ACLU: President authorized interrogation

[mia]

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041220-013312-4438r.htm

Washington, DC, Dec. 20 (UPI) -- An FBI document suggests the president authorized inhumane interrogation methods against Iraqi detainees, the American Civil Liberties Union said Monday.

The document is among those obtained from the government by the ACLU in a Freedom of Information Act suit in New York.

A two-page FBI e-mail refers to "a presidential executive order," and contends President Bush directly authorized interrogation techniques that included sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc.," The ACLU said.

The FBI e-mail was sent in May 2004 from "On Scene Commander -- Baghdad" to senior FBI officials....


Interesting that The Washington Times is the first to break this story.

[OneBlueSky]

1. is there an international body charged with enforcing . . .

the Geneva Conventions? . . . is it the UN? . . . whatever the body (if there is one), why aren't they leveling charges against the US and the Bush administration? . . .

[rooboy]

8. The US is charged with enforcing the Geneva Conventions.

As one of the victors of WWII, the US is one of the powers DIRECTLY responsible for enforcing the Geneva conventions. It isn't the UN's job.

[renaissanceguy]

72. No, it's the UN

that's in charge. The UN and their international laws/conventions trump any laws of any country that signs on. This includes the U.S.

-------------------------
Buy outspoken political merchandise at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[rooboy]

73. The Geneva Conventions are NOT a United Nations resolution.

and the USA originally signed onto them in the late 1800's. As a signatory, the USA has a responsibility to enforce their provisions.

This does not require the authority of the UN.

[aggiesal]

90. War Crimes in The World Court, The Hague Netherlands

The Geneva Convention War Crimes are tried in the World Court in The Hague Netherlands.
Unfortunately, the Geneva Convention only applies to War Prisoners,
and early on, King George's administration deemed prisoners caught
would be "Enemy Combatants". Therefore, they are not under the Geneva
Convention rules.
Don't expect any indictments from this. And, if there are, don't
expect King George to honor them.

[Pachamama]

103. Although didn't Bush in Monday's press conference refer to the detainees

at Gitmo as people scooped off the Battlefield? (or something like that)...I remember as I listened to him that I thought the words he said would come back to haunt him and be used to prove that these people should be qualified as "Prisoners of War" and therefore the Geneva Conventions would apply. However, even if not, I believe Geneva Conventions or not, the Hague and the International Criminal Court would still try on crimes against humanity.

I do by the way expect there to be some court actions by the world court and also in separate courts in various countries (ie. Germany where a case just got filed).

King George might not honor them, but he'll be dishonored by them.

History will not be kind to W....

[underpants]

96. Aricle VI of the US Constitution makes the Geneva conventionS

the law of the land.

[rkc3]

9. Maybe it's the UN and the fundie assault against Annan is being done

to de-ligitimize to organization in the face of this accusation/evidence.

[Supersedeas]

83. Last of Days: UN Sec Gen vs. Jesus (Genova Conventions be damned)

[Just Me]

22. U.S. sought and secured certain exemptions from the U.N.

However, war crimes and human right violations are being pursued by the CCR in, I believe, Germany.

On edit: I should have read the whole thread,...GottaB posted this explanation further down.

[CaptAhab]

77. We the people

Is there an international body charged with enforcing the Geneva Conventions?

The Geneva Conventions are part of the supreme law of the United States, as per Article VI of the United States Constitution. So it's up to the government to uphold the law, and we the people make sure that the government does its job.

[OneBlueSky]

82. in that case, I move that "we, the people" . . .

boot his sorry ass out of the White House and into the closest federal penitentiary . . .

[manxkat]

84. OK, that does it. We, the undersigned, from the planet

Z'Antuu have been observing your world for years, and we've finally seen enough. This so-called "president" of the so-called "United" States is getting away with murder and torture. Since there is no longer any accountability, there are no checks and balances, and no media is left to report the truth to the masses, we will be intervening and creating a New World Order of the Z'Antuusians in order to stop the Americans' insanity and cruelty toward one another and the world's citizens.

Signed:

Z'Ellena
Z'Anastasia
Z'Ewella
Z'Otto

and the honorary Z'Antuusian master of all earthlings, Z'Woogly

[Liberal Veteran]

2. It's no big thing....

After all, don't you remember that Bush is a Christian and the part of the bible where Jesus tortured sinners?

I specifically remember the tale of the fallen woman, where Jesus sicced a dog on her until she repented!

[KenCarson]

5. we used to act that one out in sunday school

ahhha....memories....i'm getting misty eyed

[goforit]

93. Oh my God.........Christian Righters cover your ears!!!

LOL!!!!

This is just too funny.

[maddezmom]

3. ah, wasn't the story before that rummy was the one that authorized these

techniques??? Me thinks this is one of the reasons * has been protecting him for so long.

[zann725]

102. Not protecting him as much...as 'keeping him close' to take the 'fall'

for Shrubco.

Although I believe Rumsfield 'came back into the foll' for what he perceives as WH legal protection from the World Court. Unfortunately, Shrubco has to throw someone to the 'dogs'...and it seems it'll be Rumsfield.

[HereSince1628]

4. So, will Germany indict Bush along with Rumsfeld?

Or has the ACLU just given Rummy the nazi-esque "I was just doing what I was told, defense?"

[gottaB]

6. CCR and the German courts may be as close as we get to justice

And I'm not so sure about the Germans. Unless this is a big issue in the 2006 elections, which I rather doubt, I fear Bush will skate.


The Rumsfeld indictment:

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=TCRlT9TuSb&Content=471

Maybe they'll just amend it to add Bush. Hmm.

[TahitiNut]

30. List of Defendants:

List of Defendants:
1. Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez
2. Major General Walter Wojdakowski
3. Brigadier General Janis L. Karpinski
4. Lieutenant Colonel Jerry L. Phillabaum
5. Colonel Thomas Pappas
6. Lieutenant Colonel Stephen L. Jordan
7. George Tenet
8. Major General Geoffrey Miller
9. Dr. Stephen Cambone
10. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

---

I love this list ... some of whom look good to implicate the Chimperor.

[Swamp Rat]

31. Glad to see Cambone on this list too

It's a start but a lot more names need to be added.

[alfredo]

41. Go after the little guys, to get them to turn.

Karpinski got thrown to the dogs, She might be the one they could turn. She was the only woman involved and the one made to take a fall.

[caligirl]

66. There is someone missing from the list

Its a senior female Army Officer other than Karpinski. she may be an intelligence officer. She was in the news as well. Can't remember a name.

[TahitiNut]

69. Yup. She's at Fort Huachuca in Arizona, now.

If any of the "investigations" requested are done, she'll get hers.

[roguevalley]

7. he loves to hurt and kill. he's a sadist. this is just the proof on paper.

[goforit]

94. My God........,Ya should of seen what he did w/ his death-row in Texas

He laughed, giggled and licked his chops every time
each one was sizzled.

This was the day he proved to me he was a sick !@#$

[Florida_Geek]

10. This was in the Moonie Times

I am amazed.

[ScrewyRabbit]

35. Yes, but the headline should've substituted the word "torture"

for "interrogation"...

[whosinpower]

11. If this is true

The it is HUGE. We have troops who are being charged and imprisoned for carrying out an executive order by the president.

This IS grounds for impeachment IMHO.

[atreides1]

15. Don't You Get It

There is nothing that this president can do that would be considered an impeachable offense.

We all should just accept the fact, this man could be seen on national television shooting a child, and those 59 million who voted for him would be the first ones to defend him. Falwell and Robertson
would say that he should be forgiven for what he did, because he's a good man, and the Republican controlled Congress would pass a special
bill to pardon him.


Nothing that this man does is viewed as wrong by his supporters, short of another 1776, this man will never be brought to justice, so
quit with the fantasies.

Just accept the reality, that he can do no wrong!!!!!!

[cal04]

17. Sadly, I think you're right

No matter what this man does, they just keep defending him

[whosinpower]

19. I understand what you saying

And we heard a variety of impeachable issues during his first term - but this is really serious.

This undermines the very fabric of American culture and society as a free nation representing freedom and liberty across the planet. It puts America into a moral crisis of the highest order.

I was always against the Iraq war primarily because I felt it was unjustified and aggressive wars of choice never turn out positively for the instigator in the long run....but there was a small portion of restraint set aside that I would support this IF democracy would prevail in Iraq. Authorizing these sorts of interrogation techniques delegitimizes the very credibility in which democratic reform is meant to occur in Iraq.

If there is no leader who will stand firm and state the obvious - then the system is undeniable broken and we have arrived into a facsist state.

[leesa]

64. "this is really serious"...never mind the unprovoked invasion of a UN

compliant country. Of course it's serious, but so is the initial crime. And that includes carpet bombing Afghanistan, from which a HANDFUL of ALLEGED terrorists came from. We have no idea who did 9-11 because there has never been an investigation and yet we murdered tens of thousands of Afghans.

[atreides1]

70. It's Already Happening, My Friend

The system is broken and the road to a facist state was opened the day that Bush signed the 9/11 Bill into law.

To those like us, the US did represent freedom and liberty, but now
those things are no longer important to the ultra rich and the religious zealots who are only interested in the personal power that they wish to possess.

All that matters is the ability to control every aspect of life, and that my friend is what those who support Bush want more then anything.


"There is always Hope"
Aragorn

[tavalon]

85. Ooh, you said the "F" word

Yep, welcome to fascism.

[Just Me]

25. Accepting "what is" can be tough. However,...

,...no matter how talented most of us are at anticipating the consequences of certain actions (i.e. the aftermath pertaining to an aggressive war of choice against Iraq),...we still cannot claim to know the future. Watergate and Nixon's resignation shocked some Americans, made joyous other Americans, completely baffled still others.

Ya' just never really know what the future may deliver.

[Old Mouse]

26. That's no child, it's a mini-terrorist

We are running out of time before this madman assumes absolute global power.

[UpInArms]

29. the fundies think they have a "get out of hell" free card

the way I have had it explained to me is that once a person is "saved" they cannot be "unsaved" - therefore everything they do is sanctioned by gawd and they are going to heaven - doesn't matter who they kill, how much they steal, what they lie about - they are FREE!

Whew!

What a relief they must feel.

[pokercat999]

74. Wish I knew this earlier, just how does one go about getting

saved. I'm tired of being a decent human being, sounds like being "saved" would be more fun.

[tavalon]

87. Do you want to have to hang out with those creepazoids?

Go to a Southern Baptist church - they can help you out with that.

[tavalon]

86. Isn't that amazing and so simple minded

I was a Southern Baptist as a teenager. Luckily I didn't end up there until I was 13 and so I wasn't completely brainwashed and I asked too many questions whose answers were not acceptable to me. I left when I was nineteen. Sadly, while I was there I did one of those "born again" things. I really hope they aren't right because I don't want to end up with those flunkys if the rapture thing happens.

[Bush was AWOL]

38. This makes me furious!

I had a feeling he knew from the beginning.

[Just Me]

43. This regime "planned" to avoid consequences,...

,...and that will be the meat of their downfall.

Such planning would make any NORMAL, all-American, PATRIOTIC human being,...FURIOUS!!!!

Be patient, persistent and passionate.

Don't give up,...ever.

[CoffeeCat]

62. I remember Rush Limbaugh discussing impeachment...

About 5 weeks ago, Rush Limbaugh spent a good half hour discussing the inevitability that the Dems would try to impeach Bush for the Iraqi prison scandal.

At that time, no information about Bush's involvement was out.

Maybe this is to what Limbaugh was referring?

Limbaugh gets his talking points from the White House. I knew something was coming down the pike. This administration always attempts to propagandize several steps ahead of the true story being released. That way the mind-numbed robots who listen to Limbaugh have their sound bytes memorized, and the minions carry the lies to the masses and influence the debate.

Revolting.

[Occulus]

63. And since they don't know that

it makes him "right" in their eyes.

"See, they're suing over Abu Ghraib- just like Rush said they would! Tola ya... Rush is always right!!!"

We have to find a way to counter this. I think the Dems need to open the spigot and tell every single little dirty secret they can. Who knows what'll blow up if they do.

[CoffeeCat]

65. I can hear Rush's follow up now...

Can't you just hear Rush...

"I told you folks! I told you these liberals are desperate, sore losers who will do anything to take down our president! I predicted it a month ago. I told you so! This is what these people do! When they're not in power, they grab for it any way they can..."

If Rush predicts the Abu Ghraib suit BEFORE it hits--and successfully position the complaints against Bush as liberal, sore-loser rantings--then the accusations against Bush are discredited, even before the story is out of the gate.

Furthermore, the entire argument gets re-framed. No longer is the focus on Bush's criminal behavior. It's on those nasty, evil liberals who hate the president, "Bush did nothing wrong! You guys are just sore losers drumming up false allegations because you wanted Kerry to win!"

Then, the argument is no longer, "Did Bush order inhumane and sadistic treatment of prisoners and violate Geneva?"...it's all about how horrible and bitter the liberals are.

That's how the neocons get out of trouble. They get the right-wing media to destroy the truth with name calling, hyperbole, lies, red-herrings and all sorts of bunk that the administration cannot say themselves.

Just get Rush or a few Swift Boat cons to spew the venom--and you're golden.

Kinda gives ya a warm, fuzzy feeling doesn't it?

[bling bling]

67. LOL

"I told you folks! I told you these liberals are desperate, sore losers who will do anything to take down our president! I predicted it a month ago. I told you so! This is what these people do! When they're not in power, they grab for it any way they can..."

That sounded JUST like him!! And just think, he gets paid something like $24,000,000.00 to spew that crap. I think I could spend an hour a day going off on "liberals" to an audience of drooling clueless sheep for that kind of money.

[proud patriot]

12. at the encouragement of Gonzales no doubt

x(

[catlawyer]

13. Info direct from ACLU

Found the original information on the ACLU site:

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/fbi.html

[Malva Zebrina]

14. No wonder the attacks on the ACLU lately

the guy is a sadist, no doubt. This perverted impulse may be what will take him down.

[gottaB]

21. Yes, that probably is behind the attacks on ACLU

Merry Christian Torture!

[cal04]

16. FBI E-Mail Refers to Presidential Order Authorizing

FBI E-Mail Refers to Presidential Order Authorizing Inhumane Interrogation Techniques


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [e-mail]

Newly Obtained FBI Records Call Defense Department’s Methods "Torture," Express Concerns Over "Cover-Up" That May Leave FBI "Holding the Bag" for Abuses

NEW YORK -- A document released for the first time today by the American Civil Liberties Union suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq. Also released by the ACLU today are a slew of other records including a December 2003 FBI e-mail that characterizes methods used by the Defense Department as "torture" and a June 2004 "Urgent Report" to the Director of the FBI that raises concerns that abuse of detainees is being covered up.

"These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widespread detainee abuse ultimately rests," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. "Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers."

The documents were obtained after the ACLU and other public interest organizations filed a lawsuit against the government for failing to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request.

more
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206

[Divernan]

18. Next Bush will award himself the Freedom Medal for torturing terraists.

Given the all time high level of racism and hatred of all arabs and Muslims, the Washington Times may have been told to break this story because it will up Bush's popularity ratings with all the hate-filled fundies and neocons. Last week the 35-ish white male clerk at the Baskin-Robbins store wished me a merry Christmas when he handed me my change. I said, "I can't really have a merry Christmas when so many people are suffering and dying in Iraq." He said he hated all the Iraqis because they were getting gas for "5 cents a gallon", but "We're (the U.S.) killing thousands of them!"
Then on a plane I sat next to a very young couple with a 3 or 4 month old baby boy. The dad had a short, military style haircut. The baby was wearing a camo t shirt! I'm surprised they didn't have a pacifier shaped like a toy gun! What's next? Maybe the fundies will dress baby Jesus in the manger in a camo diaper!
I recall seeing photos of Klu Klux Klan gatherings where there would be little kids dressed up in white sheets and hoods. I'm telling you, the more poverty we have in this country, the more easily the poor and undereducated, i.e., cannon fodder, will be brain-washed into blaming "foreigners" and non-fundies for the
miserable lives they (US poor) lead.

[NVMojo]

52. lordie, you just reminded me of those photos that went around

showing KKK assholes with dead black people hanging from trees or stacked up like pieces of dead wood trophies ...they were part of that photo exhibit a couple of years ago to expose the ugliness of it all. Wonder if Bush got a woodie when he saw those and then had to create his own southern comfort? I hate these neocon people and their smirking arrogance ...

http://www.americanlynching.com/photos-old.htm

[LynnTheDem]

20. I had a dream where bush denied any and all knowledge of abuse/torture

Was a very realistic dream.

[Chicago Democrat]

23. Go Moonie Times!

Hell I'll take the devils help at this point.

[Old Mouse]

27. Hey hey hey! Careful now...

Just because he has a bad habit of throwing people down elevator shafts doesn't mean he's not the second coming. :evilgrin:

[Maine-ah]

24. letter

I think I'm actually afraid to sign that letter. :scared:

[mia]

28. WT update with UPI Legal Affairs Correspondent

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041220-013140-6821r.htm

By Michael Kirkland
Washington, DC, Dec. 20

...In a statement, the ACLU urged the White House to confirm or deny the existence of the order referred to in the message and to release it immediately if it exists.

"The FBI agent was mistaken regarding the existence of an Executive Order on interrogation techniques. No such Executive Order exits or has ever existed," a senior administration official told United Press International.

"The Department of Defense determines the methods of interrogation of military detainees in the Iraq conflict. Any directions to the military regarding particular interrogation techniques emanated from within the Department of Defense.

"Again, the agent was mistaken. No such Executive Order exists or ever existed," the official said....

[Disturbed]

32. The Shrub will survive....

Rumsfailed may not.


Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also proscecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

=========================
Q: Senator Jack Reed (Dem, RI): "If you were shown
a video of a United States Marine or an American
citizen in control of a foreign power, in a cell block,
naked with a bag over their head, squatting with their
arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that
as a good interrogation technique or a violation of
the Geneva Convention?"

A: Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff: "I would describe it as a violation."

A: Paul D. Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense: "What
you've described to me sounds to me like a violation of the
Geneva Convention."

Thursday, May 13, 2004, Senate Armed Services Committee hearings

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-20...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-2004May13.htm

Friday 17 December 2004

“Scott Horton, a New York lawyer and president of the International League for Human Rights, has spent months investigating the role Bush administration officials played in the torture scandal. He says there is mounting evidence - including the May 10 FBI e-mail - that strongly suggests that Rumsfeld and his top intelligence aides were directly responsible for the wholesale abandonment of legal and ethical norms as well as international treaty obligations. Now that Republican senators and neoconservative ideologues are publicly turning their backs on the defense secretary, perhaps even he may someday be held accountable for this disgraceful stain on the honor of the U.S. armed forces.”

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121804X.shtml




Does the US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

[gottaB]

33. Lie! I want that official's name

[mia]

39. Frederick Jones is quoted here.

The memo includes several references to an "executive order" signed by President Bush, but two government officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said that was an error and that the reference was to Defense Department directives.

White House officials also said the memo's reference to an executive order from the president was a mistake.

"No such executive order exists or has ever existed," said Frederick Jones, a spokesman for the National Security Council.



http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/politics/10462423.htm

[TexasChick]

40. I wonder if the American Civil Liberties Union already has a copy of this

"executive order" or do you think it's already met its demise through the WH shredder?

It would be good if they already have this in their hands, if not, it will definitely be tough to prove Bush's involvement. (I know you already knew this, mia, I'm just saying though....I just hope they already have a copy of it).

[mia]

44. 'Redacted' copies of the emails are posted here,

I hope that they prove his involvement too.


http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/fbi.html

[Just Me]

45. Ewwww *LOL*,...we live in a CYA culture,...

,...and you can betcha' butt,...THEE authentic or something legally permissible is out there.

This really tickles me.

Oh, my o' my,...the "games" that must be playin'.

*giggle*

It's so cool to laugh while certain "evil-deliverers" are prolly feelin' some gastorintestinal disturbances!!!

:bounce:

[TexasChick]

48. I hope you're right. I think some shredders in the WH have been working

doubley overtime lately. I just hope this document or memo has the Chimp's signature on it somewhere.

[mia]

34. Headline change: Rumsfeld allowed harsh interrogations in Iraq, memo says

Now the same story is being picked up by multiple news sources. Amazing.

The fix is in for Rumsfeld.

[maddezmom]

36. see post #3

but * will protect him until the end of all time, or until it suits him to cut his loses. Like with Kerik.

[gottaB]

71. Headline altered based on the statements of Frederick Jones?

It seems to have become common journalistic practice to suppress authoritative, documented claims of wrongdoing by the Bush administration in favor of weak official denials.

Yeah, the fix is in.

[johnfunk]

37. Time to light the Gonzalez-Rummy-Smirk Christmas Tree...

[Ian David]

42. They can freep this all they want

But the genie is out of the bottle.

Now, all we need is an intern, a blue dress, and a white stain and then MAYBE we'll be rid of Bushler.

[rodeodance]

46. I have been flippings the news tonight and have not heard anything!!

[Sara Beverley]

47. IBN! Impeach Bush Now!!! When will the nation wake up?

When will Bush be held accountable for anything he does?

[rodeodance]

49. Bush is off the hook according to Knight Ridder story--he can do no wrong.

[adigal]

50. I doubt he's off the hook

This is what happens when you screw the CIA - I bet, somehow, they are behind all of the "loose" documents. Why would anyone with a brain in his head fire and piss off the most talented undercover people in the world???? Is this the meaning of "hubris"?

[spooked911]

99. Sadly, once any scandal gets too hot, Bush can just order up a nice new

terror attack, then declare martial law.

We are so screwed.

Unless some of the evil fuckers in his administration decide he needs to go for some reason.

[AuntiBush]

51. UnFricked Real!!!

We all know where the "buck" is suppose to stop. How does he get away with so much atrosities, I mean, unreal!!!

[genieroze]

53. Here is the original

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206

edit added this

I just posted this all over the usenet to other countries. eom

[indigo5]

56. Blogger with links to the emails

http://www.livejournal.com/users/bambenek/91697.html

Granted, it's a lousy GOPper

[Rose Siding]

54. More extensive coverage; Front page, Tuesday NYT- link

WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 - F.B.I. memorandums portray abuse of prisoners by American military personnel in Iraq that included detainees' being beaten and choked and having lit cigarettes placed in their ears, according to newly released government documents.

The documents, released Monday in connection with a lawsuit accusing the government of being complicit in torture, also include accounts by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents who said they had seen detainees in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, being chained in uncomfortable positions for up to 24 hours and left to urinate and defecate on themselves. An agent wrote that in one case a detainee who was nearly unconscious had pulled out much of his hair during the night.

One of the memorandums released Monday was addressed to Robert S. Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, and other senior bureau officials, and it provided the account of someone "who observed serious physical abuses of civilian detainees" in Iraq. The memorandum, dated June 24 this year, was an "Urgent Report," meaning that the sender regarded it as a priority. It said the witness "described that such abuses included strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into the detainees' ear openings and unauthorized interrogations."

The memorandum did not make clear whether the witness was an agent or an informant, and it said there had also been an effort to cover up the abuses. The writer of the memorandum said Mr. Mueller should be aware of what was occurring because "of potential significant public, media and Congressional interest which may generate calls to the director." The document does not provide further details of the abuse, but suggests that such treatment of prisoners in Iraq was the subject of an investigation conducted by the bureau's Sacramento office.

http://nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/21abuse.html?hp&ex=1103605200&en=544722e5f3c79c54&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[zulchzulu]

55. I wish karma would hurry the fuck up

Chimpy has a lot of bad shit coming his way based on what he has done to the people of the World...it's only a matter of time.

[TexasChick]

58. Amen to that. n/t

[Radio_Lady]

57. Somebody email this to Keith Olbermann...

what's he talking about recently? Would he follow up on this?

[OutsourceBush]

59. that officially makes Bush a war criminal

[truthisfreedom]

60. i could'a told you... i saw it plain as day on the white house xmas card.

[sweetheart]

61. It is really sickening

To read that "our" government has deliberately been authorizing heinous
criminal activity. As long as i can pretend that it was just some
boys out of control, its one thing... but to discover what we've
known all along, that there is a gang of murderous felons in the
white house, makes me feel like puking.

He should be impeached straight away for this. He should be tried
for treason, and his gang should swing from a speciallly built giant
gallows on the white house lawn. No torture for him, just summary
execution, as indeed, the rest of us are a socity of laws.

[usregimechange]

68. kick, spreading around the globe.... nt

[adigal]

75. This story has disappeared

from the Washington Times and other morning editions.

[annabanana]

80. CBS mentioned it briefly on the morning show.............n/t

[underpants]

95. ABC WNT never made the Bush connection

probably scared of mentioning the ACLU :grr:

[Carolab]

97. No it hasn't

the link still works.

[LeftHander]

76. Dumbfuckistan doesn't care.....it's Christmas time....

hear the crickets chirp as the shoppers rush home with their treasure...

[leesa]

78. Excellent. This proves his war crimes.

Germany? Germany? Can you add him to the list along with Rummie? Oh, and the three given medals last week?

[LibDemAlways]

79. CNN briefly mentioned this story

last night with the spin that the order was drafted but never given.
They out and out lied to let the chimp off the hook.

[donkeyotay]

81. they have disgraced us

<<snip>>

A two-page FBI e-mail refers to "a presidential executive order," and contends President Bush directly authorized interrogation techniques that included sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc.," The ACLU said.

<<end>>

Gonzales -- wasn't his rationale about the president being above the law go for measures even beyond the techniques listed?

I can't get over the poor person being found with the lit cigarettes in his ears. What scum we have become.

I remember the Army Times op-ed after Abu Ghraib had become a story, and they said that yeah it was a few bad apples... a few bad apples at the top.

[earlybird]

88. Ok, Now I See...

...why the Repig talking points started going after the ACLU a few weeks ago. (regarding stealing Christmas).

[The Stranger]

89. There's only one problem: No one cares.

Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

[juliagoolia]

91. Pentagon interrogators ‘impersonated’ FBI (Wolfowitz implicated)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-12-2004_pg4_3
snip
“If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, DOD interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done (by) the ‘FBI’ interrogators. The FBI will (be) left holding the bag before the public,” the e-mail said. The impersonation “was approved by the Dep Sec Def,” a Jan. 21, 2004, e-mail stated, referring to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, the Pentagon’s No. 2 official.

[goforit]

92. WOW!!!............This is huge!!!

Not that a damn thing will be done about it since
the GOP won't investigate!

[Fiendish Thingy]

98. a kick for luck in getting this the MSM attention it deserves n/t

[usregimechange]

100. Where is the corporate media? kick, nt

[fooj]

101. Shameless...absolutely outrageous

and unnacceptable from any American! Denigrate and destroy..."Hunt them down" and "smoke-em out"! How barbaric...I am ashamed! What kind of a role model is that?:mad:

[indigobusiness]

104. What goes around, comes around. Payback is a bitch.

The Judas Cradle:

The victim is raised up by the rope or chain and then lowered until the vagina, anus or the coccyx rests on the point. The torturer could vary the pressure by hanging weights from the victim or rocking or raising and dropping the victim from various heights.

[indigobusiness]

105. More torture devices...

The Pope's Pears:

The vaginal pear was used on woman who had sex with the Devil or his familiars. The rectal pear was used on passive male homosexuals and the oral pear was used on heretical preachers or lay persons found guilty of unorthodox practices. Inserted into the mouth, anus or vagina of the victim, the pear was expanded by use of the screw until the insides are ripped, stretched and mutilated, almost always causing death. The pointed ends of the 'leaves' were good for ripping the throat, intestines or cervix open.



Slow Burn
A 16th century device to lift the victim in and out of the fire, roasting him alive slowly instead of burning him all at once.

Crushed. Squeezing heresy out of the foolish

Extreme Makeover

The rack – everybody's favourite. Well, perhaps only of Inquisitors for whom it was the instrument of choice after the pulley had failed. For the helpless victim dislocation of every joint in the body and elongations up to 12" were possible. 'Surgeons' might reset joints to allow the torture to be repeated. Severe lacerations and loss of blood would result from racking even without the additional use of red hot pincers to tear off nipples, tongues, ears, noses, and genitals.



A sadist's banquet – and of course it brought the wretched heretics closer to God.

[Mike Niendorff]

106. notice how they soften "torture" to mere "interrogation".

How convenient for Mr. Bush to have editors that downplay his crimes for him.


MDN

[mia]

107. (Reuters) "U.S.: Did President Bush Order Torture? "

Human Rights Watch

(New York, December 21, 2004) U.S. President George W. Bush should fully explain why an FBI document suggests he authorized unlawful interrogation methods, Human Rights Watch said today. An e-mail to senior FBI officials released yesterday under a Freedom of Information Act request repeatedly referred to an Executive Order that permitted military interrogators in Iraq to place detainees in painful stress positions, impose sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, intimidate them with military dogs and use other coercive methods. "The FBI e-mail is not proof of a presidential order to commit unlawful acts, but it strongly suggests that U.S. interrogators thought they were acting with the president's approval," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "It's no longer enough for Bush to issue a simple denial. A real explanation is needed."

The e-mail was sent to senior members of the FBI on May 22, 2004, more than a year after the Pentagon reputedly disavowed the use of such interrogation methods at Guantanamo Bay. The e-mail makes 11 references to an Executive Order "signed by President Bush" that authorized these abusive interrogation methods. Since yesterday's publication of the document, various executive agencies have denied the existence of such an Executive Order, stating that the FBI agent made a mistake.

Even if there were no formal Executive Order, Human Rights Watch is concerned that the FBI in Iraq believed that the executive branch had authorized certain abusive interrogation methods being employed by U.S. military personnel. Since the reporting of torture at Abu Ghraib, the Bush administration has yet to fully detail the instructions on interrogation and treatment of detainees it has provided to U.S. forces in the field....




"The released documents not only show the brutal torture of prisoners, but they also suggest a new link to the highest levels of the Bush administration," said Roth. "It's time the U.S. government threw out the 'bad apples' argument and took a serious look at the whole barrel."

[mia]

108. NPR: All Things Considered

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4239361

All Things Considered, December 21, 2004 · The latest stack of government documents revealed by the American Civil Liberties Union details interrogation tactics the ACLU regards as inhumane. The group has been obtaining documents regarding the treatment of prisoners in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba under the Freedom of Information Act. NPR's Michele Norris talks with Jameel Jaffer of the ACLU.