US Rents Unaffordable.

[Bono71]

More section 8's needed (along with better wages), it seems.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041220/ap_on_re_us/affordable_rent

[WI_DEM]

1. No kidding

affordable housing is a major problem in this country. Maybe Dems should campaign on that, but the DLC would say, "hey, you would start scaring the middle class by making them think that some undesirable poor person might move into their neighborhood."

[Bono71]

5. As a developer of multifamily, it's tough because you have to

deal with:

1) Not-in-my-back-yardism (that you allude to in your post). This affects zoning, big time.

2) The price of real estate is sky high. Developers are already paying twice as much per unit as they did a few years ago. This affects financing and eventually rents.

3) Unemployement (though it's getting better). If people are not employed, they can't pay rent.

4) More people own there own homes. The pool of rental aplicants is shrinking.

[shrike]

9. The local Catholic Church

tried to get permission to build an apartment building on its property. The complex would have been for seniors only, accepted no federal or state monies, and would have provided below market rent for seniors healthy enough to live alone.

The community went into an uproar because it was widely believed the church was trying to get an apartment for blacks in the neighborhood. The pastor (who is a nice guy) got hate mail and obscene phone calls. The Plan Commission voted it down.

Ironically, the church had allowed kids from the neighborhood to play on that parcel for years. Later on this year, the diocesan's liability insurance rates went through the roof, like everybody else's. Orders came down from the bishop: no more soccer and baseball games. Of course, now everyone's even madder at the priest.

[Bono71]

12. I feel his pain. I am currently paying the note on a parcel in

Tampa because my zoning fell through...I hate seeing those checks go out the door...ugh.

[shrike]

16. Yikes! My sympathies. I'm the daughter of a landlord

Racism is much more of a problem than anyone is willing to admit. Everyone says the right words, mouths the right outrage, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they want to live in a lily-white neighborhood.

[serryjw]

127. Isn't part of the problem.....

working class people want TOO much house? I grew up in 1600 sq ft ROW house in Queens NY. We had 1 1/2 baths. EVERYONE showered in ONE bathroom. MY bedroom was 6X8!! No kidding!

[pelagius]

46. Our local Habitat for Humanity's big problem...

...is finding neighborhoods to build our houses in. These are not shacks, they are nicely-designed, modestly-sized houses that may skimp on interior frills, but are at or above the level of comparable houses in the the neighborhood.

Everybody loves Habitat for Humanity (except the local real estate people) and thinks it does wonderful work and they say so at the city council meetings where they congregate to oppose turning a trash-strewn, weed-covered lot into a home for decent, hard-working people who put in hours of "sweat equity" to put a roof over their head.

I wish I could be more positive, but when virtually the only financial asset most people have is a mortgaged house, they become blind with fear about anything that might depreciate its value.

[RUDUing2]

2. the figure I heard was that in order to afford rent for a 1 or 2 bedroom

apt and utilities you need to make 15.37 an hour...which means two parents who work minimum wage jobs can not do so..even if they make above minimum wage they would have to each be making about 2.00 an hour over mim. wage to just afford that..and that figure didn't include food and medical...and childcare...

but you still have those who insist that if they just budgeted their money better two people on min. wage should be able to get by just fine...

[durablend]

15. "PLENTY of jobs out there..."

"If they can't afford the rent, maybe they should find two or three more jobs"

(so goes the freeper mantra)

[Sugarbleus]

66. "And/or take anti depressants".....

:eyes:

[KansDem]

18. Childcare can a real buget-breaker...

Last year, my wife and I paid about $600 a month in just after-school care for are two children. Before then, there were times when we had to have childcare (care in a private home) and our costs reached about $1,000 a month (those months with 5 Mondays--the day providers ask for payment)

There were months when childcare costs exceeded our mortgage payment!

PS--we had no family in the area, so no "drop them off at Grandma's" for us!

[Left in IL]

33. Open a day care !

Wow at $500 per kid per month !!! you should make a killing !!!

[KansDem]

36. We actually thought about it...

In a lighthearted way.

But to do so in our state/county/city would require us to buy another house and a lot of extra furniture...

For example, regulations include:
1. Separate room for nap time (generally an extra bedroom);
2. Each child must have his/her own bed/crib

Day-care providers can have up to 6 children at one time. While this would be profitable, it would work best for an older couple (retired) who are "empty nesters" and can meet the regulations with little effort and expense (empty bedrooms and left-over children's furniture)

My wife and I would even go a step further and have an Internet computer for each child with DU as its start-up page! Gotta get them while they're young! ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. Day Care regs in KS

are pretty tight. I don't know how providers make any money at it.

[abelenkpe]

39. We are in the same situation

It will be a little over 800.00 a month for daycare once I go back to work. No relatives in the area. We don't own a house because it costs far too much to buy in LA. We make decent money, but can't even afford to move into another apartment in our own neighborhood because rents have skyrocketed. The only other choice is to move an hour or more out of town and commute to work, which means the baby would spend more time at daycare, we'd have less time with the baby (which could cause serious emotional problems later on) and daycare would cost even more money. It's a no win situation! I wish the democrats would have taken up affordable housing and daycare as issues during the elections. But no one seems to be thinking about worker's everyday struggles.

[Poppyseedman]

77. Child care

My wife and were in the same boat as you describe in your post. Paying for one kid in full time care and one for after school care.

We decided to really analysis our finances with a fine tooth comb. Being completely honest and having no scared cows at all we found that by my wife giving up her job and selling her car and buying a decent used one for her, we actually could pay all the bills on one income.

There are a lot of hidden costs that add up to a lot of money: Lunch, car expenses, taxes, clothes, kids getting sick, dinner out because we were both exhausted,etc. We both made sacrifices and worked together.

It was a tough budget to live with, but the reality was, the children were much better off and my wife in the long run was a lot happier being able to raise them herself.

It worked for us.

[thinkingwoman]

85. we made the same decision

when our kids were younger (they're teens now). I remember how shocked we were to find we had more money with me staying home than both of us working.

Those hidden costs you mentioned really add up!

[abelenkpe]

110. Oddly

I find myself wishing that I could stay home with my son even though I love my job. I'm sure my little guy will love telling everyone about my job when he is a bit older too. And if I took work off for a few years now too much would change technologically in my field for me to be able to easily get another job. Of course I expect my job to be outsourced any day now, so who knows, maybe I'll be able to stay home anyway!

[0007]

22. That sounds about right!

[Deja Q]

38. Budgeting on min. wage should be just fine... in which parallel universe?

Not even 'luxuries', which is what our economy, and us being able to buy them, is rather dependent on.

[pokercat999]

51. Ever consider that if we can set a minimum wage we

should be able to set a maximum wage?

Now consider, what if they were the same?

[Sterling]

59. Sounds good to me.

Personally I don't feel the need to have more than other do.

[jwirr]

63. In the 70s there was an economist/professor

from down south who suggested that not only should we set a minimum for the poor to live on but also a maximum for the rich. He was located in a college in New Orleans, I think. At the time it sounded like communism so it didn't get much attention but it is looking good today. I wish that the billionaire's would answer one question: How much is enough to satisfy their greed? What could they possible think they cannot buy with 1 billion that they would need another one! Are they at all concerned about the girl who serves their coffee at the local restaurant but has no home?

[Paleocon]

73. What's the incentive to work harder then???

The threat of being sent to Siberia???

You people are too funny...

[jwirr]

117. Well, there is no

incentive of working harder to live on the streets either! So the only reason you would work if you were a billionaire is so you could get more money? What for? I believe the person who suggested this idea had set the top maximum at one million dollars profit a year. At that level of income and even lower I would be contented with less for the sake of others. Merry "Christ"mas.

[NuttyFluffers]

128. people who operate on that income don't work for 'the money'

they work for 'the power.' money just becomes a currency for tallying points and then is used to barter for political/negotiating power.

honestly, a human cannot spend $1 billion in their lifetime in sheer glorification of leisure, or even ego. only when you factor in outrageous games of power, often called "The Great Game," does $1 billion seem not enough. most people beyond $1 million a year are no longer 'motivated by the money' unless they are now playing "The Great Game." when people play this game casualties tend to accrue: whole empires, whole nations, whole currencies, towns, cities, regions, etc. it is a game best not played, or at least minimize the players. the destruction in its wake is horrific.

do not conflate the two. these people are not operating in even the same universe of motivators that you are thinking of. they live in the realm of 'money is no object.' your cold economic rules and theories fall empty because they do not calculate the psychology into it. when 'money doesn't mean 'money'' tends to throw a big monkey wrench into the works.

besides, when was the last time a CEO innovated the world as you know it? you are aware that most innovations are created by universities, small businesses, and lone individuals right? just by a process of sheer numbers that's how it works. so what are we losing by capping such ambition? all things in moderation -- including ambition. it is definitely dangerous if left uncheck, as our current gov't situation best illustrates.

[Cobalt Violet]

129. What do you mean by "you people"?

Are you so different if so HOW?

[Paleocon]

72. That would kill any incentive to work... For one....

For two, if you raise the minimum wage, all goods go up in price to balance the market...

I take it economics isn't your strong point?

[NNN0LHI]

79. Most people work to eat. I would say thats a pretty damn good incentive

Just out of curiosity, what is your incentive for working?

Don

[Paleocon]

87. Of course I work to eat...

And I like to eat...

But I also work hard to try and make myself a better employess, hopefully that is recognized and I get promotions and higher salary.

If I get a higher salary I can do more of the things I like to do. Unfortunately for me, all the things I like to do cost money...

[shrike]

96. You must be young

You actually think that working hard and being a good employee will get you promoted?

Take it from an old veteran of the corporate wars -- brush up on your brown-nosing skills. That's what'll get you ahead. Cultivate the right people, golf with the up-and-comers. Dress the part, act the part. Job performance is the last thing on their list.

[Paleocon]

97. LOL... Yes, young and naive...

I know what you mean. I saw it in the Army. That's why it took me 12 years to get to E5... Not enough "people" skills... LOL...

[shrike]

99. If you believe this at your age, well then ...

you're much more ignorant than I thought you were.

[Paleocon]

101. I'm an optimist, what can I tell you???

Stay away from me you "pessimist"!!!
:)

[Bono71]

104. I would like to think that in my company, we promote the person

who is highest qualified. That is the only way to compete.

[Paleocon]

105. Nahhhhhh...

That makes too much sense.... :think: :thumbsup:

[livinginphotographs]

83. Never mind the cost of living factor.

We haven't had an increase in the minimum wage since 1996/7 (can't remember which).

[shrike]

93. You're funny, too

Why is it you don't want to raise the minimum wage, yet see no problem with CEOS who earn millions a year while running their companies into the ground?

[Paleocon]

98. Well, in your perfect world, everyone gets the same pay...

In mine, the hard workers get rewarded. CEO's that run their companies into the ground get fired and ridiculed...

Since we are postulating about our "perfect" worlds...

[shrike]

100. What world is that?

Why don't you give us all directions?

[Paleocon]

102. You win....

Your perfect world doesn't exist and neither does mine...

Have a Merry Christmas. :)

[Cheswick2.0]

109. oh really?

The people who clean the building and do the landscaping work harder than you ever will. How's that hard work getting them ahead?

[Paleocon]

113. Works harder than me?

How would you know that???

:)

[theboss]

115. That's Bullshit....

I'm sorry, but I've cleaned streets, I've picked up garbage, and I've been an attorney. I know where I've worked harder. Cleaning a building is boring and dirty, but I wouldn't call it "hard." And I've never taken a two hour nap during the day as I white-collar employee. I did during my street department days.

[livinginphotographs]

120. Funny, I've cleaned numerous bathrooms and been on trash duty.

And I knew several people who made careers out of it. And NO ONE took naps. Maybe your boss was just slacking on the job.

[serryjw]

125. I watched a homeless man with a shopping cart.....

and 3 BIG bags of cans crush them for 2 hours in 20 degree weather......Who works harder? He has ONE hell of a work ethic. Didn't stop until he was finished. Most (I live in D/T Denver) homeless work VERY hard to stay alive and eat.

[gorbal]

121. Actually...

If you raise the minimum wage, more people will buy, as those on the lower side on the pay scale HAVE to spend money, while those on the higher side tend to use less of their money.

A maximum wage could be designed to only effect the smallest percentage of citizens of who are "working hard" at moving our jobs overseas and "maximizing profits".

I take it economics isn't your strong point?

[dddem]

62. That is , unless you live in Massachusetts

or California, or Washington D.C. where you have to earn $20.00 per hour to cover rent and utilities.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

106. $24/hour in Fairfax County

And that's the bare minimum for a family of four to live in a 2/BR apartment.

[traco]

118. With those figures, what

is a single mother of 2 children to do? Ex husband is the truest form of dead beat dad. He hasn't paid support in almost 3 years. AND-- the court only awarded me $150.00 support per month. WHICH-- hasn't been paid in 3 YEARS!!

I can hardly afford to PAY ATTENTION!!!

[hadrons]

3. as long as gay can't marry, its a-OK

:eyes:

[Chef]

4. Section 8

Forget that idea. * and congress just provided enough money in the the 2005 budget to fund about 97% of last years costs. The poor have to pay for * tax cuts.

[Cobalt Violet]

32. Yes, and the 20 year waiting list in my area.

[ebayfool]

69. Yup, same here - except no new applications being accepted to go ...

on the waiting list for the last 3+ years!

[NVMojo]

6. and it is going to get worse as we Walmartize America more and more...

[AG78]

13. Well the good thing about that

is that Wal-Mart will expand to become cities, and they'll have their own apartments. We'll work at Wal-Mart, live at Wal-Mart, eat at Wal-Mart. Just like the distant planet Marklar in South Park, Wal-Mart will replace every person, place, and thing in a sentence.

Did you see Wal-Mart driving his Wal-Mart to the Wal-Mart as he was eating the Wal-Mart he bought with his Wal-Mart?

[BiggJawn]

23. These Capitalists sure get nostalgic, don't they?

Little over 100 years ago, there was this phenomonem in Chicago called "Pullman"...Company jobs, Company Store, Company Housing....

[Bono71]

26. Not sure what that has to do with affordable rental housing...

The current situation (in light of all the facts) makes "capitalists" like myself shy away from that type of development. There is too much risk and not enought return.

As for management companies and owners, rents need to be where they are in order to cover cost and debt service. Economics 101. The point is this...in order for us all (developers, owner, residents) to benefit, we need 1) better paying employment 2) fewer restrictions on development 3) possibly more section 8 (not less, like the current administration wants).

[BiggJawn]

29. No slam meant to you, Bono...

George Pullman ran his own empire near chicago in the late 1800's
the people who worked in his "Palace Car Company" lived in housing that he owned, and shopped in stores he owned. why? Because as landlord and shopkeeper, Pullman knew just how much to charge his slaves to keep them down.

And that's what my comment had to do with affordable housing. It was primarily tied to the "Wal-Mart" post.

"Wal-Mart will expand to become cities, and they'll have their own apartments. We'll work at Wal-Mart, live at Wal-Mart, eat at Wal-Mart. "

[LiberalFighter]

43. They did the same for the mine workers too.

[BiggJawn]

49. Yes, even more so.

Maybe this country DOES need to get in a situation of "I work, eat, and sleep Wal-Mart" to get their attention again...

But the Kool-Aid has been poured. "Unions make your prices too high!"

[saigon68]

27. There was one hell of a STRIKE there TOO

[BiggJawn]

30. Exactly.

One that required Federal troops to "put down".
I once read a book titled "Railroad Labour Disputes". The Railroad Barons found out just exactly how far they could push their workers....The HARD way!

Will it ever happen again? I doubt it. Not as long as the average worker has enough left after paying his rent/mortgage and the interest on all his credit cards to get "Deluxe Cable"....

[Cobalt Violet]

34. I can't wait to get my Wal-Mart boob job!

:crazy:

[NMDemDist2]

57. that's what they do in China at the WalMart factories

the factories have dorms where the workers live :shrug:

[Sugarbleus]

67. LMAO!! Geez, funny but scary too.. I can just see it come to pass. eom

[LibDemAlways]

7. No more affordable housing being built in

Southern California. The only new homes available anywhere near the suburban community where I live are a million and up. Existing home prices are off the charts, too. $300K for a 750 sq. foot one bedroom condo. $600K for a 3 bedroom 30 year old tract fixer. $800k for a slightly larger 30 year old tract house with a pool. It's insane.

Sales have slowed somewhat recently, but people have been saddling themselves with huge debt,and banks have been lending people hundreds of thousands to finance these overpriced turkeys with no or little down.

When the bubble bursts it's going to get ugly.

[Bono71]

10. I believe it...the cost of real estate squeezes everyone...including

the developer. It no longer becomes an attractive investment (or a sane one) when acquisition costs are so high.

[SoCalDem]

31. We bought our 1800sq ft house in SoCal ..in 1982 for 81K

A house just like ours sold a few weeks ago for $280K...People say SELL SELL, but if crappy houses like ours cost $280K, we could never even afford to get a different one. So I guess we might refi and update the kitchen, and finally replace the roof, paint the place and do the yards.. Of course with our ages and lack of stamina these days we will have to hire most of it done, but at last it will be nices for us to "serve out the rest of our time".:)

[Ilsa]

55. Sell and move to rural Arkansas. I hear that

$24,000 a year is a small fortune there. At least, that was the report on NBC last week.

[serryjw]

126. My brother sold his home in N. Hollywood

for $300K 2 years ago . It was great house BUT only minorities came to see it. No 'white' person would live in the area.

[BlueJazz]

8. There used to be a 10, 1000, 10,000 rule......

regarding rent, new cars and house buying.
It held up fairly well until Ronnie Reagan screwed the poor.

Min. wage times 10= Rent cost per week.
Min. wage times 1000=new Car
Min. wage times 10,000= New House

In theses times, it would be:
$52.25= Rent per week
$5,250= New Car
$52,250=New House

As you see, Reagan Fucked the poor and working class like a porno stud!

Grrrrrr...

[LynzM]

11. Wow, never read that before,

But you're right, it certainly doesn't hold up any more!! :(

[BlueJazz]

14. Yep...I remember back in the 70's

when I paid about 30 dollars a week for rent, a cheap new car was around 3 grand and a small house was about 30 thousand. (the 10, 1000,10,000 rule held up "in the ballpark")

With this "rule"..you can see how far we have slipped back. :)

[TexasBushwhacker]

19. Yeah, it's at least doubled

and I think that was a pretty fair estimate, and we're talking a very basic apartment, the cheapest new car and a starter home in a city that has reasonable housing costs. These days it would be:

$105 = Minimum rent per week
$10,500 = Minimum price for a new car (might be a little less if they rope you into paying a ridiculous interest rate)
$105,000 = 1000 sf. "starter home" (no, not in California!)

The biggest thing that stands out to me is that the average family cannot afford the average house. They can't even come close.

[Moderator]

17. bono71, could you pls edit your title

need to include the entire headline...thanks.

[Bono71]

24. It says it is passed the "edit" time...

[nashville_brook]

20. another result of the housing bubble

people who have bought up (investment) property to rent have to charge enough to cover the mortgage -- we have soooooo many unoccupied rentals in my neighborhood!

just wait until the bubble bursts -- we are already seeing rents fall here. it's going to be ugly!

[m0nkeyneck]

35. if you've been squirreling $$$$

…for the last few years instead of investing in real-estate or stock market, good times are ahead.

[abelenkpe]

37. why do yoiu think that? nt

[m0nkeyneck]

41. scoop up on foreclosures and wait...

for the next bubble ..2015?

[theboss]

112. It's hard to see it as a bubble when it has been going on for a decade...

As the saying goes, the thing about land is that they are not making more of it. These "bubbles" as you call them are localized. I honestly don't know what is going to cause the DC/MD/VA "bubble" to pop. 9/11 didn't. The collapse of AOL didn't. AOL keeps laying off and housing around its headquarters rose between 10 and 15 percent last year. Unless people are going to stop moving here, it should continue unabated.

Of course, if I was a property owner an hour from the District in Faquier County, I may be worried about a bubble. But prices there are connected to prices inside the Beltway, and I just don't see a circumstance where they are going to go down. I could be naive. But a condo in my neighborhood that sold for $60,000 in 1986 now goes for $230,000. What other investment returns 400 percent in 18 years?

[abelenkpe]

122. see

I've been wondering the same thing. Everyone keeps saying the housing bubble will burst, but it hasn't. I'm in LA and I've wanted to buy but have been afraid to since I know people who say their homes seriously lost value when the market went down in the early 90's. I've had real estate people even tell me now is not a good time to buy. I'm weary of waiting for the 'pop.' I do think the economy is headed for a dive. I just don't know how it will effect real estate; will it make it more affordable or will owning a home become even less of a possibility?

[theboss]

89. I've been hearing that in DC and Northern VA for five years

Just wait 'til the bubble bursts...just wait 'til the bubble bursts. It was supposed to burst when the Republicans came to town in 2000. It was supposed to burst when AOL collapsed. Well, similar properties to mine have increased in value between 10 and 15 percent in the last 6 MONTHS. The last year has been the hottest yet in what has become a 10 year growth period. I'm not sure I'm buying that mantra any longer.

Even in San Francisco since the tech industry collapse, rents and properties are still sky-high.

[Runcible Spoon]

21. there are so many factors that make rent expensive.

in my city, there are laws against more than 2 "unrelated" (non-immediate family) tenants from living in a house/apartment. So either you have to live in expensive 1 or 2 bedroom apts (most college apts are 3 or 4 bedroom half-houses), or you and your housemates are at the mercy of slumlords who allow you to live illegally but don't provide decent services adn maintenance.

[GOPBasher]

25. Things are going to get so much worse than they already are.

There are so many signs. Oh well, no one can blame me, I voted for Gore and Kerry.

[Logansquare]

28. You should get a load of some of the comments on the Yahoo board

In summation, "Kill the poor"
It's truly sad, especially in this season.

[abelenkpe]

40. Ug.

I cannot even look at that Yahoo board. It is filled with so much ignorance and hate. Such a sad statement on our society. Things are truly grim. Sometimes I am convinced the pretense of Civilization hangs by a mere thread.

[AlienGirl]

47. "Sudden and light as that, the bonds gave

And we learned of finalities besides the grave."

It hangs by a fraying thread, I think...

Tucker

[Stinky The Clown]

42. My Polly Anthony Plan to have Affordable Housing

Call me an idealist - a Polly Anthony if you will - but here's a plan for a one-on-one housing solution.

We are currently doing this in Baltimore.

We bought a rowhouse, one in a half-way decent area, with a real chance for appreciation, as the area has a history already of appreciation and is the part of the area where the full impact of appreciation from gentrification is just staring to happen.

The house is small but livable. The tenant is doing the rehab and we're buying the materials. He's paying below market rate and living there while he rehabs. We have agreed to sell the property when the work is done .... maybe a year or two, maybe more. During the rehab we get full benefit of the tax deductions (which have been significant for us). At the end, we get the appreciation, but have agreed to split it with the tenant at an agreed-to percentage. He can then walk away with some cash and and a few years of living at below market rate ..... or he can buy us out and get the mortgage in his name.

Could we make more by taking a more "businesslike" stance? Probably. But we're not losing, either. And we're giving a hand up not a hand out.

[Megahurtz]

44. Well that's just good for if you have the money to buy

Who the fuck has the money to buy???

Certainly NOT me. :shrug:

[Stinky The Clown]

45. Actually, many people have the money to buy.

The key is matching up people who have the money to buy with those, like you, who don't, but would be willing to invest time and sweat instead of dollars.

And why are you attacking me when I'm actually doing something about the issue? I am fortunate to be able to, so I am. I like to consider it compassionate capitalism.

[Bono71]

54. In a way, you are a mini-habitat for humanity.

[Megahurtz]

116. Sorry, but

I just don't see anything compassionate about capitalism.

[abelenkpe]

48. my brother

is thinking about doing the same thing in Richmond. I hope you do well!

[Bono71]

50. Excellent idea, I think it is a great plan.

[Quetzal]

52. No Shit

I am looking for an apartment in the Honolulu Area and it sure is a bitch!!! I will have to work at least 55 hour weeks just to be able to live in this city (including food, housing, etc.)

I am lucky I live in Hawaii - and I am not just talking about the good weather - it is because of the mandatory health care that employers are forced to provide for their employees. I get basic medical, vision, dental, and prescription drugs (however, I don't need prescription drugs or vision).

[SKKY]

53. $1250.00 for a crap 2 bedroom (750 sq. ft.) in Chula Vista...

...It's unbelievable how much rent is in SoCal. I'm glad I'm leaving here soon.

[Stinky The Clown]

56. Not much better in Baltimore

A 1000 SF rowhouse in the inner city can run upwards of that in some areas. And much more in certain areas.

In the worst parts of town, however, it is much less.

[Cobalt Violet]

65. Does that come complete with roaches?

Or do they charge extra for them?

[SKKY]

68. They charge for roaches, but the smelly carpet came free of charge...n/t

[AllyCat]

58. Really? How surprising!

NPR made a huge deal about his on Nothing Considered tonight. I mean, a $15.50/hour job just to keep a 2 bdr apartment with utility payments in a major city...gosh is that real?

Frickin' morans! What did they think it was gonna be?

[ckramer]

60. Rent control is the only answer

it's shame the democrats went along with the republican on this issue.

Now more and more poor people are out on the street.

[indigo5]

64. Shameless GOP defends situation...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/bambenek/90485.html

Incredible...

[Cobalt Violet]

74. That idiot's own numbers prove the problem.

"Federal minimum wage: $5.15. Full time = 40 hrs x 4 weeks

$5.15 x 160 = $824/mo

Take this apartment. Rent: $395/mo, + 21 in fees, and heck, through in parking. That's $461/mo. You have to pay heat and electric, but that's not going to be $400, it's about $150/mo for my 1500 square foot house. That already breaks their definition by quite a bit."


What he doesn't include is the reality of take home pay which would be about $666/mo. Then deduct 461/mo.rent. and $150/ utilites. And you have about $55/mo. for food, clothing, transportion, health care, and education. $55.00.

And they wonder why Wal-Mart's sales are so bad this season.

[durablend]

75. 40 hour/week minimum wage job?

Yeah, GOOD LUCK finding one of those. Most of those low end jobs aren't going to give you 40 hours a week...you'll be lucky to see 30 hours a week in many of them (and that's assuming you're not cut some weeks to little or nothing)

[livinginphotographs]

76. You have to wonder if his guy still lives at home.

To show such ignorance towards what it costs to live today makes me think he has no concept of supporting himself or a family.

[durablend]

88. "At that income level...you are getting ALL KINDS OF ASSISTANCE"

Boy he's REALLY out of touch with reality...assuming that "hypothetical" person is single and making that $824 a month, I'm almost certain that he's going to be denied a lot of that assistance as he's making too much money. My mother is getting only a SS check for mid-high $800s/month and the only things she's eligible for is Medicare part B reimbursement and LIHEAP (the heating grant). Income is too high for anything else.

Me thinks these uppity repukes need to live life like the "little people" and see what things are really like in the "real world" and not in the little bubble they exist in. :eyes:

[durablend]

90. Bad form but I had to add...

That response from "cubiclesamurai" REALLY takes the cake. Take home a minimum wage salary, have shelter/utility/car/other payments paid, AND a kid, AND have three meals a day (not to mention have $150 left over!)?

BULL SHIT--NOT ON THIS PLANET BUB!

(probably another basement dweller--sounds like it)

[livinginphotographs]

103. But...but...but...!

"I know this because my sociology teacher made us do a project."

End of discussion! He did a project!

I bow down before his all-knowing, all-powerful sociology project!

[durablend]

123. Savage's "butt boy" harping on it tonight

Whoever his guest "ass kisser" is...the typical freeper diatribe

"They're too lazy"

"Well what did they expect on minimum wage?" (or "they should be glad we let them live"...he was probably thinking that, he didn't say it)

"Do lots of HARD WERK and increase those wittle skills and that company you WERK for will pay you BIG!"

"Unions SUCK"

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....

At least Savage is entertaining (even if he is an idiot)...this guy is just an imbecille.

[gorbal]

124. Only the rich get assistence

Didn't you know that, you silly human;)

[dissenting crone]

61. The Poor

Can take a dollar and stretch it farther than those who harp on our inability to "manage our money".

There's an ancient saying: "You can't do business from an empty wagon", or what my mother used to call "trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip."

If, as someone suggested, a reality show were presented with some of these richies having to live a year in the shoes (or no-shoes) of the genuinely poor, not only would the ratings for the show catapult, but somebody, somewhere might learn something.

No, I know that won't happen, but I can fantasize.

[Sugarbleus]

70. Right up my ally. I've been on this subject for MONTHS..

There is a housing crisis for MOST Americans. Whether people cannot afford to buy or rent..OR for those just trying to KEEP their house while the economy goes to hell.

I'm absolutely, adamantly PRO REGULATION OF EVERYTHING, including investments, stock market...that whole fucking pile driver institution.

HOUSING IS A RIGHT! Especially in a modern world. This runaway, GREEDY investment climate is what drives the costs of everything.

I think buying and selling of property for PROFIT ONLY..IS CRIMINAL. Buy your g.damned houses and LIVE IN THE SUCKERS. If you have to move, you make a small profit for transition costs for another dwelling.

If rental housing is built, there need to be LAWS that protect the tenants and the owners. The tenants do their part, the owners leave them alone...no grandfathering of rental contracts or any subsidizing. A deal is a deal.

Bring DOWN the interest rates for housing loans. Make it easy for anyone, who choses, to buy a dwelling to live and die in. Those with ENORMOUS BUCKS can live in their palaces, just leave some room for the rest of humanity who just wants a place to live out their lives and raise their families.

I LOVE Twigs idea of "ownership" ..yeah right, got any idea of how many people dream of owning something?????????? Jesus Christ, we're just now talking about the hardship of renting for crying out loud.

I believe, after we get the fascists out of power, we should work to change the entire system. Bring down the costs of everything. So some people won't get the "profit" from their housing "investment"...BE GLAD YOU STILL HAVE A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD. I'm working on housing in my area right now. It's a long shot, but I have to make this move because things aren't going to get any better by doing nothing and throwing our hands up.

There's sooooooooo much waste in Government, so much misuse of tax payers dollars, too much government spending on shit, so much corruption in the stock market and the corporate world....fix that and start making life worth living in America. Bring back the American dream and continue to help those who fall between the cracks. WE CAN DO THAT, if we have the will.

In terms of section 8, I know * has set into motion the gutting of that program as well. TOO MANY people have to use that program now because everything else is TOO EXPENSIVE (DUH)..driven by the investment houses/investors/corporations et al.

People have been concerned about HUD for years...a LOT of corruption and waste in that program. WEll, instead of killing it, FIX IT. Throw the bums out and streamline the process for one thing. I want to see HUD or some other government agency or private, buy up older dwellings in settled neighborhoods--here and there, bring them up to proper standards and let renters rent for as long as they need them without restrictions (the owner still gets his rent and a tax break) OR let people rent to own...without restrictions (the owners pay their taxes as appropriate which goes back into the coffers)

Of course all of this still depends on the "investment" mongers. This shit about buying and selling money and funds, and corporate take overs/merging etc, is criminal! I'm SICK of turning on the radio or TV and watching miles of ticker tape info about the "housing market" the S & P, Dow jones, Fannie Mae...blah blah blah........ THAT IS NOT WORK. What happened to creating things, doing work with your hands? This is going to be the downfall of mankind. It needs to be brought under control immediately.

[Megahurtz]

108. I agree with you,Sugarbleus!

:kick:

[Cobalt Violet]

71. But lets bring in lots more low wage guest workers.

No one ever talks about housing them.

[Vickiela]

78. Living wage and Payroll tax

First we need to pay people a Living wage. I am not sure that would even be enough for rent in some metro markets. Around NYC - difficult.

My area - Buffalo, NY easier on a Fedral Living Wage at 10.00/Hour?

The true killer for the working poor is not income tax because with Earned Income Tax Credit it should be 0% but they still pay 7.65% from each paycheck for payroll taxes.

Find a way to eliminate that for the working poor and Middle class.
I struggle being Self Employed and paying the full 15.3% in payroll taxes plus income taxes. I am my own employer and have to pay the other half of payroll tax.

Now your take home pay can afford some decent housing in most markets.

The WalMarts buy so much cheap goods from overseas they could pay their workers a living wage and still be cheaper than other stores.

If I spent $1.00 more everytime I go to McDonald's for lunch would that support paying them a Living wage??

Would a Living Wage than Solve the Social Security/Medicare funding issue because you just increased revenue to the Treasury??

Would it solve budget deficit because you just increased revenue on from income tax on those higher wages??

Could that get passed in a Republican Congress because it is not a tax increase?? but does bring in more revenue??

Could you require a Living wage in order to allow tax cuts to pass for Republicans?? Reduce the taxes on the Rich man's investmetn in McDonald's but making him pay his employees a decent living wage.

Now that is a positive idea we can add to a Democratic Agenda.

[ucmike]

80. i bought instead of renting, it was cheaper

i was 2 yrs out of college, living at mom's, making very good money at a construction management position and couldn't afford to rent here in north/central nj. i was looking at studio apartments for $1200 a month, 1 bedroom for $1500 plus utilities. i looked at an apartment over a garage where the garage was heated but the apartment wasn't. the owner told me that since the apartment was above, the heat from the garage would take care of it. huh?? that place also had a 2nd story deck. "had" is the key word, the deck had collapsed into a pile 15' below the doorway-which still opened to the non-existent deck. the only thing in my price range were in crack neighborhoods. i don't have a problem with that, but i can't afford to leave work everyday and have my apartment broken into because the neighbors watched me leave. (not rascist-i was clearly being watched when i pulled into the lot, lets say i stood out).
i was reaching the point where i was ready to live at mom's forever, then stumbled across a "fixer upper" in need of major renovation on the first day it was listed. i killed several other propsective bidders and locked up the deal (jk, but in NJ its not unbelievable that someone would be killed over closing dates and such) i was able to get it for about 1/2 of what my monthly rent would've been. the catch was that i spent every night for a year working on it.
i was making a good living and couldn't rent affordably by myself. i can't imagine what its like for people without decent jobs and situations.

[genieroze]

82. I own in NJ but I'm wondering how affordable it will be if * has his way

and gets rid of deductions?

[shrike]

91. Been there, done that

Oh God, the dumps I had to rent ... and all because I refused to blow every cent of my paycheck on rent every month.

Good on you, mike. I married my way out of the rental market -- my husband-to-be already had a house. We've paid off our mortgage, added a bathroom, redone the kitchen and basement; new furnace and air conditioning. And with the size of our lot -- two acres in the city limits -- the place is bound to appreciate.

So glad to be off that treadmill.

[ucmike]

94. sounds like my list....

i doubt i will ever find a deal like this again and will probably stay put in this house for a while... unless i leave nj, which seems like an appealing "plan b" a lot of the time.

[genieroze]

81. Well duh. eom

[ckramer]

84. Believe it or not, the Kerry 2004 campaign has totally ignorned this issue

Made me wonder if democratic party is still fighting for the poor?

Housing is a human right - democrats should declare that important principle vociferously - otherwise they will lose the right to lead and become irrelevant politically.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

86. Newburgh, NY a hour 30 minutes north NYC $1,400 a month.......

that's what my daughter pays...that's just for the rent no utilties included, not even water or sewage systems and no garbage removal...INSANE!!!

[theboss]

95. What does it mean that most insane rents are in the most "liberal" areas?

I mean, New York, Boston, San Franciso, LA and DC should be the most progressive cities for this issue? But rent just continues to skyrocket.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

107. Interesting point

But the most liberal areas tend to be the most highly educated, and those are urban areas where land for housing is slim or nonexistant. But of course, a lot of these educated people move to those areas because there aren't jobs for educated people in Podunk, WV. (Hence, the brain drain from rural areas.)

But local government leaders tend to take the position that they need to have low taxes to invite industry, so there's not enough government income (theoretically) to support low-income housing initiatives. And some are directly in the pocket (as we've seen in the DC area) of builders.

[Mabeline]

111. Where we live rent is way out of

most peoples price range unless you have HUD or some other assistance. I've found that most owners want to rent to HUDers and will make the rent higher so those making incomes enough that they don't qualify for HUD cannot afford pay the rent. You have to make really high incomes to afford them, but then most of the time those people just buy their own house.

I have heard that HUD will fix houses if renters destroy it, I'm not sure if it true or not, but I know a few owners and the they do like knowing they will definately get their rent payment every month and not have to deal with non payers.

[rodeodance]

114. so is BushCo listening? Does he/his admin. care?

[guajira]

119. I Have 2 Rentals and Keep the Rents low

Because rents are so high and unaffordable in my Central Florida county, I keep my rents as low as I can. It pays off in the end, my last tenants stayed for 2 years and took very good care of the property.

I also give tenants credit on their rent for doing repairs, landscape, etc. It's a win-win relationship!