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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 10:49 AM
Original message
Proceeds of £40m bank theft could pay IRA 'pensions'
Edited on Wed Dec-29-04 11:26 AM by emad
The Times
By David Lister
Security sources in Northern Ireland say that the money may be used to cover the price of peace



THE IRA may be planning a retirement fund・for its volunteers using the proceeds of Britain's biggest ever bank robbery, security sources believe.

Detectives in Northern Ireland suspect that the terrorist group, which has been linked by communication intercepts to last week's daring raid in Central Belfast, intends to use at least part of the money as a Pension fund・for its activists. .................

Were this amount to be shared between the several thousand serving and former IRA members, they could be in line for up to tens of thousands of pounds each.

This would be the possible price・for the terrorist group finally agreeing to disappear in return for Sinn Fein joining a power-sharing administration with Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1418229,00.html

After the collapse of Enron and Equitable Life (pensions fund/insurer in the UK), no doubt the IRA is looking for a little nest egg for the future....
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah ... more than likely
It's also a hint to the British Govt to lean that foul old shitehawk Paisley and get him to sign up to the deal.

The thinking being - look Tony, we can still deporive banks of tens of millions of will. Chances are we could lob 50 pounds of semtex on Number Ten again like we did in 1994 if we so decided. Not that we want to, we want to give up our guns - why don't you get Paisley on baord and all the nastinbess will be forgotten.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Things have progressed somewhat in December 2004 with the
dumping of the UK's chief IRA and Unionist terrorists' apologist David Blunkett - over that messy biz of the pregnant slapper Kimberley Fortier.

It has provided an easy jump up the ladder for their latest acquisition, Opus Dei matriarch Ruth Kelley, recently isntalled as Education Secretary.

Kelley, 36, is yet another Reagan/Bush1 plant and has been groomed by Labour to eventually provide electable material to replace Poodle at No 10.
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Ruth Kelly and Opus Dei ...
I'm sure her beliefs are not too different from Blairs:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1411905,00.html
December 22, 2004

Scientists are alarmed by Ruth Kelly's strict beliefs
By Ruth Gledhill and Tony Halpin

LEADING scientists are concerned that the new Education Secretary’s conservative views on stem-cell research could affect vital science in Britain.
Ruth Kelly is a member of Opus Dei, a Roman Catholic organisation that follows a strict Vatican line on contraception, embryo research, cloning and abortion.

Ms Kelly, who has responsibility for a £1 billion research budget, opposed motions on embryo research in Parliament and is reported to have told Tony Blair that she could never support stem-cell research.

Robin Lovell-Badge, head of developmental genetics at the National Institute of Medical Research, told The Times Higher Education Supplement: “I have just been in the US and have seen how confused the situation is there. If someone as senior as Ruth Kelly is not going to favour stem-cell research we will end up with a similarly schizophrenic system in this country. It is very worrying.”

Nancy Rothwell, a Medical Research Council research professor and vice-president for research at Manchester University, said that it would worry her a great deal if ministers opposed stem-cell research.

“The views of ministers in the Department for Education and Skills (DfES) do matter as they are responsible for training the next generation of scientists. You can’t have a higher education policy that is at odds with the Government’s science policy,” she said.

The DfES refused to comment on Ms Kelly’s affiliation with Opus Dei. A spokeswoman said: “I am not going to discuss Ruth Kelly’s faith.”

But sources within the organisation confirmed that she attended meetings of the Roman Catholic organisation Opus Dei at Oxford with her brother Ronan Kelly. Dr Kelly, a hospital doctor currently doing research into herbal medicine in Singapore, is a “supernumerary” in Opus Dei, which makes him one of 500 British members and 84,000 members worldwide.

Unlike the movement portrayed in Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code, Opus Dei does not have its own monks but members include priests, bishops and at least one cardinal archbishop.

It has been controversial in the past due to its conservatism, secrecy and the practice of “mortification” where some members do penance by wearing a cilice or spiked bracelet around the top of the thigh, or by whipping themselves with a cat o’nine tails.

But the organisation is attempting to become more open about itself and to emphasise the life of holiness that its members attempt to lead.

There are four forms of membership or association. Most British members are supernumeraries, who are married but who make “commitments” to the aims of the organisation, or numeraries, who are celibate. The third form of full membership is as an associate, a person who is celibate but who lives out in the community and not in an Opus Dei centre.

Supporters can also become “co-operators”, individuals who pray regularly for the organisation and endorse its principles but who do not sign up to the commitments. Co-operators need not even be Catholic.

Among their duties, supernumeraries are encouraged to go to Mass daily, read the Gospel and say the Rosary. When Ms Kelly worked for The Guardian, former colleagues claimed, she attended Mass daily. Members also support the organisation financially.

Ms Kelly regularly attends meetings and other Opus Dei events, the organisation’s spokesman Jack Valero confirmed.

A senior Catholic source said: “There is no doubt whatsoever that Ruth Kelly is a fully paid-up member . . . on contraception, abortion, euthanasia and other issues such as stem-cell research, Ruth is very straight down the line.”




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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Paisley has powerful friends.
He was an early recipient of an honorary degree from Bob Jones University--in the august company of George Wallace, Storm Thurmond & Lester Maddox. (John Ashcroft is a more recent honoree.)

Paisley speaks at BJU regularly & two of his sons are on the faculty. Bush's speech there during his 2000 campaign signalled his anointment as the "Christian" extremist candidate. And he invited Rev Paisley to the first St Patrick's day celebration of his presidency.

Therefore, I'm sure Tony will take great pains to avoid offending the Reverend's sensitivity.....
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry, but this is pure shite ...
there is no basis of fact in the article, so it is another way to discredit the IRA and by association, Sinn Fein and the peace process. On all things Irish, Rupert Murdoch's The Times is not to be trusted.
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happynewyear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. no this is what it is:
Just one more Irish, Irish-Catholic bash.

I'm really sick of this.

What do the two of you hope to accomplish?

Why don't you take a strong look at yourselves is my suggestion and quit bashing the Irish people and the Catholics.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-29-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. This has been going on a long time....
Some of these posts can be quite amusing, in a twisted way. Nobody pays them much mind.

Wait until you hear the one about the Duchess of Windsor's secret daughter!
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Not quite so secret. I hear she and her husband have just
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 10:39 AM by emad
donated £10 million to the Asia tsunami relief fund.

I also understand two of their daughters are about to have a very public wedding to US nationals, one of them a son of a former Democratic Governor...........

Your fixation with apologising for the horrible history of organised crime in Ireland speaks volumes about a personal agenda.



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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. So--when's the biography of the lovely Duchess coming out?
Isn't it a bit late?

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I expect the timing of the publication may be a tactical thing,
delayed since last summer.

I've seen some of the new website pages that are being launched to co-incide with the book so I expect the two will be co-ordinated together.

My editorial role stopped with the page proofs of the book but I've met some of the website staff.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. This isn't about the Irish it's about ORGANISED CRIME as
anyone with half a grain of common sense knows.

That European politics in the 20th and now 21st century are riddled with criminal cults that have inflitrated all levels of society is indisputable.

Irish terrorists on all sides of the religious divide are no different from their UK, US or other counterparts.

Buth the Catholic Church has a jajor problem right now: their ugly criminality which Reagan/Bush1 and Thatcher were supposed to have hushed up is now rearing its ugly head once again, viz the Robert Calvi murder trial in Rome.

Also of note are the P2 Lodge's intrinsic conections to the BCCI scandal, currently being aired in the London High Court at last with 20,000 former creditors suing the Bank of England for misfeasance.

It took 13 years of subpoenaeing MI5, MI6 and the UK Ministry of Defence to obtian all the relevant intelligence/security material covered up by Thatcher - on Reagan's express wishes - to get this to court.

The role of the IRA and loyalist terrorists who colluded with the UK establishment, inclding the personal hit squads hired by Thatcher - will not make pleasant public reading in the New Year.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I'm sure that the Police Service of Northern Ireland would be
delighted to take on board your agenda in such matters.....

£40 million bank heist? Nothing like an apologia stemming from denial.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Rubbishing the Times? A number of papers carried similar
Edited on Thu Dec-30-04 10:39 AM by emad
accounts this week, as did the UK and European TV media.

Doesn't make the story any less credible.
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. i said there was no specifics in the article ...
... speculation does not make the cut with me. that sort of fluff journalism is just a waste of everyone's time. no way can you argue against that.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Start cutting that ice, bin.dare:
Edited on Fri Dec-31-04 09:52 AM by emad
BBC News
Adams' anger at bank probe raids


Sinn Fein chief Gerry Adams has complained to the government about raids by police investigating a £22m bank raid in Northern Ireland.
Five officers were hurt in Ballymurphy, west Belfast, as residents clashed with police when they raided the homes of a prominent republican.

Mr Adams said the raids were carried out by "securocrats" intent on wrecking the peace process.

Meanwhile, Northern Bank bosses may withdraw all the bank's notes.

More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4124947.stm

UP TO a dozen other stories in the press on this biz....



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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. emad, please edit your post
Don't post entire copyrighted articles. If you wish to reference an article, provide a brief excerpt and include a link to the original source. Generally, excerpts should not exceed three or four paragraphs.

Thank you
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Sorry, slip of the keyboard....
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. no problem and thanks
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jman0 Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. suggestion
Clearly this is idle speculation and in fact there is no evidence the IRA was involved with this.
Certain Republicans apparently are of the opinion that the robbers are in fact persons among the British security apparatus, MI5 or what have you. Because they are still fighting a "dirty war" against the Republican movement and appear intent on keeping that community politically disenfranchised.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Plausible. The recent Saville enquiry spent over £100 million and
some 10 years investigating collusion between British military operations, replublican terrorists, loyalist terrorists, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, MI5 and MI6.

Report expected in mid 2005.

Major lines of enquiry suggested that every UK Prime Minister since Harold Wilson had hired personal hit squads who were associated with organised crime in both Northern Ireland and in Eire.

QED.....
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. of course the IRA is suspected, of course republican homes ...
... and offices are raided, that is what the "security forces" do all the time. so?

here is a more reasonable article from CounterPunch, there's a lot in it you would like:
http://www.counterpunch.org/browne12222004.html

The Politics of Public Humiliation
Northern Ireland: No Postcards from the Edge
By HARRY BROWNE

...
But there's another complication amid all the usual speculation. (Was it an inside job? Is there forensic evidence? Can the gang get rid of so many Northern banknotes, which Irish travellers know to their frustration are hard to spend in Britain, despite their being legal UK tender?) Politically the heist has prompted a big "uh-oh", because everyone knows the name of the organisation most qualified to pull a job like this: the IRA. And that's the same IRA that until a couple of weeks ago was negotiating its way out of active existence.

In fairness, the IRA is only the first name on a reasonably long list of suspects. It also includes "dissident republican" groups such as the Real IRA and the INLA, or perhaps an alliance. Dissidents have been setting off minor incendiary devices for several weeks around Northern Ireland, so the fact that they're active and presumably short of funds might point to them. Then there are the various loyalist groups, the UDA, UVF and their various splinters and pseudonyms. "Ordinary Decent Criminals" might just be involved, though the scale of the job suggests that if it was done merely for fun and profit, the gang may still have been ex-paramilitaries.
...

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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. If its true then at least the IRA were trying to set up a pension
scheme for their members. It makes a change from the CEOs who spend their time thinking of ways of stealing from their workers pension funds.
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