Ministers urge cancellation of 'Justice Sunday'

[Rose Siding]

A group of ministers representing about 17 Baptist churches in the Louisville area and a national Baptist committee that supports separation of church and state yesterday called on a Louisville church to cancel its planned "Justice Sunday" tomorrow.

"We see 'Justice Sunday' as part of a larger effort to link church and state in ways not seen in America since the Puritans were hanging Quakers on Boston Commons and exiling Baptists to Rhode Island," the Rev. Joe Phelps, pastor of Highland Baptist Church, said during a news conference yesterday.

.....

Phelps said there's no support for the premise that judicial nominees are being "persecuted" for their Christian faith, and that the ministers want the public to know the event does not represent "all Baptists in this city, or people of faith everywhere."

The Rev. Reba Cobb, a board member of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and former executive director of the Kentuckiana Interfaith Community, said: "No one faith or political party holds a monopoly on morality in this country. … Characterizations of public policy issues as the faithful versus the faithless are divisive, misleading and, perhaps worst of all, exploit religion for political purposes."

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050423/NEWS01/504230400/1008

[Solly Mack]

1. They understand that to save religion , you have to keep it

separated from the state.


If the right wing theocrats win, only their religion will be allowed.

We can only prevent this by keeping religion out of government. Prevent it from being used as a tool and a weapon of politics.

It won't be just us non-believers the right wing theocrats come after...it will also be people of faith who don't have the "right" faith.

[rocktivity]

17. DING DING DING! Solly Mack, you're our grand prize winner!

It won't be just us non-believers the right wing theocrats come after...it will also be people of faith who don't have the "right" faith.

That's a vitally important point. If you consider this a "non-issue" because you're not Christian or not religious at all, you're making a BIG mistake. I plan to watch the Justice Sunday webcast--I think we all should, if only to evaluate exactly what we're up against.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Solly Mack]

19. It's been my rally cry for a while now

:)

[BrklynLiberal]

27. Remember Neimoller's words

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

[Pachamama]

39. I had a really freaky incident yesterday that "shows" just this happening:

I went to my local grocery store with my child and as I was standing in line at the checkout, the female cashier starts talking about Pope Benedict to the person who bags the groceries. She went on and on about how he is going to be wonderful and all the people who criticize him are not true to God. She said that the "so-called Catholics" who support abortion rights and gay rights etc. were going to have to accept that the church and world was going back to the ways of God. After listening to her basically "rant" about Catholics like me (that she clearly didn't feel were worth dirt) I had to speak up. I told her that I was Catholic and that I supported women's reproductive rights and that I thought that Pope Benedict was going to be awful and that it was his dogma and strict "interpretation" that was turning people like myself away from the church. I told her that I thought it was wrong to state that "people like me" needed to accept his interpretations or else be denied sacrament in Communion. This woman went off on me and even went so far as looking at my 5 year old and saying "so that is what you are going to teach her? - what kind of mother are you?" I couldn't believe this woman who was an employee of a store was stating such things and now including my child in the conversation. I told her absolutely - that I'm the kind of mother who will teach my daughter to marry her best friend that she loves, even if its a girl, and to have safe sex and use birthcontrol. This woman turned to someone and said "see, these typical liberals"...I shouted at her that she was out of line and how dare she start name calling and that my views of faith have absolutely nothing to do with my politics.

Needless to say, I was shaking as I walked out of their and just was weirded out by that exchange...I've been going to this store for years and never had something like that happen...I think the fundies are getting a little crazy if you ask me...

I think they are going to keep it up too...we have to speak our minds and stop these people from trying to impose their values and faith on the rest of us...

[doublethink]

40. Wow ...... and your in California !!!!

Man I guess I need to get back out to society and see what's going on out there !!! I looked at your profile expecting to see you based in some Midwestern right wing fundi red state ... but not here in good ol Cali !!! You got that response from a cashier in our state? Geesh these people are losing their minds. I wanted to vote your rant for the greatest page but it's not an original post .... LOL ..... anyway, God Bless You. These poor people are only deceiving themselves. Peace. :)

[Pachamama]

46. Not just California, but in Marin County!

It amazed me too...it was at a local grocery store called Andronico's in San Anselmo which is a very liberal area in Northern California. I think that the "lesson" in this experience is that no matter where we live, there are religious extremists amongst us. I think they usually keep their mouths shut, but now with all the "Justice Sunday" and talk of "Nuclear Options" etc..., these rightwing religious zealots are feeling empowered and feeling emboldened to come out of the woodwork.

I think that the lesson here is that we all need to face these people head on and not let up and not let them think they will go unchallenged. If they think for a moment that we are all going to standby while they "take over", they better think again....:grr:

There is a reason for separation of church and state...and I intend on keeping it that way....this is about a fight for our Constitution...the one that was written versus the one they want to replace it with, which in their case is their "interpretation" of the Bible.

[crispini]

42. You should report that person to their boss.

That's not appropriate behavior for an employee. How freaky. :hug:

[Pachamama]

47. Your right - I should report that person...I was so stunned & had my 5 yr

old with me, that I didn't even know what to say (other than what I did say to her) but I needed to get home and I thought my 5 yr old had seen enough "confrontation" and weirdness to last her awhile. It upset me so much that I had actually been debating going back to the store again. But your absolutely right - I need to report this person and make it clear to management that her behaviour was completely inappropriate.

It was freaky...It wasn't as if she just said "Oh, I really like the new Pope and think he'll do great things"....she had to instead go on about attacking anyone who didn't happen to agree with his point of view and insult my beliefs. I don't think very much of * and this administration, but I don't go up to someone or in front of people start insulting them like that. I also thought it bizarre that when I defended my beliefs that she was attacking, she immediately switched to attacking me and calling me a "liberal" to another customer in the store.

I did have a few people out in the parking lot come up to me and say that they couldn't believe what she was saying and especially when she pulled my daughter into the conversation and questioned my "parenting skills and beliefs".

Freaky indeed...the Freaks are coming out of the woodwork and even here in Marin County, CA. I can only imagine how bad its gotten in Florida and the Bible Belt...

PS: I should note that my Father's family that escaped from Nazi Germany in 1939, said that this is the type of stuff that began early on in the Nazi years in Germany. And because it wasn't confronted and stopped, it only escalated until people were too afraid to say anything. This is why I think we need to all stand up to people doing this. Remind them that they aren't unopposed.

[all.of.me]

43. i wonder what the status is of her job now?

that is horrible to lash out at customers like that! i'd fire an employee that did that - great way to drive customers away. that is outrageous.

[Pachamama]

48. I don't know if her Manager knows, but it will be interesting to see when

I go in today or tommorrow and speak to him or her about this incident. The grocery store is also a small family owned chain (by Catholic Italians I might add) so it will be even more interesting to see how they handle this one since I'm Catholic too, but don't see the new Pope and his extreme doctrine to be what I agree with or care to follow. But the real issue is that its inappropriate for any employee, regardless of their political or religious beliefs, whatever they may be, to be talking about them while working and to be doing it in such an attacking way of anyone who opposes their viewpoint. I am the customer and she was out of line. I don't seek to change her viewpoint or the owners, but she shouldn't be trying to attack or change mine.

If they defend her, I will no longer shop there and I'll let people know about the chain. If they apologize and agree that it was inappropriate and tell her so, I will continue to shop there and ignore her when I'm there.

On the other hand, even if they didn't admonish her and even agreed with her, maybe I should still shopt there just to let them know they can't intimidate me? Hmmm....I'll just start wearing my Planned Parenthood shirts while shopping....Or one that says "Keep your Rosaries off my Ovaries"? :eyes:

[area51]

45. Pachamama

Pachamama, as someone else mentioned, please contact the store manager & make sure this employee doesn't get away w/her abhorrent behavior. I'm sorry this happened to you.

[understandinglife]

21. Precisely. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. That Ezell fellow...

Comes off as quite a twerp. The others come off like men of reason.

[Spiffarino]

32. I was thinking "massive dickhead"

...but twerp's good, too. :evilgrin:

[Roland99]

35. Here's a pic of the prick

hmm...url didn't work


it's here:
http://www.kybaptist.org/kbc/welcome.nsf/pages/bphighview

[Jade Fox]

3. Good news. n/t

[TahitiNut]

4. This story is being ignored by the national corporatist media.

Buried in the local press, it doesn't serve the corporatist/fascist cabal to portray Kevin Ezell for the utter and total fascist whackjob he is.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. But each one of these ministers

can talk about it in their church, in their church publications, and on local media outlets. We know the media is concerned only with forwarding the rw agenda, and we must use every means at our disposal to let people learn the truth.

[AuntiBush]

23. What Press?

We don't have authentic reporters anymore.

Talking Heads; they don't even know how to investigate, research or go after stories for the American people. No, I now see them as HUGE CORPORATIONS and the "talking heads" are like Barbie & Ken dolls - lookin' good and reading from scripts. All without getting off their lazy, greedy, sellout as$es!

We should have a Nat'l Internet Moment of Silence for the death of truth reporting.

[Flammable Materials]

5. I wrote an e-mail to Rev. Phellps church:

Please pass along my words of sincere thanks and gratitude to your
pastor for speaking out publicly against this so-called "Justice
Sunday" presentation. Seperation of church and state protect both.
I'm glad to hear a voice of sanity opposing this anti-American push to
remove not only the separation of church and state, but also the
elimination of checks and balances from our Federal government by
certain extremist factions in the Christian church.

If they want to live in a theocracy, I'm certain that Saudi Arabia
will be willing to accept them. Oh, wait, no they won't. And that's
precisely the problem.

This is a dark, dark era in our history.

Thank you for being a voice crying out in the wilderness.

[classof56]

12. Good letter!

As someone on DU once said, you use religion to sanctify politics, you get cheapened religion. So true!

[Fridays Child]

6. Rev. Reba Cobb properly reframes this issue...

...observing that so-called "Justice Sunday" will "...exploit religion for political purposes."

Fundie whackjobs need to be exposed as immoral men and women who abuse Jesus and Christianity for their own cynical and self-serving purposes.

[TahitiNut]

11. It's a shame the average person doesn't know what 'Pharisaical' means.

:shrug:

[Fridays Child]

20. "...beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

Matthew 16:11

[BrklynLiberal]

24. Definition....I had to look it up

pharisaical

adjective

Of or practicing hypocrisy: hypocritical, Pecksniffian, pharisaic, phony, sanctimonious, two-faced. See honest/dishonest.

[TahitiNut]

31. "Pecksniffian" ... I love that word. It's so Dickensian

:silly:

[leftchick]

7. If you want to live in a Religious State move To Iran

someone posted that yesterday. It would make a great bumper sticker.

[Roland99]

29. Goes in one ear and out the other

I was waiting on my daughter to come out of one of the YMCAs here in town (was dropping something off to her mother) and a guy came up behind me walking and saw the bumper stickers. He got up close to read them and walked off shaking his head. What a tool.

My bumper stickers?

Bush Was Wrong All Along and under that is Feel Safer Now?

Then, I have Republicans Against Bush and below that is the W with the red circle-slash.

Then, I have the America's No-CARB diet sticker

Then, on the trunk lid I have:
Keep Your Religion Out of My Government
Can't Wait Until 2008

And my EVOLVE fish

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Good for the ministers

I especially liked their pointing out how a theocracy (colonial Massachusetts) persecuted their denomination....maybe it will cause people to think a bit...hey, anything is possible.

Just GLAD that ministers are speaking out like this!!!!

[Rose Siding]

10. Another source...Bishop Hanson's and Rev Edgar's remarks target Frist

snip>
During a teleconference held with reporters Friday morning, Bishop Mark S. Hanson, president of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, called Senator Frist’s planned participation “divisive, dangerous and divisive of all those Americans of great faith who disagree with him.”

“The FRC has every right to hold an event with the message of their choosing,” said Hanson. “But the majority leader of the Senate should not lend credence to such an event.
....
Rev. Robert Edgar, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches, also criticized Frist’s participation and called it a hindrance to religious freedom.

“Truly none of us can miss the irony. Even as we fight for religious liberty around the world, the anti-democratic mentality is rising up here , Edgar said during the teleconference. “No longer are we allowed to freely express our views in opposition to a majority political party without being accused of being anti-Christian and anti-American.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/church/2054/section/protestant.leaders.criticize.sen.frist.for.justice.sunday/1.htm

[GOPFighter]

13. I emailed Pastor Phelps

thanking him for speaking out. i hope I guessed his email address correctly.

[Rose Siding]

14. Colbert King gives Phelps' group what for -in the Post today

Hijacking Christianity . . .

snip>
Which judges are out to rob Christians of their heritage? That is religious McCarthyism. Perkins should name them, provide evidence of their attempted theft of "our Christian heritage" or retract that statement with an apology. Don't count on that happening.
...
...Americans of faith -- and those lacking one -- ought to vigorously resist attempts by power-hungry zealots to impose their religious views on the nation. That means standing up to them at every turn.

It means challenging them when they say of Americans who support a woman's right to choose; the right of two adults to enter into a loving, committed, state-sanctioned, monogamous relationship; the right to pursue science in support of life; the right of the aggrieved to launch aggressive assaults against racism, sexism and homophobia, that they are not legitimate members of the flock. Where do those on the religious right get off thinking they have the right to decide who is in and who is out? Who appointed them sole promoters and defenders of the faith? What makes them think they are more holy and righteous than the rest of us?

They are not now and never will be the final arbiters of Christian beliefs and values. They warrant as much deference as religious leaders as do members of the Ku Klux Klan, who also marched under the cross.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10688-2005Apr22.html

[GOPFighter]

51. Slight correction

It was Rev. Phelps who opposes "Justice Sunday." I think you meant Ezell's group.

BTW, I received a reply to my email to Rev. Phelps. He said things have gotten ugly in Louisville because of this. I'm not surprised. Things are getting ugly all over America.

[cosmicdot]

15. UCC urged Frist to distance himself

Interjection of religion into judicial appointment debate is evidence of 'dangerous effort to divide,' says UCC leader

April 20, 2005

By J. Bennett Guess
United Church News

Joining other prominent religious leaders, the leader of the 1.3-million-member United Church of Christ today (April 20) called upon Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to distance himself from recent efforts to interject religion into the debate over federal judicial appointments.

The Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president, said Frist's planned participation in an April 24 telecast to churches - sponsored by the right-wing Family Research Council - "represents one more highly public and dangerous effort to divide this country by falsely accusing his opponents on the issue of Senate rules and judicial opponents of not being faithful."

~snip~

Thomas is one of many national religious leaders planning to send a letter to Frist on Thursday, saying, "It is simply not truthful to assert that supporting the filibuster amounts to an attack on people of faith."

"Since the election we've seen an intensifying of efforts by the religious and political right to dismiss and demean the faith and the moral commitment of those who disagree with them," Thomas told United Church News. "With all that threatens to divide Christians today, we don't need United States senators driving a wedge between us for self-serving political gain."

~snip~

" has moved the public dialogue into a new arena of divisiveness and mean-spiritedness where religion is being used as a weapon," Sorensen said. "It's incumbent upon us to respond when he says that people of faith in good conscience can't disagree on issues."

Thomas said it is dangerous when political leaders label differing
political perspectives as unfaithful.

~snip~

http://www.ucc.org/news/r042005.htm

[rocktivity]

16. They have the option of responding

why not have a Patriot Sunday the following week? Do a webcast talking about tolerance and the advantages of keeping church and state separate? Make it clear that they don't have the market cornered on God, or represent the Christ they worship. Just stand up to them, and they'll run like roaches in a light beam!

:headbang:
rocknation

[leQ]

18. i find it amusing when they fight amongst themselves....

don't you?

[Spiffarino]

34. I find it heartening

...that there are still Christians (and especially Baptists) that understand the difference between faith and politics.

What the FRC, Ezell, Frist, and the rest of the Christofascisti are after is raw political power. Christianity is merely the weapon they use to achieve their twisted goal.

Phelps et al want no part of their bizarre agenda. I am not amused, but I am joyful that there are still Christians in America who believe in the basic principles our country was founded upon.

[NVMojo]

22. good to know a few are left who know what it means to be a true

"follower of Christ!"

[BrklynLiberal]

25. Progressive Christians Speak out!!!!! Jim Wallis and Sojourners, etal

[Roland99]

26. Won't matter. Ezell is too far gone. He's literally insane with power

It's amazing how liberal some of the Baptist churches seem now. Ezell is cemented onto his path and he won't waver.

[ellenfl]

28. i would like to see what goes on tomorrow. anyone know how? eom

[Roland99]

30. See here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=154x498

[napi21]

33. I won't watch. I'll accept the assesment of those on DU to tell me

what happened, and what information, if any, is dpewed tomorrow!

I'm not a baptist, but a ROmanCatholic, and I do't want to put donw any peoploe of other faiths, but I really want this stuff out of our politics!

[autorank]

36. It's starting...I like it!

[Roland99]

37. Proof Ezell is one of the biggest freakin' hypocrites of all-time

"I don't know Joe Phelps," Ezell said in a telephone interview. "He's never called me. The biggest story here is that he wants to be on TV, he wants to be in the paper. He needs to spend more time reaching people than criticizing other churches."



Uhhhh...

[Zenlitened]

38. Hats off to these ministers.

Staying silent is not an option.

[Daphne08]

41. Aw, let them go right ahead and 'show out'

This will eventually divide their party.

I grew up in the Bible Belt and some of the scariest people I've ever met were Evangelical Ministers.

Ever read Jonathan Edwards' "Sinners In The Hands of an Angry God" sermon? I believe they'd like to take us back to those good ole days.

These people have absolutely NO tolerance for anyone who thinks differently than they do.

[all.of.me]

44. if this country was founded on separation of church and state,

what went wrong?! and when? and how?

[Pachamama]

49. Good question...I've been wondering the same thing...I think the answer is

that the same "Puritanical" people that burned witches at the stake and did much wrong to those that didn't see their way have never really gone away...they just went underground. And meanwhile, while our country grew and prospered, we all got fat and lazy and forgot about the principles of this country or just took our "freedom" for granted. Meanwhile these nutjobs have been plotting and planning and praying how they were going to "take back America"....

[bvar22]

50. Saw a pic of a great protest sign.

I may print out a few dozen and leave them on Supermatket and Coffee Shop Bulletin Boards this afternoon.

Justice?
or
JUST US!!!

[RetroLounge]

52. She needs to be fired.

RL