Thread 2 on Mosul explosion

[lancdem]

Here's the first one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1088376

[Walt Starr]

1. CNN now saying 20 killed on front page

but saying 22 killed on linked story.

http://www.cnn.com/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/21/iraq.main/index.html

Brigadier General Carter Ham says the dead include U.S. military personnel, U.S. contractors, foreign contractors and members of the Iraqi army.

[babylonsister]

2. The mess hall could hold 500 ppl.

Wouldn't suprise me if the numbers of dead and injured climb.

[Walt Starr]

3. Yep, they say 13 soldiers for certain

Probably the first thirteen families have been notified already. the number may climb by the end of the day. And any of the fifty wounded who die later won't be counted.

[UpInArms]

8. wonder if they'll have their box in time for x-mas?

:sadnessthathasnoicon:

[LynnTheDem]

27. Any who die later WILL be counted.

ICC DOES count all soldiers who are wounded in Iraq, by hostile fire and by accidents, and who die later, whether in Iraq or in Germany or elsewhere.

If you look through the ICC detail pages you will often see "died in ...... (usually Landstuhl, Germany) from wounds".

[Walt Starr]

30. In the total number killed, but not in reports of the number killed

in this specific attack. We'll never know in the end how many died from wounds sustained in this attack unless somebody actually does some journalistic invstigating, which hasn't happened since this debacle began so what makes you think it'll happen with this attack?

[LynnTheDem]

37. The ICC does.

Because the DoD and Centcom do, and Pat spends hours sorting thru worldwide reports to match up who was killed when & where.

[Walt Starr]

38. Can I get a link, then?

I know I'll want to correct CNNMSRNCFAUX as this thing progresses.

[LynnTheDem]

40. sure

http://icasualties.org/oif/

Any questions, just email Michael or Pat; they can tell you what-all is done to track down each & every casualty.

It's hours & hours of work daily; I spend apx 8 hrs a day monitoring worldwide newsfeeds only for Iraq casualties. Truly "hard work", unlike bush's version of "hard work". Gawd I detest that warmongering war criminal lying bastard.

[phusion]

95. Thank you for your hard work. nm

nm

[fryguy]

6. question re: the mess hall

was this a haliburton built mess hall and base? if so, had construction and maintenance not been outsourced would the troops have been better protected?

jwol

[leftchick]

9. good questions and I don't know the answers. But just think

how much more money they will make replacing this one? :(

[MGKrebs]

14. "explosions inside a mess tent "

[aquart]

102. Were the explosives looted from unguarded ammo dumps?

You know, like the ones we heard about just before the election and then just forgot?

[maxrandb]

93. Glad You Asked

Yes it was Halliburton. Here's the real story. I just heard it briefly on the radio so, please, someone with more time, or better search capability, see if you can find it.

Anyway, guy on the radio said that Halliburton was in the process of constructing a "hard shell" mess hall that would better protect the troops, but construction was delayed due to attacks on contractors, civilians, supplies, etc. Tell me again WHY WE ARE PAYING SO MUCH MONEY TO HALLIBURTON!

It seems like old Donald Rumsfailed was right. He might as well say, "you eat in the mess hall you have, not the one you want to have." Or, "You can give all the money in the world to Halliburton, (and Gee Whiz" we're trying), but you can still get blown up."

T-H-I-S J-U-S-T M-A-K-E-S M-E S-I-C-K!

[Not_Giving_Up]

98. Heard on local radio (Houston) that KBR is confirming

employees were among the casulaties, no further details though

[fryguy]

4. CNN reporting 22 dead now

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/21/iraq.main/index.html

A blast rocked a dining hall at a U.S. military base near Mosul on Tuesday, killing 22 people, including U.S. troops, members of the Iraqi national guard, and Iraqi civilians, Pentagon officials said.

<more>

question: was this a haliburton built dining hall and base? if so, had construction and maintenance not been outsourced would the troops have been better protected?

[RamboLiberal]

16. It was nothing but a big tent - not much protection there

I still have a question from locked thread from DU vets - what's the maximum range of mortar and rockets? (As a layman I'm guessing a mile). Seems to me you should be at least able to secure the perimeter of your base - especially during daylight.

But as another poster said - Hagel has said they haven't even secured the Baghdad airport road - which is what 10 miles? - I don't think we're winning Idiot in Chief Bush and your bunch of moron voters.

[TheWraith]

43. Mortar and RPG ranges

Not a vet, but I'm reasonably well versed in military weaponry and strategy. The direct fire range of an RPG, the way you'd use it against a tank or vehicle, is about 200-250 meters. However, if you're not pointing it directly at the target, they can fly up to 920 meters before self destructing. This entails a loss of accuracy, but the added range can compensate if they know how to use it.

Mortar range varies wildly depending on the hardware, anywhere from 800 meters (about 2500 feet) to 12,000 meters (about 8 miles). Assuming that the Iraqis are using Russian hardware, which is the case everywhere else, their workable range is probably somewhere around 800M to 9700M.

[flamingyouth]

5. I know a guy who's in Mosul right now

Every time I see one of these stories, my heart sinks. He's with the Stryker Brigade at Fort Lewis.

[benburch]

12. I'll think positive thoughts for you friend.

I'm glad the one person I knew there has gone home. Cannot fight with a blown ACL, and the "good" news is that the physical therapy might take a year.

[flamingyouth]

13. Thanks, friend, I appreciate it

Of course, he may emerge without a scratch, yet countless other families and friends will be receiving life-shattering news today. My heart goes out to all of them. :cry:

(I'm glad your friend is back home, and best of luck with his recovery :hi:)

[leftynyc]

55. The brother of a friend in my office is in Mosul

She's 8 months pregnant and hasn't heard about this yet. We're trying to find out more and keep her away from the internet for the afternoon.

[Krupskaya]

86. Why? nt

[Walt Starr]

87. I can't speak for the person who you have asked, but...

If I were in a similar situation, I'd try to find out her brother is okay before she finds out about this mess. If he's okay, then she needn't worry about him. If he's not okay, as a friend, I would want to offer any help I could.

The key is, every family member who knows about the mess is agonizing right now, and most of them don't need to.

[leftynyc]

89. Thank you for answering for what I thought would be

a fairly obvious situation.

[leftynyc]

88. Until she hears from him or from someone in the govt

we would rather her not hear about her brother "possibly" being blow up today. She's already lost two babies to miscarriages.

[antonialee839]

60. My son is with the 73rd

based out of Fort Lewis. Is your friend a sapper?

[antonialee839]

63. He's home on

leave right now, and very upset about what happened. I'm just thankful he wasn't there and I wish our troops weren't there period.

[sidpleasant]

74. the mess hall at Camp Anaconda was hit earlier this year

Anaconda is the huge base at Balad (approximately 20,000 soldiers) north of Baghdad. My brother - in - law is there and told me 8 months ago that the insurgents had hit the mess hall with mortars. Fortunately it was between meals so the place was empty. They did drop a mortar into the PX that killed 2 GIs. I suppose the insurgents are intentionally targeting buildings that might have concentrations of soldiers.

As someone noted last week in a thread about the increased use of aircraft to ferry supplies around Iraq due to the dangers of the roads, Iraq is starting to resemble Viet Nam with isolated bases completely surrounded by hostile forces.

[DFWJock]

7. Nothing to see here people

stay the course, stay the course.

[maddezmom]

10. kick, just locked the other

[benburch]

11. I've been busy and missed the news.

My reaction? I am literally sick to my stomach now.

Iraq is an unmitigated disaster, and I think we have only just begun to see the consequences.

[Rose Siding]

15. ABC's AP rpt: "I can't hear! I can't hear!" one female soldier cried...

snip>
Jeremy Redmon, a reporter for the Richmond, Va., Times-Dispatch embedded with the troops in Mosul, said 13 soldiers were killed in the attack at Forward Operating Base Marez, including two from the Richmond-based 276th Engineer Battalion. More than 50 people were wounded, and civilians may have been among them, he said.
...
Amid the screaming and thick smoke in the tent, soldiers turned their tables upside down, placed the wounded on them and gently carried them into the parking lot, Redmon said.

Scores of troops crammed into concrete bomb shelters, while others wandered around in a daze and collapsed, he said.

"I can't hear! I can't hear!" one female soldier cried as a friend hugged her.

The shelling blew a huge hole in the roof of the tent, and puddles of blood, lunch trays and overturned tables and chairs covered the floor, Redmond reported.

Near the front entrance, troops tended a soldier with a serious head wound, but within minutes, they zipped him into a black body bag, he said. Three more bodies were in the parking lot.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=349016

[patcox2]

17. Whats W going to do? He'll want to "punish" Mosul, but its too big.

This is frightening. The press doesn't really cover the fact that Bush really does interfere with the running of the war over there when it comes to things like this. Bush personally wanted Fallujah "punished" for the incident back in spring, and now Fallujah has basically been razed to the ground and had salt spread in the fields. Bush ordered the initial attack, which had to be called off because of outrage in the middle east, and then pushed for this fall's vicious attack. I have seen reports that army generals don't really agree with this stuff, but the hyper-aggressive marines are always ready to show that they can "kick ass."

But Mosul is way way bigger than Fallujah.

Bush is going to be hurt by this, and he is going to react as we know his character will require him to react, belligerence, aggression, swagger. But he'd be going against a much bigger city and angering even more people, stirring the shit more than ever. this is going to blow up on him, both because it happened and because his response is guaranteed to be a clusterfuck.

[Walt Starr]

18. Seems to me, they hit a military target

and in a time of war, aren't military targets legitimate?

[Warren Stupidity]

22. occupations are wierd, legally.

It is not clear that insurgents have any military rights. On the other hand when we do things like level Fallujah we are committing a war crime, at least as far as the GC on occupation forces goes.

That is part of the reason we pushed real hard to get rid of the previous puppet regime last year and replace it with the latest iraqi puppet regime. We were trying to create a legal fiction of iraqi sovereignty so that our actions subsequent to the establishement of the iraqi government could be claimed to be not under the rules governing occupation forces, but instead would be actions performed at the request of the 'iraqi government'. This is the same legal charade we used in vietnam for 15 years or so.

[atreides1]

34. Yes, Occupations are Weird

You said, "It is not clear that insurgents have any military rights.",
well with that in mind, then every resistance movement that fought against the Germans in WWII, "legally" didn't have any military rights either.

Also, the Germans created the Vichy Government, which was a puppet regime, and anything that was done by the Germans, could be based on the request of the 'French Government'.

This same thought could be applied to every government that the Germans set up to run occupied Europe, all of those governments were
"puppet governments", and anything that the German military did was at the request of the "government".

In reality this type of legal charade has been in existence for longer then either WWII or Vietnam.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. I misspelled weird, oops...

You said, "It is not clear that insurgents have any military rights.",
well with that in mind, then every resistance movement that fought against the Germans in WWII, "legally" didn't have any military rights either.


Right. Odd isn't it? I think the current GC on Occupation Forces is post WW-II, and was developed specifically to codify as illegal the sort of things done by the Germans in their occupied territories. The stuff we hung a bunch of them for after WWII. For example collective punishment is categorically forbidden.

My understanding is that while insurgents don't have military rights (for example they are not POWs when captured,) all people (including insurgents) within an occupied territory have rights under the GC that in most respects are vastly superior to those afforded POWs and soldiers. The crap we pulled in al-grahib for example is strictly forbidden. No doubt we are torturing detainees right now, or at least our iraqi surrogates are torturing detainees for us right now.

[The Stranger]

94. This does not seem supportable:

My understanding is that . . . insurgents don't have military rights (for example they are not POWs when captured,)

Isn't this the sort of thing the Nazis in the Bush Administration have been peddling? If they are fighting in what the occupier insists is a war, and they are captured (made prisoner), then by definition they are prisoners of war. If they aren't fighting in the war, then who is?

[Lorien]

69. Americans are the descendants of "insurgents"

the Revolutionary war was an "insurgency", correct? One of my great grandfathers fought in that war, thus, I'm decended from Insurgents.

[TheWraith]

When it comes to occupations, legality rarely matters.

At the very least, the resisters don't really care about whether their actions are considered legal. 'Rules' end up being decided by what both sides are unwilling to do and/or provoke. For instance, the occupiers might avoid killing civilians, because it could lead to the execution of any of their troops who was captured.

Obviously, in this case no one is wearing a white hat.

But, in other situations, occupations lead to a complex kind of military/civilian politics legality is just as relative as anything else.

[Jesus H. Christ]

35. More legitimate than anything in Fallujah.

Seems like chickens coming home to roost.

[patcox2]

83. Your comment has nothing to do with my post, its about incompetence.

Never said a word about legality or legitimacy of anything. I was talking about the fact that our cowboy president interferes with tactical decisions because he is an immature, belligerent, insecure fuckwad with a chip on his shoulder who wants to win mommies affections by showing he's tougher than daddy.

And I pointed out, perhaps not clearly enough, that thats not the best way to run a war, that strategic and tacical decisions should be based on cost benefit and efficiency calculations about how best to achieve the planned goal.

But of course we don't have a clearly defined goal, and our whooping hollerin moron will continue to push ad hoc reactive decisions on the military based more on his desire to be seen as a manly war president in the domestic press rather than any real calculation as to whether it will help achieve the 'goal", whatever that might be, in Iraq.

[Serial Mom]

26. What will Dubya do?? GO ON VACATION

SSDD - he's NOT DOING ANY JOB IN the office of the residency!

He campaigns, makes stupid comments (do you have blacks in Brazil, the OB/GYNs practice their love on the women, etc., etc.) and thinks vacation is all he has to do in-between.

He's leaving for Crawford today (as least that is what I think I heard), yet doesn't care about or contact any of the military families going thru this AWFUL day, months, years with what he decided to do, yet he doesn't even try to nominate any secretary for Homeland Security, nor does he try to think about a Director of National Intelligence!

HE IS A LOSER!

My heart aches for the families of ALL the troops!

[marylanddem]

33. Such a waste of precious young lives

I was a teenager during the Vietnam war, so the boys being slaughtered were my peers and didn't seem so young in my immature mind. Now, in my 50's, with a son who's 21 and knock on wood a long life ahead of him, I see how very young those poor boys were, and it is especially sickening to see our children cut down at age 19, 20, 21 for this hideous ongoing evil atrocity in Iraq. I hope the parents of these children, and the rest of us, organize for the biggest protests possible as soon as possible.

[Earth_First]

41. "C'mon, these are stressful times, as President you know

...I just needs me a little vacation, that's all"

[fryguy]

59. bush will claim he's right

violence IS increasing in the run-up to the sElection....

[daleo]

66. I think you are right

Bush will want revenge, and it won't matter where or how he gets it.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Facts reported don't add up.

Pentagon claims "rocket attack", but the AP article also contains this:


The Ansar al-Sunnah Army claimed responsibility for the attack in a statement on the Internet. It said the attack was a "martyrdom operation" targeting a mess hall in the al-Ghizlani camp.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=2100&e=&u=/ap/20041221/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Unless insurgents are strapping themselves to rockets these days somebody is not telling the truth. Could be a false claim by Ansar al_Sunnah, could be the Pentagon doesn't want to admit that their base is compromised.

My guess is that the casualty count is being suppressed as well.

[phusion]

21. Wouldn't surprise me...

It wouldn't surprise me if the overall casualty count was lower. Besides, this is a Pentagon that has admitted lying to the press before the Fallujah invasion. So, wouldn't it make sense to underreport American casualties as if to make the insurgency appear "less effective"?

Just a thought...

[leftchick]

25. "security breach"?

that would be my best guess. There were Iraqi NG stationed there as well.

[marylanddem]

20. Bush's bloody hands

Notice how he referred to "youngsters in harms way" in Iraq at his shameful press conference yesterday. "In harm's way?" What a f-cking lame euphemism for "youngsters being slaughtered and maimed for life" I think he is so evil that he is incapable of speaking honestly. He is so evil that to see or hear him is to be sickened.

[plasticsundance]

28. A military spokesperson

on Reuters stated:

"May God bless America. May God preserve peace in Iraq." :crazy:

http://tv.reuters.com/ifr_main.jsp?st=1103650194531&rf=bm&mp=WMP&wmp=1&rm=1&cpf=true&fr=111604_023409_17d5d2ax10040229314x7b16&rdm=211314.90502334342

Well ... we do live in a day and age where war is peace and up is down.

Tell me I woke up on the wrong planet.

[Malva Zebrina]

31. He also blamed the Iraqi's because they "run away" when expected to

fight. Ohhh them bad cowardly Iraqi's not wanting to kill their own countrymen.

It is all his fault--all of it.
All of the slaughter and all of the torture, and all of the chaos and destruction is HIS fault and on one else. He loves wearing the little dictator costume in front of the cheering Marines, with "George Bush, Commander in Chief" embroidered on it--and then shrinks from any responsibility when push comes to shove, coward that he is.

As long as the bloviating image prevails, the policies that cause death are on the back burner for this sadistic sociopath.

[Rose Siding]

23. This Richmond reporter was there-

snip>
Soldiers scrambled back into the hall to check for more wounded. The explosions blew out a huge hole in the roof of the tent. Puddles of bright red blood, lunch trays and overturned tables and chairs covered the floor.

Grim-faced soldiers growled angrily about the attack as they stomped away.
"Mother (expletive)!" one mumbled.

Sgt. Evan Byler, of the 276th, steadied himself on one of the concrete bomb shelters. He was eating chicken tenders and macaroni when the bomb hit. The blast knocked him out of his chair. When the smoke cleared, Byler took off his shirt and wrapped it around a seriously wounded soldier.

Byler held the bloody shirt in his hand, not quite sure what to do with it.
...
Byler started walking back to his base when he spotted a soldier collapse from shock on the side of the road. Byler and Lt. Shawn Otto, also of the 276th, put the grieving soldier on a passing pickup truck.
...
Maj. James Zollar, the unit's acting commander, spoke to more than a dozen of his officers in a voice thick with emotion. He urged them to keep their troops focused on their missions....
Zollar eventually turned the emergency meeting over to Chaplain Eddie Barnett. He led the group in prayer.

"Help us now, God, in this time of this very tragic circumstance," Barnett said. "We pray for your healing upon our wounded soldiers."
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-iraq-attack-scene,0,3660132.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[lebkuchen]

29. Prayer won't help

The US must leave Iraq.

I only hope this attack isn't a decoy, diverting attention to another attack on US shores. We would be so screwed if that were to happen.

[The Stranger]

32. How would Iraqis get to "another attack US shores"?

First, the Iraqis never attacked US shores in the first place, so it would be the first, not "another." Second, US shores are thousands upon thousands of miles away from them, and they don't have any gasoline, much less any kind of jets or aircraft, or even boats.

[Warren Stupidity]

46. they are practicing long distance swimming

You have to wonder what the original poster meant.

I suppose it was a 9/11 reference. But as most of us know, that had nothing to do with Iraq. Then there is the diversion part. Exactly how would blowing up a military base in Iraq divert security measures in the US? I give up on that one. Are we sending baggage checkers over to the base to help out?

But the OP raises an interesting (to me anyhow, YMMV) question: how does another 9/11 play out politically?

[leftchick]

42. just heard the pentagon spokesman...."One Large Explosion"

The way it sounded to me it seems there was an explosion inside the tent! I wonder if there was a security breach from the Iraqi Army. This so beyond a hopeless situation. The troops need to come home Now!

[Warren Stupidity]

51. mortar attacks come in threes

Long/Short/OnTarget

Rocket attacks come in barrages as they are not very accurate.

Bombs are singular events.

The base was infiltrated and is compromised. Iraqification has just failed. Oddly Creep In Charge more or less admitted as much yesterday. What a coincidence.

[Massachusetts]

48. You are correct, prayer will not help!

:thumbsup:

[JohnyCanuck]

45. Hi Major, if God gives two shits about you and your troops,

why did he let the "evildoers" cream your asses in the first place?

[Ms_Mary]

24. Every day, I hear the news and wonder where my friends in Iraq are. nt

[phusion]

84. Me too...

I know what you're going through. My friend through high school was shipped to Iraq in July. Not sure where he is at...

My high school has already lost 2 or 3 graduates in Iraq.

What a rotten deal.

[LynnTheDem]

36. info on the base

Fire Base Glory is near the Mosul Airfield, and was home to the 101st Airborne Division rear command post and various other units during OIF I. A quick response by Iraqi firefighters on Fire Base Glory helped ensure the safety of soldiers as well as save government equipment after an Army front-end loader struck an unseen land mine on post. Spc. Curtis Lee Cashion, 877th Engineer Battalion, from Hamilton, Ala., was driving the loader at the time of the explosion. The ball of fire engulfed the front scoop and hydraulic system, and Cashion immediately jumped out of the vehicle and moved to safety. 1st.Lt. Jason Sayre, mayor staff officer-in-charge of Fire Base Glory, saw the explosion through his office window and immediately called the fire team into action. Within three minutes, the three-man Iraqi team had sprung into action and extinguished the fire. The men, David Salim Mahmoud, Ausama Amed Ali and Mahmoud Younis Mahiob, were recommended for the Commanding General’s “Hero Program,” and were commended by 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) Commander Maj.Gen. David H. Petraeus in a ceremony on 23 October 2003.

The provenance of the nomenclature "Fire Base Glory" is unclear, since no associated units use this nickname, and there does not appear to have been a "Fire Base Glory" in any previous deployment. The fact of the existence of this location is poorly attested, by a single Army news story. The possiblity cannot be excluded that this report reflected a misunderstanding of "Firebase Gloria" -- which was the subject of the 1989 movie The Siege of Firebase Gloria starring R. Lee Ermey, Wings Hauser, and Albert Popwell. Based on the true story, this film follows the struggle of a group of Marines as they attempt to defend Firebase Gloria during the Tet Offensive, even though they are greatly outnumbered.

In early 2004 FOB Glory / Fire Base Glory was renamed Camp Marez. Camp Maerz is equipped with numerous amenities, including access to satellite television and Internet cafes. The facility's dining hall is the size of an airport hangar.

The facility's physical-fitness facility is offers access to not only dozens of weight-training equipment, but also an aerobics room and a basketball court. As of mid-April 2004, a movie theater was scheduled to open in the following weeks.

To provide troops with protection from incoming mortar rounds, each of the base's building has, located outside of them, 7-foot tunnels made up of reinforced concrete, dubbed "C bunkers".

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/mosul-airbase.htm

The "protection" didn't work so well.

[leftchick]

44. I don't think it was "incoming"...

at least that is not the way the Military briefer on CNN made it sound. He was cryptic as usual but said it was one Large Explosion inside the tent!

[LynnTheDem]

49. Couple troops on base say it was incoming

Several rockets.

More blood on bush's bloody dirty corrupt oily hands.

[leftchick]

56. good to hear the truth...

I believe what the troops say before the military spokesliar everytime!

[benburch]

47. The insurgents must have had a forward observer.

Rockets are just not this accurate unless somebody feeds back information to adjust the barrage.

[Walt Starr]

53. Mayhaps that was the "suicide mission"

Perhaps an insurgent infiltrated the Iraqi forces and had a device that the rockets home in on.

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

61. actually i had the same thought....

but i have no idea what they would use or if there are rockets with that sort of capability available to them. This would explain the accuracy of the attack and the lack of a sustained barrage of any sort. I was under the impression that most military rockets are pretty darn stupid devices and that the ones that can actually home in on a target are the sophisticated sort of weapon that the insurgency is unlikely to have access to. I could be wrong, but I think the standard military rocket is meant to be fired in a barrage at troop concentrations, and accuracy is far less important than range/cheapness/payload.

Well that raises another question almost immediately: if they did have access to such weapons and they were not part of the left over stockpile from the baath regime, where did they get them from?

[Walt Starr]

64. A simple radio device could be enough

Have the suicide mission wear a radio device that is transmitting and have three receiving stations triangulate. Aim your rocket based upon the results.

This is a simple, effective, and low-tech solution.

[Warren Stupidity]

68. except...

as I said I don't think the standard military rocket is accurate enough. But I admit I'm over my head on this one. Perhaps somebody with anything other than military simulation game playing experience could comment :-)

[Walt Starr]

71. Well, when it comes to explosive devices

close is usually enough, and with a target as big as that mess hall, close is about all they needed. Stick the guy on a suicide mission in the center transimitting his signal, triangulate and aim on him, and all you have to do is get within a couple dozen yards.

[leftchick]

58. this is what happens when you occupy a country...

and force people to do what they don't want to do. Sigh... the US will never learn from its history, Never!

[fryguy]

50. how many marines died in the barracks bombing in Lebanon?

anyone in the current administration seeing the similarities yet?

[leftchick]

75. it will take a massive amount of deaths...

before it becomes an issue with them if ever!

[htuttle]

76. Uh, oh. I guess that means it's time to invade Grenada again

[Wilber_Stool]

78. I believe that was about 265 dead.....n/t

[Journeyman]

79. 243, IIRC. . .

n/t

[nashville_brook]

80. 240? i certainly see the similarity! n/t

[PunkPop]

52. George Bush strikes again

Scores of devastated parents and relatives

A few dozen new widows and widowers

More children without a parent

All in day's work for our lying POS Commander-in-Chief

[KingChicken]

54. "Civillians amoung dead", why are there civillians on a U.S. marine base?

Maybe they were caught in hostilities afterward, otherwise I don't know why centcom would claim that.

-> I read the story again and now it says "Civilian Contractors", sorry my ignorance, I was thinking real civilians, like Iraqis.

[Walt Starr]

57. Of course "civilians" died in the attack

What else is centcom going to call the mercenaries?

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

65. actually they are 'privateers'.

Having had this debate last year....

Stricly speaking, mercenaries are in the employ of a foreign government. Privateers are civilian hired guns working for their own government.

[Walt Starr]

70. Ahhhh, so the privateers are the ones we hire from the U.S.

and the Columbians are mercenaries.

Gotcha.

But aren't the "private contractors" being paid by the "Iraq government" now, and if so, wouldn't that make them "mercenaries"?

[Warren Stupidity]

72. who's signing the checks?

I think we need to straighten this out right now :-)

Maybe 'outsourced military personel' would be a better way to rephrase the duplicitous 'civilian casualties' used by the MSM?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

62. Lots of civilians...

in the mess halls these days.

We have outsourced the meal prep and service through -- wait for it! -- Halliburton.

There were articles all over the place awhile back about problems with the civilian food prep -- food prepped in unsanitary conditions, food that was rotting, etc. After an Army whistleblower broke the story (and was reassigned for it) the Pentagon threatened to pull the contract.

At that time, much was made of the makeup of the civilians subcontracted to do the work -- if I remember, lots of Philipinos paid shit wages to work 24/7 to keep the troops fed.

[leftchick]

77. aka: mercenaries...

The US was just recruiting some more in Columbia!

[Corgigal]

67. Rummy sure will have to sign his name

to a lot of families today. Now that he's been caught using the autopen, he actually has to take time to sign. So close to the holidays too. I'm sure he had more important things to do with his time.

[daleo]

73. Just when that autopen would have come in handy, too

I sure hope he doesn't get writer's cramp - that would be tragic.

[leftchick]

81. Up to 24 Dead Now....

I imagine the wounds are horrific as well with all of that shrapnel
flying. :(


<snip>


The dead included U.S. military personnel, U.S. contractors, foreign national contractors and Iraqi army, said Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, commander of Task Force Olympia in Mosul.


<snip>
Lt. Col. Paul Hastings, a spokesman for Task Force Olympia, told CNN that the toll was 24 dead. He added that more than 60 were wounded.


Jeremy Redmon, a reporter for the Richmond, Va., Times-Dispatch embedded with the troops in Mosul said the dead included two soldiers from the Richmond-based 276th Engineer Battalion, which had just sat down to eat at Forward Operating Base Merez. He reported 64 were wounded, and civilians may have been among them, he said.


Officials could not break down the toll of dead or wounded among the groups. Reports also differed as to the cause of the blast at the camp, which is based outside the predominantly Sunni Muslim city about 220 miles north of Baghdad.


<snip>

"We do not know if it was a mortar or a place explosive," he said, describing it as a "single explosion."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20041221/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_041221180848

[skooooo]

82. Well, Bush says insurgents are having "an effect"..

..maybe this is what he means.

[VolcanoJen]

85. Live Statement from Fort Lewis, coming up on CNN and MSNBC

Scheduled for the top of the hour (2:00 et)

[Walt Starr]

90. Feed the cube rats

PLEASE!

[VolcanoJen]

92. The spokesman had absolutely NO information.

He was a Lt Col, I believe. Said he had no information on what caused the attacks, what kind of weaponry was used, or how many soldiers from Ft. Lewis were among the dead and wounded.

He did enlighten the press corps to the fact that currently, 6,000+ soldiers from Ft. Lewis were stationed in Iraq.

Other than that, the press conference was worthless. :-(

[Barrett808]

91. Please keep the cube rats fed! n/t

[leftchick]

96. Halliburton Workers Among Dead

Houston-based Halliburton issued a statement saying it was ``deeply saddened'' by the deaths of four employees of subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root and three subcontractors.

``There is no road map for coping with events like this and we are doing everything we can to support our KBR personnel in Mosul,'' the e-mailed statement said. The deaths today raised the toll of Halliburton workers and subcontractors killed in Iraq and Kuwait to 62.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a8l8alveT5Pk&refer=us

only 62? Why do I think that is a lie as well?

[Not_Giving_Up]

99. That's gotta be BS

Every week in the Houston Chronicle, KBR is running an ad for overseas workers...After the first beheading, KBR employees were coming home, deciding that their life was not worth any amount of money, but more people just line up to take their places.

[Walt Starr]

100. Let's see.....four employees, three subcontractors

that leaves seventeen left to account for, so that would mean thirteen Soldiers and four Iraqis if the thirteen soldiers number was accurate.

Sad.

[VolcanoJen]

97. Reporter in Mosul says Concrete Mess Hall is "under construction."

He's on CNN reporting now, he's an embedded reporter in Mosul. He's upset because he says the concrete mess hall has been under construction for months and months. :-(

[aquart]

101. Who has the contract?

[Renew Deal]

103. This is just sickening.

Bush and the rest of the criminals should pay for their crimes.

[maddezmom]

104. locking, started a 3rd thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=102