Job growth -- is this it?

[icehenge]

Everyone's been waiting for the sluggish job market to break out; that may not happen any time soon.
February 14, 2005: 5:06 PM EST
By Steven Radwell, CNN/Money staff writer


NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Waiting for the job market to bust out? Well, get ready for a long wait.

There's little dispute that U.S. job growth has been well below normal since the last recession ended in November 2001.

But rather than strengthening anytime soon, the labor market may not pick up much, or at all, at least for the foreseeable future, a growing number of labor market experts and Wall Street economists are saying.

"I do think we're in a new era now in which job growth will remain sluggish for quite some time," former Labor Secretary Robert Reich said in a comment e-mailed to CNN/Money.

Continued here:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/14/news/economy/jobs_outlook/index.htm?cnn=yes

[Warren Stupidity]

1. yeah bobby, you helped email our jobs to asia

you and the rest of the free trade dlc bozos.

Oh, sorry, no dem bashing outloud.

[Eric J in MN]

3. Robert Reich is a great Bush critic, but supported NAFTA

when he was Labor Secretary.

[cyclezealot]

4. think Reich has since changed his mind.

Remember many Clintonites were not too helpful in Reich's run for Governor of Massachusetts.

[Eric J in MN]

7. He's against NAFTA now? nt

nt

[papau]

15. yes - he has joined Paul Samuelson ! :-)

and the rest of us!

[Eric J in MN]

28. thanks (nt)

nt

[lonestarnot]

33. Robert Reich knows how to admit he was wrong. He is a very bright shining

star.

[barb162]

8. hey I will agree with you there. Clinton's biggest mistake ( other

than Monica) was the free trade agreements. I am a great believer in protecting jobs here. There 's a fair number of liberal economists who say free trade does not work when there are very disparate economies. Have fair trade, not free trade. And Bush is pushing things way faster down the hole to depression.

[Tux]

12. Dems need to

Promote the idea that companies who keep jobs in America and try to hire Americans so America will be stronger should be shown to be truely American. Companies like Dell, AOL, Microsoft, and anyone that sends jobs overseas should be seen as anti-American since they are supporting India's middle class and ruining our economy. Dems need to say they made a mistake and try to fix. Take responsibility and promote America in fair trade and keeping jobs here. Bush and his supporters should be shown to be the anti-Americans that they are.

[Laurab]

19. But aren't companies like that *' s base?

How could they possibly be anti-American? Oh, wait...never mind....

[Strelnikov_]

20. We Should Take It Even One Step Further. Question Their Patriotism

The weakening of America due to the GOP’s policy of corporate globalism resulting in the exporting of American jobs to low wage countries. If this GOP policy continues unabated, eventually America will not have an adequate manufacturing base to produce the goods required to maintain our way of life. America will then be dependant upon, and therefore under the sphere of control, of the producing nations.

The weakening of America due to the GOP’s policy of massive trade and Government deficits, with the resultant purchase of debt by trade rivals, such as the Communist Chinese. This transfer of wealth has provided these nations the ability to wage economic warfare on America.

The weakening of America due to the GOP’s policy of maintaining access to foreign sources of fossil fuel in lieu of emphasizing the development of domestic, renewable energy sources. This policy of maintaining America’s addiction to foreign energy sources has resulted in America becoming the developed world’s policeman in protecting access to the remaining petroleum reserves, draining off the wealth of America while providing an economic windfall for trading partners and rivals alike.

And, most importantly, the weakening of America due to the GOP’s policy of creation and maintenance of a small gilded, ownership class controlling most of the wealth of America. Once the GOP policies have weakened America sufficiently, this ‘ownership’ class, with their capital, will flee to other shores, leaving the working people of America a looted nation.

What is the more unpatriotic?. The actions of the GOP strawmen who supposedly undermine America by questioning the actions of it’s political leaders, or the GOP’s policy of undermining America’s economic base? We say the first action, as Teddy Roosevelt noted, is the duty of all patriotic Americans, while the latter is the action of looters with no attachment to their country.

We believe in an America that is a good neighbor and trading partner. An America that is involved in a free and fair global market system. Fair not only for the ownership classes, but also for the working people of our trade partners, and most importantly, the working people of America.

[pokercat999]

44. Republicans = Traitors through trade of the American middle class

This should be our new mantra repeated over and over in public by all democrats.

[barb162]

21. yeah, I hope Howard Dean takes this issue up; it needs to be

addressed before almost all the jobs are lost in this country (except, medical, etc). We really are headed down the hole to being a banana republic in several different economic areas. I think we have to be the only nation dumb enough to ship out our technology and scientific achievements. Hand over all kinds of software , high tech jobs to Asia, reduce our software anfd tech people to working at the grocery store and then a few yrs. from now when all the patents and new tech comes from Asia, we sit here and say, gee how did that happen? And we will become the low-tech agriculture supplier to India, China, etc. They will be building jets, missiles for outer space, etc., and we will be growing the corn and rice for the world as our only economic activity.

[sandnsea]

34. Tech, energy investment

If we'd done that, like any Democrat would have, that would have helped.

If we'd continued pressing for labor, environmental and human rights reforms; as any Democrat would have, it would have helped lift other countries up while equalizing the playing field at the same time.

This is a fight about two different economic philosophies. Any thinking American who has studied history at all ought to be able to clearly see the differences. Republicans believing in exploitation, Democrats believe in inclusion. We all go up together.

It's really stupid to blame Democrats for outsourcing when what we're really fighting is a Republican exploitation economy that isn't dependent on NAFTA or anything else. Republians will exploit labor, the environment, government programs, whatever. They'll hurt US labor whether they export jobs or import immigrants.

These practices can be seen in ones own hometown. There's businesses that will cut corners, break laws, hire illegals, etc. There's businesses that won't. It doesn't mean business is bad, it means there's unethical business owners which is why we need regulation.

But even when you've got regulation, which we do have with NAFTA, you have to have someone enforce it. Which we don't have with Bush and never will have with a Republican President.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Cutting the dividends tax discourages hiring.

Because it makes investors want corporate profits paid out in dividends, instead of used to expand the number of employees.

Bush cut the dividends tax.

[William Bloode]

5. Really???????

You mean * was not being truthful that job growth is right around the corner???

I'm shocked i tell ya, just plum shocked!

[barb162]

6. watch the consumer confidence numbers start to slip more after

this gets digested

[yinkaafrica]

9. reich is awesome

he believed the lies same as everyone else!
Met him in person. Awesome.

[teryang]

10. 119,000 net jobs in four years

Yes, that's a problem.

The real estate market in my neighborhood which involves ordinary working people and families and small businesses has literally stopped. No buying and for rent signs popping up behind houses that will not sell and failed small businesses.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

14. Another recession is coming!

[UL_Approved]

23. More likely a depression

Check this article out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A21721-2005Feb13?language=printer

Taken from this DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1235767

We are in for more than a recession. We are headed for a full-blown depression.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

25. Come 2008, we could have one of the following:

-Wesley Delano Clark
-Mark Delano Clark
-Al Delano Gore
-John Delano Kerry
-Ed Delano Rendell
-John Delano Edwards
-Hillary Delano Clinton

[chalky]

27. Heck, the way things are going, we'll even take an

Al Delano Sharpton.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

29. Well it's about time a Brother got the White House!

:kick:

[EVDebs]

11. It all comes down to Supply Siders. They believe the rich few can

cause the economy to move. Say's Law (supply creates its own demand) is bogus, but don't tell them that. Keyne's work on 'marginal propensity to consume'-- where the poorer you are, if you're given a taxbreak, the more of it you will spend-- is for real.

Nixon had the same kind of Damascus moment, 'We're all Keynesians now' he's rumored to have said. Well, duh ! The rich, as with these tax cuts, $1.8 trillion worth in Bush's 2001 deal, just put most of it under the mattress so to speak.

You're seeing the effects of all that wealth concentration right now
http://www.osjspm.org/101_wealth.htm#3

If you're making less than $3 million you are essentially subsidizing the richest 1 and 1/2 % of taxpayers plus the globalized multinational corporations. 'Only the little people pay taxes' said Leona Helmsly. She was right unfortunately.

[bushcrab]

13. wowsers. I never saw this coming

Let's see....tax breaks for the rich + NAFTA = US workers are *ucked.

But I hear that the military might be hiring!

[Blower]

16. This is the "big house bubble crash" scenario

House prices keep going up, but jobs never catch up.

Exactly what caused the California house price crash years ago.

[kiraboo]

17. I've been "growing" poor while looking for a job.

In our area there have been many layoffs in the manufacturing and paper industries, to start, that a poor schmuck like me can't get the most basic job behind a desk. Which is where I'd like to be.

[American liberal]

18. yeah, but I heard on NPR today that Best Buy is opening

20 new stores and will be hiring thousands! But I suspect that one can barely afford rent and living expenses on what they pay their retailers.

[kiraboo]

22. You got that. Fortunately, all I have to cover is property taxes

and the cost to my family by my leaving the home. I suppose retail is a possibility.

[NEOBuckeye]

24. Peak Oil, Anyone?

If production of this stuff is really about to peak and decline, I think you can kiss growth good-bye in the traditional sense.

Unless, of course, you want to talk about Suburb Demolition and Organic Farming.

[reprobate]

26. My question is why is all that growth needed?

In my simple minded economic model it seems that the only economic growth necessary is growth to compensate for the workforce increase and inflation.

Anything more should go to increase the standard of living of the public. Have you seen an increase in the standard of living of most of the people? Seems to me that the growth goes into the dividends to the stockholders, and certainly to top management.

American style preditory capitalism needs some adjustment. Otherwise it is a system that must self-destruct.

[sandnsea]

35. The world?

There's a whole world out there and some of those folks are still living in huts. Do they deserve heat and refrigerators and indoor plumbing?

[reprobate]

37. But growth in the US has nothing to do with improvements in third world.

[sandnsea]

38. Peak Oil is Peak Oil

Doesn't matter where the growth takes place, it takes oil. So even if the US didn't grow or even changed to green growth, it doesn't fix the problem for the rest of the world. We're interdependent, we can't operate in a shell anymore.

[reprobate]

40. OK. I see what you're saying. And I agree.

[thinkingwoman]

30. I have some simple advice

which anyone can take or leave as they see fit:

Make your own job. Find something that rich people want to pay for that you are willing to do, and build a business around it.

[TahitiNut]

31. Yes, that's how the "servant class" expands.

:eyes: The demand for butlers and chauffeurs is going up.

[sandnsea]

36. Investors & those who serve them

That's the future of America. That's why they want everybody to have their SSI money in the corporate system, so Americans won't bitch when the corporates exploit foreign workers, destroy the environment, and put armies all over the world. I've been telling that to every young person I know for at least 5 years now. It's only common sense that when the rest of the world is in poverty, there's no reason for the aristocrats to pay fair wages here. They'll import people for the jobs they can't export. I don't care what field people are in, if you work for a living, you risk becoming part of the servant class.

[thinkingwoman]

41. yes, but that's only the tip of the iceburg

the very wealthy don't like to do much of anything for themselves. If you think butlers and chaufferus are the only businesses/jobs you can create and get paid well for, you are short-sighted.

A very very good living can be made doing things that rich folks are willing to pay well for.

[TahitiNut]

42. The neo American Dream - total dependency on the rich.

The nightmare is nigh.

Here's a clue: Next time, see if you can make your point without saying "If you think ... (then) you are short-sighted." You see, that makes it personal. It's an attack. It's arrogant, pretentious, and condescending. Verstehst du?

[thinkingwoman]

43. nigh, hell, it's already here

I didn't pollyanna anything. I didn't say it was an ideal situation. But it will put food on the table.

[applegrove]

32. The Bush Administration doesn't teach Americans how to adapt to the

New World order and sluggish job growth, etc. Instead they encourage people to buy houses and use the equity in houses to spend money. So that their administration could 'pass on' the recession that was a natural occurrence and hit the US in 1999.

Smoke & mirrors. And the middle class will pay for having bought expensive houses, and having borrowed on their equity, just a few years before the housing market beings to see deflation for 75 years.

Clap Clap Clap

[leftofthedial]

39. "job growth has been well below normal since the last recession ended"

that is, if you believe the cooked, politicized PR numbers that the bushgang's appointees have released to claim tat the recession ended.

Unemployment and underemployment (the actual percentage of people out of work or working at a job below their level of qualification, as opposed to the government's propaganda number) is over 25%.

[jswordy]

45. Stag-flation is rising. Gonna get worse, too.

This is truly an economy where if you have it, you have it made. If you have to work for it, you are in trouble. Heh...Bush's "ownership society" unveiled.

[mhr]

46. All I Have To Say Is "I Told You So" - Unemployed 59 Months

Refugee from telecom and aviation.

Two college degrees - worthless
15+ years of professional work experience - worthless
Commercial pilot - worthless
Honorably discharged Naval Officer - worthless

Our society is telling people like myself that we are worthless.