LAT: Cheerleading Coach Finds Prayer Not a Team Sport

[NoPasaran]

ATLANTA — A federal judge on Monday denied an appeal for reinstatement by a University of Georgia cheerleading coach accused of mingling religion with team activities. Marilou Braswell was fired in August, according to university officials, for retaliating against a Jewish cheerleader who had complained about pressure to participate in Bible study and team prayers.

The case has drawn attention to sports in Georgia, where coaches often lead players in prayer or worship.

In spring of 2003, the student, Jaclyn Steele, approached authorities with complaints about the cheerleading program. Cheerleaders, she said, were pressured to attend Bible study sessions at the coach's home, led by her husband, a minister. Steele also said Braswell led prayers before sporting events. And Steele complained that the listserv used by cheerleaders was a vehicle for prayer requests.

"She came in our office crying, saying: 'I just can't take this anymore,' " said Deborah Lauter, southeast regional director of the Anti-Defamation League. "She had dealt with this for a long time."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheerleader21dec21.story

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I wonder if Christians realize

how uncomfortable it makes non Christians to say a prayer that ends "in Jesus's name, Amen". When I am in a group where such a prayer is said, I silently add, "And all the other prophets" or "in the name of God". I don't make a fuss, but I can understand how that cheerleader felt, especially if she was not only subject to prayers but to Bible study. Wonder how this coach would have felt if she had been forced to attend the study of the Dammapada or the Upanishads or the Torah or the Qur'an? (Of course, if one studied all of the above, it might be a good thing! But it should never be forced on anyone.)

[Flammable Materials]

6. They realize it. In fact, they're counting on it.

Why else do you think Baptists invented the "altar call"?

[thinkingwoman]

7. what's an "altar call"?

help a jew here.

[hollowdweller]

18. An Alter Call is when in an evangelical mostly fundamentalist type church

they invite members of the audience that have not accepted Jesus to come to the front of the church and kneel at the alter and accept Jesus. Also in some churches people come up and asked to be prayed for for various reasons.

In my town there was this crippled guy who would make the rounds at churches when they did this. He would pull himself to the front as people cried and "amened" at him. It took a while before word got around he was going from church to church doing this. It made for good drama, and that is kinda part of the whole thing I guess.;-)

[thinkingwoman]

24. oh thank you

Wow, that sounds positively, um, touching.

Thanks for the info!

[Walt Starr]

33. I was pressured in a similar fashion when I was 15

A girl I knew invited me to a "rock concert". It was a Christian rock concert (which was okay, I didn't have too much of a problem with it), but the "altar call" at the end had her pushing me to go up. I didn't., That was that.

[UCLA Dem]

44. I always hated when they do shit like that.

I grew up United Methodist and we never did that sort of thing.

I was taught to never push your values and/or beliefs on other people, but I show love though being kind to others.

I was very uncomfortable whenever I went to a Baptist church.

[Ilsa]

36. Any other ex-Baptists or Fundies remember standing through

extremely long altar calls? Some ministers would let them go on for 20-30 minutes while the choir would sing (and get tired of singing). The minister would then say something like,
"I feel The Lord speaking to me. There is someone here who hasn't accepted Jesus. Take that first step to Jesus! You know, we aren't promised another year or week or even another day on God's earth. He could come tomorrow. Death could meet you tomorrow. Are you ready to meet Jesus? Can you tell him why you turned down the chance to proclaim him as your lord and savior today?"

[Walt Starr]

39. LOL, lead singger of the band in my above post said somehting similar

Must be a standard statement from some course they take!

[annabanana]

16. "altar call"?

(Episcopalian in the dark here)

[Lerkfish]

26. Not sure the altar call falls into this category

An altar call at least is something that occurs at a church, where a person attending would expect some sort of call to accept beliefs. In other words, its the correct audience...people that are either curious or wanting to adopt a religious belief.

That is WAY different from forcing people to attend a bible study and prayer time in a secular activity....That's just plain wrong on so many levels.

The altar call (even though I agree there is some peer pressure element to it) is not as wrong, because its in the setting where such a thing would be expected and is part of their own worship regimen. Actually, there's not really anything wrong with it that I can see (except that it may occur at a fundie church). Nothing wrong with people coming to a church and THEN deciding to accept Jesus.

as an analogy: If you went to a perfume counter, wanting to try different perfumes, and the saleslady sprayed you with perfume, that would be ok. You went to a perfume counter, where they sell it, so you could expect that happen. HOWEVER, if you enter the store, and they spritz you with cologne without warning, and you had gone in to buy socks, then that is wrong.

hope that analogy helps.

[cap]

27. i know how it feels even within Christianity

to have one sect force its beliefs on another.

[Tesla]

2. Is it a Christian college?, NO

Nothing like SHOVING your beliefs down someone's throat!

I am sooo sick of the frickin Christians anymore......

I love Christ though......
What does that make me?

[Demit]

3. A real Christian, IMO.

[flygal]

15. Exactly!!

[renaissanceguy]

22. "Lord, save me from your followers."

-----------------------------
http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[genieroze]

35. Amen. eom

[katmondoo]

8. I have a problem

I have never been able to get past the BEGETS in the Bible, thereforeI never have been able to read it. Then when I thumb through it , all I can find is war and killings. What is wrong with me? Yet I am a Christian and I believe in God.

[freestyle]

21. Start with the Gospels and then go elsewhere

There are already enough people who get so caught up in the OT, that they skip all over the message of Jesus' life. Even if you want to read the entire Bible, some parts are more message heavy and some are more historical and really are quite can be boring. They can also be interesting when approached in context and as history. The OT can be roughly divided into history, poetry, major prophets, and minor prophets. The NT can be divided into the life of Christ and the Apostles, Paul, other letters, Revelation. And then there is the Apocrypha, which some denominations acknowledge and some don't. Good, open-minded Bible study can be very enjoyable. If you do read the whole thing, you will see how truly untenable Biblical literalism is. The thing is rife with contradictions, conflicts, and actions that are just wrong.

Of course, no one should be pressured into it, and a public university teacher, which is what a coach really is, has no business pushing her beliefs on her students. What about the first amendment is so difficult to understand?

[earthside]

32. Start With the Gospels-Then STOP

If you want to understand the message and teachings of Jesus ... read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Then STOP.

The rest of the 'books' of the New Testatment are interpretations of what some followers of Jesus thought he meant or wanted him to mean. Indeed, the first 'heretic' is probably Paul, who subverted much of what Jesus said. While Jesus spoke of peace, tolerance, acceptance, etc., Paul started the move right back to legalism and abstract elitist theology.

Even in the Gospels you get a different perspective on Jesus depending upon the author. Matthew is the best for finding out how Jesus said we should approach our lives and our fellow human beings. John, on the other hand, is more interested in religion and the mystical qualities he wants to see in Jesus life.

But the genuine liberal Jesus is clear and evident in those four Gospels ... and they are really all you need.

[lastliberalintexas]

41. The Gnostic Gospels as well

The Gospels of Mary and Thomas are especially illuminating.

[midnight armadillo]

46. Or if you're REALLY pressed for time

Just stick with the Beatitudes ;-)

[noshenanigans]

28. I got stuck on the those, too..

I'm trying to read the Jefferson Bible right now, to remind myself there's some good to come out of this. The Fundies have done a great job of perverting the truths of their own religion.

I went to high school in a Southern-Baptist-or-Pentecostal place, and every school function had a prayer. At football games there's a prayer over the loudspeaker, that sort of thing. I tried to complain and they just said "Well, everyone here's a Christian." Not true, and I pointed that out, but they didn't care. Not much has changed in the near-decade since I graduated.

[flygal]

40. I read "Don't know much about the Bible"

Had nightmares for a week!! And this was a glossed over look at it all. talk about violence.

[bendeminga]

13. that makes you...

a great thinker...

I think it was Gandhi that said "I would be a Christian if it
weren't for the Christians I know. sad, but true.

[Ian David]

23. Hate the Christian, Love the Christ?

I don't mean ALL christians. Just individual ones on a case-by-case basis.

[rooboy]

4. Give me a J....... n/t

[0007]

31. A good dubbie and then a silence service, aye mate?

[roguevalley]

5. Good lord. These people are INSANE!

[sportndandy]

9. When I was in sixth grade

I complained to the principal that our holiday program had only xmas songs. She looked baffled and asked "Don't you celebrate xmas too?".
I was baffled that a grown woman with that type of authority had less knowledge and sensitivity than an eleven year old boy. I have since learned that self-righteousness knows no bounds.

[Bark Bark Bark]

10. And Then's There's The Pledge

"Oh, you can omit 'under God" if you want..."

The unspoken part, of course, is: "...und your attitude vill be noted!"

Public prayers, loyalty oaths and the like are all a means of isolating and revealing non-believers, independent-thinkers, and other threats to the hive mind; the weaker will surrender in order to 'fit in,' the stronger will be 'dealt with' later. ...All for the sake of the leaders' insecurity.

[bobbieinok]

11. there're many internet articles about Marilou Braswell

check this one out

http://www.helpmarilou.com/view/?pageID=201339

....

We are asking anyone who desires to help, join us in praying that the whole truth come to light. We believe that this may be a modern day "Esther" story, and that Marilou may have been born "for such a time as this". Although we would not have chosen for this to happen, we are honored to suffer for the sake of the Gospel. To God be the glory!

more....

from a letter of support for MB posted at the site

http://www.helpmarilou.com/view/?pageID=202693

....

...If anything, Marilou and the other cheerleaders were discriminated against because Jaclyn received preferential status and treatment once she made her complaints to the Department of Legal Affairs. No other cheerleader had ever been allowed to cheer for more than three years varsity, no other cheerleader had been placed on a squad without a tryout, no other cheerleader had ever asked to miss a week’s practice during the summer, and no other other cheerleader had ever been given permission by Marilou’s supervisor to pick her own stunt partner. Coaches always determine the best position for each individual according to what’s best for the overall team. For the first time this year, football cheerleaders were required to sign an agreement that they would also cheer men’s basketball, yet at Jaclyn’s request not to, she was granted her request by Marilou’s supervisor, Frank Crumley. Like I said, sounds to me like all the other cheerleaders were being discriminated against, and Jaclyn was given everything she asked for whether it was against long standing rules or not.

more....

other internet sites (newspaper and media) have some other cheerleaders claiming feeling pressured because they were agnostic, gay, etc.....

[bobbieinok]

17. at the MB web page there is discussion about Mark Richt and

his 'being treated differently by the U of GA

check out this site

http://poptop.hypermart.net/testcmr.html

....

UGA's Mark Richt is a Head Coach with a "Higher Calling"
by Kyle Watson

The University of Georgia not only has a fine football coach. They have a man who has his priorities in the right place. Last Thursday, July 19 at First Baptist Church of Snellville men's dinner, Mark Richt shared his testimony before almost 900 men. After speaking with him and listening to his testimony,

more....

is she right?????

[bobbieinok]

19. see also

http://www.wxia.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=53281

....

"We're trying to show the athletic association at the University of Georgia that we have many instances of faculty and coaches that they have treated fairly and supported their freedom of religion and freedom of speech,” she said, ”And with me, they just threw me under the bus and I want to know why?”

The suit allegedly claims football coach Mark Richt also offered players voluntary Christian participation.

"This is not an issue of cheerleading versus football or Marilou Braswell versus Mark Richt,” Braswell said.

She added, "We are both Christians that happen to be coaches, and we run a program where if there is anything Christian involved, it’s all voluntary and I want everybody to know that. I support Mark Richt and I know he supports me."

....

[bobbieinok]

20. there's also this

http://www.11alive.com/help/search/search_article.aspx?storyid=51292

....

"My termination letter states reading this statement was discourteous and disruptive; however, that was neither my intent nor the result if the response of the cheerleading squad is any indication," she wrote.

....

The university's actions "have resulted in my being unfairly labeled as anti-Semitic and discriminatory in nature," she wrote. "I vehemently deny such an accusation and I defy the university to prove that I have ever acted in a discriminatory manner toward any group, racial, religious, ethnic or otherwise."

....

"Finally, you expressed neither regret about the misconduct nor any commitment to change. You have refused to accept responsibility for your conduct and its disruptive effects," he wrote.

....

She provided to the media copies of e-mails sent to Crumley and Evans in April in which she asked for a statement to explain the situation to cheerleaders. Evans said he did not receive the e-mail correspondence until Aug. 9, when someone was sent to pick up a copy of the e-mail.

....

(I get a bit of a feeling that they thought she was a 'nice Southern Baptist lady who would just meekly go home and be quiet'.)

[Ilsa]

37. Martyrs:

we are honored to suffer for the sake of the Gospel. To God be the glory!

And people think Islamic martyrdom is freakish!

[Voltaire99]

12. Hey, you poor sport! There's no "I" in "Jesus"!

And not much sense in your average fundie. What a shame society is being Talibanized be these medieval nuts.

[Bluzmann57]

14. On a somewhat related note

Anyone ever notice how many athletes thank God for their athletic ability? Maybe a supreme being has a little something to do with it, but lets face it folks, athletes work hard at their craft to get to where they are. Especially pro athletes. They wouldn't be there if they didn't have an edge by working and constantly practicing. Yes, there are certainly some who are more agile than others, but there is still an awful lot of work involved. I suspect the same goes for cheerleaders. They have to be athletic and work at it as well. Just once I want to hear a guy (or gal) say something like, "Its my muscles, not Jesus". Or, "I worked my ass off to reach this point" or something like that. Quit cramming religion down our throats!

[OneBlueSky]

25. even worse is when they credit JC for their win . . .

as if Jesus was following the NFL and choosing sides . . . think he's probably got more important things on his mind than whether his team wins this week . . .

[NoPasaran]

42. Actually, I think God is the ultimate sports fan

He spends all his time watching sports and intervening when he has the whim... which explains the sorry state of the world. Too bad there's no Mrs. God to kick his lazy ass off the couch and get him to feed the hungry people.

[salin]

30. When Mike Davis took over the IU bball team, and led them to

the finals, he started rhetoric about giving thanks to God...

I thought... "love ya, Mike... but geez..."

Then he went in a different direction - one that I could respect. Instead of "God Blessed me" (inherent message - because I am better than the guy who lost, who obviously God didn't bless...) he went on to say that he thanked God for the opportunity, and hoped to demonstrate that assistant coaches could rise to the level of performance to coach top teams and thereby open more opportunities for others.

Thought that was cool.

Still love Mike, but the team is losing big, and I don't think he will don the "Big Red" for much longer...

[Racenut20]

29. "in God's name, amen"

I always said it right outloud at the end of the prayer. No one ever looked at me funny. I never lost any jobs officiating sports at the "Christian" schools.

[genieroze]

34. What's wrong with these people? eom

[Deja Q]

38. Isn't separation of church and reality necessary in a democracy, or even

a world where everybody is supposed to get along?

Oh, they want everybody to believe just as they do.

That's a tall order.

[GOPBasher]

43. Yes, yes, yes.

Yes, the separation of church and state is vital in a democracy, or people won't really be free. This Jewish girl is not free to practice her own religion. This is a clear violation of her rights.

[WI_DEM]

45. Why don't they just not lead teams in prayers

if individual players want to pray that is up to them.

[Walt Starr]

47. Because that won't convert the heatens!

Get with it, citizen. If the ehathens won't convert, Gawd commands that we stone them!

/sarcasm
/poor imitation of rightwingnutfundie

[bobbieinok]

48. kick