Arms Equipment Plundered in 2003 Is Surfacing in Iraq -NYT

[Rose Siding]

Equipment plundered from dozens of sites in Saddam Hussein's vast complex for manufacturing weapons is beginning to surface in open markets in Iraq's major cities and at border crossings.

....

Interviews with people who identified themselves as arms dealers or members of the resistance in Baghdad, Falluja and other Iraqi cities indicate that a parallel black market operates in the explosives looted from some of the same sites. In fact, sketchy descriptions by members of the Iraqi resistance suggest that the arms market is also a highly developed enterprise with brokers, buyers and looters who have stockpiled their products, including artillery shells, mortar rounds and Kalashnikov rifles. One former Iraqi army officer who said that he had joined the mujahedeen said that in Sadr City, for example, a few trusted brokers would take prospective buyers to weapons caches that ranged in size from a few rounds buried in a garden to whole rooms of ordnance. If the broker and the buyers agreed on a price, the buyers would arrive a day or two later with a vehicle to drive their purchases away. The broker and the stockpilers would have worked out their respective cuts in advance.

http://nytimes.com/2005/04/17/international/middleeast/17equipment.html?hp&ex=1113710400&en=3ede49ee978f9b37&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Igel]

1. "Dozens of sites" is a truly conservative estimate.

Would of taken a fair percentage of the invasion force just to guard them all, assuming we even knew where they all were.

[tabasco]

6. There were major sites that should have been prioritized.

If you leave all kinds of weapons lying around for potential enemies to pick up, you are violating the principles of war, such as security.

The Iraq invasion & occupation are examples of military incompetence. Tommy Franks did not take any steps to protect the force from these weapons. Many sites could have been secured with a squad plus.

Now we are in a quagmire. Thanks to chickenhawks. FUCK YOU BUSH and all your scum robber baron traitor friends.

[Igel]

14. To be sure.

There were large caches and small caches.

[al bupp]

2. Sounds Like Free Enterprise to Me

Perversely, I have to admire the entrepreneurial acumen implicit in Iraq's black market in arms.

My apologies in advance to any offended by this sentiment.

[MADem]

3. There is a strong business sense in that part of the world

It isn't racial, it is cultural. And of late, the issue is survival. There is an attitude that, if you CARED about it, you would PROTECT it from theft. If you leave things lying about, expect them to be "liberated" for use by others. This is in great contrast to Japan, where you could leave your video gear on a park bench, come back an hour later, and still find it there.

It is a point of pride to be able to wheel and deal, to strike a fair or advantageous bargain in the ME and SWA. There's also a bit of sport and socializing involved in the whole process. Over here, haggling is not done, but over there, it is factored into the economy.

[NNN0LHI]

7. I disagree with "Over here, haggling is not done"

Actually it is done by many people. Like me for instance. I never make a major purchase for anything or anywhere without haggling. That goes for K-Mart, Sears, Lowe's, Menard's, or any business establishment. Many people just do not realize that you can. It is not publicized. If the store refuses to haggle, I just say thank you and go somewhere else where they will. It works more often than not. Try it sometime. You may be pleasantly surprised. Most people either just don't know, don't want the hassle, or are just plain to shy to ask for a reduced price. I kind of enjoy it myself.

Don

[MADem]

8. I meant "routinely"

If you go into a corner store in that part of the world, it is common practice to demand a discount, based on your loyalty and patronage to the establishment. After a bit of banter, you get your rake-off. We don't see that going on routinely at the Safeway, the WalMart, or anywhere else. It would make the lines a nightmare. You are a clever 'exception' to the rule.

As you yourself pointed out, most people don't know, don't want the hassle, or are too shy...thus, it is 'not done here' as a matter of culture and practice.

[NNN0LHI]

12. If I still shopped at China Mart I would do it there. I have in the past

But I would never do it at the check out in any store. The check out person does not have the authority to make price reductions. I find the manager before I get to the check out and do my bargaining with him or her. Take care.

Don

[Todd B]

4. But...

But how is the oil? That's all in tact, right??!

I mean, we have to protect the oil! *g*

[Randi_Listener]

5. RDX shit.

Did they find any of that missing 380 tons of fucking high explosives?

[rzemanfl]

9. From time to time as it blows up. n/t

[Roland99]

10. Bah...that article's full of Qaaqa

[Cocoa]

11. remember, Rudy Giuliani blamed the troops for this?

the hero Rudy sacrificed American troops to protect the AWOL chimp. :mad:

[maddezmom]

13. yes, and according to rummy

looting was just part of bring democracy. :eyes: