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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:29 PM
Original message
O'Connor Dismisses Ado Over Int'l Law
O'Connor Dismisses Ado Over Int'l Law

By HOPE YEN
The Associated Press
Thursday, April 21, 2005; 10:05 PM

WASHINGTON - Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on Thursday dismissed growing criticism about the Supreme Court's use of international law in its opinions, saying it makes sense for justices to look at foreign sources when a point of law is unclear.

O'Connor, a Reagan appointee, participated in a lively one-hour discussion at the National Archives with Justices Antonin Scalia and Stephen G. Breyer. She said if there is no controlling U.S. precedent or the viewpoint of states is unsettled, "of course we look at foreign law."

"This is much ado about nothing," she said in response to a question by moderator Tim Russert of NBC. "Our Constitution is one that evolves. What's the best way to know? State legislatures - but it doesn't hurt to know what other countries are doing."

O'Connor's comments come amid a growing divide on the court over the citation of international opinion to support decisions interpreting the Constitution. Last month, justices ruled 5-4 to outlaw the death penalty for juvenile killers, citing in part international sentiment against it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7770-2005Apr21.html
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, oh - she used the word "evolves"
Death threats sure to follow.
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LSdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. you mean our constitution wasn't divinely created
on day 7, just like it says in genesis, completely immutable, unchanging throughout time as god intended?
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Shame on her for believing
one MLK is worth more than 3/5 a James Earl Ray
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh! My God!
Evolve! Good on her! I am favorly surprised.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Considering her opinion on
executing the mentaly retarded changed since 1988, I'm not totally surprised.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. wow

State legislatures as the font of wisdom. A notion which would never occur to anyone who has ever worked with or in one.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It makes sense.
They are closer to what is actually happening on the ground.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. you might be surprised

Look at your own state leg and get back to me.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I have looked at it.
But that's not the point. The point is that the state governments are sometimes already dealing with the issues. It is a place for the Supreme Court to look for guidance. I think that's reasonable.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. of course it is

But you seem not to realize to what extent the Rehnquist Five use state leges as a pretext. The doctrine of deferring to them even has a name in American jurisprudence: judicial passivism. It's a subordinating of justice to power, for one thing. It also ends up privileging (by falsely pretending to equivalence) what the many cowardly, small backwards states do or don't do over what the few bold large population urban states do- it's anti-democratic by pretending to democracy. Conservative courts in this country have generally resorted to this variety of trick for centuries. What it really is is one of the three branches of government giving up its responsibility, of putting justice and standards up to a vote and in the hands of aging incumbent state legislators, who are more conservative than their constituency even. It's a very strong conservative bias mechanism.

Here in Mass. the anti-same sex marriage crowd bleated about how "voters should decide" rather than "activist judges"- but when the first polls came out showing they weren't necessarily goin to win a referendum, suddenly they weren't talking about that anymore, excoriating the state, and asking for "national consensus". Asking for federal intervention. And suing the state under the Guarantee Clause for imposing judicial "tyranny". (Yes, they got laughed out of court.)

At the time Loving v Virginia was decided (1967), opinion polls showed 90% of American voters disagreed with interracial marriage. That number was 50% in 1990. Wanna take a guess what deferring to state legislatures would have meant to interracial couples? Legalization in 1995, or 2000? (Well, maybe they would have prevented Yoko from marrying John, then the Beatles would never have broken up, and we'd be living in Paradise.) That's what the tyranny of the majority means.

Basically, there's no perfect way. Arguably the political function of the U.S. Supreme Court is not so much to decide what is just (as Oliver Wendell Holmes famously told one appellant, "This is a court of laws, young man, not a court of justice") but whether American society is ready to accept a particular increase in justice and responsibility

Here's a classical example, not even two months old, of the kind of thing that goes on with pretending that what state legislatures have done is particularly indicative. Compare Scalia's dissent to Kennedy's plurality opinion. What Scalia doesn't tell you in his claims about the national consensus, prevaricator that he is at bottom, is that the death penalty for juveniles had roughly 40% support, 60% opposition in national polling if not better.

http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-633.ZD1.html
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. She better watch out - tom delay's gonna come gunning for her.
Or he'll send one of his wackos out to do it.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. Delay will be at her jugular
She should probably have extra protection.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. interesting. so she thinks we're all in this together? how... realistic.
the thugs are going to get their undies in a bunch over this.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. Burn in Hell, please, Madame "Justice."
I don't need to hear another word out of your Reptile lips after 12/12/2000. You could have saved this country from bu$hler, but you sold right out.

Shut the fuck UP.
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