Fidel Castro Walks in Public (first) Since Fall

[bin.dare]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4690498,00.html

HAVANA (AP) - A smiling Fidel Castro walked in public Thursday for the first time since the 78-year-old Cuban leader fell two months ago, and lawmakers attending a year-end National Assembly meeting gave him a standing ovation.

Castro entered the room on the arm of a uniformed school girl, then walked in front of the gathered lawmakers and up some steps before taking his seat on stage at Havana's Convention Palace.

...

Castro, 78, made headlines around the globe when he stumbled and fell Oct. 20 in the central city of Santa Clara, shattering his left kneecap and breaking his right arm.

...

[MissBrooks]

1. May he fall again soon.

[Bono71]

2. I second that emotion. n/t

[Kathy in Cambridge]

99. So obvious

:eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brundle_Fly]

12. I think the concept/sentiment is

if he is in a hospital, he isn't killing or torturing fellow country members.

[Bono71]

13. Haven't you heard? He is thinking about

stepping down...he wants to implement the 13-term rule, ala the US's 2-term rule.

[Maple]

3. He's doing very well

A very healthy man.

[VegasWolf]

4. May he continue to snub his nose in awol's direction. n/t

[murray hill farm]

6. In Cuba...

They love him, you know!! I really do understand the pain of the Cubans who lost everything..their family homes, jewelry, land, money when they fled Cuba and immigrated to the usa or canada. But, ya know...get over it...you all have moved to the usa to start a new life..mostly it was your parents or grandparents...and this hatred for Castro continues to poison generation after generation..as u wait to go back and reclaim. Not going to happen!! Cubans in Cuba..the poor that your families shunned...are now the new and proud cubans...and they love their leader.

[Bono71]

7. Ummm, my family was not wealthy when we came here. Also,

until very recently, homosexuals were persecuted by this man. So why don't you get over it.

[murray hill farm]

20. not getting over it...is not getting a life.

generation after generation of hanging onto the anger..is not getting a life...waiting for the biological solution..so that things will go back to the way they were, is not getting a life...dedicating ones life and ones childrens lives and their childrens lives..that is giving up life because one does not want to accept what has happened...that is no life. I would not like it either, if my country through revolution became communist...and my property and belongings became the property of the people..and if i had to give it up...and if i chose to flee my country in response. Add to this that the govt in the usa encourages those who fled cuba and came to the usa to continue the generation after generation of hate and self destruction of the souls of those who continue to live in bitterness. Those days are over..u cannot go back to them..and hanging on to that bitterness and that hope that one day you can..is self destructive. So, yes...for your own sakes...and your childrens..please get over it. And one does not need a "guide" in Cuba..govt sponsered or otherwise..you can rent a car and go wherever u want and talk to whoever you want to talk to...and yes...the people do love their leader.

[Bono71]

30. Again, you are glossing over brutality...

it is your choice and I can't change your mind, though your point of view puzzles me. It is strange to have someone who did not suffer from this regime, tell me to get over it. Have you not seen the thousands of Cubans killing themselves to leave the island? Do you ever wonder why that is? Would you cal this loving your leader? If we love Castro, why no free elections? Answer me that one, brother.

As for my children, I can say that they are fine, and I hope one day they can return without fear. They understand what the regime is like and they understand what the United States policy is like (they disagree with the embargo, as do I). They also understand that if they write a book protesting Bush, they will not be thrown in prison.

It is, what it is.

[MileHiStealth]

51. Hold that thought for a few years ....

"They also understand that if they write a book protesting Bush, they will not be thrown in prison."

[Mika]

58. Exile mindset from generation to generation demonstrated

"As for my children, I can say that they are fine, and I hope one day they can return without fear."<-- posted by Bono71

Return? To Cuba? Your children are born Americans aren't they? They wouldn't be 'returning to Cuba', they would be visiting (or moving to) Cuba.

Your statement represents clearly the poisonous generational exile mindset that the hard core Castro haters who can't get over it have, and have transferred their hatred & kept their offspring in the 1950's and 60's cold war exile mindset.


Time to move on. Isn't it?


Cuba NOW is nothing like Cuba then.

[manly]

71. castro

I seem to recall that Castro's revolution overthrew the corrupt regime of Fulgencio Batista, a gangster fascist affiliated with right-wing fanatics and the mob, which ran Havana's notorious casinos and whorehouses. He was a petty dictator who oppressed the people of Cuba, keeping them illiterate, but received the full support of (guess who)...the United States. Show us a right-wing dictator and we'll support the bastard.
Castro appears to have achieved wonders without any help from the US.
I'm sorry to admit this but I can't help but question the motives of those Cubans who long for the good old days, before they had to flee the forces of the revolution.
Many of those who ran were affiliated with the dictator Batista. Surely they don't want to bring back those days of corruption, do they? On the other hand, they don't want to participate in Casto's Cuba. So what is it they really want?

[Tinoire]

77. Good post Manly. It's rather odd isn't it

that the US didn't give a rat's ass about democracy in Cuba until Castro came along with dangerous, anti-democratic notions like health care & free education for all.

Youhave to wonder how bad a guy is when he's the only head of government to receive the "Health for All" medal from the World Health Organization.
http://ftp.who.int/gb/pdf_files/WHA51/cad7.pdf

Just the contrast between Cuban children and children of some of the more "democratic" regimes who live in shantytowns, get roped into drug-running or prostitution is stark and very telling. The adults have the highest life expectancy in all of Latin America, as high as the life expectancy in the US.

Or the fact that little Cuba sent an estimated 20,000 doctors around the world to provide medical aid to more than 60 Third World countries.

Their literacy rate is amazing in stark contrast to the literacy rate of people who lived under US-backed regimes like say, for example, in Haiti.

"Cuba will be the first country of America that, after a few months, will be able to say it does not have one illiterate person." Nearly 270,000 teachers and students were sent across the country to teach those who wanted to learn how to read and write. By 1961, Cuba's illiteracy rate had been reduced from 20 percent to 4 percent. People who completed the course were asked to send a letter to Fidel Castro as a test. Cuba's National Literacy Museum archives more than 700,000 such letters. (http://www.bangornews.com/editorialnews/specialreports/cuba/improvement.html)

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[manly]

84. castro

Thanks, tinoire.
I think Castro deserves to be admired, too. He has accomplished a great deal. Just contrast what has occurred in Cuba with what has happened in Haiti, with U.S. backing. The difference is grotesque.And the U.S. has supported Papa Doc, and
Baby Doc, and Aristede, tin-pot dictators all.

[lumpy]

116. Bodies floating in the harbor.

My sisters lasting impression of Cuba in the 40s dumped there by Baptista's thugs.

[Mika]

121. Its called transference

The floating corpses and dumped bodies in Cuba were the doings of Batista's death squads. The Cubans who left Cuba in the late 50's early 60's at early ages were told by their Batista lovin' parents that the bodies were Castro's doing.

[manly]

72. castro

sent second copy in error.

[MissBrooks]

14. I was in Cuba

The Cuban people don't "LOVE HIM" there!
They feel (and are) oppressed by him. The quality of life there is horrible.

Sure, the government pays for the basics.. .but Shampoo and toilet paper are considered LUXURY ITEMS!

It's a MESS!!!

[Bono71]

15. Where did you visit?

[MissBrooks]

16. Veradaro and Havana mainly

Traveled from Veradaro to Havana - stopped in towns like Matanzas along the way.

We hired a personal tour guide and spent quite a bit of time with the people - without a "state sponsored tour guide".

It was an incredible experience.

PS... we travelled through Mexico - but did have permission through the US Government as a research group.

[Bono71]

17. How did you like the people, food, etc.? n/t

[MissBrooks]

25. The people and food...

The people were amazing! All of them spoke English (that we met) and wanted to practice speaking English all the time. So, we practiced our Spanish and they practiced their English.

They generally had a "dark" sense of humor about life in Cuba. Very much like Russians. The country has suffered tremendously since the USSR disolved.

The food.... WOW! We had grilled lobster nearly every night while at the resorts. It was about $15 USD for salad, rice/beans, and lobster.
Nearly every restaurant had music. Lots of pork, seafood and plenty of rice and beans.

It was a blast! I would go back anytime!

[Bono71]

28. I am glad you enjoyed it. I am glad you went. n/t

[Tinoire]

31. Pray tell us more about this "research group" The US government

allowed to go to Cuba.

Please. I'm all ears.

Wait, was this research group over there to string up these Christmas lights?



??????????????????????

Castro wins hands down.

[Bono71]

32. Man. You guys really are hostile to points of view other than your

own. I can't speak for her group, but I know my alma mater sends folks to Cuba...they study art, language, literature and culture...

I donate to the program, though myself, I would not go back. I am too afraid (though my brother says he is going back soon).

ON EDIT: I am really proud to be Cuban. I think we have something, a spirit and a love of life that is special. I am glad to hear she had a good time...it is bitter sweet to hear such things...I am proud of the country.

[Mika]

59. That's one of the ways I went to Cuba also - FIU

Marine biology.

I've also gone with Pastors for Peace, and Smile Train.

I love the Cuban people in Cuba. As activist a populace as there is to be found. Anti imperialist to the core, almost to all. They are very proud of their accomplishments in constructing a fair socialist system. Their health care and education stats bear that out.

[Judi Lynn]

93. Mika, great information on the organizations you've encountered.

I would think it's WONDERFUL knowing people in the group which annually takes its best shot and travels with medical equipment, medical supplies, computers, school buses, etc., etc. to Cuba.

They were stopped starting to go into Canada for that trip to Cuba the first year of _{Bush playing President.} Unbelievable amounts of desperately needed medical equipment and computers were taken from them and withheld from the Cubans who needed them.

Lucius Walker is tremendous. It's no shock that Fidel Castro spoke at his Riverside Church. People stood on the street trying to hear.

Your posts on this thread are so worth noting, as usual. Thanks for supplying so much missing information. Well worth the "hassle" reading it in order to avoid being as backward as the citizens who would substitute rumored lies as the truth.

[Mika]

95. Thanks, Judi Lynn

Thank you for all of the info you post too.

(Better save that awesome bank of links you have to to an external disk before your computer takes a dive!!!)

I just love the links you posted (below, in this thread) on Castro addressing the crowd that night right AFTER he busted up his knee and arm. What a guy. Its just too funny imagining what would have happened if herr bush had slipped and fallen, breaking bones.

[Judi Lynn]

101. Oh, gawd. One can only pray it doesn't happen.

We'd NEVER hear the end of it. Probably have to cut some more funding.

Thanks for the suggestion about an external disk. I've never done that, and I'd throw a real fit if I had to start over again.

I've got computer manuals. I'd better get to work and figure out how to do it fast.

[Judi Lynn]

102. This is my first personal computer. I know nada about what happens

when they crash. Can I just take the computer to someone who can extract the info. if I do it before it blows up? What a mess. It has taken me years to collect this stuff....

If you have any specific ideas, p.m. if you've got some time. (I'll read it if I'm still in bidness!)

"I hear there's rumors on the internets."

[MissBrooks]

34. Nice attitude...

It was a group with the local state university.
We went to study the effects of capitalism on communism....

If you don't believe it - send me a personal note and I'll forward the name of my professor.

He does a trip like that every year.

PS... if you want to ask me a question, hold the attitude.

[Tinoire]

48. You went on a trip to "study the effects of capitalism on communism"

Gotcha ;)

A trip to Cuba to "study the effects of capitalism on communism". Truly, I am laughing uncontrollably. Even had to share this with a co-worker who knows nothing about DU but finds that as hysterical as all hell.

Please. Please tell me the name of this school & more about this course. I have some research I'd like to conduct becasue this sounds like the type of courses certain groups have been pushing to combat liberalism on US campuses.

[MissBrooks]

73. Here is the info you requested - in such a snotty little manner...

We studied the ways that people use capitalism to live through communism.

I'll tell you what we saw and what I wrote my paper on.

In Cuba, many of the people start side businesses to make ends meet. So, the government pays for their "basics" (like rice, beans, coffee) but to buy shampoo, q-tips, toilet paper, diapers, etc. you need to come up with alternate $$$.

When we were there, the government paid people in Cuban Pesos. The stores to buy luxuries took US$ only.

We studied the ways people made $$ - outside of their governemnt jobs.

If you don't believe me - I don't give a shit. That's what happened.

We went through Sac State. Call them. Verify. Do whatever your little mind needs to do.

[Tinoire]

75. Like I said. "You went on a trip to "study the effects of capitalism

on communism"

Gotcha ;)

I've been to Cuba several times dear. Spent years in the Carribbean. I know all about some of these little educational trips and why they're held. Nothing like taking a bunch of people on "guided tours" to show them the "horrors of socialism" so they can come back to the US and help in the campaign to demonize Castro and all the progress the Cuban people made once they threw the American Mafia out.

"the ways that people use capitalism to live through communism"... The very phrase shows the calculated desire to show how capitalism saves from horrible, horrible communism. Kind of like Jesus ya know ;)

My "little mind", as you so charmingly call it, could grasp that. Can yours :shrug:

[MissBrooks]

76. You know so much....

Start talking....
What did you learn on your several trips to Cuba?
Tell us what your great mind derived from living in the area!

I'm on the edge of my seat to learn from you, the genius.

Go!

[Tinoire]

78. Regretfully,

I'd rather save my pearls :)

Just keep reading threads like this if you're so eager to learn. Or better yet, donate some money to DU and do a search in the archives. Your money would be going to a good, progressive cause dedicated to fighting the politics of fear and ignorance- a worthy cause I'm sure you'll agree.

[MissBrooks]

80. All I'm saying is that you

BASH everything I say and offer NO proof that you know anything more than I do.

So - go away.

I don't take "lessons" from people who just point fingers and laugh without saying anything else. It's a form of bullying that I won't tolerate.

[Tinoire]

81. LMAO!!!!

:)

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gorbal]

111. ok

In Cuba, many of the people start side businesses to make ends meet. So, the government pays for their "basics" (like rice, beans, coffee) but to buy shampoo, q-tips, toilet paper, diapers, etc. you need to come up with alternate $$$.


Was there anything "necessary" that they couldn't get?

[MissBrooks]

112. Necessary?

I think toilet paper is pretty necessary.

[gorbal]

113. I take it you don't do "Humanure"

There is a great free book on it here-

http://www.weblife.org/humanure/

[0007]

50. I'm excitingly waiting for Bozo to enlighten us!

after all we know absolutely nothing about Cuba or Castro.

[TwentyFive]

8. Castro has a huge ego - just like chimpy! Both are cut from the same cloth

[Bono71]

9. Amen to that. n/t

[Sara Beverley]

43. Bid difference. Castro has reason to have big ego. Bush doesn't.

I know it gripes many peoples' butts to see Castro survive. But he has outlasted all the Presidents who tried to kill him and a lot of the Miami re-located Cuban/Jewish/Italian mafia that used to run his country.

[jellybelly]

45. true democracy...

he "outlasted every president" ha ha:crazy:
He got elected every year I suppose

[Sara Beverley]

62. Elected as much as the US President in the last two terms.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!

[Wabbajack]

10. He has some good polices

but what about the jailed disidents and mistreatment of gays (except his brother Raul of course) and lack of freedom of speech and religion?

[Bono71]

11. Not to mention the fact that he just can't seem to

hold a democratic election...he's only been in power since 1959.

[Judi Lynn]

91. I posted an article last week here of pilgrims in Cuba

One of them has been going to the shrine of his saint Lazarus for 52 years. That means DURING the post revolution times. No one has thrown him into the slammer. I don't have the time to fish it out now, but many people may have read it last week.

How would you explain the reality of many Cubans who travel long distances to go to one particular shrine each year for religious reasons, untouched, unbothered?

Here's more about your vision of the absense of religion on Cuba:

Background Information on Cuba’s Protestant Churches
Compiled by the (U.S.) National Council of Churches

Overview: A Growing Church

The growth and strength of the Protestant churches in Cuba today is a story ripe for the telling! Protestants now constitute more than 50 percent of the Christian worshipping community. According to the Cuban Council of Churches Studies Center, 300,000 Protestants worship regularly in Cuba, and 280,000 Roman Catholics.

Faith has boomed in Cuba during the last few years. In May 1998, a (U.S.) National Council of Churches (NCC) delegation worshiped in three congregations – Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian – all reporting phenomenal growth. For example, Pastor Raul Suarez at the Ebenezer Baptist Church told delegation members that he had 20 persons in worship in 1990, now he has 300, and there are more than 20 trained facilitators of groups that meet regularly in each others’ homes for Bible study and prayer. Sunday mornings, Bible study groups for all ages - including for persons preparing for baptism - occupy virtually every corner of the church, classrooms, courtyard and offices.

The churches’ service to the community also is growing rapidly. For example, there now are denominational and ecumenical programs of care for the lonely elderly, for construction of housing for the community at large whatever their religion, and so forth.

National Protestant Celebration: May-June 1999

On June 20, 1999, a month-long celebration of faith by Cuba’s Protestants – including dozens of national, provincial, municipal and local church activities across Cuba -- concluded with an outdoor event in Havana’s Revolution Square. Organized by the Cuban Council of Churches, all of Cuba’s 50 Protestant denominations participated.
(snip/...)

http://www.ncccusa.org/news/cuba/protestant.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DU'ers (Democrats) discussed the visit by the head of the Russion Orthodox Church in Cuba last year, and the building of a new Russion Orthodox Church building for the Cubans who converted to that religion during the time some Russian advisors lived in Cuba, who wanted to good place to worship. Now they've got a great new building, and it was inaguarated by the head of their church, himself, along with many dignataries from all over the place, including high Cuban officials.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DU'ers (Democrats) have discussed at great length the arrest of 75 "dissidents" at the conclusion of YEARS of surveillance by undercover agents who testified at their trial, providing evidence that some of them were on the U.S. payroll, including the secretary aof the most obnoxious one, Marta Beatrice Roque, who had intimate knowledge of her financial affairs, and provided everything needed to nail her ass.

At a series of trials of Cuban dissidents in early April it was revealed that James Cason, the current head of the USIS, had conspired with them to provide information that Washington can use in its economic, political and propaganda war against the Cuban workers' and peasants' government.

On March 18, Cuban police began charging those involved in the US-funded dissident network. They were charged under a number of different articles in the Cuban penal code and subsequently sentenced to between 15 and 27 years imprisonment.

Article 5.1 of the penal code, under which many of those arrested were charged, states that any Cuban citizen “who seeks out information to be used in the application of the Helms-Burton Act, the blockade and the economic war against our people aimed at disrupting internal order, destabilising the country and liquidating the socialist state and the independence of Cuba, shall incur a sanction of deprivation of liberty”.

Article 6.1 states that any Cuban citizen “who gathers, reproduces, disseminates subversive material from the government of the United States of America, its agencies, representative bodies, officials or any foreign entity to support the objectives of the Helms-Burton Act, the blockade and the war, shall incur a sanction of deprivation of liberty”.

Others were charged under Article 91 of the penal code that states that any Cuban citizen “who executes an action in the interest of a foreign state with the purpose of harming the independence of the Cuban State or the integrity of its territory shall incur a sentence of 10 to 20 years of deprivation of liberty or death.”
(snip/...)

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2003/535/535p21.htm

Dissidents were often paid with U.S. funds channeled through a Canadian bank. The bank allows Cubans to access U.S.-supplied funds with a Transcard (debit card).
(snip)

In a recent television interview in Miami, Cason said the help he gave dissidents was "moral and spiritual" in nature. But, according to the testimony of several Cuban security agents who infiltrated the organizations that received U.S. support, the Interests Section became a general headquarters and office space for dissidents. Some of them, including Marta Beatriz Roque, had passes signed by Cason that allowed them free access to the Interests Section where they could use computers, telephones, and office machines.

The State Department calls these activities "outreach." However, under the United States Code, similar "outreach" by a foreign diplomat in the United States could result in criminal prosecution and a 10-year prison sentence for anyone "who agrees to operate within the United States subject to the direction or control of a foreign government or official (Title 18, section 951 of the United States Code).
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/sandels04262003.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, Cuba did NOT imprison gays. Someone has really been spreading stupid lies only the dumbest among us would buy.

Cuba leads the way in HIV fight

There has been no dramatic increase in HIV transmission in Cuba since the beginning of the epidemic, said Dr Barksdale at the at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Denver.

Cuba's 0.03% infection rate is one of the lowest in the world.

In addition, certain forms of HIV transmission that plague the rest of the globe are almost non-existent on the island.
(snip)

The country now produces enough anti-retroviral medicines to supply the country's patients. As a result, the 25% predicted mortality rates for patients with Aids in 2002 were instead 7%.
(snip)

Cuba established the National Commission on Aids in 1983 to provide education on the disease, a full two years before the first Cuban national contracted the virus, and at a time when the word "Aids" carried such stigma, US President Ronald Reagan refused to use it in public speeches.

But in Cuba, said Dr Barksdale, people had lived under socialism long enough to have "an idea of classlessness," which made educating the public and providing medical attention fairly straightforward.

Under Cuba's socialised health care system, all HIV/Aids patients receive medical care and drugs free of charge.
(snip)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/denver_2003/2770631.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for "free speech," why not try using your head? Would you be tempted to tell someone you consider the enemy how much you dispise George Bush? Why do you think Cubans would tell simple U.S. tourists their most intimate political considerations?

From the U.S. visitors I've heard from who have been to Cuba MANY times, they say Cuban are very open about their opinions on everything.

You might start trying to think things over before simply repeating them with the ignorance intact with which they were handed to you. There's a lot of bogus, and wildly stupid crap which gets circulated by people who think you're too slow witted to start looking for answers.

[lumpy]

118. Thanks Judi.

Kinda' blows the Swift Boat Castro Haters out of the water. Jesus, I am so sick of the salivating bastards who are itching to overthrow another government!

[Judi Lynn]

92. More on freedom of religion.

I'm sure religion means a great deal to you, or you wouldn't even consider bringing it up!

Havana's Original Synagogue
Of Havana's 3 million residents, there are 1400 Jews, most being orthodox or conservative. Just after the fall of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s, Castro proclaimed religious freedom for all. The government even provides some financial support for religious organizations. For the Jewish community here, most money comes from international Jewish organizations from the United States and Europe.
(snip/...)

http://www.danheller.com/cuba-jews.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rather than repeating the same accusations, you owe it to your good name to take time out and do a little research.

[lumpy]

117. Lack of freedom of religion?

The Pope wouldn't agree with you. Where do you get your information? Don't believe everything the far right war mongers have to say.

[govegan]

18. Viva Castro!

His name will be loved and revered long after the evil smirks of awol chimpy boy have mouldered with the dust of his bones.

Fidel has his flaws, as do we all. Cuba has its flaws, to be sure.

The neo-fascist war-mongering fools in DC have shown themselves to be greedier, more haughty and less just than their counterparts in Cuba.

Amerikans enjoy criticizing those whom they seldom even attempt to understand. Burning in the shame of their greed, the cold critical glares are often a vain attempt to mask the obvious.

[Bono71]

19. Govegan, with all due respect,

Bush is gone in 4 years...Castro has maintained a stranglehold on power since 1959...he will never step down until he is dead or too weak to defend himself against a rival.

And by the way, as a Cuban, I understand Castro more than most.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. "as a Cuban, I understand Castro more than most"

So, how's the weather in Havana?

[murray hill farm]

22. Exactly!!!

ha!!! Good question!!

[Tacos al Carbon]

24. What's good about that question?

n/t

[Bono71]

29. I don't understand the question.

[Minstrel Boy]

36. Naturally.

[Bono71]

38. How intellectual of you. n/t

[TahitiNut]

23. The ol' flatworm theory of learning, huh?

:silly:

[VegasWolf]

33. If you cut a republican in half can both sides find the church. n/t

[TahitiNut]

39. Even better. Feed each half to other flatworms ...

... and those flatforms will immediately get into the tail-kissing conga line. :evilgrin:

Flatworms are inherently Republican ... where gender (and sexual orientation) is actually a 'choice' depending on circumstances. There's no such thing as homosexuality among hermaphrodites. (They can fuck without guilt even if they do fight it out to see who's the fucker and who's the fuckee.)

[VegasWolf]

40. Yeah, I had thought of that but I figured that there were no brains to

grind up anyway. The slush that passes for their processing
ability would only turn to soup.

[VegasWolf]

41. Excellent idea! Then the flatworms can go to church. n/t

[Pastiche423]

26. Yes, please tell one and all

what it is like for you to live your life in Cuba.

[Bono71]

27. We were lucky to get out, and I don't remeber what it was like...

but I can tell you that my mother risked her life (and ours) to get out, and we grew up very poor.

I will not go back until he is gone.

You can make fun of me and other Cubans who left. It is strange to be mocked by supposed "progressives." Ironic, actually.

[Pastiche423]

35. So, you admit

you do not know what it is like living in Cuba, as you have no recognition at all of living there.

And we should believe your opinion, why?

[Bono71]

37. You should believe me because I am more connected

to that country than you will ever be. I know people who went back to visit relatives, I have extended relatives that live there. I think of Cuba every day of my life...I am more concerned about its welfare than you, my "progressive" friend.

I have relatives that just disappeared. Gone. Never heard from again. Some, I believe, left the country. Some were killed---my mother believes because they were Catholic...

Look, this is an internet message board...you don't have to believe me...

But again, ask yourself, why and how has the same man stayed in power since 1959? Why do people flee the country, literally kill themselves to leave? Why do gorups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International condemn the regime? Why are politcial opponents jailed? Why were homosexuals persecuted?

[govegan]

47. Sorry for the pain and suffering of your loved ones, my friend.

I have a relative and friends that just disappeared into the meat grinder of Viet Nam.

American prisons are practically overflowing with non-violent criminals, dissidents if you will.

We have seen the strange fruit on America's trees.

Have you ever noticed a statue of justice depicted with scales and a blindfold?

Great pain and suffering has been inflicted upon innocent life in the last fifty years by the nation known as the USA.

When people flee their homelands to the USA and buy into the illusion of freedom and democracy, they more often than not are buying into more than they bargained for. They pay tax dollars to a corrupt warfare state, that neither knows nor promotes peace in the world.

Surely, Nixon and GWBush are two different individuals, but the neo-fascist imperialism that they promote, promulgate and instigate is the same.

You may hope for a different man, a different power,
But very real pain and suffering progresses by the hour.

[0007]

52. Probably because some folks were supporting a corrupt regime of

the dictator Fulgencio Batista.

[guajira]

65. Boner71, People from everywhere die trying to get to the US

Why don't you talk about the Cubans that fly from Havana to visit Miami and then fly back to their homes in Cuba?

If you're as knowledgeable about Cuba as you claim to be, then you must know at least several people who travel regularly to Miami, NY, etc. and then return to the island.

Miami bullshitters would like Americans to think that every Cuban who leaves the island risks their lives and are dying to live in the US. NOT TRUE!!!

Then there are some who do leave illegally and in no time are back in Cuba visiting their families! I've been to Cuba, I've lived in Miami many years and have friends on both sides of Florida Strait. I too think of Cuba every single day.

Cuba is very different from the way it is described in Miami. It's a poor country, but not as poor as other Latin American countries and Caribbean countries. No homeless, no street kids, school is mandatory. Cubans are proud and have a right to be. The only ones who denigrate Cuba are the Miami hate-mongers!

[MissBrooks]

42. Your mother is a courageous woman

So many of the people there talk about leaving... they just don't have a way - yet.
If you leave - you will not see any relative/friend who stays - so, they generally try to leave in groups.

Another weird thing...
There are so few boats there... it was eerie.
When you are sitting on the beach looking at the water... no boats, no jet skis, no canoes, kayaks, nothing.

I hope that all of the Cubans find their freedom soon.

Happy Holidays, Bono71... be proud of your mother ....

[lumpy]

119. Why do they want to leave?

For the toilet paper, jet skiis, material crap, job opportunities? According to what I hear, they have the basics( eccept toilet paper). They appear to have the better of the basics, educational opportunies, health care, food, clothing and shelter and a sense of decency and integrity that is lacking in so many US Americans.
I can tell you this, having lived through the US 30's depression, that many many people had to do without toilet paper, material possessions, no jobs, no welfare, healthcare and all those precious basics. The odd thing is that people were more loving and caring and willing to help those who had a little bit less in those times. Materialism and the love of money is destroying this country.
Cubans should have the right to determine their own destiny without any help from peole in this country who are willing to use destructive means to accomplish their false mission of 'freedom and democracy'.

[Traction]

60. Interesting how you pro-Castro people

Are the first to call for Chile's Augusto Pinochet's head. Why is that, when Pinochet's record on his people doesn't hold a candle to Castro's murderous regime.

[Heimdallr]

114. May he walk right into hot lead. Free the Cuban people.

Amerikans enjoy criticizing those whom they seldom even attempt to understand.

That may well be, but it's not the case here. Death to the murderous scum that Castro is.

[jellybelly]

44. too bad...

I want him to fall again. I miss hysterical laughter.

[robcon]

46. I think it is regrettable...

that people on Democratic Underground support a dictator like Castro. His suppression of people's rights (speech, religion, running for office, etc.) is the worst in the Western Hemisphere, now that Chile, Brazil and Argentina are democracies.

[captain jack]

53. I think it's regrettable

that people on demacratic underground support a dictator like bush (tax dollars). His suppresion of peoples rights(speech,religion,running for office, etc.) is fast becoming the worst in the world. Spewing comments on castro from inside the borders of the u.s. where we are allowing a whole new monster to take shape and financing it is alarming. Perhaps when castro is gone all the castro haters can go to cuba and piss and moan about bush's twelth cousin who's family has been destroying peoples lives in america since the first became president. Say good-bye to the boats.

[bones_7672]

49. May he die soon, but slowly, agonizingly.

I will rejoice when his statues are pulled down and children dance on his portraits.

[captain jack]

55. Think of all the dead civilians that will die too. AWESOME HUH!!!

The tone of your message is...well...very american.
WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!! Oh by the way, amercan soldiers will have more than likely killed alot of those dancing children.

[Mika]

56. There are NO statues of Castro in Cuba - not one!

You are a victim of propaganda. I've been to Cuba, many times, many places. There are zero statues of him. There are posters and billboards of Che, not of Castro.

[Tinoire]

70. Yeah by why ruin their fun?

Besides, these are the kind of facts that give the propagandists away everytime ;)

Statues of Castro indeed.

(snip)

Havana lacks the stateliness of capital cities. Although it has many unique architectural treasures, there are no statues of Castro dominating the streets. The only heroes that are allowed to be worshipped are the dead ones, such as the Argentinean revolutionary Che Guevara or Jose Marti, Cuba’s independence hero.

(snip)


On the eve of the 1959 revolution, Cuba was a semi-developed country with huge social and economic disparities. Under the leadership of Fulgencio Batista, a right-wing military dictator, the Cuban economy was placed largely in the hands of foreigners, mainly US transnationals. Cuba’s sandy beaches and cities such as Havana were the playing grounds of American and European millionaires. The peasantry in the countryside remained semi-literate and poor. Only 2 per cent of the rural population had piped water. Almost half the population had never been to school.

The revolution, led by Fidel Castro, Che Guevara and a handful of guerrillas, significantly improved the living conditions of millions of Cubans. Castro introduced agrarian reform and distributed agricultural land to the peasants. Urban shantytowns disappeared. The state ensured that everyone had access to housing. Health care and education were made available to all for free. Every Cuban, from the doctor to the waiter, became a civil servant. Even musicians received a monthly salary from the state. All foreign companies were nationalised. Free enterprise was abolished.

As Madame Mitterand, widow of the late French President, remarked, Castro succeeded in creating a society free of "the dictatorship of money." These policies led the US to impose a trade embargo on the country, which is in force even today.

(snip)

But many Cubans will defend their way of life as being the most just and humane society in the world, despite the Western world’s obsession with its lack of press freedom and its recent execution of hijackers. And they are probably right. Silvia, an architect whose father had returned to Cuba from Chicago in the 1960s, told me that she felt that it was the best decision he had made. "In the States, my father was just a slave, a hot dog vendor," she said.

"He came back to Cuba because he knew he would have a chance at a decent life. Look at me. I don’t have a car or a personal computer. I don’t have many things. But I have security. I have an education and even my teeth are taken care of by the government. What else do I need?"

(snip)

http://www.mashada.com/forums/index/show_topic/28/4522/

(snip)


Government building in the Plaza de la Revolución with a portrait of Che Guevera. The government seems to be very modest, there are NO STATUES OF CASTRO, they vacated the beautiful Capitolo building and moved into one of these more drab institutional looking buildings but Che is everywhere and on everything. Everyone loves Che in Cuba.

http://cuba.phiz.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Havana&page=19

Meanwhile from the "EnterStageRight" people

Even the most vehement opponents of the war in Iraq can't help
but (perhaps surreptitiously) smile at the sight of Iraqis -- finally
free from the yoke of brutal repression -- celebrating in the
streets. The joy of Iraq's populace at their newfound liberty is
contagious and seemingly the entire world has joined in their
roisterous jubilance.

(snip)

Let's hope it is not
too long before we see a free Cuban people smashing statues of
Castro and reclaiming some of the riches and dignity he's pillaged
from them.
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0503/0503castro.txt


The Cuba Libre crowd loves to talk about all the "statues of Castro" too. Kind of shows you how out of touch they are, they can't produce a single one when challenged on boards.

http://www.highbeam.com/aspx/getThumb.aspx?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages%2Ealacritude%2Ecom%2Fdrsservice%2Fservicemanager%2Fdo%2Fservice%3Fserviceid%3Dgetcomponent%26docid%3D53061890%26mt%3Dimage%252Fjpeg%26ts%3D4533344634463533353235323345%26doclocation%3D03%252F29%252FA9%252F02%2Ejpg


http://www.highbeam.com/aspx/getThumb.aspx?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages%2Ealacritude%2Ecom%2Fdrsservice%2Fservicemanager%2Fdo%2Fservice%3Fserviceid%3Dgetcomponent%26docid%3D69098843%26mt%3Dimage%252Fjpeg%26ts%3D4646314431443239333233323236%26doclocation%3D04%252F1E%252F5D%252F5B%2Ejpg

[Judi Lynn]

90. Although it makes a person almost ill to consider,Houston has a Bush statu

Absolutely shameful. It shows they've got more money than dignity in Houston!

Dec. 3, 2004, 12:11AM
Bush receives monumental honor
A downtown statue celebrates the feats of the former president
By ALLAN TURNER
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

The air fairly quivered with praise as speakers at Thursday's dedication of downtown Houston's $1.7 million George Bush Monument strove to describe the former president's virtues. Statesman, war hero, humanitarian, inspired businessman — superlatives topped superlatives.

Mayor Bill White said Bush was "a model of what it means to be a citizen of the greatest city in the greatest country in the world." Former television news anchor Ron Stone opined Bush was the "most important" Houstonian ever, "with the possible exception of Sam Houston."

Bush, seated with his wife, Barbara, seemed bemused.

"When I was a lot younger," the Massachusetts-born Bush told those gathered at the Sesquicentennial Park ceremony, "my mother told me, 'No one likes braggadocio.' I had to look it up. No one likes a braggart. No one likes someone who gets honored all the time."

Pigeon attraction?
Then the former president diffidently gestured to his 8-foot bronze statue, surrounded with bas-relief panels depicting the highlights of his life. "Now," he said, "the pigeons can come relax in this park."
(snip/...)

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/lofiversion/index.php/t856.html



Why the HELL would they make it LARGER THAN LIFE? Omigod!
What highlights? Having slimey murderous sons? A wife who won't acknowledge the destruction and suffering they've forced upon the people of the world?



A statue of US President George Bush
stands in London's Trafalgar Square,
Thursday Nov. 20, 2003, prior to a
renactment of the destruction of Saddam
Hussein's statue in Baghdad, as part of
a demonstration against President Bush's
state visit to Britain. (AP Photo/Yui Mok, PA)

[Minstrel Boy]

94. Spot the fascist eyesore:

Your example lives, your ideas endure

Der Fuhrer

[Judi Lynn]

97. Wonder how many wrecks there have been at the base of the Bush billboard

when people saw that idiotic sneer, and suddenly and drove off the road!





"I hear there's rumors on the internets."

[Tinoire]

104. The chimp-in-chief thanks all the little chimps ignorant enough

to believe his lies and propaganda:

[Judi Lynn]

106. This could only happen when a guy is brought up around people

who have to defer to him.

He really SHOULD thank EVERYONE. Everyone has helped him protect his delusions of grandeur.

He's one blissful man, no doubt. Daddy's little guy.

[lumpy]

120. Good grief the spoilers are

groping here today!

[0007]

96. You talk like you got a paper asshole, there are no statues

of Castro in Cuba.

[Judi Lynn]

100. Isn't that an odd one?

Just about the rarest one I've seen yet here. Can't imagine how a person could become that confused.



Must be so satisfying being able to pull something like that out of somewhere!



"I hear there's rumors on the internets."

[0007]

103. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays Judi Lynn

I don't know where these people came from all of a sudden, I don't think its the normal crowd.

[Judi Lynn]

105. Maybe "normal" for some part of Miami!

I'm sure glad Elián's home with his father, step-mother, and two half-brothers, four grandparents, uncles, aunts, and his first cousins!

What could they have been "thinking?" As if!

Well, you can be sure they'll be back, hoping to catch a time when no one will be on board to communicate with them about the importance of accuracy while raving.



Merry Christmas to you, 0007. Only four short years ahead! Glad there are some good people at D.U. with whom to experience it...

[Mika]

54. For those who don't know..

Despite the fact that this info has been posted for the anti Cuba factions to read - but, obviously thay haven't.

Despite the mewlings of the anti Cuba faction, here is some information for those who are truly interested in Cuba & not just demonizing one Cuban (and thereby ignoring the vast majority of Cubans in Cuba)..


Here are some of the major parties in Cuba.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6300&forum=DCForumID70


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.
He is one of the elected 607 representatives in the Cuban National Assembly. It is from that body that the head of state is nominated and then elected. Raul Castro, Carlos Large, and Ricardo Alarcon and others were among the nominated last year. President Castro has been elected to that position since 1976.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books




___



Before the 1959 revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.

___



After the 1959 revolution

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

[captain jack]

57. Before 59 sounds like americas future. Thanks for useful info.

[ronnykmarshall]

61. My dos pesos

One of my best friends went to Cuba a while back (before fuck-head stopped allowing teachers to go there), she loved it. The people she met were happy and loved meeting americans.

As far as Castro goes, the folks she met didn't talk much about him.

My point is probably not in line to the subject, but from what I got from her reflections of her trip, Cuba is not a threat to us as the government wants us to think. Also Cubans have a great respect and love for Americans.

What really frosts my ass is the god-damn embargo. We are on good terms with China and their humans rights record sucks. We deal with governments as bad or not worse that Castro, so what's the deal?

Yeah, Castro's a prick. I'm not going to shead a tear when he drops dead. So why the hell is our chicken shit government making the people of Cuba suffer?

End of doe pesos rant.

[donheld]

63. I'm not going to enter the flame war

but it is my hope that someday soon, without the "help" of bushie, Cuba can join the list of free nations, that hate can be put aside, and Cuba can join in the community of peace.

[VegasWolf]

64. Boy, you are a nice guy! What are you doing here? n/t

[guajira]

66. Cuba is already in the "community of peace"

It's the US that is attacking poor 3rd world countries that are no threat to us.

[donheld]

74. The peace i wish for Cuba

would have the US embargo etc. with Cuba done away with.

[Mika]

67. Cuba is at peace

America is at war.

Its the US that constantly threatens Cuba. The extraterritorial sanctions the US placed on Cuba (the Helms-Burton law, for one) are tantamount to a declaration of war.

[American Tragedy]

68. I find it very strange

that people think that because America has done bad things, no other nation or head of state should ever be criticized, even when it is absolutely justifiable and accurate. Weren't you ever taught that tu quoque is a fallacious argument?

[Mika]

69. Who said that?

"...that people think that because America has done bad things, no other nation or head of state should ever be criticized..."

Who said that?

Just as long as they're accurate, criticisms are fine.. As long as the pot doesn't mind being called black.

[Traction]

79. Remember when he visited NYC around 1993?

What I wanna know is why didn't the CIA rub him off? It would have been easy.

[Tinoire]

87. He outfoxed them in NY

When Castro came to NY, he took the entire floor of the hotel and posted guards at each entrance of the floor. The CIA had been expecting that. What they hadn't expected was that he would bring ALL of his own water and food- down to live chickens.

He was initially supposed to stay in the Hotel Shelburne but after gettig a whiff of the CIA's set-up there, he & his 90 person entourage, left and went to the the Black-owned and run Theresa Hotel in Harlem where Black people had no intention of letting the CIA get to him because he was very loved there.

In Harlem, he met with everyone from Nikita Khrushchev to Malcolm X to Gamal Nasser. He and the Black Panthers made it impossible for the US to get to him "discreetly" enough to get away with it. When the CIA tried to keep him in this country by impounding impounding his planes for "non-payment of US debts", Kruschev sent in a fleet to get him back to Cuba.

It certainly wasn't for lack of effort that they let him get away, he outfoxed them at every turn.

Here's a copy of the stirring 4 1/2 hour speech www.marxists.org/history/cuba/archive/castro/1953/10/16.htm that he gave to the UN.

When he came back in 1995, he went to Harlem again where he was warmly greeted: http://www.pww.org/archives95/95-10-28-2.html and people were screaming "Who would you rather come to Harlem, Fidel or Giuliani?" and Democratic politicians like Charles Rangel, Maxine Waters, and Nydia Velasquez went to greet him.

Anyway, it was kind of hard for the CIA to get to him in Harlem where people love him and would have spilled their blood for him.


With people, note mostly Black, at the Theresa Theresa


At the Theresa Hotel

[Judi Lynn]

89. Thanks, Tinoire, for throwing some light on his first visit.

It was grossly misrepresented in the media at the time, to say the least.

There were some critical details in your post I've never learned until today. So glad to find out more.

I'm going to keep those photos: they are excellent. Thank you.

I heard (on C-Span) his speech at the Riverside Church when he returned in 2000. First time I ever saw him on tv giving a speech.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monday, September 11th, 2000
Fidel in Harlem

Listen to Segment || Download

Days after celebrating his 74th birthday and dressed in his familiar but faded military fatigues, Cuban President Fidel Castro, headed to Harlem after the United Nations Millenium Summit. There at Riverside, the church that Rockefeller built, he addressed a crowd of thousands.
This was Castro's fifth visit to the US since the 1959 Cuban Revolution. In 1960, after less than friendly treatment at a midtown Manhattan hotel, he stayed in Harlem where he was welcomed by Malcolm X and Langston Hughes. In 1995 at the 50th anniversary of the United Nations, Castro again went to Harlem where he spoke at the Abyssinian Baptist Church.

This time around, as the media debated whether Castro and Clinton and shook hands at the Summit (they did!), thousands filled the Riverside Church, and flowed out onto the surrounding streets as the Cuban President spoke.

Among the national politicians present, Los Angeles Congressmember Maxine Waters said she was not there to represent the Democratic Party, but was there on behalf of herself. And in response to New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's comments that Castro should not be allowed into the US because he is a murderer, Bronx Congressman Jose Serano said Castro's presence helped to clarify Giuliani's future - a run for mayor of Miami!
(snip/...)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0240224

(One half hour audio segment available at this site for those who can hear it.)

[Tinoire]

107. Thanks! I love listening to him speak

and am going to be combing through the wealth of links you provided this afternoon!

I was too young to pay attention to his visit in the 60s but I remember what a stir it caused! Gosh, I wish I could have seen it, been there, gone to greet him! I'm just glad my brothers and sisters gave him such a terrific welcome and ensured his safety! :)

The discussion took place at the Hotel Theresa in Harlem, shortly after the Cuban delegation's arrival on the evening of September 19. As Castro stated thirty years later: "I will always recall my meeting with Malcolm X at the Hotel Theresa, because he was the one who made it possible and gave his support so that we could stay there. We had two alternatives . One was the United Nations gardens. When I mentioned this to the secretary-general, he was horrified at the thought of a delegation in tents there. But then we received Malcolm X's offer - he had spoken with one of our compañeros. And I said, `That is the place, the Hotel Theresa.' And there we went."

(snip)

Commenting on the meeting, Malcolm X told the press, "Premier Castro has come out against lynching, which is more than President Eisenhower has done. Castro has also taken a more open stand for civil rights for Black Cubans."

Malcolm X met with Castro as a prominent member of a "welcoming committee" that had been set up in Harlem several weeks earlier. The purpose of this group, which included a wide range of Black community leaders, was to greet heads of state, particularly from African countries, who would be in New York to address the UN General Assembly. Sixteen African countries were admitted to membership in the UN at that session.

Malcolm X came under attack in the media for his initiative in welcoming the Cuban delegation and for taking responsibility for the organization of a defense guard at the Hotel Theresa to assure their safety. When prominent members of the Welcoming Committee refused to support Malcolm's stand, he publicly resigned from that body. "During the time Dr. Castro was in Harlem, thanks to the Nationalists and the Muslims, there was no rioting or lawlessness in Harlem," Malcolm X wrote. "The Muslims and the Black Nationalists in Harlem exerted every imaginable effort to see that Harlem remained `calm and orderly.' "

"Despite this," he continued, "the daily press has unleashed a savage propaganda attack against us, purposely distorting facts, purposely telling bare-faced lies, labeling us as lawless terrorists, subversives, seditionists, etc." In resigning from the Welcoming Committee, Malcolm pledged to "henceforth confine my activities and efforts with and among the little men in the street, whose honesty and integrity makes them fearless when time comes to take an uncompromising stand, without hesitation, on the side of right and truth." http://www.themilitant.com/1995/5941/5941_20.html

http://www.themilitant.com/1995/5941/5941_20.html

\\

[Judi Lynn]

109. Yep, I was the same: too young, but remember seeing it in magazines, etc.

The media ran riot with that. You would have thought a 500 ft. tall Satan arose from the bowels of Hell, and was roaring, drinking, and throwing people around. They actually tried to make him into a modern Rasputin, didn't they?

Before leaving, I wanted to mention I didn't know about the knife attack on Che Guevara by a Cuban "exile" female when he went to make a speech there until a couple of years ago.

When I feel surer of spending time on the internet, I'll go find the info. She broke through the barricades and rushed him without getting him. He didn't have anything derrogatory to say about her at all. He tossed it off. Very interesting story.

Merry holidays, Tinoire! Sure great seeing your worthwhile posts here. You do so much more by helping put info. right where we can find it. From experience I can tell you, there's a TON of stuff people wouldn't know if somehow it didn't wind up right under their damned noses! I've been so blank in important areas until I have been awakened by reading material from people I respected and started looking into it myself. Way to go! Thank you.

[Mika]

110. Merry holidays to you too, Judi Lynn

:hi: :toast:

Your research is invaluable. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Thank you.

[Minstrel Boy]

98. "How can I go to Harlem dressed in a business suit?"

Thanks for that great link, Tinoire. :hi:

Castro, who spoke for over an hour, was interrupted by applause numerous times as he presented a militant attack against the blockade and a spirited defense of the achievements of the Cuban revolution. He joked about donning a business suit for his address to the U.N. General Assembly's 50th anniversary celebrations.

"I got rid of the business suit," he quipped. "I said to myself, the last time I went to Harlem I was wearing my fatigues. How can I go to Harlem dressed in a business suit?"

Declaring that the Cuban people will never renounce their revolution, Castro cited the achievements of socialism. Infant mortality is now only 10 {since down to only 6} per 1,000 live births, lower than New York City. Cuba has trained 60,000 doctors -- 15,000 of them serving in other nations around the world. To the delight and enthusiastic applause of the crowd, Castro offered to send Cuban doctors to Harlem or anywhere else in the U.S. to serve people lacking medical care. Castro stressed Cuba's assistance in fighting neocolonialism.

http://www.pww.org/archives95/95-10-28-2.html

[Tinoire]

108. LMAO!

"I said to myself, the last time I went to Harlem I was wearing my fatigues. How can I go to Harlem dressed in a business suit?"

I'm loving this man more and more...

[Judi Lynn]

82. I've read parts of this thread in short visits, computer on its last legs

but I had to try to get something on the record concerning the attitude of the people attending his speech after he fell:

When Castro fell, aides rushed to lift him up and seat him on a folding chair out of sight of all but a handful of the estimated 30,000 people attending the event.

At that point, he demanded a microphone to address the crowd. His image was broadcast on two giant screens situated on either side of the plaza and startled home viewers, not all of whom were aware that something had gone wrong. The faces of people at the activity reflected consternation and shock. A few people could be seen crying.

Cubans like academic Olga Fernandez, who'd been watching the graduation on national television, felt his effort to personally explain what happened was one more display of Castro's "courage and integrity."

Expressing a similar opinion is American dancer and long-time resident in Cuba, Lorna Burdsal, who has personally know Castro since 1969.

"He's an old war horse who never stops going no matter what happens," she said approvingly.

Grocery store clerk Samuel Garcia said, "We could see him sweating profusely as he spoke and my wife, who's a doctor, told me that was a sign of great pain."

Cuban television viewers have still not seen Castro's fall, although footage shot by international news agencies is being shown widely on U.S. television. Many Cubans however, have seen photos of the incident on Yahoo and other popular Internet web sites.
(snip/...)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/21/world/main650527.shtml

As you see, it also referred to the fact some Cubans read about it on the internet, and this is ALSO important, as rightwing propagandists try to tell Americans Cubans have no access to the "internets."

There are far more articles in the same vein concerning the crowd reaction to the fall, as well as a previous mishap, when he collapsed giving a 3 hour speech on a hot day in Cuba, a couple of years ago. If I can get my computer to do the job, I'll post references on that one, too.

Congrats to Tinoire. I saw the beautiful and fitting remarks concerning "statues of Castro," and also to Mika. How many pathetic drooling lies can they try to pass off without anyone checking them?
Good gawdalmighty!

I'm not able to post a lot until something gets done about my machine. It definitely comes and goes with no warning.

Merry Holidays to the DEMOCRATS at Democratic Underground!

[Judi Lynn]

83. More on Fidel Castro's fall, and the public perception

The Cuban revolutionary leader said he preferred to leave the city in a jeep rather than an ambulance and urged people to continue their programme of events.

Mr Castro had been speaking at the mausoleum where the remains of fellow revolutionary Che Guevara are kept.

He delivered a one-hour speech to mark a graduation of arts instructors.

When he fell, some of those among the audience of 30,000 broke into tears, a Reuters correspondent reports.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3761748.stm

[Judi Lynn]

85. Public reaction to that fall:

The Cuban President tripped and fell as he left the stage after a televised speech in the central city of Santa Clara, 280 kilometres east of Havana, on Wednesday night. A government statement yesterday said he had broken his left knee and his right arm.

Dr Castro, 78, quickly got up with the help of his bodyguards and, sitting on a chair, hastened to assure the audience he remained in control and full of enthusiasm.

"Please excuse me for having fallen," he smiled, clad in his trademark olive uniform.

"Just so no one speculates, I may have a fracture in my knee and maybe one in my arm. But I remain in one piece."

The audience, which had gasped as it watched him fall, responded with cheers and thunderous applause.
(snip/...)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/21/1098316794843.html?from=storylhs

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

United States don-t wish Fidel Castro speedy recovery

01:12 2004-10-22
Cuban President Fidel Castro injured one of his knees and possibly an arm yesterday when he fell as he returned to his seat after making a speech at a graduation ceremony in central Cuba.

The 78-year-old leader was picked up by bodyguards and helped into a chair at the graduation ceremony for art instructors in Santa Clara.

Castro asked for a microphone and told the crowd of about 30,000, some of whom broke into tears when he fell, that there was no cause for alarm, New Zealand Herald informed.
(snip/...)

http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2004/10/22/56738.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

......In the last several years, Castro's knees have seemed more wobbly, his step less steady. Nevertheless, he maintains a busy schedule that frequently includes all-night meetings with aides and visitors.

Average Cubans did not seem as alarmed Thursday as they were three years ago, when Castro fainted in the scorching Caribbean sun during a live televised speech before a crowd of thousands.

"He needs to get well soon," Georgina Hernandez said Thursday as she walked on the streets of Old Havana. "The Cuban people need him and need him to last a long time."

Taxi driver Emilio Lagos said, "I hope he will have good health for at least 20 more years."

"He's our guide," added Fermina Pino, a middle-aged Cuban woman.
(snip/...)

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1004/182194.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are so many more examples, but you should get the idea.

[Judi Lynn]

86. Sly machinations by Bush government, involving churches in Cuba maneuvers

U.S.-Cuba tensions make U.S. dollars unwelcome in helping Cubans

By Agostino Bono
Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- Giving away money is normally easy.

But right now takers are leery if the dollars come from the U.S. government and are for people-to-people programs building bridges between the United States and Cuba.

The usually turbulent relations between the U.S. government and the 46-year-old regime of Cuban President Fidel Castro have whipped up to hurricane force during the Bush administration.

Caught in the eye of the storm are U.S. Catholic universities being encouraged by the U.S. Agency for International Development to apply for government grants to promote people-to-people programs aimed at transforming the country into a democracy in the post-Castro era.

U.S. Catholic institutions are valuable links because of their strong ties to the Cuban Catholic Church, the only national organization in the Caribbean country independent of the government. But Catholic university officials worry that accepting U.S. funds could put their programs at risk.

It also appears that the Cuban bishops would not participate in programs funded directly or indirectly by the U.S. government given the Cuban government's antagonism toward U.S.-sponsored initiatives.
(snip/...)

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0407026.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On edit: I'm sorry to say there's a huge mistake in this article. I just reread it and saw it instantly this time. It says that the Catholic church is the only national organization there independent of the Cuban government. They are WAY off.

Of religious organizations, there are Jewish, Methodist, Baptist, and Pentacostal synagogues/churches that I've read about recently, and can remember clearly. I've posted articles about them here.

Also, ministers from those organizations used to come to the U.S. and attend religious conferences here before _Bush crowned himself emperor here. I've posted articles on that, too.

So the Catholic writer of the article above needed to do more research. (He may have gotten confused from taking the word of someone in Miami!)

[Algorem]

115. Those Cubans should have pretend democracy like we have here.

[lumpy]

122. The greatest greed of all

is the greed for power. The hassle has nothing to do with democracy.

[Chicago Democrat]

123. Castro is an angel compared to Bush - nt