going to stay there as long as there is valuable oil in that region. That would be about a century.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well, it seems to be working pretty well in the U.S. When they don't
lie, they lockdown.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. These 2 media whores never mention that the USA has no credibility
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 08:53 AM by NNN0LHI
If I don't believe a word that comes from this administration or the lap dog USA media, no one is ever going to. My government and the whore US media convinced me and most Americans during the 1980's that Saddam and Osama were swell guys. Guess what? That kind of shit ain't going to happen to me again. You can take that to the bank.

Don

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Not only does the bush** administration and the military have a big
problem in the area of credibility, she fails to mention that the American media is a world-wide joke. And she's one of the biggest punchlines in my book.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. THIS IS DEMOCRACY ON THE MOVE US STYLE--- "VOTE"
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 09:23 AM by saigon68


A Dog Munching on a The Head of an Iraqi Corpse

JUST HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU HAVE "FREE" ELECTIONS IN A COUNTRY-- WHEN
YOU CAN'T EVEN POLICE UP THE DEAD CORPSES SO THE DOGS WON'T EAT
THEM.





Burnt bodies the legs of which were devoured by Dogs.

What a Feast in Fallujah
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Not many family values there.... geez Saigon... I imagine you are a
Vietnam vet, no? Your anger is well placed, imagine if these pics were the fare of the day and not what Michael Jackson, His sisters teat, or Scott Petersen may or may not have done.

I like to think of the cable news of the last year or so as the Scott Petersen channel, the Michael Jackson channel.. the whatever the channel. How in the F*ck can they spend so damn much money and time on a single crime whilst this crap is and was going on in Fallujah with virtually no coverage. At least no real coverage.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. I don't think "American credibility ... is already at rock bottom."
Nope. Every day we're gonna see new lows. This criminal regime of bottom feeders will create new bottoms every day. They've never yet seen a standard below which they can't perform. How're they doing in Iraq? Better than Saddam, they say. And even that's arguable. Job growth? Not as bad as Hoover. Yet.

Their arrogance, built on the habits of corrupt 'businessmen,' leads them to habitually believe they can make it better by lying. Does the public (correctly) perceive that Ford makes car bodies that rattle like they're about to fall apart? Well, just advertise them as quiet. Job one: LIE. Paying too much income tax? Easily solved: lie about profits. Polluting? Lie. Abusing employees? Lie.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. I recall that SAIC got about seven of the telecommunications and
broadcast Iraqi "contracts" if memory serves me well.
Campaign Contributions of post-war Contractors
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=contrib
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Buddyblazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. I find this one ironic...
"For one thing, they say these lies will inevitably filter back here and deceive Americans as well as foreigners."

Translation:
"We (MSM) are too smart to be deceived. Everything they've told us to this point is 100% true."
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