Swiss look back on a tarnished wartime record

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=107&sid=5758051&cKey=1115539407000

On the 60th anniversary of armistice day, swissinfo asks historian Jean-François Bergier if Switzerland has come to terms with its wartime past.

The surrender of Nazi Germany ended six years of horror for Europe, and was a huge relief for neutral Switzerland. The country had spent the war trying to avoid antagonising the Nazis, and had lived in constant fear of invasion.

As peace returned to Europe, the Swiss could feel good about neutrality, which had saved the country from destruction, and proud of their army, whose formidable defences had deterred the Nazis from invading. snip

The final report, published in 2002, shattered many myths about the country’s wartime history. Bergier’s commission found that government and industry had cooperated with the Nazis, and that Switzerland had turned away thousands of Jewish refugees at its borders.

The report also destroyed the idea that Switzerland’s defences had saved it from Nazi invasion, and highlighted the uneasy relationship the Swiss had had with Germany.

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[Kagemusha]

1. I don't know what the Swiss told themselves but..

*I* heard that the reason Hitler didn't invade was that if the Swiss blew up their mountain tunnels then the country wouldn't have been worth holding or conquering. So he didn't bother. Certainly he applied pressure to get as much of what he wanted as he could, and certainly the Swiss apparently played along quite a bit...

But no way in hell did the army scare the Nazis away simply by existing.

[lenidog]

4. The army didn't scare them away but allied with the fortifications

that were placed at all strategic places and entrances into the country it would have bought them time enough to blow up everything of value in the country. All the bridges, tunnels, mines, dams, etc were wired for demolition. By the time the Wermacht had gotten through there would have been nothing of value to take over. Intrestingly enough of all the fortifications made before WWII and during the Swiss ones are the least known for the simple fact that many are still in use.

[NNN0LHI]

16. So the Hitler would have been denied the fun of destroying the country?

And you are suggesting that is what saved them? That is the craziest shit I have ever heard of.

Don

[Massacure]

18. Yes. The Swiss would have done a "Scored Earth" defense.

It would have been a waste of Hitler's time. Especially with the fact that every male age 18-45 is issued weapons. God knows what would have happened had Hitler tried an invasion.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Sounds more like a "stupid earth" defense to me

Reminds me of the scene in Blazing Saddles where the black sheriff holds a gun to his head and tells the racist cowboys to back off or he will blow his own brains out.

Don

[KDLarsen]

23. It was used extensively on the Eastern Front..

.. first by the Russians & then by the Germans.

At least the commander of Paris had the balls to disobey Hitlers order to blow up the entire city.

[Massacure]

24. Scored earth is a huge gamble.

The Russians saved themselves with scored earth. But when the tides turned, Germany tried it and got screwed over.

[Demeter]

2. Worse Yet, Swiss Reputation As A Reputable Banker Is Destroyed

by the revelations of the knuckling under to Nazi demands for turning over Jewish money, companies, life insurance policies, etc. There are many ways to collaborate, to betray the trust others put in you, the trust that you used to market your services, and the Swiss invented lots of new methods of betrayal.

[NNN0LHI]

3. Swiss mercenaries guard the Vatican and pope too. What a coincidence n/t

[lenidog]

5. A coincidence that is several hundred years old

the Swiss guard ceremonial uniforms were designed by Leonardo Da Vincci. That gives you and idea of the age of the Swiss Guard.

[NNN0LHI]

6. I never suggested that the Swiss mercenaries there were something new

So what is your point? Are you just trying to make a historical statement?

Don

[lenidog]

7. What is your point?

You seem to be linking the Swiss Guards with the Swiss behavior during WWII. Even though the two events are several hundred years apart. The Swiss Guard was hired by the Pope during a time when the Swiss were more or less the mercenary suppliers of Europe. They had a reputation for being excellent fighters, well disciplined, loyal and better yet they didn't go running around their employers country like a plague of locusts like the other mercenary bands of the time.

[atreides1]

14. Michaelangelo was credited with designing the uniform

But there is little evidence to support this. The official dress uniform dates to 1914, and the working uniform consists of blue coveralls and a black beret.

[bennywhale]

8. No-one knows fuck all

about the Swiss army or its defences. Its alledged to have hundreds and hundres of miles of tunnels and army instillations throughout the alps to protect from invasion.

It also would be one of the most inhospitable fighting conditions for an invading army. The Alps are pretty high and pretty severe mountains.

Today its still compulsory for all Swiss to keep their assault rifle in the house they have during national service. You can be punished for not maintaining it.

One of the most isolated countries in the world in terms of intergovernmental contacts, and very paranoid.

(its funny with all these guns they don't go around shooting eachother with them.)

[strizi64]

9. Ups....

One of the most isolated countries in the world in terms of intergovernmental contacts, and very paranoid.

Paranoid? But not with 20% foreigners living here.... It's more a generation problem and a problem of old-style politics. A real and direct democracy but all is moving very, very slow. And things will change as time goes by. If only the younger could vote, we would have been in the EU before many of the new countrys in the east and in the UN back in the 70's. But only youth and left doesn't make a majority And many older still have this old thinking, everything from outside is bad and so on... These are the same people who will never admit that there were some real disgusting events during WWII, especially if it comes to Jews and the border. But the youth doesn't have these way of thinking, they have classmates from all over the world and see on a daily base that it works. And that has changed many things over the past 10 years and will do so in the future. I'm pretty sure that some old "pictures" from Switzerland dont match anymore... Your right if you already thought that I'm Swiss. I am. But my family isn't Swiss at all, my grandfather was Dutch and had to flee during WWII. He went to Switzerland, his brother first to Italy and then Chicago. Long time ago....

on edit: most of the tunnels and forts in the Alps are obsolete today and declassified. So, if one find this interesting, most are open to tourists. Or even for sale (not to tourists ;))...

striz

[RedstDem]

10. Stuck Between Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy & France On Bended Knee

& Occupied Austria To Boot, What Would Anyone Expect A Country About The Size Of Vermont To Do? Team Up With Liechtenstein And Take Em All On.

I Think The Swiss Did What Had To Be Done To Survive & I Know It Was Not The Least Bit Enjoyable For Any Of Them To Do.

[MrPrax]

15. Good Point...

Might not be the most noble thing to protect one's self in a war, but it is common--very common.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking on WW2 is always fashionable...

[byronius]

11. I read a history that said a large percentage of Swiss citizenry

were Nazi sympathizers only so far as they were Anti-Semitic, but I've also read that most of Europe held Anti-Semitic beliefs at that time. Part of me just wants to love the Swiss for being so universally nerd-like.

I myself was Anti-Semitic (thanks, Dad) until the age of ten, when pops made the mistake of taking me to Dachau. I stuck my head inside an oven, sat on a bunk, and have forever since bitterly hated Anti-Semites.

[James T. Kirk]

12. In the battle between good and evil, they were...neutral.

I guess neutrality was good for self-preservation, but there was nothing altruistic about it.

[Desperadoe]

13. Neutral?

There's nothing neutral about being the Nazi's Bank. They are just as much to blame for the suffering of refugees and wartime crimes as their Nazi benefactors and their rich, right-wing American Nazi industrialists that made money off of people's blood.

Neutral, my ass.

[James T. Kirk]

17. You're right. They have a lot to answer for.

[RedstDem]

22. Unless You're British, French, Polish Or Chinese

I Don't Think Anyone Can Be Proud Of What Their Countries Did Back Then.
Just A Bunch Pots Calling Kettles Black IMO

[James T. Kirk]

25. I'm American and proud!

I'm proud of my nation's role in World War II. I wish we could have gotten into it sooner, though and fought it more effectively. We owe a great debt to the Americans of that difficult era.

France? Hmm. Their history is mixed. There were many good Frenchmen who fought then, but they lost due to poor leadership. Also, many of the French collaborated and fought on the wrong side.

I think the Russians can also be proud of what they did to defeat the Nazis, despite the terrible actions of Stalin and his goons.

[Massacure]

19. If they denied to bank the Nazi's money, they wouldn't be nuetral.

They would be taking sides.

[Historic NY]

21. Operation Tannenbaum

Switzerland had always taken a stance of "armed neutrality", but Nazi Germany were not amused by this: Hitler called the Swiss "the most despicable and wretched people, mortal enemies of the new Germany", and boasted that he would liquidate "the rubbish of small nations" and would be "the Butcher of the Swiss". In retaliation for an incident in which 11 Luftwaffe planes were shot down by the Swiss using fighters bought from Germany, Hitler unsuccessfully sent saboteurs to destroy airfields. The Swiss had also given refuge to almost 1700 American pilots after their planes were damaged while bombing Germany.

http://www.answers.com/topic/operation-tannenbaum?hl=henri&hl=guisan


They did however lie in bed with Nazi Germany when it came to matters of finance. The Swiss vaults were loaded with Nazi gold, most of which was extracted from victims of the Holocaust. It was proved w/o any shadow of doubt when the gold was assayed and the mercury & silver contents were extremely high. former Sen. Pothole D'Amato of N.Y. was a sponsor of Swiss reparations to survivors.