BTK Killings Suspect Hid in Plain Sight, AP ~ Saturday 2/27

[mzmolly]

"In Park City, the suspect's neighbors said he helped elderly neighbors with yard work but described him as an unpleasant man who often went looking for reasons to cite his neighbors for violations of city codes.

Bill Lindsay, 38, lived behind Rader and said his wife caught Rader in their adjoining backyards filming the back of their house.

"He really acted really funny," said Lindsay, a truck driver. "I'd be on the road and my wife would tell me, 'Dennis has been out again, taking his pictures.'"

Jason Day, 28, said his brother was in Rader's Cub Scout pack at the nearby Park City Baptist Church, but their mother pulled him out because of Rader."

Interesting to note that they caught him because his daughter allowed them to test her DNA.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20050227/ap_on_re_us/btk_killings_44

[Senior citizen]

1. Hiding? He was NOT hiding.

He didn't have to hide.

He could even taunt the police, believing he'd never be caught.

After all, he's a white male and a pillar of his community.

He doesn't get pulled over for driving while black.

He isn't subject to stop and search.

Every white male in this country know that he will get less jail time, if any, for embezzling millions, or even billions of dollars, than a young black male will get for possession of crack cocaine. If the white male in question is CIA, he may have imported that crack cocaine, and will never be penalized--or even have to face trial because it might expose matters of "national security."

Every white male in this country knows that if he wants to rape, murder, or even Bind, Torture, and Kill, certain less-valued citizens, such as the poor, the homeless, women, children, gays, prostitutes, etc., he usually has a free pass for the first dozen or so.

War criminals, serial killers--it doesn't matter. White males in this society don't hide, they thumb their noses at you and congratulate themselves on how they're fooling everybody.

Then they report you to the authorities for some minor offense, or if they happen to BE an authority, they penalize you harshly and lecture you on morality.

[mzmolly]

2. Well frankly, MOST serial killers are white males.

I don't think the cops give serial killers a free ride, regardless who they murder. It's just difficult to catch them because they are not "aquainted" with their victims in most cases.

I do agree with some of what you say, but that's subject matter for another thread perhaps?

:hi:

[Zuni]

52. exactly right

Serial murders are very difficult to solve, as are all stranger to stranger homicides with no witnesses

[readmoreoften]

57. LUTHERAN KILLER BINDS TORTURES AND KILLS

There's one headline you'll never see.

HETEROSEXUAL SERIAL KILLER STRIKES AGAIN.

There's another.

If he listened to heavy metal the nation would be in a 'Satanic Panic' but when the 'church-going' republicans torture and kill, welp, belief systems, entertainment, and sexuality have nothin' to do with nothin'.

I bet outraged parents won't be clamoring to outlaw his album collection. I bet people won't be afraid to leave their children with heterosexuals or lutherans. I guarantee there will be no backlash against straight, white Lutherans.

[northzax]

3. um, while I understand your frustration

I would wager that the a disproportionate number of unsolved homicides in this country are committed by African American males.

Why? well, if you look at homicides in the US from 1976 to 2002, (516,631 victims, jesus that's a big number) 51% of the solved homicides (about 70% were committed by African Americans. Lest you think this is overly skewed towards the 'solved' number, the solution rates for white victims and black victims are within one percentage point of each other. Since Blacks are only 12.9% of the US population (in the '00 census) that means that Blacks are much more likely to be both the perptrator of a homicide and the victim of a homicide. (there are a multitude of reasons for this, most of them economic, that's another story) (numbers: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/imputationandweighting.htm)

What does this have to do with your point? You are much more likely to get arrested for killing someone if you are a white male.

[NorthernSpy]

37. ???????

Why? well, if you look at homicides in the US from 1976 to 2002, (516,631 victims, jesus that's a big number) 51% of the solved homicides (about 70% were committed by African Americans.

This sentence is totally incoherent. I've read it several times, and I'm still not sure what, exactly, you're trying to say.

Lest you think this is overly skewed towards the 'solved' number, the solution rates for white victims and black victims are within one percentage point of each other.

The numbers given in Table 3 of your own source contradict this:

Table 3. Case Solution Rates by Victim, Location, and Incident Characteristics

(Victim Race.......number/%solved.......number/%unsolved)
White..............196,819 72.60%.......74,227 27.40%
Black..............172,241 69.10%.......77,133 30.90%
Other..............8,007 71.90%.......3,134 28.10%

The black and white solution rates are clearly not "within one percentage point of each other".

[Undercover Owl]

48. serial killers are disproportionately white & male.

There is the occasional black or asian serial killer, but most are white. A female serial killer is very uncommon.

[puddycat]

51. serial killers usually kill within their own race, but they are ANY color

there have been serial killers every place on Earth. The only reason here in the USA we have the odd reasoning that they are usually white is that our culture was so biased against non-whites that our government didn't care if a serial killer was hunting down non-whites, and hence there was no media attention on it.

[Zuni]

53. Some of the most prolific and least known have been in other countries

There is one in Mexico, in Juarez, who has killed countless women and is still loose.
Pedro lopez of Peru killed as many as 350 girls.
There was one in pakistan who killed over 50 children.

They are not caught as often in other countries, as many of the third world nations do not have the resources that the FBI Serial Killer teams have.
Since their resources are more primitive, and they are less likely to publicize (like the USSR who kept the lid on the Rostov Ripper investigation for years--the people had no idea a very dangerous serial killer/cannibal was preying on children for more than 10 years)

[BrendaStarr]

56. Not one.

The most likely scenarios a group of rogue policemen or local officials from what I've read.

[Turley]

4. I think you're getting just a tad hyperbolic

Every white male in this country knows that if he wants to rape, murder, or even Bind, Torture, and Kill, certain less-valued citizens, such as the poor, the homeless, women, children, gays, prostitutes, etc., he usually has a free pass for the first dozen or so.

I mean really, just a touch over the top don't you think?

[Demeter]

46. I Don't Know....

I mean, gee, look at Bush's record. And even his lovely wife Laura got one free kill.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

30. Also, it is my understanding that most serial killers want to be caught

That's built into the mentality that does the serial killing in the first place.

That's why there's always the cat and mouse game with the police and the back & forth of information.

It also explains why this guy hadn't (allegedly) killed anyone in more than 10 years, and yet started sending the police a flurry of critical information in the last year or so.

[montana_hazeleyes]

50. Well,

I don't think they want to get caught. They think they are smarter than everyone,including all law enforcement etc.

And we don't know that this guy hasn't killed in the last ten years as you said. I think he just wanted more attention.

These guys are psychopaths. There is nothing deep down inside that wants them to get caught. They feel they should do whatever they want and should suffer no penalty for it.

[Conservativesux]

59. Thats quite true. They are all sociopaths, no matter color, race, ect.

After a decade of laying low I doubt he was trying to be caught.

[Blue to the bone]

33. I think you need more fiber in your diet. n/t

[RedCloud]

42. that would be a cereal killer then!

Why else do those cheerios have bullet holes through them?

[sarcasmo]

5. Of course he was a regular at church.

[daner]

6. Neighbor BTK

One must wonder about those who crossed Rader professionally under his "supervision" whether dog or human, child or adult, male or female. The personal and professional ambition to express power over the small and the mortgaged with over due home repairs, to cross privacy lines with impunity (with an eye for "justice") seem to fit with the profile of a perfect card carrying Republican Party member. Aren't we all thinking this individual manic lust for order is really the agenda. And as time goes on we are welcoming more unmanageable individuals with truely hostile agendas into the civil ranks. The scariiest thing for myself is, although this is an extreme case, that this person is lurking to smaller degrees more pervasively than ever within all of our communities. This case may provide an opportunity for clarity in regards to where we are truely headed and a foil to show that justice for all certainly isn't what Mr. Rader was implementing.

[mzmolly]

9. Welcome to DU! Ted Bundy was also a Republian, now that you mention

it. :shrug:

Scary stuff indeed.

[republicannincompoop]

25. So was John Wayne Gacy, in fact, a prominent fundraiser

for Republicans.

[depakid]

31. Well, duh- they are sociopaths, after all

Birds of a feather flosk together....

[XanaDUer]

40. Actually,

Gacy was a prominent Democrat. He even had a picture of himself with Rosalyn Carter.

http://crimemagazine.com/boykillergacy.htm

[daner]

44. that's integrity

The New York Times was right about this blog being self correcting very quickly, that blogs are the new journalism.

Thank you for the link

[XanaDUer]

45. Thanks.

I am into true crime, so accuracy in that area is fairly important to me. In all areas, actually.

[Zuni]

54. nope. he was a Dem

[bloom]

11. "this person is lurking to smaller degrees"

It is such a nuisance not to be able to trust people... but yeah. I used to live in a little town. There was a man associated with/worked for the Christian Church in some capacity who was the Boy Scout leader. Seemed like a nice guy.... Found out later, after he had moved to another community that he confessed to molesting boys.

[Hamlette]

7. does anyone know how they caught him?

I've heard the part about his daughter's DNA but why did they take her DNA? I also read they had tested many DNA samples. Was the daughter tested at random?

Just curious.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

32. I read somewhere that they ended up getting DNA samples

from a few thousand citizens of the town.

The police were so desparate for a lead they just started going around asking folks to volunteer DNA samples.

The daughter probably volunteered thinking that she had nothing to hide.

[Hamlette]

41. that was my best guess based on what I've read too.

[Kingshakabobo]

38. I'm taking a guess here:

Maybe he was stupid enough to lick the envelope he recently mailed to the police thereby leaving a DNA sample.

[AngryAmish]

43. He left DNA at a crime scene in the 70s

(I think the DNA was the result of a sexual act at the scene of the crime)

This guy never had his DNA in a database. His daughter was tested, found to be similar, then they looked at her father.

[Rex]

10. That's pure fear-terror sensationalism in the headline.

The man was a smart criminal. It is time we recognize that clever people can be evil as well as good. I mean, come on! No one hides in plain site the dude was weird, but not any creepier than a large portion of America. I'm not going to be paranoid about my neighbors just because I don't like them!

I'm wondering if he got his motivation from watching other white males (like Bush) order death and destruction? Probably a white identity movement fella.

[daner]

29. anti respect/anti Bill of Rights in plain view

Was it really illegal to park a boat in your driveway in Park City? Is a back yard really subject to building code inspection when not used as a rental property? Either the city for whom he worked provided a wide job decription that no one understood the limits of, or challenged, or could afford to challenge.

I'm saying his authority was insidious, as was the fear that eroded the willingness to question its range.

I don't want our country to become a Park City!!!!

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

12. BTK suspect confesses to at least 6 slayings

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[diamond14]

13. BTK Suspect Could Appear in Court Monday (suspect & victim both in USAF)

('suspect' installed home security systems....'suspect' served in USAF at same time as his first victim)


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050227%2F2016946370.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20050227KSSO101


BTK Suspect Could Appear in Court Monday

By DAVID TWIDDY

WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - A man suspected in a string of 10 slayings that terrorized Wichita residents for more than three decades was being held Sunday on $10 million bond and could appear in court as early as Monday, prosecutors said.

------------------------------------

Charlie Otero, whose parents and two siblings were BTK's first victims in 1974, said Sunday that he was ``waiting with anticipation'' to learn more about the DNA evidence that has been credited with helping crack the case.


Otero believes his family was targeted, although the rest of BTK's victims were likely chosen at random. He isn't sure why the family was targeted but said it's interesting that Rader and his father served in the Air Force at the same time in the 1960s. ``I'm sure this will all come out during the trial,'' he said.


------------------------------------

Before becoming a muncipal employee, Rader worked for a home-security company, where he held several positions that allowed him access to customers' homes, including a role as installation manager. He worked for ADT Security Systems from 1974 to 1989 - the same time as a majority of the BTK killings.


Mike Tavares, who worked with Rader at ADT, described him as a ``by-the-books'' employee who would often draw diagrams of houses and personally make sure technicians installed systems correctly.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

14. BTK suspect confesses to at least 6 slayings

WICHITA, Kan. - The man suspected in a string of 10 slayings that terrorized Wichita residents for more than three decades has confessed to at least six of those killings, according to a source with direct knowledge of the investigation.

advertisement
Investigators now suspect Dennis L. Rader may have been responsible for as many 13 slayings — including at least one that occurred after the death penalty was enacted in Kansas, a source with direct knowledge of the investigation told The Associated Press on Sunday on condition of anonymity.

Rader was being held Sunday on $10 million bond and could appear in court as early as Monday, prosecutors said.

At that appearance, Rader would stand in front of a judge on video while prosecutors recite yet-to-be filed criminal charges against him. The judge would also review Rader’s bond and set a permanent amount.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988048/

[diamond14]

15. ahhhhh...compassionate conservatism in action.....

-snip-

“I can’t believe we have that kind of system,” said Nottingham, 67, of Grand Lake, Okla. “I think if you committed a murder, you ought to be hanged.”

[True_Blue]

16. Service somber at church where BTK suspect was leader

WICHITA, Kan. — They worshipped next to Dennis L. Rader for years, sharing the same pews and singing from the same hymnals.

They knew him as a Cub Scout leader, a respected church official, a kind friend.

Now, members of Christ Lutheran Church must confront the possibility that 59-year-old Rader is something else: The BTK serial killer, blamed for 10 deaths in the Wichita area from 1974 to 1991.

"We feel dismay, anger, devastation, utter shock and disbelief. The very foundation of our faith is shaken," Gerald Mansholt, bishop of the Central States Synod of the Episcopal National Church, said during Sunday's service.

more....
http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/02/27/nation/doc422271f11d1d0115484884.txt

[BamaLefty]

17. I Bet

Scary stuff.

Hypocrite!

[diamond14]

19. "Central States Synod of the Episcopal National Church"....and

for years, they sheltered a 'suspect' serial KILLER....


"denial" about bush* war on Iraq is also a favorite....with full support for WAR....and claiming YOU SHALL NOT KILL does not apply to them....

[Ellen Forradalom]

23. How exactly were they supposed to know he was a serial killer?

Seriously. How were they supposed to know? If they did not know, they 'sheltered' him in all innocence.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. The name of the denomination doesn't make sense

If it's a Lutheran church, no problem, because Lutheran churches have synods.

But Episcopal churches do not have synods: they have dioceses (in the U.S., each state has one or more dioceses, depending on population) and provinces (made up of regions of countries).

One or the other is wrong.

ON EDIT: According to their website they're a congregation of the ELCA, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is normally the most liberal of the Lutheran churches, although in Kansas, who kows?

I'm not sure where the "Episcopal" part came from.

[BeHereNow]

18. Oh.My.God.

Can you imagine the shock of those people???
Learning that they had left their children with
him?
Holy crap!
What a freak show they have woken up in!
How scary would that be???

BHN

[onehandle]

20. They shouldn't have trusted him.

Cub Scout leader...ok.
Church official...nothing wrong with that.
Friend...always a good thing.

But this guy was a Registered Republican.

There's your clue.

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. That's a bit simplistic

don't you think?

[onehandle]

27. Nope.

All Republicans are potential serial killers.

I stand steadfast with my analysis.




Of course I was kidding. I just took the chance to point out that the guy was a Registered Republican according to Lexis-Nexis.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. "Daddy, he tricked us — didn't he?"

Bob Smyser, a fellow usher at Christ Lutheran, said his 5-year-old son recognized Rader's photo when it was flashed on the television screen at home. The boy looked up at his father and asked, "Daddy, he tricked us — didn't he?"

"I am not sure what to tell him," Smyser said. "I am not sure what to tell myself."

I'd tell myself a Nick Cave lyric:

It ain't that in their hearts they're bad
They can comfort you, some even try
They nurse you when you're ill of health
They bury you when you go and die
It ain't that in their hearts they're bad
They'd stick by you if they could
But that's just bullshit, baby -
People just ain't no good

People they ain't no good
People they ain't no good
People they ain't no good
People they ain't no good at all

[Ellen Forradalom]

24. Now THAT is a what-do-we-tell-the-children moment

Far, far worse than explaining 'oral sex' after the Starr report came out.

[libodem]

28. don't you know oral sex is much worse than murder?

And with the moral example of, detain, torture, and murder, set up for us by our illustrious administration, maybe he'll be dismissed. That's the right way to treat detainees. After all he WAS a Christian. And probably a Republican. I bet he voted for Bush.

[Tansy_Gold]

47. Why is the "foundation" of their faith shaken?

I don't understand this.

Isn't their faith based upon the notion that human beings are sinful creatures from the moment they come into this world and are only redeemed by the suffering and death and resurrection of the god-man they call Jesus the Christ?

How can it shake their faith to find out that one of their number was a sinner?

[puddycat]

49. Ha! You read my mind! I was just about to post the same thing

why would the foundation of their faith be shaken?

[Conservativesux]

61. Perhaps they are not a faithful as they think they are...* sure isnt. eom.

[Conservativesux]

60. No kidding. They could have been one of his victims and they know it.

[What Is This Crap]

34. must have taken levels of shadowdancer

HiPS kicks ass.

/i got nothing

[bin.dare]

35. Daughter turns in alleged US serial killer (BTK)

A 31-year hunt for a sadistic serial killer known as BTK appeared to have ended in Kansas at the weekend with the arrest of a man who was turned in by his daughter.
Dennis Rader, 59, a married father of two and a former church leader, was arrested in Wichita, Kansas, in connection with at least 10 murders dating back to 1974.

BTK - a self-coined nickname for "Bind, Torture, Kill" - sent rambling letters to the media. In one, he asked: "How many do I have to kill before I get my name in the paper or some national attention?"

Mr Rader was arrested after his daughter, Kerri, 26, reported her fears that her father might be the killer. Police asked her for a voluntary blood sample. They found it was a 90% match with BTK. They then placed Mr Rader, a former scout master, under surveillance. They said they had detained him "without fuss" after pulling him over in his car.

(more)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1427016,00.html

[matcom]

36. "breaking news"???

don't have to even do a search on this one.

[mzmolly]

39. Good for her! The poor thing though.

:(

[moondust]

55. BTK is a registered Republican.

According to a lawyer/author on Larry King.

[sea dee]

58. lol sadly Gacy was a Democrat

lol sadly Gacy was a Democrat