U.S. Relief Package to More Than Double

[wicket]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20041228/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_quake

The U.S. Agency for International Development prepared Tuesday to add $20 million to an initial $15 million contribution for Asian earthquake relief as Secretary of State Colin Powell bristled at a United Nations official's suggestion that the United States has been "stingy."

A senior U.S. official told The Associated Press the increased aid figure was bound to be pushed even higher as assessments of the damage from the biggest earthquake in 40 years are received.

The Pentagon is preparing a supplemental relief operation and pre-stocked supplies of shelter, food and water bags are on their way to Indonesia from Dubai, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Powell, irritated by the U.N. official's criticism, toured morning television talk shows to say the Bush administration will follow up its contributions with large additional sums.

[xultar]

1. large additional sums---of bullshit....I hate the BFFE

:hurts:

[Turley]

4. You may call it bullshit

but I suspect the recipients will see it differently.

You know there is a time to put away your hatred for Shrub. Despite the fact that he is a hopeless doofus, the U.S. government will be giving substantial aid to the countries effected. The supplies we are sending are in critical demand.

Disaster relief teams, medical supplies, blankets, tents, clothing, food, these aren't bullshit. They're life-savers. You may want to consider that there are a whole hell of a lot of dedicated professionals in government employ who work on disaster relief who have nothing to do with Shrub or his politics.

You need to think twice before you so callously label our efforts as bullshit.

[Tempest]

6. Bush welches on his promises

He pledged $15 billion to fight AIDS in Africa, but only released $3 billion.

He'll welch on this one as well.


And as far as the disaster relief teams and etc. you mentioned, the vast majority are from PRIVATE sources, not government sources.

[gratuitous]

7. You're right, any assistance will be deeply appreciated

But the Bush administration has a track record, and based on the gap between their words and their actions, it's not outside the realm of strong possibility that the words being spoken this week by the administration won't translate into any meaningful action. Talk, as we all know, is notoriously cheap, and so it's one commodity the Bush administration dispenses freely.

But just to put a little perspective into the administration "pledge" of $15 million, Lil George is spending between $30 and $40 million on his second inaugural, not including the security tab, which will be substantial. That is quite inidicative of this administration's priorities, and leads me to call their recent comments just so much bullshit.

[xultar]

10. That's what I'm talking about. n/t

[Turley]

12. I believe we are in line with the rest of the World

First response donations from us are similar in size or larger than those from other Western countries.

I'll also note that supplies are already either in the air or hitting the ground. I'm not sure why you choose to doubt this reality.

Sorry if I sound snippity but I have been in this line of work and I know people who are doing it now. As I've said there are myriad people in Gov't employ who don't support Shrub politically, but who still do an outstanding job. Their efforts are going to save lives in Asia (and other places) regardless of who resides in the White House.

I'm not going to sit around and listen to some ignorant nincompoop deride their efforts as bullshit just because Shrub is President.

[gratuitous]

63. We may be "in line with" the rest of the world

But I always thought that the one who has the most to give ought to be first in line with the biggest donation. What would it say to the rest of the world if we said that for the next three weeks (put a time limit on it, so that our enemies know they don't have a clear field) we sending every nonessential sailor, soldier, marine and aviator into the area to help coordinate and distribute aid efforts? We could then call on everyone else to assist in this terrible human tragedy, and make stark whatever differences we claim exist between our country and the "terrorists" we're so ardently fighting against.

Also, I'm not sure why you insist on blurring the lines between career government workers who disagree with the corrupt administration currently installed and the corrupt administration. It's pretty clear to me from reading the comments on this thread that folks at DU are skeptical of what the administration is claiming it's going to do, and haven't said anything to besmirch the reputation of dedicated workers in the government. The Bushistas have earned their reputation for being all talk and very little action over and over.

[SoCalDem]

60. He "announces" generosity on camera, in a LOUD voice

but since these things usually require congressional approval to actually wrest the money free of their grubby mitts, he knows he can always coount on the house to quietly quash any generous bill he has ballyhooed all over the media, and since it's a quiet smothering, probably done at 3AM by some office toady, no one's the wiser..

It's like the blowhard who calls into a pledge drive and pledges a MILLION dollars.. Until the "check clears the bank", he has donated NOTHING...

*² has all his minions out on tv today broadcasting how generous we are, and the propagandamedia will continue the spin, so even if we "fall short", people will THINK we gave the money promised.. If any country dares to protest that they did not get what they thought they were promised, they will be played out on TV as greedy whiny liberal politicians, and we will start seeing more and more about the "oil for food" scandal...and will be told that tsunami relief "may" be just like that.. No need to prove anything, just stir the stew:(

[wovenpaint]

79. AND...I read that $20 million pledged is a "LINE of CREDIT"?!?

These people have been devastated, and our a@@hole administration offers a charge account????
Another reason why * is the worst pResident EVER!

[xultar]

9. I think we need do do more. I wanna see us DO MORE! n/t

[underthedome]

17. Great, get out there and volunteer

You could be using the time you spend posting on this site to help out with the relief effort in same fashion.

[LynnTheDem]

28. Like you?

Hmmmm?

[Forkboy]

56. A lot of new posters seem upset that we're upset

[LynnTheDem]

65. I noticed that.

Things that make you say HMMMmmmmmmm...

:D

[realvirginian]

33. Send your check to

The International Red Cross

[oneighty]

62. Can they be trusted?

180

[drscm]

35. Thankfully we are committing $200B to an immoral war in Iraq.

[ilovenicepeople]

40. Speaking of callous labeling,

How can the USA provide any help to others when your country is totally bankrupt,morally bankrupt and in bed with SATAN.

FOR THE RECORD:America has lots of honest,caring,compassionate people,it's just that they haven't taken their country back from the Evil people that are running(ruining)it.GOOD LUCK

[Turley]

53. I see you guys kicked in $800,000

Quite impressive.

As for financial bankruptcy I think you better take a closer look at your own debt-to-GDP. I'm sure Dubya will help us catch you but the fact is, you have a big head start.

[LynnTheDem]

67. CANADA???

Debt-to-GDP???

LOL!!!

[daleo]

74. For the record, from the Economist, mid 2004 figures.

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003

Canada
Public debt (% of GDP) 83.30 83.20 80.40 77.00

U.S.
Public debt (% of GDP) 57.98 57.47 59.75 62.43

The U.S. was still doing better in 2003, but the trend was not good. I wouldn't be surprised if this has converged by now, given the fact that Canada has been running surpluses and the U.S. has been running deficits in the last few years.

[Turley]

75. We have a long way to go

if we want to catch Canada. Even Bush's insanity has only pushed that number up a couple of percentage points and Canada is still 15% ahead of us. They're still paying for the massive deficit spending from a couple of decades ago.

[daleo]

81. A straight line extrapolation would indicate that they converge soon.

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003

Canada
Public debt (% of GDP) 83.30 83.20 80.40 77.00

U.S.
Public debt (% of GDP) 57.98 57.47 59.75 62.43

In three more years, Canada would be at about 68%, while U.S. would be at about 71%. This would be about the year 2006.

[LynnTheDem]

77. Economist; Canada debt-GDP ratio is 40%, December 2004

As economic growth returned, the government began cutting taxes and repaying public debt (which now stands at 40% of GDP) while restoring some of the cuts.



http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_ID=2087767

In 2000, Canada's GDP ration was 61%

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/budget/canada/2003/stories/timeline.html

In 2001, Canada's GDP ratio was 50%.

http://canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/economy/public_debt.html

2001: Debt/GDP ratio: 51.8%

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/budget/canada/2003/stories/timeline.html

2002-2003; 47%

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/financial_docs/msood/2002/intro_e.asp

-Canada was the only G-7 country to record a surplus in 2002 and 2003.

-According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), Canada is projected to be the only G-7 country to record a surplus in both 2004 and 2005.

-Canada had the largest improvement in its budgetary situation among the G-7 countries since 1992, including the sharpest decline in the debt burden.

Canada’s total government sector debt burden declined to an estimated 35 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2003 and, according to the OECD, it is expected to be the lowest in the G-7 in 2004.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget04/bp/bpa3e.htm

[daleo]

80. That is a big difference, 77% vs 40% in one year

Especially given that the numbers are both from The Economist (I didn't bother with a link, but a google search will confirm that my numbers were from their site). It is possible that the 77% is all public debt (federal, provincial, and municipal) vs the 40% which may be federal. In any case, it seems indisputable to me that Canada's public accounts have been managed much better than the U.S., since the Bush administration came into power. The path Bush has put the U.S. on will be very hard to correct, as well.

[Skittles]

73. PUT AWAY MY HATRED FOR BUSH???

NOT IN MY FREAKING LIFETIME:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1456767

[displacedtexan]

2. Just as soon as we actually pony up the $15 million AIDS $ to Africa...

we'll see about actually sending aid to these new victims.

I'm not holding my breath, y'all!

I honestly believe that we'll include the American Red Cross' donations (and those to other relief groups) in our BushCo relief total.

[truthseeker1]

3. Wasn't it $15 BILLION that was pledged for aids relief in Africa?

not $15 million?

[Tempest]

5. $15 billion pledged, $3 billion actually sent

Bush is sure to welch on this promise too.

[shady lane]

13. it was 15 billion over 10 years

The pledge was 15 billion over 10 years, subject to available programs that could fairly distribute the money without it disappearing into the policians pockets there.

[LynnTheDem]

14. No; it was $15 billion over 5 years

You're only trying to defend the bushCartel, but please, FACTS are important.

In his 2002 State of the Union address, bush promised to spend $15 billion over the next five years ($3 billion per year) to combat the spread of AIDS around the world.

After proposing only $2.1 billion for this initiative in his Fiscal Year 2004 budget, bush again fell short this year, including only $2.8 billion for the battle against AIDS in Fiscal Year 2005.

He also cut the Global Fund to Fight HIV/AIDS, Malaria and Tuberculosis by nearly two-thirds.

And he just last week announced he would be cutting global economic aid.

[ZR2]

15. Since you want to cite facts,

Did he state 15 billion over 5 years, or did he state 3 billion per year ?

[LynnTheDem]

18. You don't like facts?

"Since you want to cite facts" is rather snippy, as if "wanting" to "cite facts" is a dirty thing to do, lol!

:D

In May Bush signed into law an act—officially titled the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria Act of 2003—that authorized $15 billion to fight AIDS over five years, $3 billion per year.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0311&article=031141d

[ZR2]

30. No it's not snippy..sorry if you took it that way

But you claim that Shrub isn't living up to his promise to fund AIDS research. I am trying to figure out what was actually promised. Was it 3 billion per year, or was it 15 billion over 5 years.

[LynnTheDem]

32. bush signed into law $3 billion/ year for 5 years.

$15 billion over FIVE years, $3 billion per year authorized.

Check the link I previously provided, or do a search on the bill named in my post.

And have a nice day. :)

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

34. $15 billion over FIVE years, NOT over the 10 years as you posted.

And that's a FACT. :)

[Forkboy]

54. I like facts too

and your posting history is a fact.

Cya.

[Inland]

8. $35M total--only five short of the cost of the Bush inaugural parties!

I am astonished on how little money we can be shamed into giving.

Instead of getting applause from a quick and open initial pledge, the reticence overshadows the total.

Who is in charge of this house of dunces? Hallooo? Anybody home?

[readmylips]

11. Last night I heard some guy saying....

that the US will raise the aid to the Tsunami victims but the administration was working on tying in the devastation to the war on terror in order to finally gain world support for the war. Make the US (bush) look like the good guy again. Same play as the 911 charade.

I'm already sick and the words of that man on TV made me feel worse.

[Divernan]

16. Absolutely-Bush will demand political quid pro quo for aid

Things like troops commited to Iraq or future US invasions of other countries; promises to accept Halliburton as contractor for reconstruction efforts (with compensation to be set by US and deducted from US aid; promises to back US on critical votes in UN. The Bush teams' first and only reaction to disasters at home or abroad, is how can we use this to benefit our political power and/or our corporate supporters.

[RollergirlVT]

19. In Florida earlier this year.....

all the world was shocked and amazed to hear that the state was hit by several hurricanes, didn't "*shit" send a $billion in emergency aid??? Oh, now I remember that was before the election.

[Dover]

20. Bushco will probably use the disaster for leverage of some kind....

We'll help IF....blah, blah, blah.

[Dover]

21. How much are the American corporations who make huge profit from

Eurasian cheap labor willing to anti up for these countries?

[durablend]

25. Depends on how many factories are destroyed...

A lot = beaucoup bucks

Few or none = "Tough $hit for them, ain't it"

[WithStamina]

22. We're not stingy

The EU is giving a fraction of what we are. Look, we're not exactly enjoying a huge surplus right now. The $15 million doesn't even include all the private agencies that are in existance because of American generosity. The UN can shove it. Maybe they should dig up a little Oil for Food money to help out...

[LynnTheDem]

26. Yes we are stingy.

And just WHY are we not exactly enjoying a huge surplus anymore???

And you seem to have swallowed the rightwingnut Koolaide about the UN oil for food "scandal". How sad.

[WithStamina]

48. Because Bush is foolish

I'm not going to argue that. His tax cuts were at the wrong time, they were too big, and they were targeted at the wrong people.

Oil for food was a huge problem; just becuase it discredits the UN doesn't mean that we should overlook it. The UN is a good idea, but I think it's fallen too far to be useful.

[LynnTheDem]

66. What "Un oil for food scandal"?

Only AHMED CHALABI has any "proof" that there ever was such a thing, and he refuses to show his "proof" to anyone.

Or didn't you know this?

[tabasco]

27. Wow! And to think what things were like five short years ago!

Things sure have gone to shit, haven't they?

Surplus gone.
International reputation gone.
Thousands of lives gone.

But I hope you enjoyed your tax break...

idiots.

[WithStamina]

49. I don't have a job

Thanks, though... no tax break here. I only wish. :p

[tabasco]

58. I recommend military service ....

that's what I did for 12 years. Still in the reserves.

Just ask the recruiter for 11-Bravo.

[LanternWaste]

29. Hmmm...

When aid sent by the U.S. govt. equals or exceeds the amount spent on the one day inaugural ceremony (just a ceremony- just a frikkin' damned party) then and only then will I allow the BFEE a reasonable doubt in their miserly accounting of what monies should be slated to this tragedy.

[BoogyMan]

36. Inaugural Monies

Did you make the same kind of noise when Bill Clinton spent over 30 Million for his '97 inauguration?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

39. Yeah, same time we had a trillion dollar surplus.

But credit card republicans don't care about paying bills or balancing budgets. Even mired down with a massive deficit, they insist on lavish spending. Borrow and spend republicans are destroying our economy.

Thanks for bringing back memories of happier times.

[sandnsea]

45. In fact, people were very upset

I remember stories and protests about the homeless in D.C. while the mukity muks were partying it up just blocks away. Just like I remember protests over Kosovo.

[realvirginian]

37. You got that right

The USA gives more than any other country. We always have and we always will.

[LanternWaste]

47. Easiest way to exert influence and control...

Usually the best and most effective way to exert influence on the international scene. I hope you don't harbor some naieve belief that these monies were handed out due to the magnanimous or generous nature of Americans...

[Rose Siding]

71. Wrong! Not as a % of our GNP or per capita

As I posted further down the thread, we rank 22nd:

Anyone who boasts of generosity with a record like that is STINGY, SMUG, and CRUEL, not to mention recklessly unmindful of nat'l security!

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Dig into the facts- they don't always support the feel-good swill that our "leaders" spout.

[PST]

41. for your information

those 4mn they are talking about in the media comes out of the EU's ( the institution seated in Brussels) annual budget of around 100bn euro, which is about 1% of the total budget of all the member states put together. if you really want to compare figures then add the donations from the individual member states of the EU. I don't know the current total, and I agree we need a lot more but let's get our facts straight.

[WithStamina]

50. Well...

The figure for the US doesn't include private charities. That comes straight from American pocketbooks too.

[PST]

51. neither does the european figure

so far it's just been government money.

[Rose Siding]

70. We rate TWENTY-SECOND in aid contributions as a % of our GNP

Anyone who boasts of generosity with a record like that is STINGY, SMUG, and CRUEL, not to mention recklessly unmindful of nat'l security!

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

[mulethree]

23. I wonder how much is for Diego Garcia? n/t

[WithStamina]

61. From my experiences in Europe...

there is far less as far as organized charities go. Perhaps that's changed since, but the idea from when I lived in Italy was help your friends, neighbors, and family, but there were no realy organized charities.

[PaulaFarrell]

78. untrue in England

people are ALWAYS collecting for charities, it's unending.

[Zech Marquis]

24. $20 million?!

How about telling Ruummy he can't have so many damn F/A-22 Raptors at 220 million a pop, and perhaps there'll be some REAL money to use in ana ctual emergency...

oh never mind :eyes:

[Forkboy]

42. Damn,these threads are really bringing them out of the woodwork

[wicket]

43. I was just thinking the same thing!

n/t

[sandnsea]

46. Guilty consciences

That's what I think.

[Bridget Burke]

55. Like turning on the kitchen light....

Watch them scuttle.

[Forkboy]

57. Every tsunami thread today has them all over

desperate to defend Bush.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

59. You're right-they're really steenking up the place today!

[LynnTheDem]

68. Yep

Just thinking that myself.

[m0nkeyneck]

44. donate

http://www.ktvu.com/news/4025132/detail.html

[Rex]

64. Did NYC ever get the money promised by the BFEE?

I mean the TOTAL amount. Hollow promises IMHO, but I do hope they help - every penny has the potential to save a life.

[LibDemAlways]

69. Chimp will send as little as possible.

No profit to be had in assisting disaster victims. A real President would have already reported directly to the American people on the scope of the tragedy as well as US government response. He's blowing a unique opportunity to show the world that America can still be a compassionate and caring nation.

[pacifictiger]

72. When I first heard the sum of $15million

I was astounded. And how much does a 'smart' bomb cost?

To relate to how stingy that offer of assistance was, consider this:
Australia's immediate assistance offer was $10 million, which correlates to about 50c per Aussie citizen.
The US offer correlates to .05c per US citizen. Disgusting.

[ObamaFan2500]

76. They should give more than one package for one thing!

I hate reading about this package.. they are right, the US is greddy. I don't care ahow much the package is worth, but only the people in teh vicinity are gonna get the bandages, the clothes, the food, the medicine, the staples, the food, the supplies, the snacks, etc, that they are sending.. Instead of one big package, why not 100 smaller ones through out malaysia, philippines, maldives and Japan along the coast of kenya even .