torture is so un-american "Further Detainee Abuse Alleged"

[cronincal]

Further Detainee Abuse Alleged
Guantanamo Prison Cited in FBI Memos

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 26, 2004; Page A01

At least 10 current and former detainees at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have lodged allegations of abuse similar to the incidents described by FBI agents in newly released documents, claims that were denied by the government but gained credibility with the reports from the agents, their attorneys say.

In public statements after their release and in documents filed with federal courts, the detainees have said they were beaten before and during interrogations, "short-shackled" to the floor and otherwise mistreated as part of the effort to get them to confess to being members of al Qaeda or the Taliban.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25962-2004Dec25.html

[VegasWolf]

1. So are fireworks on the 4th of July. n/t

[bhikkhu]

2. "so un-american"...I wish I could agree

but I have read a number of history books this year, and they beg to differ. We are no better (and not substantially worse) than any other nation of individuals. Were we not armed to the teeth and accustomed to getting our way in the world, we might be better.

[NYC]

3. The problem is "we" are not

we, the people. I don't believe that most Americans would condone torture. I think this is the decision of the ruling elite.

[bobbieinok]

8. IMO, what's horrible about this AbuG, Gitmo, etc torture mess is

that with W and Gonzales and Rumsfeld et al, this is the first time torture of prisoners has been an explicitly advocated and approved government policy

IMO, this changes the nature of the US significantly

[LynnTheDem]

4. I would say "as un-American as apple pie"...

except apple pie wasn't invented in America.

In other words, Torture R US(A)

[radar]

5. During the American Revolution

...Patriots would "tar & feather" loyalists; I reckon that counts as a form of torture.

http://revolution.h-net.msu.edu/essays/irvin.feathers.html
"John Roberts, a dissenting minister, was seized on suspicion of being an enemy to the rights of America, when he was tarred and feathered; after which, the populace, whose fury could not be appeased, erected a gibbet on which they hanged him, and afterwards made a bonfire, in which Roberts, together with the gibbet, was consumed to ashes."

"History is written by the victors;" since we win most of the time - we get to write and edit out any blemishes about how ugly/horrible the wars are prosecuted.

[Algomas]

6. The voters have spoken...

Almost 50% of them voted for four more years of this obscene torture and jihad. It was the biggest shock of my life to discover just how stupid, lazy, fearful, greedy, hateful and nasty Amerika is.
I dream of a Free Zone somewhere. Maybe some independent nation like Venezuela could be persuaded to offer sanctuary to Amerikas brightest and most creative citizens. Life in exile might not be so bad, after all it is the birthplace of Cumbia music.

[LeftCoast]

7. It is unAmerican. The people responsible (all the way up) are not

true Americans. Our country is being stolen. I think it's time to take it back.

[neweurope]

9. The thing with torture is once it is condoned it doesn't stop.

Which is why civilized nations do not allow it under any circumstances. Now it's foreign "detainees" - next it might be you.

:scared:

[Moderator]

10. locking

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