Gadhafi tells African leaders: 'Straights' don't get AIDS | AP

[Ediacara]

Gadhafi tells African leaders: 'Straights' don't get AIDS

ELLIOTT SYLVESTER, Associated Press Writer Saturday, July 12, 2003

(07-12) 13:49 PDT MAPUTO, Mozambique (AP) --

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi told a conference of African leaders Saturday that Africans who are "straight" need not fear AIDS, which is ravaging many countries on the continent.

Speaking through a translator, Gadhafi drew some laughter with his reference to AIDS only affecting homosexuals.

He told the closing session of the eight-day annual African Union conference, "All you have to do is observe the rules. If you are straight, you have nothing to fear from AIDS."

More at the San Fransisco Chronicle

mods, this is 13 hours old, but I didn't find it posted, and is something I'd imagine many people would find interest in

[roguevalley]

1. he's such a moron

too bad the world is so badly lead

[codeword]

2. Straights almost never get AIDS...

unless they are injected with dirty needles, as happened in Africa due to the filthy system of innoculation and vaccination in African countries.

[Ediacara]

3. is this

meant as a joke?

[JohnKleeb]

4. I dunno Dino but hes a disgrace to socialists like me if he is

Well I consider myself a democratic socialist and what he said aint funny and I find this suprising because hes more secular than most Muslim leaders.

[Ediacara]

5. I was refering to

the poster's comment, not Gahdaffi's.

[JohnKleeb]

8. sorry Dino but keep in mind Mommar is a so called socialist

this self described democrat socialist me does not find it funny and supports gay marriage. My response man anyone could get AIDS.

[WindRavenX]

6. Sorry, EVERYONE gets AIDS

People need to be educated that safe sex means using condoms- straight OR gay.

[codeword]

9. Everyone is NOT equally at risk.

People almost always get AIDS from dirty needles or receptive anal sex. It is very difficult to get it any other way. I realize that it is not politically correct to say this, but it is true. That's why the expected heterosexual AIDS "epidemic" never took place in the US.

[Ediacara]

sorry buddy

but this is total BS. Where do you get this information!?

[WindRavenX]

13. Right now heterosexual males are the fastest growing...

...population being infected by AIDS. Originally, your statements may have been true, but not today.
And whether or not if you're straight or gay or whatever, you need to use protection for any type of sexual intercourse. And the problem with what Gahdaffi said is that it'll make people careless with their sexual practices.
Just because you're straight doesn't meant you're immune. And that's the bottom line.

[Ediacara]

15. aparently

There's a rumor amoung South African men, that you can get rid of AIDS by deflowering a virgin. Ya, no transmission of HIV there....

[WindRavenX]

18. Yeah, that's why education is so important

...because when everyone believe something like that, it's going to get out of control fast :(

BTW, googling for some info on HIV infection rates now...

[GCP]

55. True, and to guarantee virginity, they have been known to rape babies

some only 2 weeks old.

As to the other point, AIDS is a heterosexual disease in Africa. The stats are there for anybody to check.


http://www.aegis.com/news/newsday/1988/ND880903.html

[tkmorris]

7. Codeword?

Sorry mate, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Heterosexuals contract AIDS quite often without any dirty needles etc. being involved.

[codeword]

10. Then why are there almost NO examples of heterosexual aids in the US?

Except for IV drug users, contaminated blood supply victims, or women who practice receptive anal intercourse.

[Ediacara]

11. actually

The most at risk group for HIV infection in the US are promiscuous teenaged girls, not gay men. Sorry, try again!

[codeword]

12. Care to give some evidence for this claim?

Cite a source?

[Ediacara]

14. try

any AIDS health organization in the US or the CDC. Where do you get your info from?

[codeword]

16. Please give me a source, not an invitation to look up a source.

There is a reason why heterosexual transmission is difficult. The AIDS virus needs to pass into the bloodstream. It can do this easily through the thin lining of the anus, but not so easily through the vagina or penis--unless there are cuts or sores. That's why there are so few heterosexual AIDs cases in the US. African AIDS is primarily due to the primitive medical system which did not adequately sterilize needles that were reused for vaccinations and innoculations.

[Ediacara]

17. that is a source

Now where's YOUR source? The one that demonstrates that all of medical science on viral transimission and STDs and HIV in particular is incorrect?

[codeword]

19. A good book on the subject is...

The Myth of Heterosexual Aids, by Michael Fumento, who accurately predicted the leveling off of the AIDS epidemic by the end of the 1990s for reasons I mentioned above. He cites many scientific studies in support of his analysis. The book is a good read, and is out in paper.

I am trying to be polite about this. I am only stating my view. I realize that this is an emotional issue with you, and I mean no offense.

[Ediacara]

22. it's not an emotional issue

It's a science issue. You state something that according to modern science and medicine is 100% BS. Then you act as though I'm an idiot.

[codeword]

30. It's emotional, all right.

You are mistaken in claiming that modern science and medicine say that we are all "equally at risk." We are all at risk, but not equally. People who practice IV drug use, get innoculations or vaccinations from dirty needles, or practice receptive anal intercourse are much more at risk. It is possible for to get AIDS in other ways--e.g., through sores or open cuts on the genitalia. But this happens in only a small percentage of the cases.

I am not treating you like an idiot. If I were, I would not try to explain my view to you at all.

[Ediacara]

34. This is just not true though

genitals have just as many near-skin blood vessels as the anus, and to claim that the penis and/or vagina is somehow teflon coated is just silly.

[joshcryer]

38. I think that book you read is influencing you too much here.

I mean, it's obvious that any unhygenic behavior is going to lead to disease. What you're trying to do here, is equate homosexuality with unhygenic behavior, right off the bat, when obviously, at least in the case of Asia, we're having very many hetrosexuals practicing unhygenic behavior (and probably not by any fault of their own, but rather the lack of access to any sort of health care).

If everyone is performing hygenie, then yes, we are all basically "equally at risk" (ie, the risk would be very low, if not non-existant).

[WindRavenX]

20. look at this site

http://www.unifem-eseasia.org/Resources/GenderAids/genderaids2a.htm

90% of new HIV infections in Europe and Asia are from heterosexual sex.

[joshcryer]

23. Hmm, that site does concur with half of what he said, tho.

During unprotected vaginal intercourse, an HIV-positive man is at least twice as likely to transmit the virus to an uninfected woman as an HIV-positive woman is to infect her male partner.

[WindRavenX]

27. Yes but...

...we're losing sight of the whole point of this thread :)
Again, any type of unprotected sex is risky. The conclusion may be that if you're straight, odds/facts may be that you are at a lesser risk of contracting the disease, but that doesn't mean you're immune. The comment that Moammar Gadhafi made was simply false and will increase unprotected sexual contact- "If you are straight, you have nothing to fear from AIDS". This is simply false. If you are straight and have unprotected sex, you may be at LESS of a risk, but you are STILL AT A RISK.
I'm kinda through debating who's more likely to get HIV- because it doesn't really matter in the context of what was said. Unprotected sex is still risky, and that's why the comment by Gadhafi is disturbing.
Whew.

[joshcryer]

32. Oh, I quite obviously agree with you there.

That's why I made the comment about health care (I believe contraceptives and STD protection are part of health care). The basic point we get from this thread, is that obviously the less health care you have, and the less you're able or willing to take care of basic hygine, the more likely you are to get an STD. Gadhafi's comment is obviously false, and I agree that it could lead to much worse cases of AIDS, especially if other STDs aren't checked in the processes of these people thinking that hetrosexual relationships are the cureall.

[Ediacara]

31. which is not anything anybody denied

He claimed that straight sex doesn't transmit HIV except in extremely rare cases. That's BS!

[WindRavenX]

35. Sorry it's late...

..my brain isn't working anymore.
I hope I can dig up some more stats another time, because the HIV infection rate for heterosexuals IS now making the majority of new HIV cases in America- I read that somewhere, and now it's pissing me off that I can't remember where. x(
Anyhow, goodnight.

[joshcryer]

36. I know.

But to a first worlder with lots of health care and so on and so forth, several STDs and open sores and or whatever would be an extremely rare thing. Obviously in Asia it's not rare.

[codeword]

24. Sorry, I couldn't find anything about Europe on the site you cite.

Only about 3rd world countries--particularly in Asia--which have the same innoculation-vaccination transmission problem as Africa, and where, as in Africa, treatment of other STDs is inadequate, leaving open sores in genital areas, which raise susceptibility to AIDS transmission.

[joshcryer]

28. Yeah, it's regarding East and Southeast Asia only.

He must have been mistaken.

Note that because the health care isn't as good, doesn't mean hetrosexual transmission isn't taking place or something magical like that. At most it would mean that if you had good health care, hetrosexual transmission would be less likely (by the same token, if you had good health care, homosexual tramission would be less likely- which is a no-brainer, really).

[joshcryer]

21. Hmm, I somewhat concur with what you're saying.

But I think that you're wrong in saying that getting anal sex is more dangerous than vaganil with regards to the transmittablity of AIDS. How it is, I believe, is that females can get aids easily from either anal or vagnial penetration. It's that men have a hard time getting AIDS if all they're doing is transferring fluid to the female and not vice versa, and anal sex with other men is one way to easily transmit those fluids.

[codeword]

26. You are right about the male-female transmission asymmetry.

But it is also true that vaginal sex is way less likely to transmit the virus than anal, for the reason I have given. The veins of the anus are much closer to the surface.

[Ediacara]

29. WHERE

is the data that support this? Anything in peer-reviewed journals, or is it just in a non-reviewed book with the word "myth" in the title (not a good sign for good science).

[codeword]

42. Look, I gave you a source.

Which is more than you did for me. That source contains references to peer-reviewed scientific studies, and builds a powerful case to explain the one fact which you are unable to explain, namely the non-appearance of a heterosexual AIDS epidemic in the US.

If you don't want to read the book, check out the author's web site:

http://www.fumento.com/pozaids.html

[Ediacara]

46. wow

how increadibly lacking in data that site is! And how much vitriol too!

Look, I can write a book full of BS and site thousands of peer reviewed articles. Because neither my book nor his book is peer-reviewed makes me doubt its actual scientific value.

ON EDIT: links have been provided.

[Chryslin]

59. OK - here's my source - ME

I am a former trainer with Planned Parenthood on birth control and AIDS transmission. Your assertion that the blood vessels in the rectum are closer to the surface than in the vagina is crap. I want you to source the sources in your book. The vagina is pure mucous membrain - VERY easy to penetrate, whereas rectally there needs to be a tear.

Yes, it's true that it's much easier to transmit AIDS to a woman than to a man. But it sounds to me like there's a TINY bit of an agenda in this book in it's eagerness to throw blame on the homosexual activity.


QUOTE: * Activities That Allow HIV Transmission

Unprotected sexual contact
Direct blood contact, including injection drug needles, blood transfusions, accidents in health care settings or certain blood products
Mother to baby (before or during birth, or through breast milk)
Sexual intercourse (vaginal and anal): In the genitals and the rectum, HIV may infect the mucous membranes directly or enter through cuts and sores caused during intercourse (many of which would be unnoticed). Vaginal and anal intercourse is a high-risk practice.

Oral sex (mouth-penis, mouth-vagina): The mouth is an inhospitable environment for HIV (in semen, vaginal fluid or blood), meaning the risk of HIV transmission through the throat, gums, and oral membranes is lower than through vaginal or anal membranes. There are however, documented cases where HIV was transmitted orally, so we can't say that getting HIV-infected semen, vaginal fluid or blood in the mouth is without risk. However, oral sex is considered a low risk practice.

Sharing injection needles: An injection needle can pass blood directly from one person's bloodstream to another. It is a very efficient way to transmit a blood-borne virus. Sharing needles is considered a high-risk practice.

Mother to Child: It is possible for an HIV-infected mother to pass the virus directly before or during birth, or through breast milk. Breast milk contains HIV, and while small amounts of breast milk do not pose significant threat of infection to adults, it is a viable means of transmission to infants.



SOURCE --- AIDS.ORG

[Paschall]

41. Nonsense

Differential infection rates from differing points of infection have little to do with the depth or proximity of the blood system. The differences are primarily due to the physical (viscosity) and chemical (pH) particularities of the mucous. Oral and vaginal mucous is much thicker and more protective than anal mucous.

[codeword]

43. That's only part of the reason.

I stand by my claim. But yes, the rates of infection are differential.

[FlaGranny]

56. I'm not sure anyone has actually

measured the distance of blood vessels from the surface comparing the anus and vagina (they may have), codeword, but you are forgetting that woman have a uterus which is EXTREMELY rich in blood vessels and from which there is a monthly blood flow. The vagina is much more of a size that would prevent minute tears (as opposed to the anus) that would allow the virus to pass through to the circulatory system, BUT, that doesn't take into account the uterus, which is probably the mode of entry for most females.

[Paschall]

37. Uh

"Receptive anal intercourse" (aka sodomy) is a form of heterosexual activity when practiced by a man and a woman.

The CDC's latest report on AIDS says, Approximately 75 percent of the (11,082) new female cases involved women contracting the disease through heterosexual sex.

The CDC AIDS Surveillance Report for 2001 also shows that, among women living with HIV, almost 50 percent more of them were infected through heterosxual contact (45,128) than from IV drug use (29,145). Heterosexual contact has been the leading source of infection among women in the US since 1995.

Get on page.

[joshcryer]

39. Ahh, check it.

The numbers follow Asia quite well, with regards to how many men get AIDS from hetrosexual contact verses women. Just as I figured.

[Ediacara]

40. THANKS

I know I read all these data in the papers during the 2000 conference in Durbin.... Finding them in a pinch though, that's hard LOL.

[codeword]

45. Of course

(a)I never said that anal sex was not practiced by heterosexuals.

(b)I never said that women could not get HIV from vaginal sex with men. It's just much more unlikely. On the average, woman has to have vaginal sex with an HIV positive man hundreds of time to become infected. But ANYONE, male or female, engaging in receptive anal intercourse with such a person, has about one chance in seven of getting it.

(c) I refuse to engage in a game of insults with you, so I will not comment on your "Get on page" remark.

[Ediacara]

47. uh, not so fast

a) true, yet you implied they didn't in comments re:b)

b) you said, and I quote:

Straights almost never get AIDS unless they are injected with dirty needles, as happened in Africa due to the filthy system of innoculation and vaccination in African countries.

This is BS, as is your statement that women "have vaginal sex with an HIV positive man hundreds of time to become infected."

c) if you lay in with the BS, expect to get a sour welcome

[codeword]

48. You have not shown that my claims are "BS."

You simply repeat familiar bromides without giving reasons.

I think you need to do something about controlling your temper.

[Ediacara]

51. oh that's right, sorry

All of modern (peer reviewed experimental) medicine is wrong and your maveric snarky (non-peer reviewed no data that I could find) hero is right.

And yet you think that I have to show how he's wrong?

YOU sir, made the extraordinary claims, YOU sir, must provide evidence aside from the factless snark-page you linked to.

[coralrf]

61. Classic!!!!

Criticize the language used when what is said cannot be argued against.

It’s obvious to me...a man with a medical background, that you have little ability to separate your prejudices from the minimal knowledge you posses on this subject.

You have chosen to ignore links to accredited internationally accepted data that is in absolute conflict with the bogus hype you are posting here. Please...if you can not take it Mr. Pug...do not dish it out.

[Paschall]

50. May I ask you for a link to back up this claim?

On the average, woman has to have vaginal sex with an HIV positive man hundreds of time to become infected.

[Ediacara]

52. don't bother waiting

asking about that is "a familiar bromide" and codeword can't be bothered with providing data because he's right and we're wrong.

[Paschall]

53. No, you said

Then why are there almost NO examples of heterosexual aids in the US? Except for IV drug users, contaminated blood supply victims, or women who practice receptive anal intercourse.

According to the CDC, in 2001 there were 362,827 people living with HIV in the US. Heterosexual contact was the source of 71,788 of those infections, or almost 20 percent, with--as I've indicated elsewhere--a much higher percentage of women being affected.

Twenty percent is hardly "no examples."

Among those newly diagnosed with AIDS in 2001, heterosexual contact accounted for 16 percent, or some 6,904 cases.

AIDS deaths in 2001 totalled 15,603. Heterosexual contact was the exposure risk in 3,355 (21%) of those deaths.

[GermanDJ]

25. Why does this comment get so much attention?

I'm pretty sure that religious fanatics - like the leaders of Saudi Arabia for example - make a lot more stupid remarks about sexuality or gay/lesbian relationships. And before I give this report any attention I would rather conduct some cross-checking with reliable sources.
I mean, maybe it was meant as a joke or maybe the remark was taken out of context.

Or maybe it was just a stupid remark? Who knows.
And besides, I would be more interested about the results of this conference rather than reading about anecdotes. I could imagine that Gadhafi and the other African leaders had more profound things to say than this. The rest of the quote sounds to me like a word-for-word translation of the rather bloomy Arabic language, an approach which never really works too well. Some Arabic comments sound gross to Western ears, but are not really meant like this.

[joshcryer]

33. Um, because people look to their leaders for guidence.

And this particular leader isn't being very helpful at all, because he's pretending as if the cure for AIDS is a moral thing when it's really about hygine.

[GermanDJ]

44. I'm very sceptic

I don't believe in news reports which deliver mostly comments. I'm a sceptic :)

And I wonder what exactly Mr. G meant when he said (IF he said) "All you have to do is observe the rules"?
Did he mean straight people don't have to fear AIDS when they follow the rules and use a condom? Then I would agree with him. That's what I learned in school as well!

[leQ]

49. i had a newspaper clipping of him in drag

back when i lived in new york - i think it was the post. it'd be a hoot to find it somewhere on the web.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[M155Y_A1CH]

58. Evolution?

I'm not real sure how to take your Darwin comment but...
The lesbian community must be the most evolved of all.
They are the only group who need not worry about HIV infection.

[aquart]

57. So expect how many in his country to die because of this idiocy?

Lock up the two year old virgins.

[Nikia]

60. Many Africans are at increased risk

In Africa, female genital mutilation is practiced. Females may have open wounds from this practice or irritation during sex from these wounds. In cultures that do not value female sexuality, sex is drier and rougher, increasing the risk of vaginal tearing. Also, as mentioned before, being infected with another STD greatly increases the risk of heterosexual transmission.