Abu Ghraib convict breaks silence (graner implicates higher-ups)

[Rose Siding]

A key figure in the Abu Ghraib detainee abuse scandal has given Army investigators a lengthy sworn statement accusing others of misconduct at the Iraq prison.
The statement from Pvt. Charles Graner, who is serving a 10-year prison sentence at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., comes as the Army may file more charges in the case against personnel who supervised military police officers such as Pvt. Graner. He had first refused to talk, but later agreed under a grant of immunity.
....

Pvt. Graner, a member of the 372nd Military Police Company, stated that a civilian contractor and military intelligence officers all told him it was OK to play rough.
"I was instructed to start sleep-management programs by on three high-profile prisoners," he said, according to a 10-page statement, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times
....

Pvt. Graner said an Army sergeant from the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, visited Abu Ghraib as a consultant in 2003. He quoted the visitor as saying "the gloves came off" after the September 11 attacks. "In a phrase, I was to manhandle them and treat them rough," Pvt. Graner said. "If a prisoner was not following your instructions, smack them around a little or use cold water, such as throwing a 1.5-liter bottle of water on them. Use the sandbags as hoods always."
He said that when he complained to a captain that the MPs were breaking the law, the officer replied, "If MI (military intelligence) tells you to do things, it is OK, and follow their instructions."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050412-103013-3822r.htm

[liam_laddie]

1. WT?

Strange that the WT would run this. It's a severely right-wing rag
owned by Murdoch (Faux News, etc.) and (IIRC) the ever-lovable
"Rev." Sun-Yung Moon. It would seem to reflect badly on the DOD. Are "they" working Rumsfeld's chain? Negroponte
wants full control, Rummy will resist. This news tends to undercut Rummy. Oh, the court intrigues!

[Rose Siding]

18. Their bias is always very obvious but

sometimes they get stuff others don't- with an agenda no doubt. Their party is in power and they are tapped in.

[truth2power]

2. Well, well. Pvt.Graner, who looked so happy in those photos,

finds that no one gives a sh*t if he goes to prison for "following orders". Telling what he knows.

Look for him to commit "suicide" before long. Depressed, don'cha know. :evilgrin:

[Dhalgren]

3. Nobody gives a damn.

And besides, as far as the Emperor's Bully-Boys go - who's going to believe a jail house "Tilly"; answer - nobody...

[davidwhite0570]

5. plenty of people have been convicted because of jailhouse

snitches.....he has nothing else to lose

[Dhalgren]

8. Not the Emperor and his butt-boys.

There is no way in hell a convicted torturer is going to give "evidence" that hurts anyone in the BFEE that they want protected. You have to know that. Sybil Edmond has been screaming her head off with evidence of TREASON (and she hasn't even been arrested for anything) - nobody gives a damn. Valerie Plame? Nobody gives a damn. 1600 dead US soldiers, 15,000 wounded? Nobody gives a damn. 100,000+ Iraqi civilians killed, countless wounded? Nobody gives a damn.

Gas prices going up? Who cares. Wages falling behind cost of living? So what? Unemployment the highest ever? Big deal.

Gays getting married? HELL NO! EVERYONE CARES! OH MY GOD! THE WORLD IS ENDING!!

Sorry, I am just a little disgusted this morning...

[frictionlessO]

9. Thats a good enough rant for its own thread!

In disgust... I concur completely.

[saigon68]

13. Nice Rant. I stand in Awe

[oneold1-4u]

16. Loved it!

Guess I better go take my vitamins so I can dance to your new tune! LOL

[Ganja Ninja]

4. I expect he'll hang himself if this behavior keeps up.

Pointing the finger of blame at higher-ups has a tendency to do that to people.

[Mist]

6. Odd he didn't mention any of this BEFORE his trial - could have

shortened his sentence?

[SheepyMcSheepster]

7. "a few bad apples" and all that........ eom

[HereSince1628]

10. I think a few bad apples that came from very close to the top of the tree

We know what went on in the prisons, we know that Rummy actually approved what were essentially torture methods and that Gen. Sanchez did the same. What we don't have is the connection through the middle, if there are some comany and field grade officers that spill their guts there may be an accounting.

[Dhalgren]

11. Yeah, that's when the "suicides" and

the "one-in-a-million" accidents start happening. No officer or official with any standing will ever be permitted to testify against the Emperor, never...

[DulceDecorum]

12. ... "the gloves came off" after the September 11 attacks.

And yet, the federal Bureau of Transportation Statistics has no record of Flight 11 not Flight 77 ever taking off or landing on September 11. Due to intense questioning, the BTS has now been forced to "adjust" its website.

The foreign owners of these planes had leased them to American Airlines and at this point, it rather appears as if those leases expired on or before September 11, 2001.
According to the FAA civil aviation registry, both foreign owners asked that the US registration be canceled since each plane has been destroyed on January 14, 2002.

United Airlines has sued in an attempt to discover the identity of the owners of the two foreign owned planes that are alleged to have crashed on September 11. The titles of both UA planes appear to be held in trust by the State Street Bank and Trust Company, which company features PROMINENTLY in the many woes visited upon United Airlines. Surprisingly enough, both these planes remain listed, and in good standing in the US civil aviation registry and one of them, N591UA, is said to be operating out O'Hare while using the alias N594UA.

That Osama sure is sneaky.
Those Muslims just won't stop breaking the Laws of Physics.
http://911search.bravehost.com/twintails591UA.html

We now return you to the brutalization of the Iraqi people.

Pvt. Graner said an Army sergeant from the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, visited Abu Ghraib as a consultant in 2003. He quoted the visitor as saying "the gloves came off" after the September 11 attacks. "In a phrase, I was to manhandle them and treat them rough," Pvt. Graner said. "If a prisoner was not following your instructions, smack them around a little or use cold water, such as throwing a 1.5-liter bottle of water on them. Use the sandbags as hoods always."
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050412-103013-3822r.htm

[nolabels]

23. 9/11 a hoax no doubt but that's of no matter

The G.I. needs to not to follow unlawful orders. If he was that whipped and couldn't tell them NO than he should not have been in the military anyway. You could almost bet he talked to a few fellow inmates on what he did wrong after the fact.

To that end I wish him luck and I hope this story crawls up a little higher but I doubt it. They have them young G.I.s not knowing which end is up unless told, it's sad and makes them sitting ducks if there ever is a real war.

[w4rma]

14. Private Graner was railroaded. He did not have the information available

to him to be able to know not to follow these orders. In fact, when he got to thinking that there were probably some illegal and unethical actions being committed he was then advised that these orders were okay to follow by his superiors.

[Dhalgren]

17. Anyone who follows orders to torture someone

should get at least 10 years in maximum. Any torture that follows "when he got to thinking that there were probably some illegal and unethical actions being committed" are all first degree and he deserves no leniency. The Iraqi prisoners received none...

[Az_lefty]

15. Graner might be a scape goat for higher ups

but he participated willingly. If their going to go up the chain of command they need to go all the way to the top, to those who OKed the torture policy.

[David Zephyr]

19. Kick!

n/t

[struggle4progress]

22. and again

:kick:

[byronius]

20. All of this is just so evil and sick. Bin Laden has defined us.

Right underneath the slick E-paint coating thrives medieval hearts and dark utopian souls. Every time I see that photo of Graner punching hooded, helpless men, it fills me with rage for all the people I've known like that in my lifetime who filled positions of power with a calm and certain cruelty. Principals with heavy, carved wooden paddles; bad Arizona highway patrolmen screaming in faces; all the mean, sick, and twisted shitheads who spend all their time carefully drawing philosophical diagrams that artfully connect the imposition of agony and humiliation on the fearful with 'God' or 'Good' or 'Cause'. (Some don't even bother with that.) I hesitate to offer any of the standard futurist prescriptions like brainwipe or forced personality alteration (who controls it?), but I WANT THEM TO DISAPPEAR. All of 'us', everyone I know, and everyone here at the magnificent Democratic Underground -- what if we didn't have to expend so much effort straining to hold back the Stunteds from their apocalyptic course? What if TIA could spend all his free time studying the statistics of food delivery programs, or designing medical supply distribution systems? What if all our debate was fiercely directed towards how to accomplish the generally-agreed-upon Liberalities, and the guy in the room who insists on the mean view is JUST NOT THERE?

Someday. Somehow.

:tinfoilhat:

[bobthedrummer]

21. The neo-conservative dominated traitors that promoted torture have

actually increased the likelihood of the abuse of Americans caught up in conflict.