Bush Adviser Seeks Debate on Patriot Act

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON - The White House's homeland security adviser asked attorneys Thursday to help foster an honest debate over whether to reauthorize controversial anti-terror laws.

Fran Townsend said White House support for extending the entire USA Patriot Act, which expires at the end of the year, is "unequivocal." That law, which was passed in the wake of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, gives the government broad surveillance and law enforcement powers in terror cases.

"In the debate over the Patriot Act, we often hear about that delicate balance that we rightly must make between freedom and security," Townsend told the American Bar Association. "I value that debate. The president values that debate. And it is important. What is equally important is that we not permit this valuable tool to be caught up in unnecessary rhetoric."

"I encourage you to keep that debate honest," Townsend said. "...We really should try to divorce this from partisan politics."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_go_co/us_terrorism

[Jack Rabbit]

1. Translation: The noise machine well oiled and ready to run

!!

[madrchsod]

2. not again!!!!

dam i just wake up and now i just read that there`s another big pile of shit to shovel...i guess i`ll call in sick. the whole homeland security is a bad joke, the bush thugs won`t even fund the dam thing.

[htuttle]

3. Terror warnings on the way!

Code Orange! Secret Al Queda Cells! Terror! Terror! Terror!

...Until the day after they vote to reauthorize the PATRIOT act, and all the threats vanish in a puff of smoke until they're needed again.

[shawcomm]

8. Yep. It's just unbelievable that they are getting away with what they are.

We'll have terra alerts out the ass the closer we come to this. Amazing that the terraists have cut back now that the elections, etc. are behind us.

[ixion]

4. the unPATRIOTic Act is unconstitutional

and should NOT be reauthorized. It should never have been authorized in the first place. :grr:

[Frederik]

14. But ixion

now you're full of the "unnecessary rhetoric" that he warned us about!

[Yosie]

5. Bull Turd

Last fall I asked my two Judicial District members of the California Board of Bar Governors to include "Constitutional Law" among the mandatory subjects on our "Mandatory Continuing Legal Education" requirements. Never heard back. Never!

The mandatory subjects now -

Ethics -ok
Malpractice Prevention (Management of trust funds and client funds) -ok
Diversity (It's California - ok)
Recognizing and dealing with substance abuse (It's California - ok)
Stress Prevention???? (It's California - what do you expect)

Constitutional Law in Law School -You can get an ABA accredited law degree from an ABA accredited law school with only 2 credits of Constitutional law. 2 friggin credits. And that includes 42 USC 1983 and Criminal Procedure. Two friggin credits.

Constitutional Law on The Bar Exam
Not covered on the Multi-State (Multiple Choice Bar Exam).

Twenty to forty minutes on the six to twelve hours of essay exams.

As I opened with -- Last fall I asked my two Judicial District members of the California Board of Bar Governors to include "Constitutional Law" among the mandatory subjects on our "Mandatory Continuing Legal Education" requirements. Never heard back. Never!


You wonder why we have the "Patriots Act" and Attorneys General approving torture. That's the debate I want to have on the mis-named Patriots Act.

[UpInArms]

6. What the PATRIOT Act threatens

What Rights are Being Threatened?

http://www.plu.edu/~cvlright/current/rights.html

First Amendment: Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press
Ex: United States Attorney General John Ashcroft's attempt to close the courts to the public and the media in deportation hearings not only violates the accused trial rights, but it is a violation of our freedom of speech and press because the public isn't even allowed to participate in the event to formulate an opinion, let alone speak their mind on the issue. Also, press are prohibited from writing anything about the trials. Court reporters are forced to seal the court records as CONFIDENTAL and never speak of the happenings to anyone. (Court Splits).


Fourth Amendment: Protection of Unreasonable Search and Seizure
Ex: With the new ease of obtaining search warrants ( for more information, visit FISA), homes and personal property are becoming much easier for authorities to search. Authorities no longer even have to go through the court process of obtaining a warrant. The question of whether all these searches are legitimate is what is at the center of this debate. Additionally, the underlying privacy implications of the fourth amendment are being completely ignored. With the overwhelming increase of security, surveillance, and searches being performed, Americans are in theory being 'searched' multiple times daily. (Savage).


Fifth Amendment: Due Process
Ex: Many accused terrorist-related criminals are being detained for long periods of time before they are even charged with a crime. They are unaware of the evidence that is being used against them. Many are prohibited to speak with a lawyer. (Seeyle).


Sixth Amendment: Fair and Speedy Trial
Ex: Because detainees are being held for so long without even being charged of a crime, they are inevitably robbed of their right to a fair and speedy trial. Additionally, suspected terrorists or assistants to terrorists, rather than being tried in civil court, are denied their right to a fair trial with a fair appeal process and are being tried in military tribunals. (Seeyle).


Seventh Amendment: Trial by Jury
Ex: Deportation hearings of those suspected of terrorist related crimes are supposed to be closed to outside parties of any kind. This includes a jury. (Duffy).


Eighth Amendment: Cruel and Unusual Punishment
Ex: The question of whether or not the FBI is permitted to use torture as a method to obtain information from suspected terrorists is still in question. Additionally, although little is known about the conditions in which suspected terrorists who are being detained, there are many suspicions that the facilities and conditions in which they are being held are less than adequate and could be considered cruel. (Johnston).


Tenth Amendment: States' Rights
Ex: The paramount concern about states' rights is the large volume of federal legislation that is being passed in the name of 'national security'. There is concern of whether or not the federal government is overstepping it's boundaries and passing legislation that is really within the states jurisdiction. (Greenhouse).


Fourteenth Amendment: Equal Protections
Ex: The question at hand here is whether or not suspected terrorists deserve the same rights as 'innocent' civilians. Also, there is concern that suspected terrorists are arrested and detained due to the racial profiling of what a terrorist might look like. (Glaberson).

[MsMagnificent]

15. One big Kickaroo

[RawMaterials]

16. kickaroo to the second power

[Cocoa]

7. so this is what the Pentagon anthrax was for n/t

[shawcomm]

9. Another thing, I still can't believe people are all for any legislation

titled, 'Patriot Act'. The mere naming of this shows how awful it is - implying that certain rules must be followed to be a patriot, also implying that any dissent to the enaction of these rules means that one is un-Patriotic, thus unAmerican.

I don't have the time to go into a rant about the Fatherland, I mean Homeland...

[applegrove]

10. Now who on the floor is not going to vote to protect America?

And then they can frustrate and anger the left supporters of the Democratic Party. My Karl Rove must be having fun... either:

1) Dems vote for it and alienate and demoralize their followers... and threaten that big tent
2) Dems who vote against it get accused on being soft on terror in the next elections.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

11. I call BS that they are open to debate.

Here in MA, many towns passed resolutions against the Patriot Act. Then when it really started to pick up, there were tons of letters sent out to people in towns where the resolution was to be voted on from ASSCROFT. I'm talking about a town of 7,000 people, tops. :eyes: So the town dropped it from their town meeting, unfortunately. Though they are still fighting it, and hoping to bring it up soon.

http://www.bordc.org/index.html

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. Stalin and Hitler asked for opponents to speak up, too....

...and that was the last thing they ever said.

[Al-CIAda]

13. This is the ongoing price for NOT exposing the TRUTH of 9-11

More to come...die sucker.