NYT: Pope Has Gained the Insight to Address Abuse, Aides Say

[kskiska]

VATICAN CITY, April 22 - For the past four years, the man who is now Pope Benedict XVI had more responsibility than any other cardinal for deciding whether and how to discipline Roman Catholic priests accused of sexual abuse.

On Friday mornings, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sat in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith poring over dossiers detailing allegations of abuse sent in by bishops from around the world, according to two top officials in his office. He found the cases so disturbing that he called the work "our Friday penance."

(snip)

When the scandal was snowballing in 2002, Cardinal Ratzinger was among several Vatican officials who appeared to minimize the problem.

"In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than 1 percent of priests are guilty of acts of this type," he said in November 2002 during a visit to Spain. "Therefore, one comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated - that there is a desire to discredit the church."

But as the cases began to flood into his office, he learned that the problem was both broader and deeper, according to co-workers and American church officials.

more…
http://nytimes.com/2005/04/23/international/worldspecial2/23priest.html?hp&ex=1114228800&en=c4518c831b340f10&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[BadNews]

1. Now that the foxes are gathered he wants to refill the chicken coop.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. No, it's NOT OK, but the media generally neglected

mentioning that 1-2% of all men are pedophiles so in any subset of men, like all Catholic priests, all police officers, all Jewish rabbis, all married men, you can expect 1-2% to be pedophiles.

For Catholics, it's pretty damned annoying that everyone trashes the Catholic Church because there are pedophiles in the priesthood but they don't trash businesses, schools, other churches, etc., that employ pedophiles.

If you've got a foolproof way to stop pedophiles from becoming priests, let me know and I'll be happy to send your idea to the US Councill of Catholic Bishops and the Pope himself.

(Please don't suggest allowing priests to marry -- not because I oppose it but because a majority of pedophiles ARE married men!)

[dsc]

7. It isn't the numbers, it is the cover up

I can't speak to business, but I can speak to schools. No school system is going to shuffle pedeophiles about. It was the shuffling about of pedeophiles which was the problem.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Cover ups occur in businesses and schools because

normal people have difficulty believing that an employee who seems perfectly normal to them could be guilty of molesting children -- and such abuse is often difficult to prove. Pedophiles often select victims who have already been victimized sexually, physically, or emotionally, quite likely in their own homes. I'm sure you must have had students who had been molested by their fathers, stepfathers, uncles, older brothers, often with their mothers enabling the abuser to hurt them. When a child has been abused for years, proving new abuse is more difficult, if the child even reports it.

Most employers are probably also aware of fraudulent abuse charges being made against teachers and others. We've had at least three cases in this state in the past few years in which the kid or kids eventually admitted they fabricated their story about a teacher. So at least some principals and superintendents will be wary of allegations, especially if they think the accused is a normal person. All employers want to avoid bad publicity, too.

Teachers have often been let go from their positions and given references after agreeing to leave town. Obviously, no administrator worth his salt would send a pedophile off to another school, but administrators aren't always the sharpest knives in the drawer, as you've surely noticed! ;-)

And people don't want to ruin someone's life over a suspicion or a hint of a problem, or even an unproven allegation, knowing that kids sometimes lie to make trouble for a teacher. Not every school system has passed on a pedophile, but not every bishop covered up for pedophiles, either. And bishops are not always the sharpest knives in the drawer, either, which has been part of the problem. You find stupidity in any line of work -- look at the cops who made headlines when they handcuffed a 5 year-old yesterday!

[dsc]

15. Most states have mandatory report laws

which cover both teachers and administrators. If I even suspect, let alone know about, abuse of any kind I must report it or lose my licence.

[October]

16. You're so right...

So many people are so busy taking this "personally," as Catholics...that they fail to see the issue. It was the
way in which these priests were protected when it was known
that is so unconscionable.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

20. There is nothing wrong with Coke hiring pedeophiles

provided they don't surround them will children, know the children are being abused, and then transfer the employees to a new batch of children when it gets found out. The Catholic Church did all of that.

[0007]

22. How does one recruit a pedophile?

Through the newspapers, networking?....I wonder if the police are interested in Coke's recruiting technique.

[Spangle]

3. Why report it?

The church wouldn't do anything about it.

The familys of the victums would be afraid their children would be publicly labeled as sluts and homos.

Now that there is media attention on this matter, maybe reporting it would get somewhere NOW.

[Bob3]

4. So is that why Cardinal Law is in the Vatican?

I mean if he was the point man on abuse then the decision to get Law out of Boston before he could be indited must have been his right? It stands to reason yes?

What they say means nothing, what they do means everything.

[flordehinojos]

5. i really believe that much of ratzinger's theology comes from St.Augustine

of Hippo.

A lot of it having to do with St. Augustine's own feelings of guilt and need for PENANCE/REPARATION/and MEA CULPAS due to his own previous past as a womanizer.

Notice that according to the article, Ratzinger called going over the abuse cases, "OUR FRIDAY PENANCE"...

Catholics of very good stripes, including very good priests, were taught to deal with sex and sexuality (based on such Augustinian teachings) by repressing sexual thoughts, by doing penance for such thoughts, impulses or actions through confession, the praying of the holy rosary and/or the taking of cold showers.

The world evolved in many ways. Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and Masterson and Masterson and sex and sexuality the subject of their studies, their theories and their books were no longer confined to books kept hidden in the shelves and the subjects in them were no longer thought of as "things not to be talked about in good company" ... but people began to talk about sex and sexuality openly.

Ratzinger stayed stuck in the Augustinian theology.

He has a lot to learn.

And it must be humbling for him to have to go back and look at so much and be so little prepared to look at all of the things he might now be looking at.

I HOPE HE HAS GOOD TEACHERS IN HUMAN SEXUALITY who can guide him through the pouring of those documents and illuminate his mind so that he can give WHATEVER the most appropriate response to those abuse cases are.

To come in to the papacy with one set of expectations as to what his role is, to find himself in the midst of a tsunami he did not expect and was taught to deal with in such a different way as he is having to do now, must be sooooooo humbling.

And we would all do well, i think, to give him credit for even being open to revisit the issue.

After all, our own homegrown despot won't even look into the possibility of any mistakes he has made---and THAT IS the real mark of a real despot.

:-)

[DemBones DemBones]

8. It's a pleasure to see a thoughtful post in a thread like this.

It is, of course, far easier just to demonize the pope and lash out at the Catholic Church.

It's especially interesting that so many who no doubt believe in "situational ethics" are unwilling to examine the situations that shape the ethics as well as the personalities of others. We are all influenced by when and where we grew up, the people who raised us, the people who educated us; we don't create ourselves out of thin air.

I think it's very promising that Pope Benedict XVI has spent years dealing with the sexual abuse cases that gained such notoriety and that he is said to be a good listener and a capable administrator. Micro-management was apparently not the style or strength of John Paul II and he may have given bishops too much power/ freedom in some ways, though they are supposed to have a certain level of independence. He also made some poor episcopal appointments, most notably a German bishop who resigned last year after a sex scandal in his diocese's seminary was exposed. John Paul had actually planned to promote that bishop a year or two earlier but Cardinal Ratzinger convinced him not to. There's a plus for the new pontiff.

I believe that Benedict will work hard to solve the Church's problems and that's the most anyone can do. What's past is past and can't be changed.

I'll end this post by quoting your closing words:

"And we would all do well, i think, to give him credit for even being open to revisit the issue."

"After all, our own homegrown despot won't even look into the possibility of any mistakes he has made---and THAT IS the real mark of a real despot."

[flordehinojos]

18. thanks for your post....

:toast:

[Hekate]

9. Good post. An ex-priest friend of mine wrote about his life...

Armando Quiroz called his book a "spiritual autobiography" -- and I called it extremely informative, not just about his extensive journey but about the 20th century Catholic church and the way they handled sexuality.

As far as I could tell from his book, they handled sexuality in essence by saying: "don't look at it, don't touch it, don't do it, doth't think about it, because we don't talk about it" -- and this was to young men that had been recruited at the age of 12 or 13!

Armando was in the 8th grade in a parochial school when he was called off the playground to have a chat with the priest about going to seminary. He was a bright boy who was doing well at his studies, and this was an opportunity to have an excellent education. His parents were utterly thrilled at the thought of their son becoming a priest. At that very young age sex and sexuality were just a flutter on the far horizon, and the next year he left home to go to seminary.

He never writes about the sex abuse scandals, only about his own experiences; when he left the priesthood at 40 he married a grown woman.

What I realized through reading his book was that the Catholic priesthood was inhabited by men whose emotional and sexual growth had been stunted from a very early age. Everything to do with sex was repressed into the darkest recesses of their minds, and when some of them lost control they fastened their attention on children about the same age and gender as the stunted child in their subconscious. Some were indeed pedophiles preying on little children, just as in the general population; and some were ephebophiles, fixated on young adolescents. For most of the offenders,I don't think it was about being homosexual at all, I just think that women were too far off the radar.

In my mind, there's really no excuse for abusing one's power to abuse children, but I was trying to understand how an entire institution could have become so riddled with this phenomenon, even as individual priests were being made to pay for their crimes.

The piece of it that I have no interest at all in trying to understand is how the entire church hierarchy could have conspired to cover it up, not only by denial but by continually shuffling bad priests from parish to parish, thus compounding the crimes and the misery.

Let's all hope the new pope can clean out this stable.

Hekate

[Eloriel]

17. Hekate -- most priests go thru high shool before going to seminary

Your theory on the subject is fascinating, and no doubt correct for some, but let's get the factual part corrected, shall we?

Now, let's also say this: it's also true that when an intensely traumatic experience happens to a child, a part of that child gets stuck at that age, AND we also know that pedophiles are MADE not born (that they themselves were once upon a time victims) -- so this commment of yours is very apt:

What I realized through reading his book was that the Catholic priesthood was inhabited by men whose emotional and sexual growth had been stunted from a very early age.

I usually try to point out in most threads about child molestation that the perpetrator was once upon a time a victim himself (or sadly, in some cases, herself). That doesn't justify the behaviors, sins and crimes, but it does explain it and it DOES also put some burden back on society's shoulders, where it belongs. We MUST break these cycles of abuse, we must. (Child sexual abuse is only one -- also regular child abuse including emotional and domestic violence which is another form of child abuse whether the child is involved and directly abused or not.)

And one way to break the cycles of child sexual abuse is to make sure perpetrators can never get to another child, get intense therapy for any and all children who have been victimized (so they don't grow up to be victimizers), possibly make intense therapy available automatically and for free to would-be perps, further educate the public, etc.

Howard Dean instituted a program in Vermont that in its first 6 years or so cut child abuse by 43% and cut child sexual abuse by 72%, and yet only cost about $100 a year per child. It was the essence of simplicity -- visit EVERY new mother in the hospital and offer another visitation in the home (offer, not require it). Upon visitation, offer any needed services, whether job training, parenting skills training, etc.

This program pays for itself so many times over it can't be estimated. It WILL cut down prison populations, dramatically. It WILL significantly reduce the hidden costs to society of promiscuous behavior and out of wedlock birth, failed relationships and marriages, substance abuse and addiction, crime, etc. It boggles my mind to contemplate the end results of this fabulous, CHEAP, treat the disease not the symptom approach. IMO (only slightly overstated on my part) this one thing alone made him ultra-qualified to be President of the United States, because of its foresight and wisdom and effectiveness.

[flordehinojos]

19. Quiroz' book, you have well illustrated, is a shining example of the

antiquated theology regarding sexthat untold catholics grew up with. You have it so right when you say that as far as you can tell sexuality within the clerical ranks was handled by saying, "don't look at it, don't touch it, don't do it, doth't think about it, because we don't talk about it"...something which was also exported out to the laity, and I blame all of that on the writings of St. Augustine who needed to escape his own sinful past by doing just that, "don't look at it, don't touch it, don't do it, doth't think about it, because we don't talk about it".

And you are so right when you say, "... the Catholic priesthood was inhabited by men whose emotional and sexual growth had been stunted from a very early age. Everything to do with sex was repressed into the darkest recesses of their minds..."

That seems to be the place from where ratzinger is coming from... so may the Spirit guide him into some GOOD AND HEALTHY LESSONS ABOUT THE REALITIES OF HUMAN SEXUALITY ...

And by the way an entire hierarchy could have conspired to cover up the sex abuse scandals because their own way of dealing with sex, in the entire hieararchy was, "don't look at it, don't touch it, don't do it, doth't think about it, because we don't talk about it" --

Is the name of your friend's book A SPIRITUAL BIOGRAPHY? iT OUGHT TO BE RECOMMENDED READING FOR THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS POPE.

[Hekate]

21. Eldress, here's the title

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this -- hope it's not too late to be adding this note. I had to hunt for the book on my shelves.

"Spiritual Homecoming: A Catholic Priest's Journey to Judaism," by Armando Quiros, MA, JCL (I misspelled his name before) published by Fithian Press in 2001

BTW, this has been an uncommonly thoughtful thread for such an explosive topic. I know I skimmed over some things in my post, not wanting it to go on for pages, but I do have some personal experience with sexual abuse -- as some of you no doubt do as well. "My" abuser was probably typical: a sweet, nice, family guy with a wife and four kids, one of them me. I wasn't brutalized, but I was indeed abused. I know very well the inner confusion and denial, the pretending that everything's okay when it's flaming not. I know about being silent for twenty years or more, believing my silence would somehow protect my family. I became religious, and turned (ironically enough) to the Roman Catholic church, although ultimately I did not convert.

One of the LA Times' columnists has periodically written about the priests, the victims, and the cover-up (which has been pretty egregious in LA under Cardinal Mahoney). One time he wrote about the venomous attacks he's received from readers who think he's got some personal vendetta to besmirch their church. I wrote him that whether it's Daddy in the home or Father in the church, the betrayal of trust is the same. I urged him to continue writing as the story unfolds, because somewhere there is a young reader who is hanging on his every word, to whom his columns are a lifeline that tells them they are not alone. I know that because it was not until I was an adult that MSM like my local paper and Time magazine began to discuss this topic, and I searched every article trying to find some clue to my own story.

I've tried to understand, and I've tried to make my own life mean something. My confusion, silence, and denial meant that I failed to see my own child was in danger, and I have to live with that failure, too. I understand that my late father was without a doubt abused as a child, but I have belatedly concluded that our first duty when we discover someone is an abuser is not to psychoanalyze them or "forgive" them, but to STOP them from abusing any more children. The institutional church most emphatically failed in its fundamental duty to protect its most vulnerable members. These are grown men who have presumably spent their lives pondering and applying the great moral and ethical issues of all time, and they tell other people how they should live. I know what was wrong with me -- what's their excuse?

So I say: Good luck and Godspeed to Pope Benedict ne' Ratzinger in mucking out this stable. I hope he's up to the task, because it will benefit Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

Hekate

[Boomer]

10. Child sexual abuse is a crime

>> But other victims said they were satisfied when they learned through their local dioceses that the priest who abused them had been defrocked, or laicized. Only the pope can laicize a priest, church officials said. A priest can also be disciplined in other ways, like being ordered to spend the rest of his life in prayer and penance.<<

There has been no accountability for failing to report actions which are *legally* a crime. Instead, knowledge of this crime has been dealt with in the private confines of the church bureaucracy. This arrogance -- only the Church needs to be involved -- places the Vatican above the US government and its laws, even when these crimes were committed on U.S. soil.

That is simply unacceptable, or should be.

[emad]

12. Impossible to assess Papa Ratzi's record?

"It is impossible to assess Ratzinger's record. Information on the cases is secret, and according to longstanding rules, the Congregation and its staff do not release any information about specific cases, the number of cases they have considered, or how the cases have been handled. If a priest has been defrocked or disciplined in any other way, the information becomes public only if an individual bishop decides to release it.

Last December, the Congregation reopened one particularly high-profile case, against the Rev. Marcial Maciel, the elderly founder of the Legionnaires of Christ. Maciel is accused of abusing years ago eight men who had been young priests in the Legionnaires, and some of them had tried for years to have the Congregation hear the case.

David Clohessy, national director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, criticized Ratzinger for hurting many victims with his 2002 comments, but praised him for reopening the Maciel case. "That was, in fact, action, not words. So we want to give him credit where credit is due," he said.

The process of hearing the cases is slow, and some abuse victims complain that after they were interviewed by a church investigator and their cases forwarded to the Congregation, they never heard another word.

But other victims have said they were satisfied when they learned through their local dioceses that the priest who abused them had been defrocked -- the term in the church is laicized. Only the pope can laicize a priest, church officials said. A priest can also be disciplined in other ways, like being ordered to spend the rest of his life in prayer and penance."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/23/MNGBQCDVV91.DTL

Just for the record: The P2 Lodge, instigated in 1958, is a pedophile masomic cult which has infiltrated public life and acted exclusively on the orders of the KGB.

In Europe this meant via the Stasi, which developed extensive criminal networks in MI5, MI6, Interpol and other European countries' security/intelligence services. Its greatest successes were in corrupting Mossad.

An excellent book on how the Vatican was infiltrated is Piers Compton's The Broken Cross.

As for Ratzi's dirty pedophile secrets, many of these are held in the security/intelligence files on the God's Banker murder case, which resumes in Rome in October.

Last week the press reported a number of arrests and charges against those accused of the Calvi murder.

But the real villains, who caused the bankruptcy of Banco Ambrosiano, the downfall of the Vatican Bank (CEO Cardinal Marcinkus, who got a immunity from prosecution from George Bush Sr) and who ordered Calvi's assasination and now in public high office.

That means Poodle and Shrub, among - inter alia - other cold-war double agents plants in European political administrations as well as in the Curia.

[emad]

13. Pope 'ignored sex abuse claim against John Paul's friend'

By Peter Popham in Rome
23 April 2005


Pope Benedict XVI has been accused of ignoring for seven years charges that Fr Marcial Maciel, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ, had sexually abused nine teenagers in his organisation - because Fr Maciel was a close friend of Pope John Paul II.

In 1997 the then Cardinal Ratzinger was prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body which has the power to excommunicate priests guilty of sexual abuse, when Bishop John R McCann of New York forwarded him detailed charges of sexual abuse made by Fr Juan Vaca, a priest in Bishop McCann's diocese. The charges were in the form of a 12-page letter to Fr Marcial Maciel Degollado, who founded the Legionaries of Christ, a conservative Catholic evangelical order, in Mexico in 1941.

"Everything you did contradicts the beliefs of the Church and the order," Fr Vaca wrote in his open letter. "How many innumerable times did you wake me in the middle of the night and had me with you, abusing my innocence. Nights of fear, so many nights of absolute fear: so many nights of lost sleep, that on more than one occasion placed my own psychological health in jeopardy."

Fr Vaca was one of nine former members of Legionaries of Christ who charged Fr Maciel with having sexually abused them when they were teenage seminarians in the order in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. The accusers included three professors, a teacher, a lawyer and an engineer as well as the priest.
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=632210


BUT....here's the real problem, Archbishop Stansilaw Dwiwisz:

[Matilda]

23. Weird ... he could be Karl Rove's brother.

n/t