WP: Detainees Accuse Female Interrogators

[kskiska]

Pentagon Inquiry Is Said to Confirm Muslims' Accounts of Sexual Tactics at Guantanamo

Thursday, February 10, 2005; Page A01

Female interrogators repeatedly used sexually suggestive tactics to try to humiliate and pry information from devout Muslim men held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a military investigation not yet public and newly declassified accounts from detainees.

The prisoners have told their lawyers, who compiled the accounts, that female interrogators regularly violated Muslim taboos about sex and contact with women. The women rubbed their bodies against the men, wore skimpy clothes in front of them, made sexually explicit remarks and touched them provocatively, at least eight detainees said in documents or through their attorneys.

A wide-ranging Pentagon investigation, which has not yet been released, generally confirms the detainees' allegations, according to a senior Defense Department official familiar with the report. While isolated accounts of such tactics have emerged in recent weeks, the new allegations and the findings of the Pentagon investigation indicate that sexually oriented tactics may have been part of the fabric of Guantanamo interrogations, especially in 2003.

(snip)

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the report has not yet been made public, said the fake blood was used on Muslim men before they intended to pray, because some Muslims believe that "if a woman touches him prior to prayer, then he's dirty and can't pray." Muslim men also believe that contact with women other than their wives diminishes religious purity.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12431-2005Feb9.html

[seventythree]

1. I'm sorry

but if a woman hating culture considers this torture, I don't care.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. And if someone took a piss in your church's baptismal font?

Same thing.

Different cultures, different religions have different concepts of the sacred.

As an atheist, I think it's all nonsense, but that doesn't give me a right to piss on your church, any more than it gives our soldiers a right to sexually humiliate POWs.

[seventythree]

6. In Saudi Arabia

they are still chopping off heads of gays outside the mosque, sharia law demands that you beat a disobedient wife, in much of the Muslim world genital mutilation of females is still going on,--- don't expect me to respect that they consider treating women like dirt, sacred, because I won't.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. So their abuses justify our abuses?

Pick up a civilian on a sweep, haul him off with a bag over his head, put him in a cell for two months, beat him, humiliate him, insult his faith and his culture, then let him go.

You have just created a life-long enemy.

Where do you think the insurrection came from? That it is really Baathist holdouts and foreign fighters?

I recommend you read Riverbend's blog. What started as a 'hope for the best' with the invasion has developed into a deep seated, churning disgust at the occupation -- and this from an obviously intelligent, apparently wester-educated young woman.

The Muslim faith is about 600 years younger than Christianity. Look back at us 600 years ago -- we were burning heretics and witches, hanging adulterers and thieves, disemboweling traitors, and no one, anywhere, had any rights at all. And this was in very Christian Europe.

Most Muslims do not live under Sharia law. Most Muslim women are not required to wear burkhas, or even to be be veiled. Most Muslim women do not suffer genital mutilation.

And if you believe in human rights at all, you cannot disregard the rights of those who themselves do not hold to your beliefs.

[seventythree]

10. I assume you have been reading

about the quest to enshrine Sharia Law in the new Iraqi constitution -- it was only avoided in the interim government because Brenner vetoed it. Don't you think that from the moment we detain someone and incarcerate them in Iraq or Guitmo, they see us as a life long enemy? The jihadists feel it is their sacred duty to kill Americans, do we just respect their faith and not try to bring them to justice?

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. "Don't you think that from the moment we detain someone..."

Well, yes. I do. So why do we keep doing it? Are we deliberately trying to create enemies?

We invaded their country. They never attacked us. The war in Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. In fact, we abandoned the fight against the weak, disorganized gang that perpetrated that act to attack a country that was a sworn enemy of that same gang.

As I said above, do you really think that the insurgency is hold-outs and 'jihadists'? I have no doubt that the vast majority are young men whose families were bombed, whose business were destroyed, whose mosques were desecrated, whose brothers and fathers and sisters and mothers were arrested in sweeps and held for no good reason, insulted, humiliated, even tortured and killed.

Would you do any different in someone came here and did the same?

When the Iraqis fought against the British eighty years ago, it was much the same. After the Brits left, did Iraqis continue their war and attack the British Isles? No. They just wanted the British out. Just like today, they want the Americans out.

Have you swallowed the admin koolaid about the war in Iraq being a part of the war on terror?

Prior to the war, Iraq was the one country in the middle-east that had the strictest separation of state and religion. Women had more personal freedom, to work, to be educated, to choose their own relationships. If any country was suited for conversion to democracy, it was Iraq. But now, Iraqis equate democracy with crusade-ism, with invasion and detention and two hours of electricity a day.

We need to just get out, and let them choose their own future.

[seventythree]

13. absolutely no argument from me

I agree, (except that choosing their own future looks to be very bad for women -- very Taliban) but the thread was about using sexuality on Guitmo detainees. From what I had read, the sexuality was used on a Muslim who had been taking flying lessons in Arizona -- do I think he may have valuable information? Yes, I do. I just don't think it is necessary for us to apply any stricter concept of human rights than that which is held by the western world, and the western world would not find plunking a thong as violative of those (detainees are under a much greater protection if we apply our standards than if we applied theirs!). We all found Aru Ghraib violative of our sensibilities, on the other hand. Sometimes we are called on to draw fine lines -- I just stated where mine were.

[lumpy]

14. So that makes it alright

for US military to use brutal and demeaning tactics?

[w4rma]

3. Do you think it's okay for our military to be pimping these women soldiers

out to these detainees? The women soldiers are under orders to do this. They have no choice but to act like sluts.

[DistantWind88]

7. How do you know they were soliders?

I beleive they were actually contractors.

[Bonobo]

5. I'm sorry, but if a human being hating person gets hit by a bus...

I don't care.

[mediaman007]

9. This seems like a double standard from those who hold our women

to be pure. If women are going to choose to use their bodies in this fashion, then they should have choice in all matters.

[ze_dscherman]

4. Kick - there's confirmation by the Pentagon

Of course, it's only some foul apples ...

[GoddessOfGuinness]

11. Were these women acting of their own accord?

Or were they following orders?

If they were acting on their own, they should be charged with sexual assault.

If they were following ordrs, their supervisors should be be forced to pay damages to the women in addition to being held responsible for the abuse against the prisoners.

[Supersedeas]

15. the faith-based crowd wants to obstruct and sully prayer....hmmm, is that

what we are fighting for?

[madmark]

16. Does This Undignified Crap Actually Work?

Is there any evidence that these types of oddball, and in my mind nationally embarrasing and undignified, interrogation tactics actually work?

[gratuitous]

17. I'm sure it works

It just doesn't work in the way that it's being advertised by the pro-torture crowd. Does it yield reliable, actionable information? No. Does it make for a life-long blood enemy of the United States? Could very well be. Does the existence of that enemy justify more budget expenditures on military contracts? Why yes, it does.

Once again, if you follow the money, it turns out to answer all the questions. Why are we degrading and humiliating our captives and ourselves in this manner? Because it helps line the pockets of some of Stupidhead's overrich friends. Q.E.D.