Catholic Church Launches Two Pronged Attack On Gay-Marriage

[davidinalameda]

http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/12/122704rcMarr.htm

The Catholic Church has declared war on Spain's socialist government over its plans to legalize same-sex marriage and at the Vatican the Pope issued a warning to other countries that it will not stand idle if they follow suit.

The Spanish parliament last month voted to move forward with plans to legalize gay marriage and allow same-sex couples to adopt in 2005.

The move infuriated the Church. On Sunday, Spain's bishops published a statement charging that the concept of "sexual orientation" is "erroneous."

what's going to happen--the Swiss Guard is going to invade these countries?

[catbert836]

1. Ha!

Good luck... more like people'll protest a little and then everyone will stop caring.

[Kikosexy2]

2. Throw hypocrisies ...

right back at their faces--Molestations and pedophilia!! And married "straight men" who f*#k around with other men.

[koopie57]

5. I grew up in the Catholic church

and I think you hit the nail on the head .. if no one knows about it, it is okay. That is how we were raised and I find myself doing that with my own kids, except I say "if you are too stupid and get caught, you shouldn't be doing it". But it is all the same I think. The person who fails is not wrong, but the person who brings it to light is the bad person.

If it does turn out the God is that worried about what people do in bed, in a loving relationship, as opposed to those who are liars and cheaters and murderers in His name, then how does he differ from Satan?

I guess I struggle with this more than I admit. And when I get this discombobulated (:o ) I go back to where I feel at peace, and that is when he says "the greatest of these laws is love". How can something that started out so simple, have turned into something so ugly and mean?

[stepnw1f]

17. That Was Beautifully Stated

"f it does turn out the God is that worried about what people do in bed, in a loving relationship, as opposed to those who are liars and cheaters and murderers in His name, then how does he differ from Satan?"

and

"How can something that started out so simple, have turned into something so ugly and mean?"

My favorite.

[koopie57]

62. thank you for your kind words eom

[puddycat]

70. The words and love of Jesus is STILL simple & pure. Its man that isn't

I don't blame Jesus for the failings of myself, nor of others.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Of all the things in the world for them to be concerned about...

Just willing themselves to irrelevance.

Them Opus Dei people are really not helping the church one little bit.

[InvisibleBallots]

4. what a waste - they should be trying to stop this war

and their most important issue is stopping gay marriage? Their priorities are way, way off in my opinion.

[Agnomen]

6. Spanish government is likely to say:

"Thank you for your input" and proceed with legislation.

[AllyCat]

8. Go Spain!!

At least they understand the meaning of the word "catholic"

[mother earth]

7. Sadly the Pope should've take such a strong stance when

priests were shuffling the pedophiles from church to church in the states, covering their butts left and right when they were called out on it. As a Catholic it gives me no pleasure in saying we need to clean house before we throw those stones, but the church needs to educate itself, since this is clearly a human rights issue, which they sadly do not recognize.

[InvisibleBallots]

9. you are so right

It is mind boggling. Let's say you assumed the absolute very best of the Pope and the Vatican regarding the scandals, still, at a minimum you would say they are being tone deaf right now. Instead of judgement they need to be showing some humility.

[goddess40]

10. and for not fighting this stupid war

I guess it's ok to murder people for no reason, but just don't have sex with a person of the same sex. Way to go Catholic's!

[NashVegas]

36. It's Such a Messed Up Message to Send

For both the church(es) and society in general. I'm thrilled to see we've gotten past the point where it was once proposed that the kids were somehow asking for it.

Now we're in a place of, 'it's okay for you to be a victim of a sociopathic predator as a child, but reach for something of your own volition in a situation where all are equal and you're a whore or a faggot.'

Society is trying to change that message. There's hope.

[Raster]

66. It is time that the Catholic Church and especially this pope

mind their own business, and remove the "mote from their own eye."

[IndianaGreen]

11. They are also pissed that Zapatero cut off funding to the Church

that dated back to the Franco dictatorship.

The more pissed the Vatican gets, the more enlightened we become.

How sad that all that energy the Vatican is putting against "the gay menace" was never used to protect children from pedophile priests.

[w4rma]

31. That was probably a stupid move by him.

You don't tick people with power off just because you can. If he were smart he could have bought protection from this type of attack by continuing to pay them.

Although I suppose he might have tried to talk to them and they might have said no and that might be why he quit letting the government pay them.

[IndianaGreen]

35. The Spanish Catholic Church supported Hitler and apologizes for Holocaust

They also provided fertile ground for the Fascist priest Josemaría Escrivá to found the rightwing Catholic cult Opus Dei. Is it any surprise that the same Pope that wants to canonize the controversial Pius XII put Escrivá on the fast track to sainthood?

Anything that Zapatero does to remove the Spanish Catholic Church from its perch of privilege should be met by approval from all progressives throughout the world.

[marew]

12. As I heard a comedian say...

gay marriage didn't even make it into the Top Ten, Commandments, that is! What about stealing--corporate and the government theft...taking from the poor to give breaks to the rich, etc., adultery--oh, I forgot, some of the big shots in the religious wrong don't appear to let that pesky problem bother them). Methinks some individuals need to make it a major deal because they are not quite so sure of their own sexuality.

[Charlie Brown]

13. "sexual orientation" is erroneous?

Catholics believe it's impossible for people to be attracted to each other?

[ElectroPrincess]

28. LOL That's why I believe that if significant roles were open for women

in our faith (Catholicism), we could perhaps quell the dominant men's quest for political power outside the faith, i.e., they'd be too concerned about women having too much control to get involved in govt. Yes, that would be a GOOD THING.

It's so difficult for me to find the strength to attend mass every week and on Holy Days of Obligation given the awful embarrassment the senior American leaders (Bishops) and some Priest have done to FORCE our faith on others and our secular Country's rule of law.

The main ingredient that keeps me going is the good character of our Parish Priest and the fact that we do good works for the poor, elderly and dying (hospice program).

Because of the above, I am able to not allow our Bishop's political activism chase me away. But yes, I'm ashamed and embarrassed that he would do this in our name. :(

[iconoclastic cat]

14. Uh oh! Here come the Jesuits!

The Stormtroopers of God! Run!

Well, hey, they have to do something other than go to NAMBLA meetings.

[SharonAnn]

15. They fear that if gay men can marry, they won't become priests?

I don't get the whole obsession with people's sexual activities (women's fertility and choices and people's decision to marry or not).

It's none of their business. They choose not to play the game so i won't grant them authority to make the rules!

[InvisibleBallots]

19. you probably meant that as a joke

but in fact, I think there might be some truth to that.

[VegasWolf]

16. With all going on in the world, this is what they worry about? n/t

[VegasWolf]

18. Spain telling the pope and awol to get lost. What a great country! I

saw a little apartment "condo for US" on the Med for about
200,000 euros.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[InvisibleBallots]

22. just make sure you attack all the gay Catholics, and the pro-gay Catholics

too ;)

[TankLV]

23. Like the log cabin repukes?

If they support an organization that condemns them and doesn't want anything to do with such "sinners" - that's their problem.

Go ahead - I enjoy people twisting and squirming while trying to denfend the indefensible.

I attack anyone who wishes me harm.

These sick fucks who call themselves "catholic" wish me harm - wish to strip me of my equal rights - even if the overwhelming majority of the country and world wish it. These sick fucks try to intimidate and influence the outcome of our elections.

Fuck off, all you sick fucks - we're NOT going to take it anymore!

You cry that it's your religion? Fine - worship as you wish - but don't force your perverted dogma down our throats and expect no outcry or just condemnation.

Don't like it? Stop hurting us!

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

And in case you haven't noticed - there is a stunning amount of SILENCE from all of these so called "catholic supporters of gay persons" - a stunning silence. I haven't heard ANY ONE of these supposed supporters marching into the priests and bishops and pope's offices and demanding that they stop their hatred and descrimination!

Where has this happened? NO WHERE!

[InvisibleBallots]

25. Log Cabin Republicans - smartest gays ever?

The fact that the Log Cabin Republicans exist and are openly gay and Republican tempers the anti-gay bigotry of the party, just a tiny bit now, obviously, but they are just getting started. The more out gay Republicans there are, the less bigotry will come from the GOP.

If we fight the Catholics, we lose - they have the numbers. There is a different way to do it.

[TankLV]

32. Sorry - appeasement didn't stop the Nazis - won't stop other bigots.

The goddamn catholic churh's most charitable description of me is a "siner" - I'm not a sinner - only in their bigoted minds!

Yeah - a tolerant bunch.

I don't care if they are the entire population - I will not give in to bigotry and hatred no matter how it is disguized.

We will not go quietly into the boxcars this time around, you can bet YOUR life on it!

[ElectroPrincess]

29. Please see my post (#28)

I won't argue with you. However, I love the Catholic faith. Therefore, I cannot give up hope that we can reform. Yes, I'm ashamed of many of our leaders. But they are HUMAN, and do NOT represent the true essence of our faith.

My point: Please do not link the faith with the HUMAN (fallible) present leaders.

[TankLV]

33. Then make a stink - demand a change in YOUR "leaders".

If you don't - you are giving them the support of SILENCE and condemning us to an early grave.

If you are not part of the solution - you are part of the problem.

And unless you are out there chastizing your leadership at every turn, you ARE part of the problem.

Being silent doesn't cut it anymore.

[iamjoy]

34. You Guys Are Both Right

TankLV and ElectroPrincess

During the Holocaust, the Catholic Church (by their silence) endorsed the genocide in Nazi Germany. In the case of the Jews, the Church used scripture to justify it. That said, there were a number of small parish priests who stood against it, and risked their lives to defy it.

So, if the Catholic Church could change its mind about Jews and decide we aren't so bad (although you wouldn't know it to talk to Mel Gibson) there is hope that one day they will admit Homosexuals aren't so bad either. But Catholics must speak out. Eventually the Church will accept the science of gender orientation.

I mean, hey, they changed their mind about this whole geo-centric concept...

[DemBones DemBones]

40. There were a lot of Catholics who helped the Jews in

Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Jews of the time gave great credit to Pope Pius XII for all he did to help. The claims that he "did nothing" all came years later, years after he and many of the people who were there at the time were dead. When Pius died in 1958, Jews all over the world, from Golda Meir to Leonard Bernstein, paid tribute to what he did for the Jews in WW II.

But if you're still worrying about Galileo, I doubt you're listening. The facts are that the Church long ago accepted Galileo's findings; some did even at the time. Pope John Paul II made an official statement of apology, inspiring dozens of ill-informed posts here saying "A few years ago,Catholics finally figured out Galileo was right." In fact, Catholics have known Galileo was right, and known Darwin was right, for centuries.

[iamjoy]

50. But, See That's The Problem

For almost 2 thousand years official Catholic's largely accepted that Jews killed Jesus, used to justify heinous acts. It wasn't until the early 1960's that the belief officially changed.

Now whether this means the Catholics had decided long ago the Jews weren't to blame and just waited to make this announcement or whether they really taught the Jews were responsible until 40 some years ago, the result is the same.

I don't believe Catholics really believed in the geo-centric universe until this century, but they did persecute the first people to dispute that theory, even though there was solid evidence that the religious beliefs were not true.

But it is not just Catholics, it is many religions that seem to want to ignore any science that contradicts their dogma or faith (at least at first) and only come around many years later. People of many religions dispute natural selection, and even want to teach "intelligent design" (a savvier sounding Creationism) in public schools.

So, how can we help them realize that homosexuality is not the choice they believe it is based on their faith? How can we get them to see that condemning any kind of civil rights for homosexuals is the same sort of rigid thinking that led to the persecution of so many people hundreds of years ago? Note I said the same *kind* of thinking, I am not by any means saying denying two men the right to marry is the equivalent to burning people at the stake for heresy.

[IndianaGreen]

65. Pius XII was indifferent and silent during the Holocaust

At the time the Vatican needed to speak loudly, it chose silence. Compare Pius XII's silence to his efforts to give Vatican passports to Nazi war criminals trying to escape the Allies in the aftermath of Germany's defeat.

Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust

The Pope's indifference to the mistreatment of Jews was often clear. In 1941, for example, after being asked by French Marshal Henri Philippe Petain if the Vatican would object to anti-Jewish laws, Pius XII answered that the church condemned racism, but did not repudiate every rule against the Jews.(16) When Petain's French puppet government introduced "Jewish statutes," the Vichy ambassador to the Holy See informed Petain that the Vatican did not consider the legislation in conflict with Catholic teachings, as long as they were carried out with "charity" and "justice."(17)

In a September 1940 broadcast, the Vatican called its policy "neutrality," but stated in the same broadcast that where morality was involved, no neutrality was possible.(18) This could only imply that mass murder was not a moral issue.

NOTES

16. Gutman, Israel, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, p. 1137.

17. Perl, William, The Holocaust Conspiracy, p. 200.

18. Perl, William, The Holocaust Conspiracy, p. 200.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

[ElectroPrincess]

37. It's easy for you to *preach* from the outside looking in ...

truth is that I cherish my volunteer work that benefits those people who need love and support MORE than standing up as a woman with NO POWER.

Part of LOVING your neighbor as part of the parish is knowing when to "hold um" against those who preach dogmatism ...for the greater benefit of the "beautiful and charitable programs" that are a part of my church. Why? Because nobody will stand next to me ... I value my other efforts within the parish far too much to be ostracized.

Time for you to "buy a clue" and refrain from talking in absolutes.

And NO, I'm not part of the problem because, although I refrain from "announcing it" - I personally promote the separation of Church and State in everything I do in behavior (my life) as a member of my Parish.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. Opposing same sex marriage is not equivalent to

condoning mistreatment of homosexual people. The Catholic Church has stated very clearly that people are not to be hated for their attraction to people of the same sex and that such attraction is not a sin. The Church is not planning to herd you into boxcars, any move like that would not come from Catholics.

You want the Church to say it's OK for you to do anything you want but that's not going to happen. The Catholic Church is one of the few upholding traditional Christian teachings about marriage, divorce, sexuality, abortion, and more. It's not going to suddenly say that gays *or* straights can do whatever they want sexually with the blessings of the Church.

Will the Roman Catholic Church ever approve same sex marriage? Maybe, but don't look for it anytime soon. It's a big step to have the Church say that being homosexual is not in itself a sin.

By comparison, the mainstream Protestant churches have taught until recently that homosexuality is a sin, while approving birth control, women clergy, and abortion. I don't think they're all allowing same sex marriages, either. Last I heard, the United Methodist Church isn't.

[SnowBack]

45. I just want the catholic church to stop

working AGAINST my rights... I don't give a damn what they think of my life... But when they start trying to convince Governments to govern based on THEIR hateful beliefs, it's time to TAX them...

They aren't a church, they're a political party...

[mitchum]

54. They're a voodoo political action committee

[merh]

51. The Catholic Church can take the stance that it will not bless

gay marriages, that is within their province and perfectly acceptable. But the Catholic Church should not become entangled in a nation's politics. States allow people that are divorced numerous times to remarry. The Catholic Church does not condone divorce and if you are married in the Church and divorce and do not get the marriage annulled, you cannot remarry in the church, you cannot have your marriage blessed.

There is a distinction and the Catholic Church ought to recognize the distinction and pay attention to its own problems.

[MountainLaurel]

64. In a related issue

The Vatican needs to move out of the UN.

[mitchum]

21. Not the first time the mendacious Catholic Church has declared war...

against a socialist Spanish government.

How can anyone defend those duplicitous medievalists?

[kitkatrose]

24. Sigh...

:eyes: Doesn't the church have something better to do with its time and effort? Like trying to help people instead of hurt them?

[DemBones DemBones]

44. The Catholic Church does a lot to help people, but

you know what? Every single time it's reported at DU that the Catholic Church has done something good, the thread fills up immediately with posts complaining about everything certain DUers don't like about Catholicism.

Funny how we never get posts critical of Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, or Jews, just of Christians, Catholic and otherwise.

[SnowBack]

46. The Catholic Church does alot to work AGAINST Gay people...

Maybe that's why we complain...

When Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews or other Christians fight against my rights, I fight just as hard...

[kitkatrose]

60. We get enough posts critical of other religions;

As Christianity is predominant in America, that's where most are gonna pile on. And frankly if they were more vocal about the good stuff they were doing as opposed to bad stuff, maybe people would shut up about it.

When or if India flares up again, I'm sure there will be condemnations of Hindus and the other side (I forget who). I'm not particularly aware of Buddhists being particularly aggressive. And we've had shitloads of nasty threads on Islam. Go into I/P for the nasty ones about Jews and Palestinians.

And really, I try to stay away from the religion threads, but this seemed so stupid in light of the massive earthquake and tsunamis on Sunday that I felt compelled to respond.

[Bouncy Ball]

26. I don't understand something

It's the Spanish GOVERNMENT. This is not some Catholic church in Spain that has gone all rogue and decided to start marrying gay couples, right? It's the Spanish GOVERNMENT. What exactly can the Catholic church do to the Spanish government? Would they bomb Madrid or something? Refuse to........what?

Good for Spain, I say.

[NashVegas]

38. I Think They're Trying to Find That Out

Historically, Rome lost its lock on political power when Henry VIII ditched 'em and things have never quite been the same since. In the past two years they seem to have been attempting to see what happens if they try to again flex that muscle.

[NYC Liberal]

27. Yeah, just like Jesus said

in...erm...um...what book of the Bible was that? I know he said something, somewhere!

So what will they do? Excommunicate everyone in Spain?

[w4rma]

30. And they sit nearly idle and watch people kill one another so that would

be kings can have a chance to rise to power over the survivors.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. What's the Dalai Lama done to actually stop the war?

Or the Archbishop of Canterbury? They both speak for peace, as does Pope John Paul II, but none of them have the power to stop wars.

What are the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarians, the Quakers, doing to stop war? Some speak out, some don't. Speaking out is better than doing nothing but religious leaders can't stop political leaders from their misguided paths.

The head of the Methodist Church in the US told Bush** -- who is a Methodist -- not to go to war against Iraq. The Archbishop of Canterbury -- and Bush** was raised an Episcopalian, essentially an Anglican -- told him not to invade Iraq. Pope John Paul II told him not to invade Iraq, that he would "go without God" if he did.

Maybe Bush** would have listened to Billy Graham. Go get on Billy Graham's case for supporting this evil war.

[InvisibleBallots]

63. the Dalai Lama is an anti-gay bigot

The Dalai Lama is the leader of the Tibetan people and is revered by millions of Buddhists worldwide. At a press conference in 1997-JUN, he commented: "From a Buddhist point of view ...is generally considered sexual misconduct". This belief is not based on the partners being of the same gender. In his book "Beyond Dogma," he has written that "homosexuality, whether it is between men or between women, is not improper in itself. What is improper is the use of organs already defined as inappropriate for sexual contact." Buddhism prohibits oral, manual and anal sex for everyone - both homosexuals and heterosexuals. However, these restrictions refer only to members of the Buddhist faith. 4 From "society's viewpoint," same-sex relations can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable and harmless." He supports human rights "regardless of sexual orientation." At a subsequent meeting with gay and lesbian representatives, he expressed the "willingness to consider the possibility that some of the teachings may be specific to a particular cultural and historic context." Dawa Tsering, spokesperson for the Office of Tibet commented: "His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges respect, tolerance, compassion and the full recognition of human rights for all." 5

An article in Newsweek states that "Although he has affirmed the dignity and rights of gays and lesbians, he has condemned homosexual acts as contrary to Buddhist ethics."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_budd.htm

[Raster]

67. I have never heard nor read of the Lord Buddha condeming gays...

There are many schools, sects and subsects of Buddhism. As with Christianity, no consensus exists within Buddhism about gay and lesbian relationships. Buddhism is most concerned with whether an action is helpful and based on good intentions. This differs from Christianity which often evaluates an action, based on whether it is good or evil; positive or sinful.

Apparently, the Buddha did not leave any teachings on homosexual orientation or homosexual behavior. He strongly encouraged his followers to "be a lamp until yourself" -- to examine and test the truth of religious teachings before accepting them.

Many women, gays and lesbians have been attracted to Buddhism because of its relative lack of misogyny and homophobia, when compared to most monotheistic religions. But others report "virulently anti-gay sentiments and teachings from religious teachers in Tibetan and other Buddhist" schools.

Theravada Buddhism:
This is one of the largest divisions of Buddhism. It is also known as the "Southern" School. Using information drawn from a presentation on legalizing same-sex marriages in Hawai'i, we find:

The Buddha formulated 5 precepts of Right Conduct
One of these is: "I undertake to observe the precept to abstain from sexual misconduct"
The Buddha did not specifically define the term "sexual misconduct."
However, he did stress the importance of "above all, do no harm to others or to oneself"
Some Buddhists conclude that sexual misconduct would include adultery, child molestation, incest, rape, sexual abuse in any form, and sexual harassment. Further, consensual sexual activity by a committed couple is not misconduct (whether engaged in by a heterosexual or homosexual couple).

From the Theravada Buddhist standpoint, all relationships: gay, lesbian or straight, are often considered personal matters of mutual consent. If a relationship promotes the happiness and well-being of both parties, then it is positive and acceptable. Many Buddhists believe that sexual orientation is beyond a person's control, as are race and gender. They feel that gays and lesbians should have the same civil rights and benefits as do all other persons.

Kerry Trembath wrote that Buddhists base ethical decisions on the consequences of one's actions, how we would feel if the action was done to us, and whether the action is helpful to our goal of Nirvana. He commented that Buddhist leaders have generally interpreted coercive sex, sexual harassment, child molestation and adultery to be sexual misconduct. But heterosexual or homosexual consensual sex within a relationship is acceptable.

[leesa]

41. At a time when the Catholic Church could be doing so much good

by battling the GOP christian Fundies, they cling to this nonsense!

[DemBones DemBones]

43. The Catholic Church is always doing a lot of good.

And the Church doesn't cling to anything it considers nonsense. That some consider its teachings "nonsense" doesn't make it so.

[SnowBack]

47. Alot of good like abusing boys and fighting Gays?

Yeah, the Catholic church is ANGELIC all right...

:eyes:

[DemBones DemBones]

52. No, a lot of good like helping the poor,

the hungry, the sick, those in prison -- the people Jesus said to help. Incidentally, many of those helped by the Catholic Church are gay, AIDS patients in particular.

You should educate yourself a little more, instead of just repeating things you hear.

[SnowBack]

59. Gay men had to set up their own agencies to deal with AIDS...

And I'm plenty educated on the Catholic church and sexual abuse, as well as their lack of assistance with People With AIDS...

How much do you know about the Gay community? You should probably educate YOURSELF a little more, instead of parroting pro-Catholic talking points...

[leesa]

61. Denying someone civil rights is NOT good. Jesus would NOT

approve. Why are they wasting time on this NONSENSE when they could be railing against the slaughter of Iraqis by Bush and his RW anti-Christians?

[sonicx]

48. 2/3s of Spain approves of gay marriage

Too Late!! :evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

[SemperEadem]

49. Where's Phillip Hapsburg when you need him?

too bad King Phillip II is 490+ years dead.. he'd send Torquemada and the Inquisition out to torture and burn the heretics.

"Did someone say the Spanish Inquisition?"
(couldn't resist some Python humor)

Exactly what is the pope going to do? Excommunicate them? Ooooh!!!!

So, let me get this right: Gay marriage=baaaad; pedophile priests=alright as long as no one tells on the priest and embarasses the church.

He's been drinking too much communion wine.

[robbedvoter]

53. Wait, I'm confused. Christians are under attack, meek and on defense

non? Liberal bigots are trying to take Christmas away from them and threatens their marriage with gay temptations. How can they even attack when poor babies are under attack?

[FDRrocks]

56. Moral Relativism: The Most Disgusting Shit

Maybe I could read the Bible and rationalize how the bible promotes drinking every night.

These people do not conform to the bible, they conform the bible to them. It is as it has always been.

[FDRrocks]

55. Catholic Church Launches Two Pronged Attack On Equality n/t

[lpricanprynces]

57. Documented Abusers rome free to this very day!

The Dallas Morning News newspaper has been doing an expose on how the catholic church is still employing known pedophiles. They have an awesome website up documenting all of their information. You have to register (it's free), but it is the motherload of information.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/spe/2004/runawaypriests/

[c1dem]

58. Gay rights no big deal in Europe and Canada

Most people don't realize that 13 countries in Europe have gay rights laws and it's no big deal. Why do we have our undies in a bunch about it? There have been gays in society since the beginning of time. All they want is their right to protect themselves. Whoopie.

[Catfight]

68. Even God doesn't want the pope, he keeps on living. n/t

[cleofus1]

69. Fucking religious fanatics

And they wonder why I hate them so,,,,