N. Georgia Preacher Found Guilty of Stealing From 100's of Black Churches

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBN2RD2X4E.html

ROME, Ga. (AP) - A preacher was found guilty Monday of stealing nearly $9 million from hundreds of small, black churches across the country.

Jurors in the Abraham Kennard case deliberated for only a few hours, after having to start over when one of the jurors fell ill. They had begun deliberating on Friday. snip

Kennard, who represented himself, countered he was not guilty of anything.

"It's not a law against riding in a Cadillac if you don't want to ride in a Volkswagen," Kennard said in his opening remarks. Michael Trost, who served as Kennard's standby counsel, said he believed Kennard intended to help the churches.

more

This guy had a fool for an attorney.

[liberal N proud]

1. He was just relieving them of all that corrupt dirty money

He was doing it to save them from the shame of thee sin from all thy money. The root of all evil.

[arcane1]

2. maybe he just needed the 10 commandments posted on his lawn

:eyes:

[gratuitous]

3. Hmmm, whaddya think?

An actual conviction on the charges might cost him a job in the corrupt Bush administration, but I suspect the MSNBC or Faux News will get into a bidding war to give Mr. Kennard his own show.

Or will he run for the Senate from Georgia?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

5. and this guy is supposed to be an expert on Jesus...

who said that rich men can't get into heaven, that his followers must give all their possessions to the poor, etc

I bet he never once used those verses in a sermon

[gratuitous]

6. Uhm . . . No.

The worker is worth his or her wage. Our teeny tiny congregation can't afford a full-time pastor, but we get more than our money's worth from him, and would gladly pay him a full-time salary if we could afford it. Our pastor is not a charlatan, huckster or snake-charmer, and our congregation is not "deluded."

Or are you saying that folks in the pastorate should go to seminary for several years on their own nickel, and when they graduate, not expect to be put in a remunerative position? (Not to mention professional development requirements; continuing education; mileage for visiting congregants, the sick and the incarcerated; ministerial conferences -- which aren't free; denominational meetings; maintain an office and staff it; and conduct weekly worship services.)

[Dhalgren]

10. Hey, give money to anyone you want to.

Where does Jesus recommend salaries for ministers? But it doesn't matter - if you want to pay someone for something and they are willing to provide the service for the fee, then more power to you. And one man's eternal salvation is another man's snake oil - potato/potahto...

[gratuitous]

11. You don't know a thing about it

Jesus talks quite often about ministers and other workers being worth their wage, and advocates often for not only spiritual but economic justice. Paul likewise, in his letters to the Corinthians is explicit about supporting the work of the ministers in their midst.

Apparently, your knowledge of the Bible is equal to your knowledge of what it takes to be a professional pastor or minister. It would probably behoove you to stick to subjects on which you have some expertise rather than a poorly-informed opinion.

[eallen]

12. I'm curious: Where does Jesus talk about ministers being worth their wage?

Not workers, but ministers specifically?

[sandnsea]

13. In addition

Paul talked about times when he worked so as not to show up someplace with his hand out. He set an example against these kinds of hucksters by doing that. The work wasn't just preaching and I'm sure your minister is just as likely to show up when you help somebody fix a porch as he is on Sunday. That's the difference.

[Dhalgren]

14. Your knowledge of the "Bible" has probably stood you in good

stead, lo these many years - no doubt. And refresh my memory (after all, I know nothing about the "Bible" and you know it so well); when the the followers of Jesus where sent out into the world to preach the "gospel" and spread the "good news", what was the fee they were instructed to ask for? But again, it doesn't matter, all of this is based on writings that almost no one adheres to any more. Point to an American who follows the teaching of Jesus, in almost any way Jesus, himself, would recognize? Right. And, again, this doesn't matter at all. This situation, and others like it, is a case of people within a community of "believers" who are "doing" unto each other. The flock expects to have to pay to be ministered to and the minister expects to be paid for his "ministry". If there is some fleecing of the flock, well, it won't be the first time, and it won't be the last.

And the real beauty of the "Bible" is that the more you know it and study it (in an academically sound manner, within a valid historical and literary context) the less likely "snake oil" is to surprise you.

One of my favorite books is the "Gospel of Peter", where Jesus and Christ are two different beings - oh, yeah, that book wasn't included into the "New Testament", but it still kicked ass...

[gratuitous]

15. Take your snake oil . . .

Okay, here we go. First, let me thank "Dhalgren" for starting off this discussion by calling me and like-minded people "deluded," which I note got his post pulled by the mods. But let's get to the heart of the matter, and that is just compensation for work done, because it seems to escape any number of people that a professional minister is worth being paid.

Does Jesus talk in detail about a professional ministry? Not surprisingly, no. Now, why would that be? Could it be because at that time, there were no churches, no institutional gatherings of believers, or is it because Jesus didn't think workers were worth a wage? I will assert the former, as against the latter, which is the position that's been taken.

So, what does Jesus say about compensation for religious professionals? In Matthew 10:40-42, there is a clear commandment to receive and welcome prophets, and a promise of reward for giving even so little as a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple. If there is a blessing to be had for such a small consideration, what greater blessing is available to supporters of ministers -- prophets and disciples?

During Jesus' hard words against the religious leaders of his time, the scribes and the Pharisees, he tells people to listen to the leaders, but not to act like them (Matthew 23:1-3), because they do not practice what they preach. Significantly for this discussion, Jesus never says that these religious professionals shouldn't be paid even when they aren't acting righteously.

In a similar fashion, Jesus again and again talks about just compensation for services performed, and even about unjust compensation. The parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16) I think rather encapsulates this entire discussion. Jesus' conclusion to the story sums up nicely my own conclusion: "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?"

Evidently, the generosity of congregations is an embarrassment to some; and rather than being generous themselves, they take the occasion to denigrate and denounce the generosity they see. While I am at pains not to be publicly pious, this discussion has forced the issue. Last Sunday, we hosted a Souper Bowl party for 28 people from our congregation, in which we assembled more than 600 soup packets for the poor and the needy in our community, to take with them for free from Snow-Cap, our local neighbors helping neighbors agency. What did you do on Sunday?

Far from assembling solely to serve our own good or interest, our congregation is involved many eleeomosynary works, from hurricane relief in Honduras, to flood relief in Vernonia, Oregon and the Skagit Valley in Washington (that is to say, near AND far from our congregation's base). We march in the streets for gay rights and against war, we sponsor visits to the Gwi'chen, the indigenous people who live near the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, to understand their culture and advocate for keeping that area free from the extractive industries that will destroy it. We write our Senators and Representatives on behalf of the Gwi'chen people, and have organized a national campaign to show videotapes of the people that will be affected by the proposed drilling in the ANWR.

We gather as a body because one person alone can't possibly do all of these things (and this is, believe me, a short list of our congregation's activities), but by pooling our time, treasure and talent, we are able to have an impact far greater than the mere sum of our constituents. Above all of this, we need a modicum of organization, and toward that end, we have hired a pastor to coordinate and oversee activities, as well as hold weekly worship services. Our pastor works many hours beyond what he is paid to do, working in and around our congregation, as well as in the wider denomination and as our representative in the community. He has a Master's degree, and as a requirement for his credentials as a minister has to engage in professional growth through classes, retreats, meetings and seminars.

I don't see that anyone has said that we ought not to use our resources as we see fit; however, the tone -- and it's a common one here at DU -- is that people in faith communities are self-absorbed groups interested only in their own continued existence. It's not true, and at least for myself, I'm getting a bit tired of the rote bashing of faith groups particularly by folks who clearly don't know what they're talking about.

[Dhalgren]

16. As I said before,

the problem with ministers bilking their flocks is an internal matter between the shepherd and his flock. There have always been charlatans among the shepherds and there always will be. The problem you seem to be having is that I won't take your mythology seriously as real-life truth. I admit that your mythology has a great deal of power and influence in the world and that people who believe in the reality of this (and other) mythologies can have a huge influence on the lives and liberties of everyone (that is a fact of modern life). What I don't understand is why you are so defensive about your avowed beliefs. If I say I believe the earth rides upon the back of a giant turtle and you say, "That's ridiculous!" - why should that make me upset? If I know the Truth and you can not recognize it, that would make me pity you, not become angry with you. If I show little respect of your "religious" beliefs, so what? Why should you care?

And I agree with you, many ministers earn their livings - I mean, look how hard David Koresh and Jim Jones worked. Sorry...

[gratuitous]

20. Hardly . . .

You started off with the broad brush, name-calling and demanding proof texts. I've demonstrated pretty clearly that your name-calling was inappropriate, intemperate and wrong. I've brought before you the proof you demanded, and now you've suddenly changed your tune.

I'm glad to see that you've backed off your broad brush nonsense that all ministers are frauds and all faith communities are deluded. As for your insulting and condescending tone, I hardly see how that advances your position, but each to his own.

Why have I bothered with this matter? I don't rightly know. It seems to irk you that someone has stood up for his beliefs; I make no assertion about why that is, but the conclusion to Jesus' parable about the laborers and vineyard sounds about right to me.

I suppose I've grown weary of taking abuse and ridicule from repressive types who declaim stridently on topics of which they're ignorant, taking advantage of incidents like the one in Georgia to make blanket statements condemning whole segments of the population, particularly those of which I'm a part. It's tough enough in the present political climate to build community locally and globally without having to deal as well with unfounded, empty-headed assertions, particularly in venues where folks are supposed to know better (and no, that doesn't necessarily mean DU).

[Dhalgren]

22. If anyone is sounding "irked" and doing the "name calling"

it is you. I think that any time some one sets them self up as the religious leader of a "flock" there is charlatanism afoot - regardless of the sincerity of the minister. Now, if this "minister" is simply a "custodian" for a group then fine. But if he claims to have been "called by God" or some such thing, then it's snake oil time. I am sorry that you become so upset when someone points out that getting paid to do "god's will" is at least questionable. The difference between your minister and Jim Jones is one of degree, not kind. If this upsets you, I am sorry that it does, but if my Rain Maker actually made it rain it doesn't follow that the profession of Rain Making is therefore laudable.

Whenever you have no argument to defend yourself with, just shout "You don't know what you're talking about!" - it's what Bill O'Reilly would do. Thanks for the discourse filled with Christian charity. Oh, and since I am not a Christian, any charity displayed my me (granted, maybe none) was just my own brand. :hi:

[Garage Queen]

18. I have a friend who's a Methodist Minister

The Detroit congregation he worked with was so poor that he actually insisted to higher-ups that he be replaced with a part-time minister. He just didn't feel it was right that his salary took up 1/3 of the budget. (And he was a first-time minister, so it's not like he was making a lot.) They agreed, and now his old congregation shares a minister with another small congregation.

Part-time ministry is a good solution for churches too small and/or too small to support a full-time person on their own, especially now that a lot of religions have a shortage of ministers.

But for someone to take advantage of that and live high on the hog whilst their congregants are struggling to put food on their table? Yoiks. The man is *obviously* not a Man of God.

[KittyWampus]

8. IMO, Poverty Does Not Equal Piety. Everyone Comes Into Life With

different lessons to learn regarding material wealth and its relation to Emotional and Spiritual Security & Wellbeing.

[Tempest]

7. A future Bush "faith-based" recipient

You watch, we'll will end up funding him.

[cosmicdot]

9. "he always maintained faith that God would make it happen"

more Kennard background
(perhaps he should have used the Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell faith-based deluxe model - maybe diamond mines vs. non-existent Christian 'resorts') ...
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Witness: I'm now bankrupt

Rome News-Tribune, Jan. 14, 2005

Lauren Gregory, Rome News-Tribune Staff Writer


Pastor says he let faith carry him past doubts about Abraham Kennard’s program.

Two years ago, Pastor Billy Brooks was sure that God wanted him to join Network International Investment Corporation (aka Church Kingdom Investments, Ltd.; Life Outreach Worship; Safe Haven). But when the windfall of money he was promised never came, he told federal prosecutors Thursday, things changed.

In 2001, Brooks said he took out a loan on his car and used his credit cards to pay NIIC $9,000 in membership fees. Abraham Kennard, NIIC president and chief executive officer, promised Brooks that money flowing into the company from private investors would ensure he’d get more than $6 million back.

~snip~

Brooks, testifying for prosecutors in U.S. District Court in Rome on Thursday, said he understood back in 2001 and 2002 that profits from the 50 Christian resorts that NIIC was building in every state would mean even more money for members of the company’s “Church Funding Project.”

What he learned later, he said, was that there were no resorts and no investors — and therefore no money to claim on behalf of his struggling congregation.

~snip~

Brooks testified that during his membership he ended up signing off for six cars in NIIC’s name — five Cadillac Escalades worth between $56,700 and $86,900 and a Mercedes Benz Roadster worth $110,600 — that he couldn’t afford, all because Kennard believed his associates should “look prosperous.”


~snip~

http://religionnewsblog.com/9915/Witness--I--m-now-bankrupt


SEC lawsuit
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp17827.htm


'Affinity Fraud'
````````````````

Religion-based scams take Lord's name in gain
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/2118-.html

Con artists preying on faithful
Authorities say religious affinity scams skyrocketing across nation
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an011128-17.html

Investment frauds using religion on the rise, state regulators warn
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010810-23.html

Example: One of America's largest affinity fraud cases (Reed Slatkin)
http://www.slatkinfraud.com/index.php

How To Avoid Investment Scams That Target Groups
http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/affinity.htm

Good God! Faith-based scams proliferate, raise questions about Federal, Local Funding Inititatives

~snip~

"Churches say they want taxpayer funding, but they don't want the type of regulatory oversight and accountability that is designed to protect the public," she said. "Bush is proposing the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of this country between churches and the U.S. Treasury, which is going to create more fraud and theft than ever before."

~snip~

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's "Front Porch" program is already experiencing trouble. The outreach involved heavy emphasis on recruiting houses of worship to operate faith-based community initiatives. In one case, though, money from a Department of Justice grant for a "revitalization" program ended up in the hands of a man with a 12-year history of drug and weapons convictions. In another case, a Health Department program review uncovered thousands of dollars being used for "indirect" and "other" expenses. And the Tampa Tribune newspaper raised questions about a "faith-based Trojan horse" bill in the legislature which would increase the number of religious groups receiving funding.

~snip~

"No one's keeping track," said Ellen Johnson. "We're just handing out the money, and it's there for the taking."

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/faith34.htm

[VegasWolf]

17. Amazing that people still give money to and attend churches. n/t

[deacon2]

19. By their fruits shall ye know them...

That's simple enough, isn't it? If you pay a policeman, why wouldn't you pay a minister? If either one does wrong, they must be punished. This guy is a liar and he cheated those who trusted him to do the work he was being paid to do. It is interesting that so many who would support the arts and other "ethereal" undertakings as being worthy of material (financial) support, now blanche at the notion that the spiritual is worthy of same. No one asked for your money, did they? btw - not a Christian (as commonly defined), Buddhist when I wake up most days, and I am solely responsible for the contents of this post.

[AngryAmish]

21. What a jerk