Saudi hand makes US uneasy

[ze_dscherman]

FALLUJA - United States officials in Iraq are becoming concerned over increased activity by the Saudi government and by radical Wahhabi groups in Iraq, and while some of this is welcomed, the rest is not.

The Saudi government is certainly engaged in charitable work and in aiding the Iraqi people, but US officials are more troubled by the presence of radical Sunni Muslim Wahhabi groups. The Wahhabis are a puritan movement associated with the Saudi dynasty, and officials say that some of them may have the direct or indirect backing of factions within the Saudi government.

More: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EG15Ak02.html

[oneighty]

1. A Puritan movement?

Kinda like our very own Christian Fundies! Karma is a bitch.

180

[Julien Sorel]

2. Wait a minute here.

In what way is what the Wahhabis are doing different from what the American fundamenatlist screwballs are doing? They were licking their chops at the prospect of converting heathen Arabs to the path of righteousness and salvation, but that was OK, while the Wahhabi efforts are not? Separation of church and state takes another blow.

[lkinsale]

3. Wahhabis believe religion IS the state

Why do you think Saudi is like it is, with the Vice and Virtue police? That's Wahabbism. Making schoolgirls stay inside a burning school until they die because it would be "immodest" to let them be seen escaping the fire w/o veils. That's Wahabbism.

About 10 years ago I did a good deal of research into the Wahabbi sect in the 18th/19th centuries for a novel. Those guys are bad news, and always have been. The "royalty" in Saudi Arabia is baloney. There's no tradition of kings in Arabia. The Saudi were just another tribe at war with all the other tribes, until Wahabbism came along to light a fire under them, and they got hold of Mecca. They were all starving in tents before oil. If you can imagine the most intense Christian fundamentalists in total control of every minute of everyone's life, and taking us straight back to the days of the Spanish Inquisition--that's Wahabbism.

We really don't want that to take hold in Iraq. We'll be damned lucky if it doesn't, even if we try to keep them out. 9/11 traces directly back to Mohammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab in the 18th century, by way of today's Saudi "royalty."

On edit: The reason the House of al-Saud supports Wahabbism is because it's their historical claim to sovereignty and control over the oil. So they are now between quite a rock and hard place.

It is indeed ironic, and really bad news.

[Julien Sorel]

4. Just out of curiosity,

how do you think any monarchical dynasty gets started? They are all started via bloodshed in one way or another; claiming that the House of Saud is somehow worse than, say, the bloody history of the English monarchy implies a perception of bias, to put it kindly.

Beyond that, I fail to see how preaching Wahhabism is worse than preaching fundamental Christianity. Christianity has a far more violent history than Islam does, especially recently, when nearly all the wars, and all the major wars, have been started and almost entirely fought by countries steeped in 'the Judeo-Christian' tradition. A religious fanatic is a religious fanatic, whether he be Jerry Falwell preaching discrimination against gays and the like, or Abdul al Sheikh upholding what are, ultimately, the traditions of his people. Given the chance, Falwell or Ralph Reed or any of those crazy b*st*rds would construct a state every bit as repressive as the Wahhabis have in Saudi Arabia.

[lkinsale]

5. I said their claim to "royalty" is baloney

I didn't make any comparison of them to any other monarchy. That seems irrelevant to me. (However, the short history of the rise of Wahhabism is every bit as bloody as the history of the European monarchies and church. Wahabbism came into power by extremes of the sword, I assure you.)

Maybe Falwell would be just as bad. I'd say keep him out of Iraq, too, myself. But Wahabbism is intricately entwined in the political power position of the Saudi government, and so to dismiss their attempts to expand it into Iraq as merely a matter of "allowing separation of church and state" is to miss the fact that they will try to impose their church AS the state. This is what they are all about. This is why the Saudi government is hand-in-glove with them.

Wahhabism is a particular sect of Islam, it is not the "traditions" of the people of Arabia. It started with a single prophet in the 18th century (quite probably a Falwell type) who said Islam must go back to its "roots." His definition of its roots, of course. Most other Muslims seriously disagreed with him, and still do. The Saudis, however, aligned with him and on a wave of religious fanaticism and tribal expansionism, conquered the Arabian peninsula. Their encroachment was by no means welcomed by their neighbors. But they won. And so they imposed their fanatical brand of Islam as the "official" brand in Arabia. All of this is pretty recent history as religions go.

In any case, my main point was to say that it's not a simple matter of "separation of church and state." If only.