Hinchey sees hand of Rove (KKKarl blamed for CBS leak)

[mdmc]

My Congressman rocks! All hail the Mighty MO!

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/02/22/hinchey2.htm
(require free registration - please check it out!)
Hinchey sees hand of Rove
'They set up Dan Rather'

I've seen this rumored at DU for months... I thought DU would dig this...

[tlcandie]

1. Any snips possible? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

3. Here's a look......

February 22, 2005

Hinchey sees hand of Rove
'They set up Dan Rather'

By Paul Brooks
Times Herald-Record
[e-mail]

Hurley – Democrat Maurice Hinchey has turned an army of right-wing bloggers into a quivering mass of indignation.
Hinchey suggested that presidential political mastermind Karl Rove is behind the fake documents that brought down several top executives at CBS. The controversy led to the early retirement of longtime anchor Dan Rather, many believe.
The remarks came at a session on Social Security in Ithaca on Sunday, but the comments didn't stay in Ithaca very long. An operative with the littlegreenfootballs.com Web site had recorded Hinchey's comments. Within hours, a transcript of his comments about Rove and a copy of the audiotape were on the Web site. By yesterday afternoon, the site had more than 1,400 responses to his comments.
At the speech Sunday, Hinchey said the media has been attacked and manipulated.
"Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather," he can be heard saying in the audio clip.
"Now, I mean, I have my own beliefs about how that happened: It originated with Karl Rove, in my belief, in the White House ... . Once they did that, then it undermined everything else about Bush's draft dodging. … That had the effect of taking the whole issue away."
(snip/...)

[tlcandie]

5. Thanks, Judi Lynn! Now to listen to the tape!!

:+

[starroute]

37. LittleGreenFootballs was part of the original memo operation

LittleGreenFootballs is -- how shall I put this delicately? -- not exactly an impartial observer in this case.

For example, see this thread from last September quoting something from Daily Kos:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2347964

As everyone on the planet no doubt knows by now, the hard-right of the freeper contingent -- specifically, LittleGreenFootballs, a site which frequently is cited for eliminationist rhetoric and veiled racism, and PowerLine, a site linked to with admiration by such luminaries as Michelle Malkin and Hugh Hewitt -- discovered that if you used the same typeface, you could make documents that looked almost -- but not exactly -- like the TANG documents discovered by CBS News. This qualifies as big news, of course, so from those two sites, the story has spread into the mainstream media through the usual channels, most notably Drudge, NRO, etc.

Here's the actual littlegreenfootballs entry from September 9:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12526_Bush_Guard_Documents-_Forged

It was later discovered that "Buckhead" was the very first to make the claim, but littlegreenfootballs was where people first became aware of it. From there, it was picked up by Greg Mueller's Creative Response Concepts and passed along to Drudge. There was a recent thread discussing Creative Response Concepts which quoted a statement from Greg Mueller confirming the line of transmission:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3137074

These people are funny! :crazy:

[mdmc]

79. thanks for the peek

:kick:

[maddezmom]

6. here's a snip

Hinchey sees hand of Rove
'They set up Dan Rather'

By Paul Brooks
Times Herald-Record
[e-mail]

Hurley – Democrat Maurice Hinchey has turned an army of right-wing bloggers into a quivering mass of indignation.
Hinchey suggested that presidential political mastermind Karl Rove is behind the fake documents that brought down several top executives at CBS. The controversy led to the early retirement of longtime anchor Dan Rather, many believe.
The remarks came at a session on Social Security in Ithaca on Sunday, but the comments didn't stay in Ithaca very long. An operative with the littlegreenfootballs.com Web site had recorded Hinchey's comments. Within hours, a transcript of his comments about Rove and a copy of the audiotape were on the Web site. By yesterday afternoon, the site had more than 1,400 responses to his comments.
At the speech Sunday, Hinchey said the media has been attacked and manipulated.
"Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather," he can be heard saying in the audio clip.

[paineinthearse]

56. Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14007019&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6

Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report
By Paul Kirby, Freeman staff02/22/2005

Hinchey, D-Hurley, said Monday that comments he made at a "Town Hall" forum in Ithaca Saturday were an "exposition of a theory" based on circumstantial evidence about published accounts critical of the president's Air National Guard service, or lack thereof. pokespersons for CBS News, which aired a report based on the phony documents, and the White House could not be reached for comment on Hinchey's theory, which he gave during a forum on Social Security in Ithaca. His remarks were tape-recorded and posted on the Internet. During the forum, Hinchey blamed Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser, for concocting the plan to release phony documents to the media.

Hinchey said Friday that his opinions were his "beliefs" of what happened. "People have changed in the last four years," Hinchey said at the forum. "They've had a very, very direct, aggressive attack on the, on the media and the way it's handled. Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather." Hinchey added that he believed the idea originated with Rove. "They set up those false papers," Hinchey said. "Why did they do it? They knew that Bush was a draft dodger. They knew that he had run away from his responsibilities in the Air National Guard in Texas, gone out of the state intentionally for a long period of time."

Hinchey, a frequent critic of Bush, said the Republican administration was just waiting for some media outlet to publish or report them. "They finally bought into it and they aired it," Hinchey said. "And when they did, they had 'em. They didn't care who did it. All they had to do is to get some element of the media to advance the issue."

<snip>

Hinchey said it is no secret that the Bush administration will attack those in the media that they perceive are not friendly to the administration. The congressman said some reporters are being threatened with jail time over the Central Intelligence Agency agent-outing matter while a conservative columnist, Robert Novac, is being left alone. "He is not being subpoenaed (as part of an investigation) and he is the one who did the story," Hinchey said, referring to Novac's outing as an agent the wife of an ambassador who had criticized the Bush administration.

[Dems Will Win]

70. The actual way the TANG Forgeries happened I believe

A DailyKOS diary nails this one to the wall:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/18/122051/247

"Gannon was being used by the White House to ID Mapes to send the news media in a certain direction on that story --very similar to showing him the CIA memo on Plame and the Shock and Awe scoop. In all instances, it's Gannon who is given hot information to help orchestrate the story.

THIS, PLUS THE FREEPER BUCKHEAD'S IMMEDIATE DISCOVERIES ON THE FORGERIES, PLUS THE EVIDENCE I GIVE BELOW ON ROGER STONE, MAKES IT CLEAR THE WHITE HOUSE WAS BEHIND THE TANG FORGERIES THEMSELVES.




Roger & Nydia Stone: The Unknown Man with the Envelope and Lucy Ramirez?

This is why Gannon was used to steer the story toward CBS and away from a rumor that Roger Stone, the GOP operative was responsible. Even Terry McAuliffe repeated the Stone/TANG charge. The WH wanted the press to focus on CBS, not on Roger Stone and who might have forged the documents--for it is a federal crime to forge official documents. Had the press focused on that it might have turned out differently--but the WH with Gannon and Hannity's help made the story the fall of Dan Rather.

We all now know that Bill Burkett says he was told about the TANG documents by a certain "Lucy Ramirez" and that he was given the forgeries by "an unknown man with an envelope" who turned and left after making the hand-off in Houston. Let us consider that Roger Stone, the infamous dirty trickster of the Nixon, Reagan and Bush eras, where he worked with Rove, is well known for forging documents, planting them inside opponent's campaigns and then immediately alerting the press."

That's just the beginning!

[Moderator]

2. You need to change the subject line

to read exactly as the article states.
A short snip would be helpful too.

( sorry about the moving around...that was an error)

[Moderator]

4. Here is another link

for a free site:
http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20050222/localnews/2014019.html

[justiceischeap]

7. Deleted - it's a triplecate

[mdmc]

8. sorry

:hi:

[d.l.Green]

9. He sure does! My Congressman also- even in this Republican heavy

district he always gets re-elected handily. That's quite a feat when he's one of the most liberal Congresspeople out there. He says some quite amazing things alot- and yet the national press for some reason rarely spotlights him. I think his name on a ballot actually encourages more voters out, spawning more Democratic wins.

[paineinthearse]

10. Nothing yet on his House website

http://www.house.gov/hinchey/newsroom/

[winston61]

11. DUH!!

Rove chumped Rather and CBS big time. Hook, line and sinker on dry ground. Listen to this: ROVE IS BEHIND IT ALL! The single most dangerous man in the United States. He is the man who is behind all the efforts to recreate the Glided Age in the USA.

[Dr Fate]

12. Make them deny it. Then ask if thet would deny it "under oath."

I hope he does not back down.

[piece sine]

46. as if....

who has the power to demand that of Rove?

[Dr Fate]

48. But any DEM can go on TV and raise the question.

I would like to see Bush say "I'm not going under oath" and hear the DEMS ask "Why? Whatcha hiding? Let the chips fall where they may..."

Stop making excuses and DIG what I am proposing.

[pokercat999]

76. I would like to see Bush say "I'm not going under oath"

He already did without the slightest whimper from the MSM and the sheeple remember the 9/11 commission "testimony" with his boy FU Cheney at his side?

[paineinthearse]

13. Little Green Footballs

The Ithica newspaper article (Gannett, go figure) points to a blog named LITTLE GREEN FOOTBALLS - http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14785

In this one there is a reference to video recordings...searching....

Here’s another open topic for discussion of the Hinchey affair (must ... not ... call it ... Hincheygate!), because the original threads are so full of comments.

The LGF reader who recorded Rep. Hinchey’s twisted conspiracy delusions informs me that there were at least two people videotaping the entire meeting, and at least two others making audio recordings.

Yet, we see no mention of Hinchey’s rant in any published report.

UPDATE at 2/21/05 10:34:16 am:

Here’s a good comment from “curdie,” the reader who made the Hinchey recording.

[paineinthearse]

14. Found it - audio and transcript

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14781

2/20/2005: Congressman Says Rove Planted CBS Memos

Yesterday Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) hosted a community forum in Ithaca, New York, on The Future Of Social Security.

An LGF reader was present in the audience and happened to be recording as Rep. Hinchey launched into a barking moonbat conspiracy rant worthy of Democratic Underground, telling the audience he believed the fake CBS memos were planted by Karl Rove to discredit Dan Rather, and divert attention from President Bush’s “draft dodging.”

When our reader asked Hinchey if he had evidence for these charges, he first said, “Yes, I do,” but when asked a second time he admitted he did not.

Our reader pressed the issue, “Don’t you think it’s irresponsible to make charges like that?” Hinchey replied, “No, I don’t, I think it’s very important to make charges like that ... I think it’s very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can, and I’m willing, as most people are not, to step forward in situations like this and take risks.”

And the crowd burst into applause and cheering.

Here’s the audio. (MP3, 2.7 MB.) http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Music/karl_rove_dupes_cbs.mp3

UPDATE at 2/20/05 4:48:20 pm:

Courtesy of LGF operative zombie (who is not the operative who recorded Rep. Hinchey’s rant), here is a full transcript of the recording:

***

Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY): Well, you know, they are manipulating the media, they did it in the very beginning through intimidation. They would intimidate the people in the, uh, in the press conference. And ... they would ask — they would allow questions to be asked only of people that they knew were going to ask the right kind of questions, from their point of view. And, you know, that has its effect, had, had its effect on people. People have been — people in the media have been intimidated. The media has changed in the last four years. People have changed in the last four years. They’ve had a very very direct, aggressive attack on the, on the media, and the way it’s handled. Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather. Now, I mean, I have my own beliefs about how that happened: it originated with Karl Rove, in my belief, in the White House. They set that up with those false papers. Why did they do it? They knew that Bush was a draft dodger. They knew that he had run away from his responsibilties in the Air National Guard in Texas, gone out of the state intentionally for a long period of time. They knew that he had no defense for that period in his life. And so what they did was, expecting that that was going to come up, they accentuated it: they produced papers that made it look even worse. And they — and they distributed those out to elements of the media. And it was only — what, like was it CBS? Or whatever, whatever which one Rather works for. They — the people there — they finally bought into it, and they, and they aired it. And when they did, they had ’em. They didn’t care who did it! All they had to do is to get some element of the media to advance that issue. Based upon the false papers that they produced.

Audience Member: Do you have any evidence for that?

Congressman Hinchey: Yes I do. Once they did that —

Audience:

Congressman Hinchey: ...once they did that, then it undermined everything else about Bush’s draft dodging. Once they were able to say, ‘This is false! These papers are not accurate, they’re, they’re, they’re false, they’ve been falsified.’ That had the effect of taking the whole issue away.

Audience Member: So you have evidence that the papers came from the Bush administration?

Congressman Hinchey: No. I — that’s my belief.

Audience Member: OK.

Congressman Hinchey: And I said that. In the very beginning. I said, ‘It’s my belief that those papers, and that setup, originated with Karl Rove and the White House.’

Audience Member: Don’t you think it’s irresponsible to make charges like that?

Congressman Hinchey: No I don’t. I think it’s very important to make charges like that. I think it’s very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can. And I’m willing — and most people are not — to step forward in situations like this and take risks.

Audience:

Congressman Hinchey: I consider that to be part of my job, and I’m gonna continue to do it.

[paineinthearse]

17. Zombie's transcript

http://www.zombietime.com/hinchey_speech/

Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) Gave the following speech at a community forum in Ithaca, New York, on Saturday, February 19 from 1:00 to 3:00pm at Ithaca Town Hall. In it, he blames Karl Rove for the "Rathergate" scandal, claiming Rove created the forged documents used in the discredited CBS report about George Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard. The exact transcript below was taken directly from the recording of the speech made by a member of the audience:


Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY): Well, you know, they are manipulating the media, they did it in the very beginning through intimidation. They would intimidate the people in the, uh, in the press conference. And ... they would ask -- they would allow questions to be asked only of people that they knew were going to ask the right kind of questions, from their point of view. And, you know, that has its effect, had, had its effect on people. People have been -- people in the media have been intimidated. The media has changed in the last four years. People have changed in the last four years. They've had a very very direct, aggressive attack on the, on the media, and the way it's handled. Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather. Now, I mean, I have my own beliefs about how that happened: it originated with Karl Rove, in my belief, in the White House. They set that up with those false papers. Why did they do it? They knew that Bush was a draft dodger. They knew that he had run away from his responsibilties in the Air National Guard in Texas, gone out of the state intentionally for a long period of time. They knew that he had no defense for that period in his life. And so what they did was, expecting that that was going to come up, they accentuated it: they produced papers that made it look even worse. And they -- and they distributed those out to elements of the media. And it was only -- what, like was it CBS? Or whatever, whatever which one Rather works for. They -- the people there -- they finally bought into it, and they, and they aired it. And when they did, they had 'em. They didn't care who did it! All they had to do is to get some element of the media to advance that issue. Based upon the false papers that they produced.

Audience Member: Do you have any evidence for that?

Congressman Hinchey: Yes I do. Once they did that --

Audience:

Congressman Hinchey: ...once they did that, then it undermined everything else about Bush's draft dodging. Once they were able to say, 'This is false! These papers are not accurate, they're, they're, they're false, they've been falsified.' That had the effect of taking the whole issue away.

Audience Member: So you have evidence that the papers came from the Bush administration?

Congressman Hinchey: No. I -- that's my belief.

Audience Member: OK.

Congressman Hinchey: And I said that. In the very beginning. I said, 'It's my belief that those papers, and that setup, originated with Karl Rove and the White House.'

Audience Member: Don't you think it's irresponsible to make charges like that?

Congressman Hinchey: No I don't. I think it's very important to make charges like that. I think it's very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can. And I'm willing -- and most people are not -- to step forward in situations like this and take risks.

Audience:

Congressman Hinchey: I consider that to be part of my job, and I'm gonna continue to do it.

[inslee08]

71. No evidence

This transcript doesn't inspire confidence. He doesn't seem to have much evidence to support his claim, other than motive. It's an interesting theory, but until we can prove it, there's no point to pressing it. We'd just look silly.

[ZR2]

15. I find it very difficult to believe that Rove is smart enough

to be responsible for 1/2 the shit that is blamed on him. People give him way too much credit.

[ElectroPrincess]

18. I would have said the same thing yesterday ...

until last night when I watched the Documentary (based on the book) that paraded out a number of "good people" that Rove has politically (and emotionally) DESTROYED.

I must now get a copy of the book or purchase because *all* these people tell the same story of the most horrendous dirty tricks that Rove has his fingerprints on in SEVERAL campaigns dating back to his college days.

"Take no prisoners!" is seemingly Rove's life long political mindset. What a dark, dank and evil persona oozed out into clear focus by viewing this documentary.

http://www.bushsbrain.com/

Again, I WANT to read the book for the full story.

BTW Thank goodness for The Sundance Channel and it's ongoing coverage of progressive documentaries. In some small way, they help dispel the FOX media propaganda machine.

[Auntie Bush]

24. Does anyone in the Northeast get the Sundance Channel through Adelphia?

[CanOfWhoopAss]

25. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled...."

"...was convincing the world he didn't exist."- Verbal Kint, "The Usual Suspects"

[glitch]

40. He's not - these are tried and true methods from Lee Atwater. Rove is just

his student. Anyone can do these things, all they need is a sociopathic personality. Simple, easy, no smarts required.

If rover were the bold genius as claimed he'd come up with something original. And that goes for the rest of the administration as well.

[Cadence]

62. That's true. Now all we need

is the playbook on how to bring these types down.

[glitch]

73. Free flow of information - and we the people. It's already happening.

More people wake up to the reality of what this administration is everyday. AND, more and more people are getting their information from the Internet, so their dam on information flow has major cracks.

It took this lot 30 years and a ton of money to get where they are.
And I bet they go down before the next election. Yep, I know.
Just a crazy optimist here. :silly:

[IronLionZion]

41. this shit doesn't require much intelligence

just a complete lack of decency. It does NOT take a genius to plant bullshit for the media.

[katty]

65. rover is a smart dog and runs a tight

operation. his entire political pitbull history bears this out.
check out "Bush's Brain" book/dvd (all assertions to his political brilliance are documented)

[paineinthearse]

16. self delete - moved to another thread

[paineinthearse]

19. JODY ROSELLE ITHACA has hit Google News

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Representative has 'theory' of White House manipulation
JODY ROSELLE ITHACA
Journal Staff

Has hit Google. Let's watch and see if it grows legs or is squashed.

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 4 hours ago
US Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca ...

[paineinthearse]

22. Media watch

I've started a parallel thread in GENERAL to track the media response - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3157806

[calimary]

38. We need SUPPORTER RESPONSE, TOO, guys:

I called his office. I said it was important enough for me to call all the way from California. The staffer on the other end said mine was the ONLY call they've received that was supportive, and it was MUCH appreciated. Apparently, there's been a storm of protest calls slamming him by hoards of flying monkeys from the Dark Side.

GUYS: IF YOU CAN...

PLEASE call his office. Or contact him in some other way.


CONTACTS For Congressman. Hinchey

Via http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/?id=431&lvl=C&chamber=H

Web Site: www.house.gov/hinchey
E-mail: Contact Via 'Write Your Rep.'

Washington Office:
2431 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-3222
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
291 Wall St.
Kingston, NY 12401
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Washington Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
2431 Rayburn H.O.B.
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Middletown Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
City Hall, Third Floor
16 James St.
Middletown, NY 10940
Phone: [phone]

Binghamton Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
100A Federal Building
Binghamton, NY 13901
Phone: [phone]

Kingston Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
291 Wall Street
Kingston, NY 12401
Phone: [phone]

Ithaca Office:
Office of Rep Hinchey
123 S. Cayuga St. #201
Ithaca, NY 14850
Phone: [phone]

Monticello Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
18 Anawana Lake Road
Monticello, NY 12701
Phone: [phone]

If you can do this, then, also, PLEASE call your own congressperson and urge him/her to support this guy. He's under fire. If it's a Dem, it should be easy enough. If it's a republi-CON, DO IT ANYWAY. Because they NEED to hear from the opposition. They NEED VERY SERIOUSLY to hear from people who are NOT in mindless lockstep with this White House. They NEED to hear that WE, TOO, are out there, and must be considered. Remember, THEY work for US. It's NOT the other way around. And THEY need us at voting time. And even if they're not on our side, they need to be reminded that OUR VOTES could make the difference when they want to be reelected, and they ignore us AT THEIR PERIL.

You can get your own representative's contact info via www.congress.org - some VERY comprehensive directories there for Washington office contact info AND regional/local office contact info.

Just do it. This guy needs our support.

[GetTheRightVote]

45. I support anyone who points out the truth about this crime family

I called and gave the Senator a pat on the back.
Thank you for the posting.

:kick:

[zalinda]

50. Just wrote him a thank you note n/t

[EFerrari]

52. Called. Good idea. n/t

[Virginian]

55. Did it. Not sure it worked

I tried to use the spell check and got an error page.
I tried to use the preview and got an error page and it wiped out what I had typed.
I retyped my message:

"
Subject: Thank you for your statement on Karl Rove.
Thank you for expressing my thoughts.
I am not in your district, but I wish I had a representative like you who supports honesty in journalism.
Keep up the good work, our country needs more patriots like you.
"

I filled out my info and sent the email. I did not get an error message this time, but because of the other two errors, I wonder if it was really sent.

[ChemBob]

60. Support for Hinchey

I wrote to the Congressman with the following:

Dear Congressman Hinchey,

Although I am not in your district, I assure you that your representation
of Karl Rove as being the likely architect of the forged Bush documents
that caused the resignation of Dan Rather and others at CBS has very well
represented my beliefs. I hope and pray that evidence of this comes to the
fore.

I consider it also likely that Mr. Rove is the contact within the White
House that allowed Jeff Gannon (Jim Guckert) access to the press
briefings, in the absence of suitable press credentials, in order to serve
as a foil to the President. Because Mr. Guckert is a gay male prostitute,
he would seem to be an unusual random choice as a propagandizer by an
administration that is vocally staunchly opposed to homosexuality.
Something very unusual has happened at the highest levels of this
government that needs to be revealed and understood.

The corruption of this administration is thorough and unequalled in our
nation's history. Even Richard Nixon would not have been party to this
level of depravity. Evidence and proof is hard to obtain, but I encourage
you to keep pressing forward on these important issues.

[R Hickey]

72. Welcome to DU Chembob

Nice letter. Especially the Gannon part.

[Blue to the bone]

20. What does it really matter? Rather still made an ass of himself...

........by running with the story without checking out the sources thoroughly.

Even if that low-life fucker Rove was behind it all, how does it excuse an organization of CBS's stature for being sucked in by such a simple scam?

[paineinthearse]

23. That's not the point

The story is not CBS' incompetency.

The story is CBS' complicity and/or Rove's involvement.

[Blue to the bone]

26. When we've got the MSM whining about bloggers.....

...the story to me most definitely is their incompetency!

[d.l.Green]

53. I don't know. The way Rather stuck to his guns says something about the

respect he had for his source. There's got to be more to that part of the story also. I can't see Rather being so defensive without more solid trust in his proof. You can call Rather incompetent all you want, but that still doesn't explain his resolve. He had a lot to lose- why would it be worth it to him?B-)

[Blue to the bone]

74. Very simple to explain his resolve.

He's DAN RATHER.

He hoped the entire story would go away without ever having to admit that he'd been suckered by Mary Mapes who'd been suckered by "the source".

This is what happens when the MSM tries to make the news instead of reporting it. And they're all guilty whether on the left or the right.

[shrike]

21. Well, Duh

Not that Rather wasn't easy to set up (never was too impressed with him.) But I suspected a dirty trick from the get-go.

[mdmc]

29. God, I love the Big Mo!

:kick:

[paineinthearse]

27. Daily Freeman - Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14007019&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6

Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report
By Paul Kirby, Freeman staff02/22/2005

Hinchey, D-Hurley, said Monday that comments he made at a "Town Hall" forum in Ithaca Saturday were an "exposition of a theory" based on circumstantial evidence about published accounts critical of the president's Air National Guard service, or lack thereof.

Spokespersons for CBS News, which aired a report based on the phony documents, and the White House could not be reached for comment on Hinchey's theory, which he gave during a forum on Social Security in Ithaca. His remarks were tape-recorded and posted on the Internet.

During the forum, Hinchey blamed Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser, for concocting the plan to release phony documents to the media.

Hinchey said Friday that his opinions were his "beliefs" of what happened.

more.....

[Canuckistanian]

28. YES! Investigate this!

WHO was the ORIGINAL AUTHOR of those memos????? Somebody should probe everything.

[Junkdrawer]

30. To believe otherwise, you have to believe Bill Buckley looked...

at a TV image of the memo and saw proportional spacing of a 70's era document. I believe those were his words on FreeRepuklic. At any rate, he was able to "expose" the "forgeries" within a few hours of the broadcast.

And we found later that the content was accurate.

I've always said that *someone* (most likely Rove) planted a word processed copy of the original with a source of a source of a source and waited for it to bubble to the surface. As soon as it did, Buckley was used to set the hook.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Junkdrawer]

43. BTW: s/b "Buckhead"...and I used to have the whole thread archived...

but I remember him saying that he was suspicious when he saw the documents on the screen...and THEN he went to CBS's website to confirm his suspicions.

[Fridays Child]

31. Wasn't there speculation that the wife of some FL Repub operative...

...gave the papers to Bill Burkett?

[Democrats_win]

32. The press is already bush's prostitute, why bother. eom

[Dr Fate]

47. Because telling the truth is RIGHT. n/t

n/t

[chlamor]

33. Hinchey is solid and forthright

He is also acutely aware of all these neocons are up to. I've seen him speak on several occasions and he pulls no punches. A breathe of fresh air in the stench of the american body politic. His voting record on various legislation is also superb. He is also not one to just make blind assertions. In my book he is right there with C. McKinney as one of the few honest folks left in D.C.

[paineinthearse]

34. JODY ROSELLE - IJ follow-up: Hinchey remarks draw fire

http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20050222/localnews/2014019.html

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Representative has 'theory' of White House manipulation
JODY ROSELLE
ITHACA Journal Staff

(mods - the IJ posted this as one paragraph. I split the last part.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------


Hinchey

U.S. Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca Hall. During the question-and-answer session of the forum, Hinchey spoke about alleged media manipulation by the Bush administration and mentioned the incident at CBS with the forged documents about the president's Air National Guard records. Hinchey then suggested that now White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove provided CBS both the fraudulent and official documents. The remarks were made after a Journal reporter had left the forum for another assignment. According to a portion of a transcript and an audio clip posted to the Web site littlegreenfootballs.com at 5:39 p.m. Saturday, Hinchey first told the group he had evidence to support his claim. Further in the transcript, he is quoted as saying he does not have evidence. Hinchey acknowledged addressing the topic but said his comments were misunderstood. "At one point, someone asked me a question about the way in which the media in our country are being manipulated," Hinchey said Monday. "And what I said is that it was developing an important issue." Hinchey denied saying he had evidence about possible Rove involvement in an alleged plan to mislead the news media. "My theory is, it's a theory, that it came from the Bush administration," he said on Monday. "It came from Karl Rove. I do think it's very important to get to the bottom of things like this. We can't allow the political process in this country to be manipulative and Machiavellian kind of way." City of Ithaca resident Jason Phipps-Morgan, who attended the forum, said he remembered a vague question but not hearing Hinchey say he had proof. "I mean, I do remember him saying that he felt basically Rather and CBS got duped by some Republican operatives," Phipps-Morgan said. "But then again he stressed, there was not any strong evidence that he knew of while he was saying this." The Web site transcript also quotes the unidentified audience member asking Hinchey if he thought it was irresponsible to make allegations without proof. "No I don't," Hinchey is quoted as saying. "I think it's very important to make charges like that. I think it's very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can. And I'm willing --and most people are not -- to step forward in situations like this and take risks."

Mark Finkelstein, vice-chairman of the Tompkins County Republican Committee, said he found Hinchey's remarks to be politically motivated. "I didn't think it was responsible for him to make those kinds of allegations without proof," Finkelstein said. "I think it shows, I can't read his mind but I think it's something of a trend of Democrats being so disappointed with the last election but being out of the Congressional majority now for over 10 years."

[mdmc]

35. Mo! MO! MO !!!

:kick:

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Ask Finkelstein About The Swift Boat Liars

Idiot! The Swifties have been proven to be politically motivated liars of the first order. And he says it's a trend with Dems! This guy's quite a piece of work.
The Professor

[NVMojo]

39. YAY!! Many at DU suspected Rove was behind this ...

what America keeps forgetting is when the repuke blogger broke the info on the typewriter keys, there was to be a huge TV news special released on the former Texas Lt. Gov. who was going to go over the ways he helped daddy bush keep baby bush out of Viet Nam. The crap hit the fan with the typewriter keys and I never heard another peep about the Texas Lt. Governorn story....

so typical Rove. He controls the media spin and if the media doesn't cooperate, he controls the media.

[PurityOfEssence]

44. Those documents are not necessarily false

I'll say it again: although the torches and pitchforks morons of the world may chorus that those are not authentic, there's not only no proof of that, but a fair amount of evidence that they're genuine.

CBS withdrew its contention because it couldn't PROVE them authentic. Now the burden of proof is on decriers.

The facts:

1) They may very well have been typed on a typewriter at Killian's disposal at the time. All technical dismissals have been disproven. To have done so is in keeping with a circumspect bureaucrat/military officer. Not only that, the shortness and at least one typo are well in keeping with a non-typist covering his ass for private, duplicate files.

2) Killian's secretary confirms his ire on the subject and that there were similar "official" memos that she typed. (Quite frankly, the purging of these documents were the work of Junior when Governor, and that is a serious crime.)

3) Lacking originals, the authenticity can't be confirmed, BUT there are ways to confirm circumstantial trails of authenticity. One very simple way is to analyze the copies: if they were made on paper and with toner that was available at whatever Texas ANG facility the documents would have been stored at, then it's a pretty strong case.

4) The ONLY circumstantial evidence that tends to discredit the documents is terminology, which is characterized as more Army language than Air Force. Unless this can be backed up by other Killian documents, it means nothing.

THE BIGGEST POINT IS THAT THESE HAVE BEEN DECRIED AS FORGERIES, WHEN VIRTUALLY ALL EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEIR AUTHENTICITY. This is very scary: the media echo-chamber is so strong that an overwhelming preponderance of contrary evidence can be not only drowned out, but have the common understanding switched to the opposite of what any objective judge would conclude.

CBS dropped its contention because it couldn't prove it. That is nowhere near an admission of fraud. The frauds are those who continue to trumpet the assumption that these documents are fakes.

Beyond all that, the information contained in them has been confirmed as the belief and position of the alleged writer, and the facts of Junior's service aren't disputed: he used family influence to avoid service (and lied about that repeatedly), sucked huge amounts of public funding learning how to fly, bullied his superiors with his family connections to skate on duties, was slovenly and disrespectful, lied about fulfilling his duties, and ultimately avoided the bare minimum involvement to fulfill his commitment.

The press fucked us all with their cowardly refusal to cover the story and their morally traitorous efforts to bury the obvious. What's worse is that they simultaneously slandered and misrepresented the acts of a true war hero, John Kerry.

This is one of the most disgusting chapters in American Journalism.

[Colorado Blue]

58. Yes!!!!!! I was appalled by the whole thing and NOBODY...

has ever disputed the essential facts of the story.

There has got to be a way to use legal means to stop these guys.

[mdmc]

59. man, I didn't know this...

the big MO is a national treasure!

[Catherine Vincent]

63. Correct!

And now with the news of the Daschle campaign tipping the media of Gannon's naked pics on the internet over a year ago, and nothing was done about it, is proof that the media is disgusting.

[glitch]

66. Make this it's own thread - so I can nominate it for greatest.

It really needs to repeated as much as possible. Good work.

[Vidar]

49. Sounds about right. Be nice to nail the machievel.

[Callboy]

51. Like I have always been saying ROVE ROVE ROVE

If you dont believe it, watch documentary Bush's Brain

[2diagnosis]

54. So what is the story?

I thought that the documents were not faked, there have been threads proving they were easily produced by 70's typewriters. Why would Rove provide real docs?

[MidwestTransplant]

57. Forging government documents has to be a crime I would think.

[Kilroy003]

61. Did anyone ever track down Lucy Ramirez?

[katty]

64. Hinchey's comments quoted in Variety today

the forged docs had rover's greasy paws all over them

[lovuian]

67. Rove fingered over fake documents behind CBS story

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=005886047510c4f7

Big News Network.com Wednesday 23rd February, 2005 (UPI)

Rep. Maurice Hinchey says Bush advisor Karl Rove was behind faked documents CBS news used in a report concerning the president's military record last fall.

The New York Democrat first made the comments during a meeting of constituents in his upstate district Saturday.

He repeated and clarified his stance to CNN Tuesday, noting while he has no proof of Rove's involvement in the discredited fake documents, circumstantial evidence -- along with Rove's record of past political behavior and dirty tricks -- points to the top Bush advisor as possibly the Machiavellian mind behind the faked service reports, which were used to impugned Bush reserve record.

more...
Machevelian is a good word!!!

[tridim]

68. Good!

But did they have to use the word "fingered" in relation to Rove? Ewww..

[seriousstan]

69. noting while he has no proof of Rove's involvement in the discredited fake

"noting while he has no proof of Rove's involvement in the discredited fake documents, circumstantial evidence -- along with Rove's record of past political behavior and dirty tricks -- points to the top Bush advisor as possibly the Machiavellian mind behind the faked service reports, which were used to impugned Bush reserve record."


So what is the circumstantial evidence other than Rove's record?

[Blue to the bone]

77. We should hold ourselves to the same standard of proof....

....that we demand of others when they make unfair claims about us. Otherwise, we are no better than they.

While I'd love to see this officially hung around Rove's neck, Hinchey looks silly in this story.

[paineinthearse]

75. Woodruff interview video

http://crooksandliars.com/



Maurice Hinchey on Karl Rove

Inside Politics:

Woodruff: As we reported a little while ago in our blog segment, the Internet is abuzz with reaction to comments by New York Democratic Congressman Maurice Hinchey. The congressman over the weekend shared his views about the now disputed CBS News report about President Bush's Air National Guard service. Representative Maurice Hinchey is with me now, he joins us from Albany, New York.


REP. MAURICE HINCHEY (D), NEW YORK: And then the issue of the CBS Dan Rather event came up, and I said that there were false documents or documents which were falsified and presented as being accurate and there was a question as to where those documents came from. And in the context of the discussion I suggested that -- my theory was that I wouldn't be surprised if it came from the White House political operation, headed up by Karl Rove.

More from Digby: It's Irresponsible Not To As Peggy Noonan so memorably wrote about the "little Elian" drama:

Was Mr. Clinton being blackmailed? The Starr report tells us of what the president said to Monica Lewinsky about their telephone sex: that there was reason to believe that they were monitored by a foreign intelligence service. Naturally the service would have taped the calls, to use in the blackmail of the president. Maybe it was Mr. Castro’s intelligence service, or that of a Castro friend.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

[Blue to the bone]

78. How's this speculation? Did Rove shoot JFK? n/t