Sex-assault treatment guidelines omit pill

[Rose Siding]

The U.S. Department of Justice has issued its first-ever medical guidelines for treating sexual-assault victims - without any mention of emergency contraception, the standard precaution against pregnancy after rape.

The omission of the so-called morning-after pill has frustrated and angered victims' advocates and medical professionals who have long worked to improve victims' care.
Gail Burns-Smith, one of several dozen experts who vetted the protocol during its three-year development by Justice's Office on Violence Against Women, said emergency contraception was included in an early draft, and she does not know of anyone who opposed it.
...
"In too many hospitals, the nurses and doctors are still reading the rape kit directions while they're doing the exam," said Linda Ledray, a sexual-assault exam trainer who directs the Sexual Assault Resource Service in Minneapolis.

One of the most inconsistent aspects of care is the morning-after pill. A 2002 analysis of national emergency-room data by the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey found that only 21 percent of sexual-assault victims received it. In a 1998 survey of urban Catholic hospitals, a University of Pennsylvania study found that 12 out of 27 centers had rules against informing rape victims about the method.
...
"I think it's very smart not to put that in the guidelines," said Dr. George Isajiw of Lansdowne, a board member of Physicians for Life, a Philadelphia antiabortion group.
By giving emergency contraception, he said, "you're giving a dangerous drug that's not doing any good, or else you're causing an abortion. As a moral principle, a woman has the right to defend herself against an aggressor. But she doesn't have the right to kill the baby."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10536368.htm?1c

[pinerow]

1. The Flat -Earth Society is now officially in charge.

nt

[Bozita]

2. probably because the females were "asking for it"

disgusting, absolutely disgusting

[slamthecrank]

6. I heard this

I actually heard this from a Catholic priest very recently - in South Carolina. I was born/raised Catholic, and recently I've been having more and more viceral reactions to homilies. Especially after the "the way women dress today is immoral...they are asking to be denegrated." Ugh!! And, then, the whole "Voter's Guide For The Serious Catholic" vomit that they handed out. Blech. I still go to church, and am hoping someday that someone will step up and fix the things that need fixing. But, right now - it's not looking too good.

[nashville_brook]

11. it's you against the pope and the whole catholic church

odds favor them heavily.

i stopped taking communion in high school over the chruch's stand on women clergy, contraception and abortion. then i stopped going to catholic church entirely -- and you know what... nothing bad happened! i still have faith, i still live a full and enriching life -- only i'm not quite so pissed off on sunday.

[slamthecrank]

14. pissed off on Sunday

I know the feeling. Actually, I haven't been *able* to take communion lately because our Priest here has pointed me out and noted that 1) I drink diet coke before and sometimes during mass *(I'm a recovering alchoholic, it's just one of those things that helps me not want to churn gin down my throat). and 2) I was very vocal in my support for John Kerry during the election, which he equated with advocating the slaughter of millions of defenseless babies, refusing to offer communion to me without going to confession first. Hell no. I don't need to go to confession. So, basically, I attend the church, perform the organ music for them, and collect a paycheck while essentially being excommunicated because I'm not in their "club". I get very pissed off on sundays. But, I also get a paycheck on sundays. It's a tough battle.

[nashville_brook]

15. sounds like your parish is even more conservative than mine was in the 80s

play the organ -- collect your check -- and look for work with the episcopalians.

and holy crap! good for you on your recovery! have all the diet coke you want!

:grouphug:

[timtom]

44. It may be a little late, but...

Welcome to DU, slamthecrank!!

[Up2Late]

101. "...advocating the slaughter of millions of defenseless babies..."

That kind of attitude REALLY pisses me off.:grr:

I'm a recovered Roman Catholic (I now consider myself a Tibetan Buddhist), but I left before the last major "SEX With Young Boys By Celibate Priests Scandal/Hypocrisy," which had nothing to do with it.

Next time ANY Anti Birth control/Anti-Choice "Religious" Person/Bush supporter trys to tell you that you support the killing of babies, you should show them some of the picture of the Dead babies that GWBush killed with his Sinful War ("Thou Shalt NOT Bare False Witness, Thou Shalt NOT Covet thy Neighbors Oil) at this web site. :mad:

WARNING: If the site of Dead Children or Dead Parents is Upsetting to you, DON'T click this link!

<http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/>

[KansDem]

134. Self deleted

[yorkiemommie1]

51. me too n/t

[w4rma]

123. Something bad is happening.

You are allowing them to take over your church without a fight. You should take a leadership role in your church or try to influence those with leadership roles. But you can't do either without showing up.

[markus]

22. Wow. Did they hand out the Serious Catholic drivel?

I've pretty much out of going to Mass, largely in reaction to this sort of thing, even though my kids are both about to be confirmed this month. (Something I am, at this point, very uncomfortable with, but I"m not pressing the point.)

That fellow (his name escapes me, the florid looking Irish-Catholic-from-central-casting fellow you see on the cables) is pretty scary.

[proudbluestater]

61. Gee, does the Catholic Church also blame little boys for dressing

immorally? Is that why they get molested? I thought so all along. Darn little boys and their Sunday School suits, just begging for it.

Sick, sick, sick. That church needs to clean its own damn house or shut the hell up.

[Cheswick2.0]

109. The Catholic church is not the only place you can find Jesus

start checking out other denominations.

[outrage]

135. I heard this

I actually heard this from a Catholic priest very recently - in South Carolina. I was born/raised Catholic, and recently I've been having more and more viceral reactions to homilies

I don't mean to put down anyone's religion, but the Catholic Church has a wee bit of a crediblity problem when they bounce known child molesters from parish to parish and then wail about the holocaust of babies from abortion. Not to mention their whole take on birth control is ridiculous and counterintuitive. "we want to stop abortion but wait, no birth control either," crazy. If Catholics want to swallow this bull, hey, it's a free country, they can. But to force it on everyone else is wrong. If a woman is raped and decides to carry to term, that is her choice. If she doesn't want to, that should be her choice too.

[Lithos]

40. That sad thing

Is there is more than a kernel of truth to what you are saying.

[Stargazer09]

83. Exactly!

I was raped in college nearly 20 years ago. Nobody cared about the circumstances of the actual rape. As soon as they learned that I knew the guy, it was all over. They said it wasn't a "real" rape, and they even told my father that. I was treated like I had either asked for it or was just trying to get attention.

If I had gotten pregnant that night, and if I hadn't been able to get an abortion, I would have killed myself. There was no way I would have allowed that horrible man's child to be born from my body. He did not deserve to have his DNA pass on to the next generation.

[musette_sf]

3. Gee, we're so sorry

you got raped. The attacker must have been awful, disgusting, loathsome. But we must insist that you bear his child. Hopefully it will be white, so we can allocate it to some barren fundie Thug couple who sends us money.

This message brought to you by the Physicians for Life. If we don't care about you, who will???

[TahitiNut]

4. "... she doesn't have the right to kill the baby"???

What "baby"?? This just underlines the complete and total insanity of these people. There's not even a fetus in the first 48-72 hours after conception and implantation.

Furthermore, just what the FUCK is "life" without a right to retain some self-determination after such an assault? Such zealotry is beyond reason - insane!

What kind of Medical School did these "physicians" attend that they don't comprehend this? Where did they ever get the idea that their zeal gives them a license to lie and impose their extreme superstitions on their patients? These people should have their medical licenses revoked immediately. They're not sane enough to be trusted treating the public.

[musette_sf]

5. "I ordered fried chicken!

What the hell is this fried egg on my plate?"

s-l-o-w-l-y for the morality impaired members of Physicians For Life:

Egg does not equal chicken
Zygote does not equal baby

[Fleshdancer]

9. I'm going to steal your analogy! n/t

[TahitiNut]

10. Excellent analogy.

They shouldn't be permitted to have a restaurant license, either. :evilgrin:

[Misunderestimator]

33. Excellent!

[musette_sf]

38. thanks all of you

for your kind words! it's such a simple premise... you'd think wingers and fundies could get their heads around it!

[janx]

50. And ACORN

does not equal OAK TREE. ;-)

[VegasWolf]

75. Shhhh! Soon fried eggs will be outlawed and you will only be able to

eat the whole chicken.

[hraka]

80. Look what a "progressive state" judge decided

This is scary.

"Washington State Judge Refuses to Let Pregnant Woman Divorce" (her abusive, imprisoned husband, who isn't even the father of the unborn child).

Sorry, did I give away the story?

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBFBJ18F3E.html

[aikido15]

127. I want a better world...

:argh:

[nashville_brook]

12. haven't you heard? no one cares about abortion anymore...

that's what the Dems are saying...

i will never EVER go to a hospital affilated with a church!

[Sal Minella]

16. revocation of medical and pharmaceutical licenses......

The pharmacists who think it is "immoral" to fill birth control scrips should also be fired pronto, if not stripped of their licenses.

Pharmacists are there to fill prescriptions written by the doctors. If they can't do their jobs, for whatever reason, they need to find other types of work.

[proudbluestater]

62. Boycott CVS

[VegasWolf]

76. What is with that CVS commercial where a huge helicopter is

carrying a dangling large letter W. There's no W in
pharmacy or cvs.

[Hebegirl]

104. Fundie Freaks Get Out of Health Care

It's called "care" for a reason. This whole business drives me crazy. What next? These "for life" types will start picking and choosing what kind of care they will and won't provide. They need to go find work in another field, the dingbats. (I say this as an RN).

[Stargazer09]

82. I resent being considered...

... a life support system. All of these "pro-life" zealots completely discount the woman's life in their idiocy.

According to their doctrine, as soon as I get pregnant, I no longer have a brain, a life of my own, or the ability to make my own decisions. It no longer matters that a pregnancy may kill me or maim me. All that matters to them is that the tiny potential life in there is allowed to grow, regardless of the consequences for the mother. They seem to think that we live in a perfect world, where women only get pregnant when they want to, and that nobody has fathers/boyfriends/spouses who will kill them or beat them simply due to their pregnancies.

How many of these zealous idiots have adopted unwanted children? How many of them have watched drug babies, AIDS babies, and severely deformed babies die a slow, painful death? Would these people truly condemn to death a young mother who learned, after her contraception failed, that giving birth to another baby would kill her, leaving her other children without a mother? If so, how could they live with themselves? How many of them have even come down from their ivory towers to see what real women have to deal with, especially in poverty-stricken areas? How many of them even support educating women in how to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies? Many of these same people who oppose using the morning after pill also consider the standard birth control pill to be abortion (if the pill doesn't stop ovulation, it will usually prevent implantation if the egg somehow managed to get fertilized). They refuse to allow sex education in schools, because they are afraid that it will make our teenagers decide to have sex. (Doesn't seem to matter to them that many teenagers are already having unprotected sex and would greatly benefit from honest information.)

I never hear these radicals telling men to stop having sex, or to use condoms, or to stop raping girls who are still in elementary school. I never hear them condemning rapists in general; in fact, one of those idiots actually said that a woman will only get pregnant from a rape if she enjoyed it! (That must make rape victims who get pregnant with their rapists' children feel really good.) Why are women always treated poorly for having an unwanted pregnancy? Why not make the men feel guilty? They are at least equally responsible for the conception. Why not go after the men, too?

I think this whole "pro-life" movement is nothing more than an excuse to suppress women. They advocate violence against women, as well as the enslavement of our bodies to their beliefs. They are willing to kill doctors and women to further their cause. They blanket themselves with "sanctity of life" arguments, while seeking to destroy women's lives and undermine everything that women have worked towards for decades.

My theory is that they are afraid of what women can do if given a chance. They want to go back to the days when women had no rights and were nothing more than chattel to be owned.

If they keep this up, American women will be forced to wear black veils over their faces before too long.

[TahitiNut]

96. As a male, I dislike saying this, but ...

... it's possibly based in man's feeling of powerlessness (equated to lack of control) in the birthing of children. It's not only in the self-indulgent 'proof of virility/fertility' (especially prized in low birthrate cultures) but in feeling helpless regarding outcome. The age-old obsession with the gender of the child, inflating the perceived value of the "like me" male child and likewise devaluing and mutilating (bound feet) female children, combined with the ignorance/awe of the process, most likely still engenders a reactive (knee-jerk) attempt to impose rule-by-force. We like to command what we don't comprehend, pretending we're (very stupid!) gods. I'd not doubt an exacerbation of this fear/ignorance by women in the 'battle of the sexes' that's been waged for many thousands of years, so nobody's an innocent in this. Everyone's been complicit. Sometimes we (both male and female - all of us) do the stupidest damned things, and doing it for thousands of years doesn't seem to make it any easier to change.

It's far more likely that a conservative would embrace such repressive (false 'control') behavior in virtually any realm of human fear/helplessness/ignorance, be it reproduction, governance, religion, or even family roles. In many cases, the myth that it "works" persists along with the obsessive repression. Somehow, the dark satisfaction of imposing such heavy-handed repressions seems to get almost symbolically equated with success in 'controlling' that larger context which generates such a feeling of helplessness.

[MaineDem]

110. An interesting perspective I hadn't considered

Another aspect of the control/lack of control issue.

THanks.

[Stargazer09]

115. Very good point!

And very well written. Thanks for your viewpoint!

[realisticphish]

119. great point

that explains a lot of the men, but what about the women? you would think that they would understand better then any man


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Lady Effingbroke]

7. delete.

[MaineDem]

8. Morning-after pill doesn't cause abortion

Holy crap!

If I remember correctly it prevents fertilization. So there's no NEED for an abortion.

This is absolutely mind-boggling. This is not meant as a slam against the many fine gentlemen here at DU but WTF right do men have to decide what women can do with their bodies? This Doctor George should try getting pregnant JUST ONCE before spouting off like this. And, in fact, get pregnant as a result of rape. He'll change his tune quickly.

I'm sorry I've been ranting. THis really pisses me off.

[nashville_brook]

13. just proves it's not about ABORTION, it's the Handmaid's Tale

it's about power. we (women) are baby-making machine. period.

[genieroze]

91. Here is a synopsis of The Handmaidens Tale.

Read it and weep people, this is happening.

http://www.epinions.com/The_Handmaid_s_Tale_by_Margaret_Atwood_and_narrated_by_Joanna_David_and_narrated_by_Betty_Harris/display_~reviews

[VegasWolf]

77. Yes, but the holies don't like birth control either. Gotta give the sperm

a fighting chance.

[Stargazer09]

86. That certainly rules out...

...oral sex, masturbation, and all sorts of "unusual" activities, doesn't it?

[Stargazer09]

84. I completely agree!

It is so refreshing to hear other women say this!

[MaineDem]

111. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[yardwork]

17. There's a representative in North Carolina (I forget which one)

who repeatedly states that women "can't get pregnant from a rape."

[MaineDem]

18. WTF?

Excuse me while I let my head explode...

[yardwork]

20. Yep

[Sir Craig]

23. Rep. Henry Aldridge

Here is the link you might be looking for:

During an April debate on government funding for abortions, Rep. Henry Aldridge told the North Carolina House Appropriations Committee that rape victims didn't need the fund because "they don't get pregnant." "(P)eople who are raped-- who are truly raped--the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work," said the 71-year-old periodontist.

So a dental technician is supposed to be the fount of knowledge for this retardation..?

[yardwork]

26. Thank you for the link. Hard to believe, isn't it?

[Sir Craig]

54. I wish it was...

n/t

[bettyellen]

27. Oh God, We are idiots to let people like this have a say...

[Misunderestimator]

34. OMG

the BODY FUNCTIONS DON'T WORK?!? Aldridge gets the prize for THE most ignorant statement ever.

[Child_Of_Isis]

36. "who are truly raped"

What the hell does that mean? If you get pregnant, you were a willing partner...or that you enjoyed the rape? Or the victim is lying? This is wrong on so many levels. Maybe in the future, this is how they will decide if a person is guilty of rape or not. Baby, not guilty. No baby, guilty. WTF?

[MaineDem]

42. This is beyond comprehension

People can be so ignorant!

[TankLV]

79. You just don't understand, silly!

First you have to also throw them into deep water bound and gagged.

If they drown, they were not raped - they enjoyed it.

If they don't drown, it's the work of the devil and proof that they are witches, that they are lying and they were not raped - they enjoyed it - so they must be stoned to death.

Understand now?

[Stargazer09]

85. I bet rape victims just love him for that remark (n/t)

[genieroze]

94. Mental retardation by mercury poisoning from those old fashioned

fillings I guess.

[fortyfeetunder]

97. He only knew heads, not tails.

Remember, just because a person has a PhD, DDS JD, or MD degree, doesn't mean they also have an ounce of common sense. They just happened to pass a bunch of tests really well. This guy is a classic example.

A periodontist does have a DDS degree, but this one obviously only knows one end of the human body really well....

And I know he is effing wrong because I know one victim who carried the pg to term, and gave the baby up for adoption....

[Hebegirl]

105. Gotta Love the "Truly" in This One!

Come on, so this fool who pokes around in people's orifices is going to tell us the "juices don't flow" -- when women are raped ("truly raped" that is), like, whose juices are we talking about here?? He is probably one of these freaks who molests patients when their under anesthesia...
they don't get preggers 'cuz his juices just flow into a slack mouth.

[GiovanniC]

129. He's Not The Only One Who Believes This

Lots of people do. Lots of (otherwise) intelligent people, working in the medical profession. Truly chilling.

[Megahurtz]

131. Henry Aldridge sounds like some old

closet perv who gets off on rape and incest. He makes quotes like someone who is guilty of the crime!

I think this guy needs to be watched. I wonder what other skeletons he has in HIS closet? :freak:

[Vektor]

30. He should try telling that to the Sudanese

women who have been impregnated by rape by Janjaweed invaders. The babies that resulted are all over the refugee camps.

[jdj]

41. This is equivalent to stating that women only get pregnant

from sex that they enjoy.

And in that case the human race would have died out with the advent of patriarchal religion and the demonization of female sexuality about 5-12,000 years ago.

[Vektor]

43. Right you are... n/t

[consciousobjector]

98. If you had to enjoy it

to get pregnant, my sister and I wouldn't be here...neither would quite a few of us I imagine..."Ladies" weren't supposed to enjoy "it" back then.

[athenap]

19. Sick people...so it's up to us

How dare some bozo make some arbitrary decision about an act of violence committed against a woman. Based on ignorance of how the drug works. this is just sick.

Rules *against* informing the victim of the method? Good Gods! Let's also extend that to cancer...let's have rules against informing cancer victims about treatments that don't involve the laying on of hands.

And that makes it more important than ever to educate women--all women--about the existence of this part of the sexual assault process. There may be a way to get around it by ensuring that whenever a tragedy like this happens, that the woman affected is aware of her rights and options, and can ask for it.

"you're giving a dangerous drug that's not doing any good..." Hello--Vioxx! How about this jackass keep his nose out of morning after pills and go after the pills that kill people already here.

mad enough to spit nails here.

[genieroze]

90. let's have rules against informing cancer victims

After all those poor little cancer cells are living things. Don't they deserve protection too? (sarcasm)

[truthisfreedom]

21. let him pay the women for their pain, effort, lost work time, suffering,

lost jobs, maternity clothing, pre-natal care, and then let him adopt ALL of the babies.

as a matter of fact, any a$$hole who wants to control women's bodies after forced pregnancy as a result of sexual assault deserves ALL the responsiblity for carrying the child inside his own body. this should be his self-righteous reward.

[VegasWolf]

24. "I'm proud to be an Murikan. where at least I know I'm free,. ... " n/t

[bettyellen]

25. Excuse me. if it's legal, then i have the right to PREVENT the

freaking pregnancy? Excuse me but hours after being raped, there is no baby, asshole!!

I AM OUTRAGED!!! WHO THE HELL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE GUIDELINES? U>S Dept of justice?? You'd think they know what is legal, as opposed to what some people wish was illegal!! Sheesh!
F*iing Dems better put preservation of Reproductive rights on their agenda, because the slope is too slippery.

[bettyellen]

28. Pls Support the ACLU"s Duvall Reproductive Freedom Project..........

http://www.aclupa.org/duvall/

In 1929, 34 year-old Clara Bell Duvall died from complications of a self-induced abortion. Left behind were five young children, including Linn Duvall Harwell, who has dedicated her life to ensuring that other women do not suffer the same tragic fate as her mother. Out of that commitment came the Clara Bell Duvall Project. Created in 1979, the Project is dedicated to education and advocacy about the need for safe, legal, and accessible reproductive health programs. The Duvall Project is a non-profit, tax-exempt educational organization supported by individual contributions, grants from private organizations, and special events.

Unique among pro-choice organizations, the Duvall Project bridges the gap between academic and activist communities. In addition, many of its projects are facilitated by young women, giving them an opportunity to be active in the community.

Headquartered in Philadelphia, the Duvall Project combines statewide advocacy with national networking. As a member of numerous coalitions, the Project shares activist strategies and information in communities from Maine to California. The Duvall Project merged with the ACLU of Pennsylvania in 2000.

[catzies]

37. Thanks for that link. Never heard of that project before.

:thumbsup:

[Vektor]

29. I'd like to respond to this...

...but I want to spare all my frieds at DU the brunt of my searing rage.

[mtnester]

31. THIS is exactly the item that is to be discussed for 4 hours in April

That is the negotiated deal with Frist when the senate voted on the Omnibus Bill...you know, that 3500 page monster that included that little peeky boo at your tax returns thingy?

Well the OTHER huge thing in it was the revocation of requiring after rape counseling at the hospital to include information on the morning after pill.

If you do a little digging, it was agreed that if everyone "went along" this item will be revisited in April for 4 hours open disussion.

Many of the Dems agreed to this, including Hillary and Laternou. They lost my vote with their Yay vote on this.

And you see now what the result is?

I will say no more as my blood pressure is near critical mass right now.

[Angry Girl]

32. *sputter* I am speechless with anger ....

Am I reading you right or did someone swap out my morning vitamins for a hit of bad acid?

[wolfgirl]

35. Education is the key folks...

They don't want us educated, because when you are educated you understand that s**t like this is just that S**T! It is no surprise that Education was on the top of Bush's agenda in 2000...keep us stupid so they can do whatever they hell they want.

I'm am so angry I can barely breathe!

[Ilsa]

39. Well there goes "Except in cases of rape or incest."

So much for compassionate conservatism.

I'm really getting tired of having to fight this battle. All those years of counter-protesting in front of clinics, marching to protect women's right to choose, writing and calling politicians were for nought. The religious extremists have won.

I think younger women are going to have to figure this out and speak up if it is important to them. Oh that's right, either they're too busy working three jobs or they've been brainwashed into believing a few cells is a baby.

[HockeyMom]

46. Cells

When these PROLIFE people have a bunch of 5 week old cells in their Fallopian tube and the good CHRISTIAN hospital says they can't kill that "baby", leave you lying in your hosptial bed until your tube bursts, have so much internal bleeding that these good "Christian" doctors joke that they can't find your bladder, and you nearly go into a coma, then come back and tell me about killing "babies". MY life is worth more than a bunch of cells. This happened to me in July 1983.

[Vektor]

48. I had an ectopic in 1999.

Not a good time.

[Ilsa]

55. Good God.

The "baby" can't survive an ectopic anyway, and they were going to just let you die, based on an absurd religious belief. Strangely, I guess the rupturing of your tube was the only way they "could" intervene to save your life.

How disgustingly simple-minded of them. Seriously, makes me wonder about how much intelligence was required for some of these people to get into medical school.

I'm so glad you made it, Hockey Mom, inspite of their lack of effort. Your story deserves publication. If you don't mind, I'll be repeating it.

[Branjor]

71. OMG....

that's unbelievable. These people are SICK and should not be allowed to practice medicine. We have to get the catholic church out of the hospital business. They have been buying up hospitals like crazy. The community hospital in my town was bought by a catholic health care organization a few years back.

About the morning after pill - I believe it prevents implantation, not fertilization. That makes no difference, it should still be given to rape victims, but just wanted to correct the factual error.

[peacebird]

67. dear gawd HockeyMom - i hope you were able to sue the bastards

un-believable. freaking insane.

[Swamp Rat]

72. Oh HockeyMom!

I'm glad that you survived such a horrible ordeal. :hug:

I've seen "Christian hospitals" in Central America and Brasil (some run by American missionaries). One of my in-laws had a deep cut on his leg that could have been cured, but they sewed up grass and dirt in the wound, and it therefore had to be amputated all the way up to the waist many hours later.

[rebecca_herman]

73. Sick

That's sick, I'm very sorry that happened to you.

[rebecca_herman]

74. This is sick

They have no right to force their judgment on a woman who has been through something as horrible as rape. I think hospitals should be required to tell the woman this exists and how she can get it at the very LEAST. I'd love to see them be required to give it out. Every time a state tries the stupid Catholic Church hospitals fight it in church. I'd be afraid to go to one if I ever have a complication someday in the future during a pregnancy.

[Stargazer09]

88. I agree

I am so sorry you had to go through all of that.

These so-called "pro-life" idiots tend to forget that women are more important than the "products of conception." If they had treated you promptly and correctly, you may have been more able to conceive a healthy pregnancy in the future, which should have been their goal.

:grouphug:

[genieroze]

93. Did you sue the piss out of them? eom

[Hebegirl]

106. I hope so...

I am so frickin' mad I hope that when they finally found your bladder, piss got all over them. They deserve it. It's all part of the old devalue, disempower, control women thing. Some lay people who have been convinced that a blastocyst is a baby may have good intentions, but I am firmly convinced that the real power mongers behind this are laughing all the way to the bank- it's a good way to get women back where we belong- barefoot, poor, preggers. So, I agree we need to WORK AROUND IT.
They can't outlaw us educating people about it-- I am all for massive public education campaigns, a la Margaret Sanger in the early 20th century. Pretty pathetic we have de-volved by about a century here...and it was illegal for Sanger- she broke the Comstock Laws and went to jail for educating women about their bodies and about birth control!!

[HockeyMom]

120. No, I didn't sue

although many, many people said I should have. Plus, I didn't even go into greater detail of that experience either. As somebody else posted, I could write a paper on so much of what they said and did to me. It was so much worse than what I posted. My then 3 year old daughter gave me the strength to FIGHT them and get through it. I wanted to LIVE to see HER GROW UP. Yes, I did see her grow up. AND to see my younger daughter, who I had 2 years almost to the day, grow up too. Because, you see, if I HADN'T survived, my beautiful younger daughter WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN. The way I look at it is that maybe that "group of cells" HAD TO DIE so ANOTHER COULD BE BORN. I guess my philosophy is completely alien to the "Christian" way of thinking. So be it.

My only wish is that some other young woman NEVER, NEVER has to go though what they put me through.

[put out]

118. I am so sorry that happened to you.

I was going to undergo surgery for a bad reproductive situation. I asked my surgeon to please do a tubal ligation while she was in there. She had surgical privileges at two hospitals. One was Catholic. The other was not covered by my insurance. The Catholic hospital would not allow such a procedure. The other would charge big bucks and would make it necessary to undergo another surgical procedure.

Now, what do you think it would have cost the Catholic hospital if I had become pregnant again? Tens of thousands of dollars. And the cost to a potential child? Horrible.

But I could pay several thousand dollars to have her operate in the not-covered hospital. All because no one would want to impair my fertility, which was shot anyway.

I felt like a piece of meat.

[Hebegirl]

122. I am sorry for both of you... all of us.

I worked for this amazing women's health clinic for a brief moment in time, before the clinic had to close down due to lack of funds. It was so Feminist and so woman-focused, in a real grassroots way! It had started as a classic 1970s "health collective." A lot of the ideas were soon mainstreamed, but the sentiment (woman-focused) never really got translated, I think. Too much of Western medicine makes people feel like slabs of meat, which is truly unfortunate. Not that western practice doesn't have its benefits! It would really raise awareness if someone put together a collection of not-so-good birth stories, if women were willing to share like you all have here...Too often it's these realities of women's health being at risk that don't get told. Why should the self-appointed moralizers be the ones to decide that a mother with an ectopic should die rather than have the implanted fetus removed, (leaving her other kids - if she has them) motherless/ Where is the FRIGGING MORALITY IN THAT?? Maybe the woman and family should decide what is morally appropriate in this scenario? Now there's a 21st Century concept! Margaret Sanger's grandson wrote a book called "Beyond Choice" which is interesting reading along this subject line.

[Vektor]

45. Planned Parenthood to the rescue!

Fortunately, for those of us who don't want to abide by the wants of the right-wing crusaders, Planned Parenthood provides instruction on how to use standard issue birth control pills as emergency contraception, up to five days after unprotected sex, or god forbid, rape occurs.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/library/BIRTHCONTROL/EmergContra.htm


In your face, right-wing oppressors!

Edit for all you trivia buffs: The former treasurer of Planned Parenthood was none other than Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush.

[Ilsa]

47. Thanks. I copied the info and saved the link.

No telling when that information will be outlawed.

[Vektor]

49. Everyone should save this info.

Never know when you might need it.

[Lorien]

57. The morning after pill doesn't made you horribly sick

like extra contraceptives do. If you've ever taken two BC pills by mistake, then you know what I mean. I took the morning after pill 12 hours after a condom broke once, and I wasn't even nauseous (and if anyone wants to say that I've "had an abortion" because of that, then my response is "you're effing delusional").

[Vektor]

63. Don't I know it.

I too have had to double up on the pills after missing one, and oh lordy...
:puke:
I guess a person could take an anti-nausea drug before taking the pills...this method is only recommended as a back-up option if no EC is available.

I have known of some women who become nauseous after the EC, but I think that is only an occasional thing.

[The Flaming Red Head]

113. Prescott Bush nickname was Rubbers

It's a shame he didn't use them, but then no method is 100%.

I saved the info, thanks you never know who may need that at some point.

[janx]

52. What on earth is the Justice Dept.'s business in medicine, anyway?

This is CREEPY.

[Princess Turandot]

53. As ridiculous as this may be, it probably doesn't change much..

I don't think the 'Guidelines' are legal requirements or outlawed the morning after pill. If these are the first ever on this topic, hospitals across the country will in all likelihood continue to do whatever they have been doing before these guidelines were issued. I think in major urban areas, police/ambulances generally don't bring rape victims to Catholic hospitals, whose practices are known and nothing new. And you need to keep in mind that what an MD does relative to a specific patient may not always conform to an institution's guidelines, be it giving the woman a script which does not go in the medical record, or whatever. (All MDs have their own prescription pads, not just hospital based ones.) If you ever have spoken to an ED doc in a Catholic hospital on this topic (I have), they tend to be very vague on the question of what they actually advise rape victims to do. And I don't think it's because they are ashamed of the institution's guidelines; I think it's because they don't necessarily follow them in all cases, but they are not going to talk about it.

I think this is another example of the Rebugs doing something to placate their right-wing supporters, but which in reality will change little.

[OutsourceBush]

56. Republicans are Pro-Rape and Pro-Incest

I keep telling people this and they think I am joking, but I am not.

Republicans want a 100% ban on abortions, in even the most obscene circumstances.

[Solly Mack]

58. I'm reading this after reading about the sexist fuck-wad

who won't allow a divorce because of pregnancy. "for the good of the fetus"

Now, this...

Just fuck all people who think this way. May they die a painful death.
May they never have a moment of happiness. People who would deny a rape victim this pill are no better than the rapist.

[rodeodance]

60. guidelines such as this from BushCo are so discouraging!!!!!!

[hraka]

81. I just read that too!

And he's not even the father! Plus he's serving time for beating her!! I included a link to that story in my reply #80.

[proudbluestater]

59. What does this have to do with the Justice Department?

Why does the dictatorship insist on now trying to practice medicine? Are there no rights below the federal level for making our own laws? What happened to the Rethugs and their precious "state's rights"?

So doctors are not allowed to practice medicine without asking for the regime's permission? However, they are allowed to freely prescribe DANGEROUS drugs that the FDA will not make drug makers pull from the market.

I need to get a flight out of this god-forsaken country.

[Learning2Fly]

65. It's obvious

we're sliding backwards socially and politically when the church consorts with this goverment and would resurrect the argument that women are somehow responsible for their own rape. I thought we had corrected that mindset about 40 years ago.

Rather than the enlightened leaving this country, I suggest the neocons purchase one-way tickets to Iraq and Afghanistan where they are doing a bang-up job of shaping their brand of democracy.

[Nobody]

64. And when will these sanctimonious blowhards consider a woman a person?

Ny guess is that they won't.

The idea that a woman isn't as valuable as the egg and sperm inside her persists to this day in the minds of some. The idea that a baby is a punishment still exists. You only have to look at the right wing's rabid attempts to forbid teaching about contraceptives, spreading lies about abortion and breast cancer in the literature that a woman is required to read beforehand, dismantling programs that assist women who already are struggling, and making it increasingly difficult to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

And then you have the expectations that a woman must always make choices that everyone else, mainly the most judgemental members of society, approves of. If even one woman has an abortion for an unacceptable reason, therefore all women shouldn't be allowed to choose. After all, women can't be trusted, they are making bad choices.

If one teenage girl has consensual sex with her boyfriend, we must lock up all daughters because after all, teenage girls are all irresponsible nymphomaniacs.

If one woman claims she was raped because the only way she could get an abortion was for this reason, and she wasn't being truthful, the exception for rape must be verified before it can be granted by a judge. After all, women are all liars and will say anything to get what they want.

I am so sick of the judgements heaped upon women. Before, during, and after a pregnancy.

We don't place Taliban-style restrictions on all men because of one rapist.

[pop goes the weasel]

68. Taliban

"We don't place Taliban-style restrictions on all men because of one rapist."

That's because Taliban-style restrictions require men to be rapists. All men are forced to be complicit in violence, including sexual violence, against women under Taliban-style rules. This is why any decent guy is a feminist, in my womanly opinion.

[Nobody]

70. Any human being with any decency at all

treats people as individuals, rather than members of a group that needs to be controlled. Women are not their uteri and most men do understand that.

These men are part of what's good about humanity.

The crux of the debate is not when life begins, it's who decides. Someone somewhere makes a decision, but damn it all, it better not be the woman!

Those who say: it's OK to allow abortions in certain cases, i.e. rape are deciding for all women that abortion is indeed OK. But under their rules and they'd better be satisfied that women aren't making any choices that they don't agree with.

Society gets to decide, not you.

A judge gets to decide, not you.

Keep in mind that if a woman can be forced to carry a pregnancy to term against her will, she can also be forced to abort against her will. It's happening in China and the Republicans in the US are OK with it.

But then, the Chinese women aren't doing the choosing.

[Stargazer09]

92. On top of all of this...

...are the women who are being forced to have cesareans because their doctors said that they must. Not too long ago, a woman had to go to a different town to have her baby because the doctors and a local judge filed legal paperwork requiring the woman to have a cesarean the moment she stepped back into their hospital. The doctors claimed that the woman was putting herself and her baby in danger by not wanting surgery. She had a normal birth, and a healthy baby, at the other hospital, which goes to show how much those idiot doctors knew.

With my last pregnancy, I had one doctor tell me that not only was she requiring me to have a cesarean, she also wanted me to have my tubes tied! When I said that I didn't want a cesarean, and I certainly didn't want to be sterilized, she "fired" me as her patient.

I agree with you that women should be able to make decisions regarding their own health and well-being. It's really sad that our ability to do that is being eroded away.

[genieroze]

95. This was a female doctor? What a dumb bi+ch. eom

[Stargazer09]

99. Yep.

My original doctor had moved out of town, and I ended up with her. She was an hour late for our appointment, and she didn't bother to introduce herself when she finally showed up.

The first words out of her mouth were, "You ARE getting your tubes tied this time, right?" I told her no, that my husband was planning on getting a vasectomy. Her reply: "See that he does." Then she asked me when I wanted to schedule my cesarean, and I told her that I didn't want another cesarean. She didn't say anything, but the very next day, her nurse called to say that I needed to come in weeks earlier than my scheduled appointment, and that's when the doctor told me to find somebody else to deliver my baby.

Granted, I've had complications in the past, and I did end up having a cesarean, but my new doctor actually gave me the option of having a normal birth. Plus, my new doctor, a man, had no problem whatsoever with me having another baby if I wanted one. I think that female doctor would have made up some reason to give me a hysterectomy if I had been stupid enough to stick with her.

[genieroze]

100. That's why, you had a previous C section.

I had that problem as well. I had to travel a hour away to find a doc to would deliver vaginally after a c sec. I finally found one, this was sixteen years ago.

[Stargazer09]

116. I know what you mean.

Actually, I had worse than a prior cesarean, I had a "rupture" of a prior cesarean. However, it was mostly caused by the doctors who induced labor (a big no-no for VBACs), and it was not a true rupture. It was simply the old scar opening, and it was repaired just as if it had been a cesarean.

There have been numerous studies showing the safety of VBAC compared to repeat cesarean, so I saw no reason why I couldn't have another VBAC with my last baby. However, my new doctor very patiently explained my risks to me, and I was able to decide for myself to have a cesarean. That was all I really wanted. I just needed somebody who was willing to let me make the decision on my own.

The woman doctor has quite a reputation for a complete lack of compassion and bedside manner, so it's not surprising that she expected me to follow her decision without question. However, I am too educated to just accept major surgery on her word alone.

[Cheswick2.0]

112. That word is not acceptable

I don't know if you realize this but that word is the one men use to reduce women to the status of female dogs, only suitable for breeding.

[FizzFuzz]

117. There's a DUer here

who actually DOES believe this!
The idea that a woman isn't as valuable as the egg and sperm inside her persists to this day in the minds of some. The idea that a baby is a punishment still exists.

She should visit this thread.

This RW/religious reduction of women to reproductive functions, the total lack of empathy for women's suffering,....I just can't even speak. I've ranted plenty on this topic, I really can't anything and plenty of people here have already said it more eloquently than I ever could.

I just want to scream at the inhumane CRUELTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These so-called "christians" are sick! Evil! Twisted with hate!


Ah god, I have to go find something uplifting because this is enough to make me do illegal things.

And our local paper was just crowing about a born-again fundy convention held in our city. I have so had enough of them.........the whole sanctimonious control-freak lying woman/gay hating mess of them.

[Triana]

66. By giving emergency contraception "HE" said?!

...there's the problem. HE shouldn't have a damn thing to say about it.

HE needs to get raped, beaten repeatedly, raped again, get HIV, and get pregnant and then see how HE feels about it then.

Bastard.

[CTyankee]

69. Ah, but so called prochoice republicans reply

"Abortion's not the only issue."

To this I say, "Then why do you vote for a party for which abortion IS the only issue (along with anything else that goes on in a woman's pelvic area and anything that gay people do in the privacy of their own homes).

[daleo]

78. An amazing attitude

"As a moral principle, a woman has the right to defend herself against an aggressor. But she doesn't have the right to kill the baby."

So they really do believe women who have been raped have no right to abortion. Do they feel that rape is God's will?

Among other things, this lets the criminal profit from his crime (in a sociobiological sense).

[Hebegirl]

107. Who are they??

Who is this ^%$* who thinks he is going to lecture me about MORAL PRINCIPLES? Who named him spokesperson? In my moral universe, and what I hear a lot of other DUers saying, it is actually IMMORAL to FORCE A WOMAn to bear a child against her will. No matter under what circumstance a lil' zygote took root. It's still my body (I think...).

[genieroze]

87. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr:

[bobthedrummer]

89. Children face sex risk at US schools. New research indicates 10%.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1263844,00.html

[genieroze]

102. Seems a bit high. eom

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidwhite0570]

108. all i can say is WTF?

[sakabatou]

114. "But she doesn't have the right to kill the baby."

Unless a law is passed and upheld that a women cannot have an abortion, a women has the right to abort her child.

[aikido15]

126. So does she have to wait and have .....

an abortion later?? What the fuck is that?!?!?!...What a bunch of shit...I cannot believe this.

[demigoddess]

121. they have to fill that need for cannon fodder.

Their feelings of inadequacy as men are soothed by sending other men's sons off to war.

[WildClarySage]

124. This jackass may be ruled by his dick

but I am not a hostage to my ovaries. I take complete charge and responsibility for my fertility and reproductive system. Let him look to his own. I'll watch out for mine, thanks.

As a former rape advocate, let me just add that this document is meant to be an advising guideline for communities to consider when putting together their own violence response protocols. The harm comes because this is a federal endorsement of ignoring a victim's right to and need for health information. For now, most communities putting together their protocols will simply include the EC info because there are domestic violence and sexual assault intervention advocates on the task forces that produce them- but how long before the federal protocols are incorporated into the federal grant guidelines? Are they going to make it a requirement that if your program receives federal dollars to respond to the needs of victims in your community that you may not offer the information? This may be one more step toward a Gag Rule for American victim's advocates.

[aikido15]

125. Are you fucking kidding me??????????????

Oh, that's it...it's time for a revolution..I can't take this shit anymore...:grr: I'm not a violent person but I wish they would all just fucking DIE.

[Wapsie B]

128. Well that's good, Dr. Isajiw.

When a woman close to you gets attacked, we'll let her carry the seed of a rapist. How much ya wanna bet if there's a daughter of some right winger in this situation she'll just take a "vacation" to Europe?

[Megahurtz]

130. George Isajiw can kiss my ass

He has no right to say what a pregnant woman can do with a fetus, especially since he can't get pregnant himself.

Dumbass!:mad:Women are NOT breeding cows.

[outrage]

132. "Sex-assault treatment guidelines omit pill"

OH MY**&&&@@@@!!!!%%% GOD! Just tell me what I can do right now to let this BS administration know how I feel about their attempts to shove the warped view of morality down the throats of rape victims!
I feel like I'm wasting my time even posting here. As soon as I'm done here I'm going to write my legislators. How much of this **&&&%%#$##! do we have to take already? Is everybody in the white house on crack? They've lost their monkey-ass minds. I'm sorry my response isn't more thoughtful, but I'm so pissed off right now I could just go postal.

[MaineDem]

133. Welcome to DU

And we're outraged, too!

However, I have to admit your post made me chuckle. Please don't take offense because I know how angry you are but "They've lost their monkey-ass minds" just made me smile.

I'm spitting nails over this so I join you in your disgust!

Welcome! :hi: