Tillman was urged to pursue early discharge(Could have done what Bush did)

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/0416tillman16.html

Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 16, 2005 12:00 AM

Pat Tillman had an option.

Four months before dying in Afghanistan, he learned that he could opt out of his military service and that National Football League clubs were clamoring for his services. snip

Ferguson also urged Bauer to speak with Tillman about pursuing a discharge. For a soldier of Tillman's status, nearing two years of full duty including service in a war, receiving an honorable discharge before his three-year enlistment was up was a distinct possibility.

Given Tillman's image and the NFL's cozy relationship with the military, it's hard to imagine that he would have been denied his chance to return to pro football.

more

[paineinthearse]

1. Bush NEVER served a day in combat conditions nt

Don't understand your headline.

[NNN0LHI]

2. Bush left the National Guard early also. To go to college

There are soldiers right now who are being forced to stay in the military because of Bush's stop-loss orders who want to get out. Yet Tillman was given the option to leave even before his initial three years were finished to play football. That doesn't seem right to me. And that is the real story here.

Don

[Mend]

9. I believe chimp left early, as in awol, to work on a political

campaign in Alabama.....

[NNN0LHI]

11. Actually he did both

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/163815p-143464c.html

<snip>Sept. 18, 1973 Arranges to leave the Guard six months early to attend Harvard Business School.

[punpirate]

22. Even that story...

... has some unanswered questions. There are some who believe that he was discharged from the Texas Air National Guard in order to be free to sign up with a Massachusetts unit to finish the remainder of his six years, because it was against regulations to be a member of more than one unit at a time, except for temporary duty.

The next obvious question is that regulations at that time permitted active duty release up to six months early to attend school. Were the same regulations in effect at the time for reservists?

And, the press continues to get the story wrong on other details. Bush didn't get discharged to go to school. He was already in school when he applied, so he had simply left, again. Second, from the time that he wrote asking to leave the TANG, he had fourteen more months left on his commitment. (Everybody forgets that he signed an agreement upon entering flight school that he would serve five years upon completion of flight school. He completed flight school in late Nov., 1969.)

And, even if the ANG had ignored that little bit of paper, it would have been seven and a half months from his actual TANG discharge to his six-year anniversary date at the end of May, 1974, not six months. The military doesn't work that way. The active duty regs are written in such a way that one can't even apply for an early discharge unless the proposed start date of school is within six months of the end of the normal term of service. I know--I made such an application and got out two months early to go to school. Bush would have been making application, for that purpose, on a not quite nine-month term between start of school to his six-year anniversary date.

The last interesting question is: if he was completely discharged from his air national guard obligations in Oct., 1973, why did Bush write the national ANG months later asking to be put on inactive reserve status?

So, in any event, there's no relation between Bush's early departure and the possibility of early discharge held out to Tillman. Entirely different circumstances.

[goodboy]

3. ok, so tillman wasn't a coward obviously, but he was certainly very

naive.

[Vogon_Glory]

5. Integrity. Tillman Obviously Had It

Some people have integrity. I believe that Tillman obviously had it. Naive or not, he was going to serve out his full term of enlistment.

I admire people with integrity, whether I agree with them or not. People who practice integrity set a standard of honor and decency that many sleazy politicians, especially "Dear Leader" and the others holding our Republic by the throat, would do well to emulate.

[goodboy]

21. you'll get no argument from me there...(nt)

[mhr]

4. I Fail To Understand The Fascination People Have With A Jock

That was stupid enough to fight and die for Bush.

[0007]

8. I'll second that!

The big story is why did they lie to try to make Tillman a hero! Then when the truth came out that he was killed by friendly fire and not by trying to save comrades from certain death at the hands of the evil, they said "so what" he'll still a hero, because he turned down money to play football to fight a just war.

[annabanana]

14. people are impressed by someone who does what he says he will

nothing more, nothing less

on either side of the coin

good or evil

[mhr]

15. I Always Do What I Say I Am Going To Do And It Gets Me In

Nothing but trouble.

So I don't think that is it.

[Orsino]

18. People are impressed by self-sacrifice...

Football heroes who give up lucrative lifestyles for an ideal...a monk who sets himself ablaze...a suicide bomber. Each of these is impressive in its own way. I think it's easy to see why Tillman is popular. He's also conveniently dead, with a lid over the exact circumstances. Tailor-made hero.

He did what he said he'd do at great personal cost, placing himself in harm's way. I think he was a sucker to believe he was fighting for his country, but at least part of his heart was absolutely in the right place.

[mhr]

19. Whatever - The Man Does Not Impress Me In The Least

Stupid Is As Stupid Does.

Fighting and dying for Bush is stupid!

[Orsino]

20. Really?

Can you not muster a little more respect for Tillman than for the armchair patriots who never lifted a finger in support of their war?

[mhr]

26. Honorably Discharged Naval Officer - I Would Not Fight Or Die For Bush

I have the DD-214 to prove the service.

[acmavm]

6. bush** disobeyed orders by not taking his physical, he didn't show up

for duty (which I believe is being AWOL), and then he got Poppy to get him out of the TANG altogether.

Where's the comparison? I'm confused?

[NNN0LHI]

7. Poppy got him out of the TANG altogether early

The NFL was going to get Tillman out the the military altogether early. There it is.

Don

[dArKeR]

10. No respect for Tillman. The military was NOT his career. He went to

kill for fun? Did he know anything about:

The road to September 11
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/EdDesk.nsf/All/3043C0B91612E654CA256AD2000148E5

[tabasco]

23. Your post doesn't make any sense.

You don't have to be a career soldier to serve one hitch. Tillman had a sincere desire to serve his country. A lot of citizens have that desire and serve one hitch. You should be thankful there are people like Tillman because if there were no volunteers for this dangerous duty, YOU would likely be drafted.

Tillman joined up out of a sense of duty. We did have a just cause to attack in Afghanistan. That is the war Tillman joined up for. Not Bush's fraud oil wars.

Bush betrayed Tillman and all the rest of he military by launching the Iraq war without just cause. Do not place the ire for that decision on the soldiers who joined in good faith.

edit typos

[Neshanic]

12. He died for his beliefs, Jane Fonda has a new movie out.

You have to give some slack to a guy that died fighting.

By the way Jane looks FABULOUS!

[robcon]

13. All the more reason to respect Tillman, IMO.

From my understanding of his personality, he would not have taken advantage of an early release, but my admiration grows with news that he knew he could have gotten out.

[JI7]

16. from what i knew about those who knew Tillman

he really was a good guy. in school i heard he was very much into learning and respecting different cultures and dealing with issues of race equality etc.

and didn't he always get around on a bike ? he had the money to get some very expensive car or have someone else drive him. but he used the bike to get around.

Tillman is also an atheist so he is an example of people not needing religion or God to have certain values to live by.

i use to think maybe he was naive, but i'm not so sure anymore. it seems more like he just had certain values or beliefs and stuck to them.

[NVMojo]

too bad Bush didn't do what he did, like actually go to Viet Nam...

the results would have meant a different USA today....

[NVMojo]

17. too bad Bush didn't do what he did, like actually go to Viet Nam...

the results would have meant a different USA today....

[thebigidea]

24. what a shame hundreds of thousands of other soldiers don't get that choice

so the NFL now gets to decide how long soldiers serve?

the fuck? where does a stupid association dedicated to a damn game get off wielding influence here?

[tabasco]

25. They do.

Any soldier can submit a form 4187 for change of status.

It is pure speculation whether Tillman's request for an early out would have been approved.

It is the Army's decision, not the NFL's. Maybe if the Army thought they could use Tillman in recruiting efforts, they would have approved his request.

[Melynn]

27. I have respect for Tillman's character

Tillman didn't think that someone else should go fight a war that he supported. I give him props for that.

People keep saying that the Repugs should go fight the war that they support. Tillman did.