Falluja returnees angry, "city unfit for animals"

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L24712064.htm

FALLUJA, Iraq, Dec 24 (Reuters) - Iraqis reacted with anger, frustration and resentment on Friday after many returned to Falluja to discover their homes in rubble and their livelihoods ruined following last month's U.S. offensive.

"I saw the city and al-Andalus destroyed," said Ali Mahmood, 35, referring to the district of the city he returned to briefly on Thursday but now plans to leave after seeing the mess.

"My house is completely destroyed. There is nothing left for me to stay for," the teacher said, adding that he would rather live in the tented camp outside Falluja that has been his family's home for the past two months.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, on a suprise pre-Christmas visit to Iraq, visited troops at a base near Falluja on Friday but made no mention of the city's rebuilding.

more

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

4. If gross Photo's like those that saigon68 post can't wake up Amerika

What will?

"There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people for a purpose which is unattainable."
U.S. historian Howard Zinn, 1993

George W. Bush is a war criminal

[robbedvoter]

10. You mean, furriners whose skin is "different than ours?" Good luck

with that one....

I believe that people whose skins aren't necessarily, you know, are a different color than white, can self-govern.
GW Bush

[TahitiNut]

15. I'm old enough to remember when photos of lynchings were common.

Such photos were treated with a kind of macho, superior pride ... much like photos of outlaws headed for boot hill. I'm continually amazed at how people can rationalize atrocities. "Good Germans" ignoring the ovens next door isn't an aberration.

[saigon68]

17. you mean this photo ??? (graphic)

Lynching 1930

A mob of 10,000 whites took sledgehammers to the county jailhouse doors to get at these two young blacks accused of raping a white girl; the girl’s uncle saved the life of a third by proclaiming the man’s innocence. Although this was Marion, Ind., most of the nearly 5,000 lynchings documented between Reconstruction and the late 1960s were perpetrated in the South. (Hangings, beatings and mutilations were called the sentence of “Judge Lynch.”)

Some lynching photos were made into postcards designed to boost white supremacy, but the tortured bodies and grotesquely happy crowds ended up revolting as many as they scared

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/lm18.html

[0007]

18. Thanks for the reminder of the Christian world we live in....

Not much has changed from the 30's, except loopholes in the law.

[TahitiNut]

19. Yup. Just like that. Notice the 'Saturday Night Fever' of the crowd?

It's a "date night" ... better than a drive-in movie. The "Good Citizens" of Indiana took great pride in such atrocities. As a kid, I remember wondering what the hell I was going to do if I had to live in this kind of world. I felt like an "outsider" when I was growing up. There were people in my family who'd easily be in such a crowd.

[NNN0LHI]

52. I have some good Christian family members that could be in that crowd too

They were just about all on the verge of conniptions when OJ got off. I reminded them of times in America when a white girl would claim a black man raped her and there would be several blacks hanging from the trees when the sun cam up the following day. They didn't like to be reminded about those injustices. Just OJ, OJ, OJ. They were obsessed for months about it. Still kind of are. Like they were related to the victims or something? Sheesh.

Don

[TahitiNut]

55. The reaction to the OJ verdict was embarrassing.

There's an interesting 'extra' on the DVD of 'To Kill A Mockingbird' where a number of people, including cast members, discuss the film and its relevance to the times. One of the people is a black attorney who practices in the south. He noted that defense attorneys today in many parts of the south try to eliminate black jurors when the defendant is black. It's his observation that nowadays black jurors are less likely to cut a black defendant any slack. I think it's interesting that most of the ill-informed Monday morning quarterbacks on the OJ verdict incorporate no such perception in their attitudes. (I sometimes feel like one of a handful of sane people in an overcrowded loony bin when I express far greater trust in the real jury than in spin-fed boob-tube juror-wannabes.)

[KDLarsen]

59. I remember a reading a story on Johnny Cochran

It was a while ago, but IIRC he said that he wished he had never played the racial card.

[Chipper Chat]

34. I lived three blocks from where this photo was taken.

Although I went to Marion High School 26 years later I dont recall anyone ever talking about this event. I guess was just too shameful, as those boys were only 18 & 16. The beautiful elm trees were cut down soon after.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

51. Dear God forgive us.

It's things like that that make me wish I weren't white.

:-(

[ashmanonar]

53. it's not a matter of not wanting to be white,

but rather a problem of not wanting race to matter...i hate hearing my parents, grandparents, all the rest of my family talk about any sort of "colored" people...you'd never believe how prejudiced the average american was until you actually heard them talk...

i'd be much happier if MLK jr's dream were a reality

[okieinpain]

56. oh I believe it, one of my little irony's of life is the book "christine"

by stephen king. there is not one black character in the book, but the word nigger is in it. go figure.

[HoundDog260]

62. That gets a standing ovation from me.

[VolcanoJen]

14. I finally watched "Control Room"

Saigon, every American should watch it, and every American should be made aware of those photographs you shared in this thread.

My heart aches for our soldiers and the people of Iraq.

[lebkuchen]

16. Not really

Rabies is rampant. That's why our military is shooting all of Fallujah's animals, which rank higher on "America's People's Choice Awards" than the Fallujans themselves.

[DELUSIONAL]

20. Is there documentation for this claim

if it comes from the military -- then I'll write it off to another one of their big lies.

In Vietnam a whole squadron of planes was called out to kill a water buffalo -- it is common for the fucking military to murder all the animals and then make wild claims.

In the first Gulf War the planes would take out flocks of sheep -- just because they could -- for no other reason.

So the claim that SHEEP and other livestock have rabies is just so much bull shit to cover for the war crimes.

Right now the ONLY soldiers I will support are the ones who won't go or who refuse to take part in the war crimes.

DO NOT MAKE WILD CLAIMS unless you have a link from a neutral observer -- I've heard the lies from Vietnam -- and they are being repeated in Iraq by the fucking military.

Rule of thumb I learned in the 5th grade -- living on a military base -- EVERYTHING the military says is a lie -- unless an outside neutral observer can verify the military's story.

[lebkuchen]

22. Here you go

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4085109.stm

http://www.turkishpress.com/world/news.asp?id=041210033510.1bgx7r1p.xml


I would change "rampant" to "looming" in my post if I could, but it's past deadline to do so.

as per this report in the second URL:

Medical personnel say rabies is one of the biggest threats to people returning to the city. Cases of the disease were already reported in humans in Al-Anbar province before the Fallujah attack.

[DELUSIONAL]

26. Still no reason to slaughter Fallujah's sheep and

livestock -- AND just leave the animals where they fell.

Knowing the behavior of the military in past actions -- sorry -- don't buy the military's reason for killing every living thing that they encountered in this city.

More likely bushie told them to level the city -- 'cause he was going to show those Eye-EEEs who the Boss was.

Since I know that it was the practice of the military in Vietnam to eradicate crops and livestock to force villages out of an area -- I suspect that this is the real reason.

Killing every living creature on the claim of rabies -- and then just leaving the bodies to rot in the open so that the "rabies" can spread even further -- is proof to me that the real reason is that the aim is to turn Fallujah into a ghost town.

If rabies were the problem -- then the corpse would be piled up and burned.

So now we have a now reason for the destruction of Fallujah -- gotta kill all the POTENTIAL rabies carriers. It is extremely rare for livestock to get rabies -- let alone be carriers of the disease.

Might as well slaughter 90% of the Iraqis who MIGHT catch dozens of diseases due to starvation, poverty, lack of safe drinking water, etc. My guess is the perhaps 10% of the Iraqis can flee to other nations are have enough money to buy what they need.

Killing off livestock -- the food source of the people of Fallujah is genocide. Remember the Buffalo -- Indians -- same story -- different time -- but same damned Americans killing of the food source of the indigenous people.

Seems to me that this is deliberate destruction of a city on the whim of a frat boy -- who is know to be a vindictive mean SOB.

bush and his buddies are mad dog killers --

[neweurope]

42. I absolutely agree. They make it sound as if it were normal

for rabies to flourish under such circumstances. Complete nonsense. Rats and the diseases they carry are a real danger, but there is no mention of rats. They're killing the lifestock - and they don't want pictures like the ones that saigon 68 keeps posting (thank you, saigon!) to be shown around the world. That's all.

[CoffeeCat]

33. What's sad is that the atrocities will only exacerbate...

...because everyone, including our soldiers, understands that this war is based on lies and corruption.

The soldiers understand full well--they are being used for a baseless, useless, unwinnable cause. This is not WWII, where we are fighting a just war against an evil enemy.

This is a neocon pet project and the soldiers understand that they are nothing but live bait in a sick PNACer war game. These guys eat lunch inside the "safety" of a tent--and we're all so surprised when 20 of them are blown up--when the military places them in these dangerous, vulnerable circumstances?

When soldiers are treated like objects, they will turn around and treat innocent civilians like objects as well. These soldiers know their lives mean nothing and that they're just tools to further the war-mongering egos of a few psychopaths.

Hand an angry soldier--who knows his life means nothing--a deadly weapon--and we get sickening atrocities and war crimes.

It's only going to get worse. Unfortunately.

[truth2power]

37. I can't do it either.

"Right now the ONLY soldiers I will support are the ones who won't go or who refuse to take part in the war crimes."

I can't do it. I can't support the troops who are taking part in these atrocities. "Following orders" is no excuse. Sorry folks.

I. can't. be. complicit. in. this.

To those DUers who have sons, daughters, relatives, in Iraq - I am sorry for the pain you are feeling. I have a son who, but for the grace of god, could be over there. Please tell me how I can "support the troops" without supporting the atrocities they are committing.

[Chipper Chat]

45. Thank you Steven Spielberg.

I always believed what the military said was gospel until I saw the film "Close Encounters." In the movie the army brass were covering up the coming arrival of the alien spacecraft at Devil's Tower by saying it was an anthrax scare.
And yesterday Rummy says we are making progress in Fallujah and that the overall picture is what's important. Eveything's just ducky - like the city suffered no damage; won't be long 'till the residents will thank us and throw flowers and candy!. Sad.

[burrowowl]

41. Rabies does not

usually appear in winter. Late spring and summer is the rabies season. Strange.

[Barkley]

27. I finally watched the "Battle of Algiers"

and the parallels between Arab/Algerian resistance to French colonization and the the Arab/ Iraqi resistace to American neo-colonization are astounding.

The French evidently learned a lesson, we sadly have not. Our people are just too DUMB!

In the movie, the every time the French attempted to douse the Arab resistance through destroying their homes (a la, Jenin and Falluja) the Arabs showed more unity and determination.

Here's a quote from the article that confirms the parallel response.

"What do they want from Falluja? This is the crime of the century. They want to destroy Islam and Muslims. But our anger and resistance will increase."

I agree with saigon68's #15 post/ photos. This is racism against the Arab people for 9-11 just as lynchings were retribution for alleged acts of violence of blacks against whites

Challenges to white supremacy cannot be tolerated.

But the key difference is that the French had been in Algiers for over
130 years and had 'cultural ties'. The motivation for them staying there was emotional as well as economic.

In the US, the motivation for remaining in Iraq is OIL. Our democracy claims of guiding these people to democracy is an obsene lie.

True democracy is incompatible with US strategic goals in Iraq and much of the Middle East; I can't imagine the Iraqi people voting themseleves 10 years of economic sanctions that killed 500,000 of their people; an invasion that cost them 100,000 people; Abu Ghraib prison abuses and now the decimation of Falluja.

and we want to bring these people democracy?

[clem_c_rock]

40. OIL = OIL, ISRAEL, LOGISTICS

And economics, a statement of US millitary might.

What is it 3 billion per month over there.

I think at this rate, after 5 years, this would be enough money to change us into a hydrogen economy w/in a decade.

Insane

[ashmanonar]

54. home-court advantage

"...and the parallels between Arab/Algerian resistance to French colonization and the the Arab/ Iraqi resistace to American neo-colonization are astounding..."
this is because history repeats itself, first as a tragedy, then as a farce...hell, we went into vietnam 10 years after the french got their asses kicked out there..(please don't hit me, i'm not a france-hater, their military forces had been waning for some time at the end of the colonialization period)...and then we go in, and get our asses kicked, and wonder what went wrong...

this is a grand strategic home-court advantage, that the vietnamese enjoyed...and the mid-easters enjoy the same advantage, for various reasons, most of them cultural and environmental...

i'm sure if a vastly superior iraqi army had invaded our country, and destroyed chicago, or philadelphia, or boston, that americans would have gone underground and formed rebel groups...so why are we so surprised that the iraqis have done the same?

welcome to the real world...people are different, and people WILL fight fiercely for their homes

[MisterP]

36. well, they're busy massacring the dogs, too

and cats of mass destruction.
Any homicide-bomber cows and goats will be executed on the spot, and Baathist sheep will be shot on sight

[IwinULose]

48. War ain't sexy, is it...? n/t

[President Kerry]

49. NO justification for it whatsoever...

there's difference between war and war crimes

[HoundDog260]

61. Sand Niggers have tender meat. Dogs like the spicy flavor.

[leftchick]

2. Crime of the century all right!

<snip>
An Iraqi Health Ministry official said his greatest concern was the resentment Falluja's people were likely to feel when they saw how much damage had been done to their homes.

That was certainly the case on Friday. While those who fled were at pains to say they had nothing to do with the rebels who made Falluja their stronghold, many of them have since become angry and militant as a result of the offensive.

"Would Allah want us to return to a city that animals can't live in?" said Yasser Satar as he saw his destroyed home.

"Even animals who have no human sense and feelings can not live here," he said, crying.

"What do they want from Falluja? This is the crime of the century. They want to destroy Islam and Muslims. But our anger and resistance will increase."



...Sadly sir, most Americans and everyone in the WH view you as animals and don't care that they have destroyed your lives. Good going chimpass* more potential resistance fighters! (Or as you prefer to call them, "terrists"!)

:(

[saigon68]

3. THE MARINES DIDN'T FIND MR. SATAN EITHER

Their Commander was looking hard for the LAD.

But alas no luck at finding this EVIL TRICKSTER.

[Paleocon]

5. U N G R A T E F U L . . .

But now they are F R E E ! ! !

Really sad...

Merry Christmas.

[saigon68]

6. "There must be some way out of here,"

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

WRITTEN BY BOB DYLAN 1968

PERFORMED BY JIMI HENDRIX 1969 and others

[rooboy]

7. Just rename it "Al Guernica" and move on, Iraqis.... n/t

[chelaque liberal]

8. United States cities with similar population to Falluja (1999)

Pittsburgh city, PA 336,882
Wichita city, KS 335,562 51
St. Louis city, MO 333,960
Cincinnati city, OH 330,914
Arlington city, TX 311,962
Santa Ana city, CA 309,290
Toledo city, OH 307,946
Anaheim city, CA 300,650
Buffalo city, NY 295,619
Tampa city, FL 290,973
Corpus Christi city, TX 281,791

The magnitude of this is just overwhelming to me. Imagine all of the people of Buffalo NY being forced to leave their homes, businesses, jobs, schools, their very lives; or risk being slaughtered. And then Buffalo was destroyed.

Real people, real lives, real dreams....

I can't describe the shame I feel for what has been done in my name.

[BeFree]

9. Why did the military do this?

What was the objective?

SH was bad, but he never destroyed a whole city.
Why did the US destroy Falluja?
BBC had a few pictures on the booby last night. Houses crumbled, businesses smashed, rubble everywhere. Nothing to return too. We have destroyed the city of Fallufja. Why? Someone made a HUGE mistake.

[Divernan]

11. To intimidate the rest of Iraq and the other Arab countries.

The fabled " incredibly, pinpoint accuracte" bombs Rumsfeld kept describing, incredibly destroyed vast areas/neighborhoods.
This is on a par with the destruction of Dresden, Germany in World War II, but at least that city was in a country which had declared war and itself destroyed urban areas (Coventry?) in the UK by aerial bombardment. I was in Dresden 2 years ago - the city has preserved some of the bombed out areas so the world would not forget the type of violent destruction.

So, it's really far worse than the bombing of Dresden, and beyond doubt qualifies as a war crime.

[saigon68]

12. Why did the military do this?

http://www.cageprisoners.com/ig_images/200412070331580.bmp

Prisoner with what appears as slop bucket accompanied by guards

[rucky]

28. I call it "Incredible Hulk" diplomacy.

Hulk no like. Hulk destroy.

[Chipper Chat]

35. can you say.........Revenge?

expect the same to occur in Mosul.

[Laughing Mirror]

29. A simple civic's lesson for the faith-based gung-ho nuke 'em crowd

Ask them to visualize America with it's Cincinnati bombed off the face of the map, it's St. Louis, Pittsburg or Wichita reduced to rubble.

Ask them to visualize America coming back home to find their own city or town decimated like Fallujah. How would they feel?

Ask them if it is not all right to do it to them, why is it all right to do it to somebody else?

America has got to grow up and get over herself and get herself aligned with the rest of the planet. It is our duty as citizens to push her in that direction, because it is our only hope of survival.

[MisterP]

38. I think I know what'd happen among the Red people:

there'd be weepy concerts, "resolve" with people standing to mawkish tunes with hot dogs clutched in their hands, they'd write letters on how "the dead demand we go get them," they'd slash rights, they'd give the bloated plutocrats massive tax breaks with the names of the killed on their lips, they'd rally to kill "a thousand times as many" and unaware of the irony, they'll send the poor and darker to be shot at and bear the brunt of resentment of those foreigners they gladly had crushed, they'll send fiends to commit monstrous acts on random citizens on their children.
And they'll howl at us for being venal and undesirable and dangerous to the country.

[saigon68]

58. Congratulations !! saigon's Post of the day

DECEMBER 26, 2004 ANNO DOMINI



Very very Insightful !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jmcgowanjm]

43. When Blowback Memorial Park is established

on the ground that the razed CIA complex
used to occupy, will be a sign that America
has grown up.

[Laughing Mirror]

47. I won't plan on dying until I get to visit Blowback Memorial Park

And instead of a huge sickening statue of John Foster Dulles and George Herbert Walker Bush making the world safe for the rich and super rich, a small life-size sculpture of Chalmers Johnson in his customary jacket and tie, socks and sandals, seated at a table, humbly writing the story of what went wrong before it went wrong, and why.

[enough]

13. kick

[jmcgowanjm]

21. The U.S. military said the programme to return residents had gone well

"You come through the door and it's who wants it most, and
it was us,"

An Iraqi Health Ministry official said his greatest concern
was
the resentment Falluja's people were likely to feel when
they
saw how much damage had been done to
their
homes.

Iraqi Resistance Report for events of Thursday, 23
December 2004
By: Muhammad Abu Nasr

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that
intermittent fighting took place for half an hour in the
Nuwwab ad-Dubbat neighborhood and in particular on 40
Street. A number of fraternal Arab volunteers were killed in
that battle. Minutes later a US column showed up to protect
an American commander who was accompanied by
press photographers. One of the wounded Resistance
fighters had been hit in his leg and was lying on his
side, apparently dead. As the American commander approached, the Resistance fighter drew what
looked like
a bayonet and planted it in the chest of the
American commander. Immediately the US troops opened
fire and killed the Resistance fighter, but only after he had
felled the US officer who lay dead in a pool of his blood
nearby. An officer in the puppet “national guard” said that
he didn’t know who the American officer had been, but said
that he had three stars on his
shoulders.

[Magleetis]

23. I am so proud

to be a great compassionate American. I want out.

[spanone]

24. Now they are free to live in a shit pile

[jmcgowanjm]

25. The al-Andalus area

Fifty Resistance fighters from Iraq and fraternal Arab
lands infiltrated into the al-Andalus neighborhood at
5pm Thursday. Resistance fighters also were able to
shoot down a US Apache helicopter over the area west of
the region between the two bridges at 5:15pm. After that,
battles erupted between US invaders and a group of more
than 80 Iraqi and fraternal Arab Resistance fighters.
These battles raged in the area of the al-Jawlan
neighborhood. Fighting persisted near the al-Khalij al-
‘Arabi School in the center of al-Jawlan. Witnesses reported
that another US Apache helicopter was shot down near
the industrial middle school at the western end of the al-
Jawlan neighborhood at
7:05pm.

the Consultative Council of Mujahideen of al-
Fallujah, spokesman Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi discussed
the fighting in the al-Jawlan
neighborhood.

He said that the Resistance had fought battles in al-
Jawlan Thursday that lasted more than three hours. In
the course of the fighting, the Resistance shot down three
US helicopters – one Cobra, one Black Hawk, and one of
an undetermined type. The first crashed near the
industrial middle school in al-Jawlan, the second over the
sheep market, and the third fell into a house in the al-
Jawlan neighborhood. Four Resistance fighters were killed
in the course of downing the US helicopters, when
another American aircraft fired a missile at them after they fired
a Strela missile at the helicopter from a
rooftop.

[katinmn]

30. Have we done a media and legislators blast of these photos yet?

I know they come from an Iraqi's blog, and are therefore "suspect," in the eyes of our crack and ever so obedient journalists.

Wish every American had to see these on the TV newz when they are sitting down for x-mas dinner.

[agincourt]

31. For the average American,

The burning issue is that we will be forced to say Happy Holidays, instead of Merry Christmas. The suffering of people in a country that does NOT even have Bin Laden is of no consequence. A nation first loses it's compassion, then it loses it's courage, then it loses it's intellect. That's where we're at.

[MSgt213]

32. Why don't they just show them the schools we rebuilt? That should make

them feel better.

[doc03]

39. So you go destroy a city of 300,000 to get 1000 insurgents, now

we have 299,000 more enemies of the US and we call them terrorists?

[lonestarnot]

46. So this is FREEDOM? This is what we went to do?

[President Kerry]

50. Mr. Bush you will pay for this. This will blow up in your face,

you will be charged with war crimes, and spend the rest of your miserable life rotting in jail. You sicken me.

Merry Xmas.

[aikido15]

57. I hope I live to see that day...

When Bush has to pay for his crimes. He should be tortured first before being jailed FOREVER. See how he likes having things shoved up his ass!

[peacebird]

60. will the world take actions against the us as they should?

we are behaving as a rogue nation with no respect for human rights, Geneva conventions, sovereignty of nations.

it would be so easy, just refuse to buy our junk bonds, refuse to bail us out, refuse to purchase goods which are viewed as "american".
We would then sink lower than the former Soviet Union.

and faster.

[UltraDem]

63. Don't worry...

that day is definitely coming. Here's keeping our fingers crossed!!!

[ObamaFan2500]

64. It makes me mad that they wrecked a city

i lived in camden NJ when i was just starting out driving the bus.. it wasn't half bad. Sure, prostitutes at night, but not the dump it became.. it reminds me of Flajau in the sense that yeah, camden wasn't a bad place to live back in 1978, but by 1980, the place was trashed. Too many people doing drugs, flopping, cops always on edge.. you always got the sense that the US under Reagan didn't care about it. Sometimes if I drive the Miami Boston route, I cut through Camden and see that my old apartment builing has been lit on fire by artisans about 20times. Pisses me off, just like Fluaja.