Changed attitudes may rescue Davis

[jamesinca]

Changed attitudes may rescue Davis
But some voters just see dirty politics all around

Mark Martin, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau Monday, October 6, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Teresa Espana never supported Gray Davis, signed a petition for the governor's recall and until recently was dead-set on voting to kick him out of office. Now, she may be Davis' only hope.

Espana, a 42-year-old Green Party member from Fresno, has changed her mind. On Tuesday she will vote against the recall and for Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante.

"There's just too much at stake, and I'm pretty concerned that (Republican Arnold) Schwarzenegger is going to win," Espana said.

With a day to go before California's unprecedented recall election, Democrats are hoping that there are more Teresa Espanas across the state that could turn the tide. Those hopes have been boosted by more negative coverage of Schwarzenegger's past with women and a weekend poll that suggested a slowing of the momentum toward ending Davis' tenure.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/10/06/MN302763.DTL

[Gman]

1. How about that? A Green that gets it.

I'm sure there's more. But the Greens that don't get it are the dangerous ones.

[Flubadubya]

29. That's great now, but...

it's too bad they didn't "get it" when they signed that damned petition to recall Davis in the first place. Look what a sorry state of affairs California is in now.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. To be fair, a lot of them voted for Gore when they saw the warning lights

unortunately, there were still enough "dangerous ones" in Florida to throw it to Bush.

[Selwynn]

35. I agree with green platform, voted for Gore

We're not all idiots... :D

[KharmaTrain]

2. Are There Vegas Betting Lines On This?

This campaign has gotten so sublime over the past 72 hours, how can any poll be accurate?

Schneider on CNN noted on Friday that he was sensing some kind of shift (he hinted women) after the sexual abuse stories began to surface and then seemed to back off on Saturday. Another poll showed a sharp increase in the undecideds. What it tells me is nobody really has a handle here.

I've been sensing for the past couple weeks that Davis will prevail and I'm sticking will that call...based on that there are going to be a lot of people who will really give things a once over inside that voting booth.

Just watch...the MOE on both the Davis Recall and Gropinator/Bustamante by the time the count begins on Tuesday...and the cash registers at CNN, MSGOP and Faux go ca-ching...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Vegas Odds:

http://www.americasline.com/

Will Governor Davis be recalled? Odds
Yes -250
No +200



Candidate Party/Profession Odds
Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) Actor 3/5
Cruz Bustamante (D) Lt. Governor 7/5
Tom McClintock (R) State Senator 15/1
Peter Camelo (G) Investment Counselor 100/1
Mary Carey (I) Adult video performer 500/1
Larry Flynt (D) Publisher 500/1
Gary Coleman (I) Actor 500/1
FIELD (all others) 1000/1

[jfxgillis]

3. My dream of a perfect ending....

The Recall of Davis ends up winning and Arnold gets the most replacement votes by far, BUT the Yes/No vote spread is less than 40,000.

The ACLU goes back to the Ninth Circuit, "We TOLD you so."

The Ninth Circuit has bascically if only allusively ALREADY promised to throw out the vote if the outcome falls within the ACLU's earlier parameters. I think even that righy-libertarian Kosinski guy on panel more-or-less conceded the point. They'd HAVE to throw out the Yes/No and start all over.

[jamesinca]

5. My dream ending is this

Arnold loses! The courts decide against Enron and the federal government has to bail them out of the $9 billion they stole from CA. Howard Dean keeps up the message that Ken Lay and George Bush are best friends. The cost of electricity goes down, which it is going to do in '07 at the latest. This will help lure business back to CA and help the economy here. With the law signed yesterday that requires health coverage for all workers, it will have some of the strongest social programs in the nation and be one of the most progressive states around. With the changes to workmand comp, it will be more business friendly with out the cost or the loss of programs. If these people quite trying to ruin CA it will be a great place to be.

[Capn Sunshine]

16. A quick word about businesses

It may surprise you to learn this, as the echo from the right wing has been strong, but more new businesses have been licensed in California last year than any time in the past 10 years, including during the dot com boom.

The only business leaving seems to be those looking for shelter against shareholder lawsuits. Note they seem to move to Fla. and other states where your personal residence is sheltered.

[nini]

21. what's the 40,000 vote thing?

I must have been in a coma?

[Padraig18]

4. A Midwestern 'take'

I live in a HIGHLY Repuke area in the 'buckle on the Bible Belt', and I know TONS of RW fundy Christian types who have become thoroughly disgusted with AS in the last few days following the recent spate of sleazy revelations about his conduct toward women. I suspect that the case may not be terribly different in CA, and THESE folks may, in fact, be the ones who wind up saving Gray Davis' ass.

Or I could be all wet, too! :P

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. You betcha

These people will most likely wote No + McClintock.

How many Republicans regard Ahnuld as an infection sent by Hollywood liberals to undermine the GOP Morality? This is fun.

[David__77]

25. The fundies would be right.

Arnie is a "liberal Republican." An evil one, controlled by malevolent bankers, but a "liberal" one nonetheless. If he is elected, he will certainly undermine the influence of the "social conservatives" within the state GOP. The GOP establishment is sold out to him 100%, and will leave others in the dust.

[barbaraann]

30. I don't think he's liberal, just degenerate.

Being liberal means being tolerant of a wide spectrum of DECENT behavior.

[Guaranteed]

42. LOL just because he's degenerate...

...it doesn't mean that he has to be a liberal! ;) Thanks for the laugh....

[rocktivity]

44. This is Arnie's platform

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=284&row=0
http://newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2003-08-28/essay.asp


rocknation

[underpants]

6. TODAY they need to release info on Arnold's campaign donations

I'll see if I can find an article but NPR last week reported that not only has Arnold received $7.5 Million ($17M total)from Real estate developers and those "interested" in the decisions of the California Coastal Commission ;) but he "loaned" his campaign $4.5 Million of his own money. It's all legal but that loan can be repaid to him by anyone (read:special interests) and he doesn't have to tell who repaid him or is going to repay him until after the election.

This could blow the lid off of his "I will not be influenced by special interests" malarky.

[jamesinca]

7. Don't forget his desire to tax the Indian gaming out here

He is hell bent on taxing the reservation casinos here in CA. Oddly enough, people in his campaign, his handlers are big recipients of NV casino money. Let me see, competeing business just across the state line: Nothing to see here move on. No influence by special interest at all.

[JNelson6563]

9. Tax the injuns, spare the whites

Typical reich-wing strategy. Team Bush must be delighted.

I am just reeling from the hypocrisy. They see no reason for special councel on the WH leaks re: Wilson/Plume but they couldn't get enough of the stuff when they were certain Clinton was gettin' some. Clinton's blow-job put this nation in peril according to their twisted logic and, oddly, they are able to twist their minds to the point where a sexual predator is their choice for Gov of Cali.

Hoo-boy.

Julie

[rogerashton]

11. They are not special interests.

They are Powerful Interests who Control Things, in Arnold's phrase.

Run like hell -- the PICTs are coming!

[underpants]

13. I also just love the "Why are they coming out now?" line

Well why do you think? Are they getting more coverage than if the story had broke last month?

Poor wittle Ahnold the big bad women are coming after him.

[0007]

19. The cows are creating a stampede

The sudden frenzied rush of panic-stricken animals may save Davis's bacon.

[dfong63]

33. the loan is of questionable legality

... Arnie's taking out a loan for the campaign would only be legal if he got the loan from a commercial bank on the same terms available to other people. the terms Arnie got were 4% interest and no collateral. can you and i get a million-dollar loan on those terms? of course not. this "loan" is in reality, a kind of sneaky campaign donation, and is being challenged in court.

[underpants]

36. It sounds like Arnold is going to have to spend a lot of time and $

on lawyers. I sure hope it doesn't impede him from governing and I certainly hope it doesn't sap away his money. Of course what I hope most is that the recall fails and Arnie's life has been exposed.

[rocktivity]

8. This could be the nail in Arnold's coffin

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=284&row=0
Arnold Unplugged - It's Hasta la Vista to $9 Billion if the Governator is Selected


rocknation

[dutchdemocrat]

10. This one is quite good as well... Great background

Total amnesia
Arnold can’t seem to recall anything about his secret meeting with Enron’s Ken Lay. Perhaps this will refresh his memory.

By Jason Leopold

http://newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2003-08-28/essay.asp

Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ken Lay leave Gray Davis and California ratepayers in the dark.

Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't talking. The Hollywood action-film star and GOP gubernatorial candidate in the state’s recall election has been unusually silent about his plans for running the Golden State. He hasn’t yet offered a solution for the state’s budget deficit, an issue that largely got more than 1 million people to sign a petition to recall Governor Gray Davis.

More importantly, however, Schwarzenegger still won’t respond to questions about why he was at the Peninsula Hotel in Beverly Hills two years ago where he, former Los Angeles Mayor Richard Riordan and junk-bond king Michael Milken met secretly with former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay, who was touting a plan for solving the state’s energy crisis. Other luminaries who were invited but didn’t attend the May 24, 2001, meeting included former Los Angeles Laker Earvin “Magic” Johnson and supermarket magnate Ron Burkle.

While Schwarzenegger, Riordan and Milken listened to Lay’s pitch, Davis pleaded with President George W. Bush to enact much-needed price controls on electricity sold in the state, which skyrocketed to more than $200 per megawatt-hour (four to five times the price it was a year earlier). Davis said that Texas-based energy companies were manipulating California’s power market, charging obscene prices for power and holding consumers hostage. Bush agreed to meet with Davis at the Century Plaza Hotel in West Los Angeles on May 29 of that year--five days after Lay met with Schwarzenegger--to discuss the California power crisis.

[SayitAintSo]

40. I Agree !! but it isn't hitting mainstream news sources

WTF ?

[lebkuchen]

15. I don't understand why fundamentalists think this is "dirty" politics

Arnold refused to debate. How are people supposed to find out anything about him? Watch his movies?

I don't understand why fundamentalists are so upset with the LA Times for investigating Arnold. The fundamentalists weren't upset when Clinton was investigated for ten years, and after all was said and done, he hadn't committed any crimes, and they still hate him.

One newspaper investigates Arnold, and the fundies start screaming bloody horror. They are very stupid people, as hypocritical as they come. And these are supposed to be the "Christian loving" folks. The fundies hate with a frigging vengence.

I have fundies in my extended family and friendship circles and have had to cut off communications from them for my own peace of mind. I have nothing to say to these people anymore, unless it's something about the weather, and I have better things to do with my time than discuss the weather.

[underpants]

17. It's only "dirty" if directed towards their candidates

Typical bully mentality, take the fight to them and the run and cry.

[jiacinto]

18. Yep A Green Who Gets it

But she signed the petition, though. On some level it might be too little too late.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jamesinca]

22. Davis has always run his campaign like this

He did it for two terms and it worked, he has always run this way. He took a page right out of the GOP play book. They don't like it, because he plays like them. On the other hand he is in the middle of a court battle to get Enron over turned and save the state $9 billion dollars. He also signed yesterday a law that requires business to provide healthcare insurance to it's employees. Small business is exempt. Big business is pissed. You know the ones like Wal-Mart that provide nothing for their employees. Sure they cover it if you need an organ transplant, but how often does that happen? So in reality they do nothing for their employees. These stories have been on the pages of the newspapers and at the lead of the TV news.

[David__77]

26. Media won't carry that message.

They won't convey that message. Schwarzenegger's the one who got personal first. Further, it wasn't the anti-recall campaign that got this ball rolling. It is also relevant if the actor engaged in non-consensual groping, which is sexual harassment. You or I would be fired for doing that at work, while he excuses it as somehow the result of being on "rowdy movie sets." I don't think this is a cynical campaign move. Davis has stood for women's rights for decades.

[realFedUp]

23. Gray and Sharon had good interview on Larry King

last night.
Too bad a lot of CA voters just don't
care about the facts.

[ignatius]

24. A vote for the recall is a vote for the

gangbanger,groper,Nazi wannabee, HUMMER driver.

How in good faith, could any environmentalist vote for the recall?

[henslee]

27. If Latinos (Mexicans mostly ) get the vote out.... Arnie will lose.

Catholics are disturbed by his antics. But how do you get them to vote?...We're talking about a demographic traditionally disillusioned by politics in general. I think McClintock's #'s will be stronger than most people imagined.

Call me an optimist butI am convinced those yahoos showing up at Arnie rallies in Fresno and SD are to a degree, no-shows at the poll.

[donotpassgo]

28. Absolutely...The Rethugs will be bitching,though that illegals were voting

if Arnie loses. Apparently, to the GOP, you can't be a hispanic in California without having crossed the border.

[BenFranklinUSA]

31. Maybe, but...

...I am concerned about Latino turnout.
I have not seen much published about any "eagerness" to get to the polls and have a say, and you'd think you would.

What's the LasVegas line on this? ;)

[Piperay]

34. It's to bad the vote isn't

another week or so off, I think it is to late now unless large amounts of people come to their senses really really fast. :-(

[Jinx]

37. Davis

I wouldn't doubt that a lot of voters are so frustrated with the campaign at this point that they vote just to keep Davis in office.

Liberals and conservatives both seem to agree that Arnold is bad news, moderates think McClintock is an egomaniacal vote-splitting nut, and Republicans have been fighting hard to label Bustamente as some sort of racist seperatist.

My hope is that people look at all of this, and the Taco Bell voting headquarters nonsence, and see it all as the absolute farce it is. If the Recall fails all will be well - and the feuding moderates and conservatives on Freerepublic will rip each other into bloody shreds trying to apportion blame.

In other words, good fun.

[symbolman]

38. Pass this around please

My Free graphic at Take Back the Media, a picture tells a thousand words --

[goforit]

39. LOL!!!!.....Outstanding picture!!!!

Go Davis!!1

Be alert California........it matters!!!

[UTUSN]

41. Zeus Bless Dems/DAVIS n/t

[Norton]

43. As a Texan living in Texas..

I'm just glad California AND Florida look more ridiculous than us. At least we have renegade House members not to mention our fine little Dixie Chicks! Nice going California, you'll have yourselves to blame.

[Piperay]

45. and it is all thanks to the repukes...

they seem to be the ones that make any state they can get a hold on look ridiculous. :argh: The repukes are turning my beautiful state of California into nothing but a laughing stock and the butt of everyone's jokes. :cry: :mad:

[CreekDog]

46. The Recall Isn't A "Bay Area" Thing

The recall's been behind (as much as 20-30 points) in polls of the Bay Area. Seems like our counties vote the right way and heavily-so in most elections, only to be diluted by the massive numbers down south.

Sometimes I wish we were our own small-to-midsize progressive state where the Greens can come in second on a good day.

Nader got more votes in SF than Bush in 2000.

Don't blame us for the circus, we never went into the tent!