Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his Irish links

[DoYouEverWonder]

Tapestry artist reveals ancestors of US president as murderous bunch

Angelique Chrisafis, Ireland correspondent
Thursday January 27, 2005
The Guardian

It is perhaps not the best omen for US foreign affairs. Local historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant of Strongbow, the power-hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion of Ireland thus heralding 800 years of mutual misery.

With a long line of Scots Irish presidents including Woodrow Wilson, the Irish are normally quick to claim US leaders as their own. But, despite President Bush's large Ulster Scots vote in the American Bible belt, Ireland had let his family escape the genealogical microscope.

<snip>

"It is one of those bizarre developments," she said. "We traced the Bush genealogy through a Republican source in Chicago and found it was correct. People here are absolutely shocked. I'm not sure what the wider reaction will be, Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish."

Indeed, when Mr Bush visited a County Clare castle last year, radio talk-show hosts asked: "Is this the most hated American ever to set foot on Irish soil?"

The US president's now apparent ancestor, Richard de Clare, Earl of Pembroke - known as Strongbow for his arrow skills - is remembered as a desperate, land-grabbing warlord whose calamitous foreign adventure led to the suffering of generations. Shunned by Henry II, he offered his services as a mercenary in the 12th century invasion of Wexford in exchange for power and land. When he eventually died of a festering ulcer in his foot, his enemies said it was the revenge of Irish saints whose shrines he had violated.

more...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1399334,00.html

[KissMeKate]

1. it figures.

jagoff.

[RandomKoolzip]

2. One word-phrase in your post summed it up for me:

"Festering Ulcer."

[yardwork]

4. wow

[sendero]

47. Is that code for...

... "Uncle Fester"? You decide. :)

[grasswire]

3. it gets worse as the article goes on....

The genetic line can also be traced to Dermot MacMurrough, the Gaelic king of Leinster reviled in history books as the man who sold Ireland for personal gain.

Even before MacMurrough earned the title of Ireland's worst traitor by inviting Strongbow's invasion to save himself from a local feud, the Irish chieftain had a reputation for gore. One English chronicler told how MacMurrough, recognising the features of a personal enemy poking from a pile of severed heads after a battle, snatched up the rotting flesh and tore it with his teeth in a "hideous frenzy".

[yorkiemommie1]

5. well, now

his ancestors must be mighty proud of him carrying on the family tradition....

[NYC]

6. Selling America for personal gain.

The genetic line can also be traced to Dermot MacMurrough, the Gaelic king of Leinster reviled in history books as the man who sold Ireland for personal gain.

History repeats itself.

[yorkiemommie1]

9. maybe bush is

dermot reincarnated!

[Cha]

12. bush is the man who sold America

down the river for personal gain.

I never would have thought of bush as Irish, though.

What kind of name is bush?

[NYC]

22. Take the money and run.

That is his motto.

http://genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/b/bl_name-BUSH.htm

Definition: 1) Dweller near a bush or a thicket of bushes, from the Middle English bushe, meaning "bush." 2) Dweller at the sign of a bush (usually a wine merchant).

Surname Origin: English

Alternate Surname Spellings: BUSCH, BISH, BYSH, BYSSHE, BUSCHER, BOSCHE

There are some more links you can click on that page.

[Cha]

57. Thanks! Nothing against Germany

but I always thought "bush" was a derivative of the Germanic language.

[Pirate Smile]

7. I knew it. My Irish blood has always had a particularly negative reaction

to the man. The bastards!

[mordarlar]

53. lol i agree my hatred of him is pretty primal.

[PartyPooper]

8. Junior is also related to Edward II AKA "Longshanks"

The scourge of the Scots. (1307-1327)

I've always believed Junior's hubris and bravado was is in his genes. His grandfather, Prescott, was a friend of Hitler and a Nazi profiteer.

This proves it further.

[Liberty Belle]

10. Let's all send this around for St. Patrick's Day, lads & lassies.

It would make a fine feature for all those editors looking for some Irish stories around March 17th!:toast:

[NYC]

11. What a wonderful idea!

:hi:

[CBHagman]

13. No wonder the Irish demonstrated against him.

Though I must admit that for once, the Irish and the British agreed on something the past couple of years: A visit by George W. Bush meant it was time to protest.

[newscott]

14. You guys will love this.

My wife is a distant cousin of *. I like to tease here about it from time to time. :evilgrin:

[PartyPooper]

19. I feel sorry for you both!

There's another DU'er who is related to Junior, too.

:-(

[CBHagman]

61. I'm sorry for your trouble and hers.

:cry:

[wildflower]

15. Did you know Bush is also related to Kerry? (9th cousins, twice removed)

Bush, Kerry & Hefner: Odd Cousins

snip

Millisecond Publishing's massive database collects family trees of notable figures. According to their research, the shared ancestors of both men are Thomas and Welthian Richards of Weymouth, Mass., early 17th century Plymouth Colony residents who were some of the original Pilgrims, emigrants from England.

The Richards' daughter Mary married Thomas Hinckley, governor of the Plymouth Colony, and through their son, Samuel, they are the ancestors of President Bush. Their daughter Anna married Captain Ephraim Hunt, and through their son Thomas they are the ancestors of Kerry.

Through the same lineage, both men are linked to Gen. Douglas MacArthur and President Franklin D. Roosevelt; even infamous traitor Benedict Arnold and attempted presidential assassin John Hinckley Jr., have thick enough blue-blood roots to call themselves relations. The two candidates also have very distant links to Princess Diana and President George Washington.

Kerry's most quirky relation is Johnny Appleseed. Yes, there really was a Johnny Appleseed. Kerry and Appleseed are sixth cousins. Appleseed, whose real name was John Chapman, was born in 1774 and made a name for himself as a naturalist traveling the country for 50 years, growing, of course, apple trees among other things.

more at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/politics/main604163.shtml

[ally_sc]

49. it is amazing how when yoiu go back for generations

who you were related to...i have heard this before, but it is good to finally see the article.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, eh?

[PartyPooper]

17. Nope. It doesn't.

[dflprincess]

18. The Kennedy's were from County Wexford

Let's send this to Ted - or maybe he already knows this and is speaking up to settle some very old scores.

I recall reading once about John, Bobby and Ted ending a campaign rally on the eve of an election (can't remember if it was when John was running for the House or Senate) by singing a rendition of "The Boys of Wexford".

A couple lines from the song:

"We are the boys of Wexford who fought with heart and hand
To burst in twain the galling chain and free our native land."

"And, if for want of leaders we lost at Vinegaa Hill
We're ready for another fight and love our country still."

[librechik]

56. wow

that sent a chill. My husband, the anthropologist, has often compared the Bushes to the Normans, with their main fiefdom in Texas.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. It sounds like tyranny runs in the family

It goes back generations before Prescott Bush.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. Shades of Chalabi and Chimpy.

Within a year Diarmait had his throne back in Dublin. But he also now had an army of Anglo-Normans who weren't about to go away now that the job was done. In fact, from the beginning, Diarmait had known this. He not only expected but wanted the likes of Strongbow to stick around, lest his old enemies get ideas of booting him out again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/nations/ireland_invasion_03.shtml

[leftchick]

23. who knew tyranny and killing could be genetic?

and the Trampling of shrines? Najaf certainly qualifies. My dumbow** fester as well.

[dbt]

24. When did St. Patrick drive the snakes out of Ireland again?

If you allow for the time it took them to swim the Atlantic, you'd have an approximation of when the first bu$h ancestor slithered onto the shores of the New World.

:evilgrin:
dbt

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. I think you're right

I always wondered how those snakes got here.

[kskiska]

25. Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his Irish links

Tapestry artist reveals ancestors of US president as murderous bunch


It is perhaps not the best omen for US foreign affairs. Local historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant of Strongbow, the power-hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion of Ireland thus heralding 800 years of mutual misery.

With a long line of Scots Irish presidents including Woodrow Wilson, the Irish are normally quick to claim US leaders as their own. But, despite President Bush's large Ulster Scots vote in the American Bible belt, Ireland had let his family escape the genealogical microscope.

(snip)

"It is one of those bizarre developments," she said. "We traced the Bush genealogy through a Republican source in Chicago and found it was correct. People here are absolutely shocked. I'm not sure what the wider reaction will be, Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish."

(snip)

The US president's now apparent ancestor, Richard de Clare, Earl of Pembroke - known as Strongbow for his arrow skills - is remembered as a desperate, land-grabbing warlord whose calamitous foreign adventure led to the suffering of generations. Shunned by Henry II, he offered his services as a mercenary in the 12th century invasion of Wexford in exchange for power and land. When he eventually died of a festering ulcer in his foot, his enemies said it was the revenge of Irish saints whose shrines he had violated.

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1399353,00.html

[Warpy]

26. My granny was from Wexford

No wonder I have such an intense and visceral dislike of that whole family.

[hootinholler]

27. "Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish"

I doubt Strongbow was seen as a friend either.

walks off humming Small World.

-Hoot

[Dover]

28. Surely not! Strongbow must have had a stupid twin named Dumbow...

which through the centuries was carried forward to the current George Dumbya.

[caligirl]

29. You have a gift with words.

[Dover]

31. Well thanks. I guess that's because I'm a descendent of Henry

WORDSworth Longfellow....

[MADem]

38. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need a well-paying job writing for a late-night comedian...that was fucking PRICELESS!!!!

Kudos, kudos, kudos, I bow before your wit!!! I envy it, indeed!!! BRAVO!!!!

[Dover]

39. Surely you indigest!

Jest? Not one wit.

[earth mom]

40. LMAO! n/t

[Bridget Burke]

48. Every old family tree had a few weak branches.....

[roguevalley]

60. If memory serves me, the body of this strongbow can be found

mummified in a church crypt in Dublin. Its one of those strange things each city is famous for. I wish I could remember more. I will look it up. Google should find it.

[caligirl]

30. Strongbow may have started it but William of Orange finished it I!

[aquart]

32. Finished what? Ended the misery?

Who's William related to? Did he have kids? If he didn't, why are you bringing him up?

[caligirl]

37. I should learn to keep my mouth shut. But William is King William of

of England(German roots though) who defeated the Irish after Strongbow went to war against them . It may have been a long time later but I'm not sure. The King George's were descendents of King William.

I brought it up because it was a stray thought which gets me in trouble.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. Too many mistakes in your history to let that go

William of Orange was Dutch (and Protestant), and a nephew of the Catholic English king James II. He was also married to James' daughter, Mary. With the agreement of the English Parliament, he deposed James, and became joint ruler with Mary. James was also king of Ireland, and raised an army there with the view of taking back his throne. William defeated them, in Ireland.

William and Mary had no children (and none of Anne's children (Mary's sister, who succeeded William as English monarch) survived infancy). The Georges were from the German house of Hannover, and descended from James VI of Scotland/I of England (James II's grandfather).

This was all about 500 years after Strongbow.

[aquart]

64. King William III 1650-1702

One-half of the famed William and Mary. Born in the Hague, heir to Orange, a principality on the Rhone, near Avignon. He was grandson to Charles I of England thru his mother, Mary.

He also married a Mary, his cousin, eldest daughter of James, Duke of York, brother of Charles II of England and later James II.

NO descendants. Succeeded by his cousin and sister-in-law, Anne. Anne also left no heir.

The Georges, of the House of Hanover, claimed the throne thru Elizabeth, daughter of James I of England. They did not descend from William, but from a line further up the Stuart tree.

See, that's who I thought you meant. Strongbow showed up in Ireland in 1170, so, yes, it was a good bit earlier.

[bain_sidhe]

33. So, invading countries runs in the family, huh? n/t

[NVMojo]

34. apparently greed runs in the family, too!

[leftchick]

45. and slaughtering thousands of people...

trampling shrines as well. Najaf anyone? Good lord, his evil is genetic!

[Straight Shooter]

35. He isn't just the descendant, he's the reincarnation of "Strongbow"

And he's meaner than he was the first time around. Apparently that festering ulcer afflicts him in the brain in this lifetime.

[daleo]

36. Stongbow died of a "festering ulcer".

BFEE is a festering ulcer on American democracy, and the world in general. So, it fits.

[starroute]

41. Yet another absurdly idiotic genealogy story!

It's not exactly a secret that almost anybody with any claim to British aristocratic ancestors -- which includes a huge number of Americans -- is descended from Richard "Strongbow" de Clare and Eve of Leinster.

Their daughter Isabel married William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, one of the greatest figures of the age of chivalry. Isabel and William had five daughters, all of whom married leading English noblemen and had many children of their own. My husband -- thanks to a very ordinary bunch of New England colonial ancestors -- is descended from them many times over. So is the British royal family.

One of their great-grandsons married Joan of Acre, daughter of King Edward I. According to my notes, they were ancestors of both George H.W. Bush and Walt Disney. Two other descendents who intermarried several generations later were ancestors of both George H.W. Bush and Franklin Roosevelt. Barbara Bush has multiple lines of descent from them as well. And none of this is anything bizarre or even particularly noteworthy.

So either those "local historians in Wexford" are terribly naive, or they're pulling the credulous Americans' leg.

[SweetLeftFoot]

44. Irish geneaologists

would NEVER dupe a credulous American ... especially not if money was involved.

[montana_hazeleyes]

42. I don't know why

those people are so shocked, bush** sounds just like that guy.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leesa]

50. Some things never change, eh? Except for the warrior part, of course.

Bush would probably strangle himself with a bow.

[cap]

51. but you notice a dead stop to the Irish peace accords...

with this story, bush has no credibility to do anything; either side will start bringing this up.

[robcon]

55. Half of Ireland is related to the Norman conquerors.

cap wrote: "but you notice a dead stop to the Irish peace accords...
with this story, bush has no credibility to do anything; either side will start bringing this up."

Huh? Are you saying the Irish have not fully and completely assimilated the Normans?

Most of the blonds/redheads (Celts are usually dark-haired), all the Fitz's, the Walshes (the most common last name in Ireland), all the Roches, etc. are descendants of the Normans, and are fully assimilated into Ireland. As a descendant of Nicholas de Caunteton (from Wales) who landed in Ireland 3 years after Strongbow, I take issue with the assumed negative aspect of being related to the Normans.

It's the Kings/Queens/parliaments of England that suppressed the Irish people - the Irish-speaking Celts/Vikings, and later the English-speaking Normans who mostly did not convert to Anglicanism after the Protestant Reformation, alike.

The Protestants of Northern Ireland have nothing to do with the Normans. The descendants of the Normans were/are overwhelmingly Catholic, as are the descendants of the Celts and Vikings.

[fedsron2us]

59. The Normans conquered England in 1066

William the Bastard seized the English crown and parcelled out most of the land in the country to his followers. No Anglo-Saxon has sat on the throne since that date. All the English kings who formulated and carried out the seizure of Irish land were of Norman descent.

[robcon]

54. It sounds like the typical denunciation of Strongbow.

In the Republic of Ireland, second only to Dermot McMurrough (the Irish clan leader who invited the English to Ireland to settle a land dispute that McMurrough had lost) you are supposed to hate, and spit at the mention, of Strongbow. He will never be forgiven because the landing at Wexford began the English domination of Ireland that lasted almost 750 years.

It's the usual oversimplification of history.

[LibertyLover]

58. I refuse . . .

to admit that carbuncle on the American body politic has Irish ancestry. But of course, Strongbow was Norman and you know what they say about Normans? Scratch one and find a Viking. And the Gods know Bush certainly loves foreign adventures that promise monetary gain (or as a friend of mine likes to say about Vikings - they were pre-emptive salvage experts.)

Damn, that's how my family in Ireland got started, courtesy of Geoffrey d'Nangle who was one of the first Normans to marry into an Irish family.

[happyslug]

62. YOU TOO ARE A DESCENDANT FROM STRONGBOW.

Many decades ago it was calculated that everyone is within 42 degrees of each other (i.e. you CAN not be more than the 42nd Cousin in George Bush AND Saddam Hussein). It has been 8 centuries since the 1200s when Strongbow lived. 8 centuries times 4 generation per centuries you have 32 DEGREES (If you want to assume 20 years for a generation instead of 25 years per generation there ha been 40 Generations since 1200).

My point is almost everyone living today has a VERY good chance that one of his ancestor was Strongbow. If you go back to the time of the Conquest (1066 AD) the numbers are 40 and 50 degrees of Relations. Now these "Numbers" are subject to errors, it may be possible for someone to trace ALL of his ancestor and find out that he or she is NOT descendant from Strongbow (or anyone else who lived and had children 800 years ago) but I would guess the odds are less than 100 to 1. The odds of NOT have Strongbow as your ancestor is probably greater among Chinese Peasants than any other group given the English control of India during the 1800 (and the intermarrying between English and Indians in the 1700 and 1800s), the European Control of Africa in the late 1800s (and intermarrying between the Colonials and natives). A second group of non-descendants may be some Amazonian Tribes (who did not intermarry with other tribes, a rarity even there). The only other group may be the Persian (Independent during the Colonial period) but even there I have questions (Relating to intermarrying with the Turks in Turkey and the Tribes now residing in the newly independent countries of the Former Soviet Union just north of today's Iran).

At the same time almost all of us are descendent's of people who fought on BOTH sides of the Crusades, Cortes's conquest of Mexico, and any other Butcher you can think of that lived before Cortez (and probably most of the Butchers who lived before Napoleon. Most people can trace at least an oral history of any real bad ancestor for the eight generation since Napoleon (Which could be up to 32 people alive at the time of Napoleon, through some of those ancestors my be the same).

My point is who cares who was Bush's ancestor 800 years ago, chances are that ancestor was my (and yours) also. Lets look at the last 100 years, for it is what his family has done in the last three to four generations that has made Bush THINK the way he does today, Strongbow has no more affect on how Bush thinks than Strongbow has on how I or you think today.

[grasswire]

63. he has Scottish ties too, although not family

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20010718LittleBoCreep.html

more at the link.......mods, if you are concerned about copyright, PM me, please. Permission is available.


It turns out that the story of W's boyhood days in dusty, dull Midland -- just a-ridin' his bicycle to the Roy Rogers matinees and a-playin' street games with the other kids -- isn't the whole story.

George spent summers herding sheep on a Scottish farm.

Wouldn't you think that the spinners and shapers would weave this bit of color into his biography? Weren't there life lessons learned as he pulled a lamb from the slobbering jaws of a wolf? Or perhaps he determined to do great things while watching the clouds form over the heath? Couldn't he have learned the value of the green earth and hard work and couldn't they have really, really milked the images? Wasn't there a photo of him in his little herder's pants with a staff and a couple of lambs leaning against his sturdy legs and a chorus of "Brigadoon" in his heart?

Why was this fairly important and definitely colorful part of his past omitted?

A little web surfing brings a clue to us.

The sheep farm in Perthshire, Scotland, belonged to a James Gammell. "Jimmy" was Scotland's most connected elitist financier, and an early partner in Zapata Oil. Zapata Oil, readers may know, is the early aggressive venture of George Herbert Walker Bush and his cronies, and reported to have had CIA involvement. "Operation Zapata" was also the CIA's code name for intelligence operations against Cuba.

Little George's first visit to Perthshire occurred in the same year that Fidel Castro seized power -- 1959. George was 13, and he delighted in the acceptance the Gammell family gave him, and recently told a London Times reporter about being mistaken by Texas tourists for a local lad:

"I was assigned to take a sheep from one pasture to
another and this tour bus stops and they all get out
and this woman says: 'Oh, look at the little
Scottish boy,' in this Texas accent," Mr Bush said
with a broad grin. “Of course, I kept my mouth shut
and gave them a little Scottish boy wave."

Adorable!

Isn't that a parable for George's political rise? He's delighted about being mistaken for a Scottish sheepherder, when in truth he was a little rich kid mixing with other little rich kids on the farm of the man who did bidness on a level with kings and queens and potentates, and when in truth the whole history of the Bushes in America is one of cronyism and predatory elitism, if not outright graft.

(Incidentally, the son of the Gammell family, Bill, turns out to have gone to school in Edinburgh with Tony Blair. Perhaps Blair and Bush played Scottish boy on the farm and there's a deeper explanation to Bush's joke about toothpaste?)

[Orsino]

65. The common factor is economic, not genetic.

With enough money at stake, there will be those weak enough to commit all sorts of atrocities to get it. Wealth breeds this sort of weakness into all born to it.

[Maeve]

66. Strongbow died of a festering ulcer and his descendant IS one

Ah, well...we knew he was the son of something bad!

[noonwitch]

67. Too bad Henry II didn't kill deClare before he could breed

He had his one time friend (Becket) killed in the cathedral, the least he could have done is prevented the Bush family from ever being created.

Henry and his wife (Eleaonor of Aquitane) are two of my favorite historical figures, mostly because of the movie "The Lion In Winter", where they were played by Peter O'Toole and Katharine Hepburn. If you haven't seen it, rent it, it's one of the best movies ever made.

[shawn703]

68. Ugh, I'm related to Dubya?

Richard de Clare is in my lineage too. Maybe I'm lucky and there was a cuckold or two to keep me from sharing any of the same blood.