Pentagon Confirms Quran Incident at Gitmo

[Kadie]

Pentagon Confirms Quran Incident at Gitmo
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

Friday, June 3, 2005



(06-03) 16:25 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --


The Pentagon on Friday confirmed for the first time that a U.S. soldier deliberately kicked a Guantanamo Bay prisoner's Muslim holy book in violation of the military's rules for handling the Quran.


In other confirmed incidents, prison guards threw water balloons in a cell block, causing an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; a guard's urine splashed on a detainee and his Quran; an interrogator stepped on a Quran during an interrogation; and a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran.


The findings are among the results of an investigation last month by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, the commander of the detention center in Cuba, that was triggered by a Newsweek magazine report — later retracted — that a U.S. soldier had flushed one Guantanamo Bay detainee's Quran down a toilet.


The story stirred worldwide controversy and the Bush administration blamed it for deadly demonstrations in Afghanistan.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/06/03/national/w162121D62.DTL

[LiberalVoice]

1. "a guard's urine splashed on a detainee and his Quran"

Why the fuck dont they just say that he pissed on the detainee and his Quran?!?!?

Edit: It makes me sick when they word things to tone down the actual event. Jesus Christ it pisses me off.

[RamboLiberal]

4. And note it's on the usual Friday night news dump

hoping no one will pay attention over the weekend.

[DELUSIONAL]

22. My thoughts exactly

[MaineDem]

26. First thing I thought of, too

I would have expected it before the holiday weekend though. They're a week late.

[angka]

43. yup

audacious shit, isn't it?

[Theduckno2]

91. Just like this Administration to wait until after dark to walk their dog

IN YOUR YARD!!! This is a smelly, disgusting mess too!

[soundhead]

93. The opposite is true

I think it's the opposite (the reason for releasing the story today). The BFEE/Neocons don't care about people finding out about some soldier kicking a book in whatever the hell prison he kicked it. On the other hand, they might care about about too many Americans finding out about the Downing Street memo.

What they need is to distract, to keep throwing up something ostensibly egregious, but that in the end they know will blow over with no harm to themselves. As such, the disgusting American media will pick this up and give it a "breaking news" feel, which will absorb the attentions of those watching, but ultimately the great unwashed don't care about the "terrorists" in Guantanamo.

So they released this news when they did so that the weekend news shows will focus on this, and all the while the Downing Street memo drifts into history.

[Theduckno2]

94. A conjuror's misdirection? Could be.

It may have been done to diffuse some of Amnesty International's stinging "Gulag" reference, at least for the party faithful. Water balloons sure give the matter a prankish quality. I still think that they wanted a short stay in the news cycle, hence the Friday dump.

[wtmusic]

5. That is pretty pathetic

I'd even accept "urinate". :eyes:

[DesEtoiles]

9. perhaps the guard has a very, very serious urinary problem. very serious.

[MisterP]

12. uromycetisis kick

[wtmusic]

13. He was pissing on his head, and the urine splashed on the Koran n/t

[Hissyspit]

50. They're pissing on our legs and calling it rain.

[July]

44. Noticed that.

You know how that happens. It happens all the time, doesn't it? Somebody's urine just happens to splash on another person and his prized belongings? Sure, it's common, right?

They are shameless.

[Supersedeas]

137. the Corporate Media is drinking up the Splashing Urine Theory

[Seabiscuit]

47. That phrase jumped out at me too. Why not just say he pissed on...

or at least "urinated on"...

Military euphemisms make me ill. But this one reminds me of the "splash guards" Larry David wanted in the mens room in his restaurant episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" so I just had to laugh.

Why "splash guards"??? Why not "errant piss guards" or "wandering weenie guards" or "peripatetic pee pee guards"???

[Gormy Cuss]

53. Passive voice obscured responsibility

Urine was splashed. See, no one need be held responsible. Of course the guard peed on him and the Quran. The least suspicious interpretation I can make of it is that the government is preparing a court case against the guard and has to be careful about any public accusations.

No mention of whether those water balloons were lobbed at the prisoners with the suggestion that they were filled with something other than water. I wonder.

[Seabiscuit]

62. You got that right.

But what about that silly "splash guards" label? :)

[Hissyspit]

49. Newsweek! For all intents and purposes...

were right. And yet for DAYS, all we heard from MSM, how evil they were and how they retracted their story.

Flushed down a toilet. Pissed on. Is there that much difference?

[okieinpain]

60. actually to me being pissed on is worse then someone flushing

something down the toilet.

[Charles19]

87. I think it is worse (n/t)

[jayctravis]

56. Cause...see...he was trying to pee on the DETAINEE...

and not the Quran, which is what everyone is mad about. Certainly you don't think that they MEAN for urine to splash the Quran when they're interrogating suspects by peeing on them...of course they've gotten a lengthy memo to respect the holy book and treat it with the utmost courtesy when peeing on a detainee, and for goodness sakes, watch their aim.

[radfringe]

98. new excuse -- the wind did it

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N03291882.htm

In the incident involving urine, which took place this past March, Southern Command said a guard left his observation post, went outside and urinated near an air vent, and "the wind blew his urine through the vent" and into a cell block.

ummm...maybe the excuse would be more plausible if they just said a stray dog pissed in the air vent? ya think?

wait a minute....that will be the excuse for next week's spews dump

[wtmusic]

2. I can't believe AP would report this

Now *they're* going to have blood on their hands, too

[chelsea0011]

3. Friday=Slow news day...lost during weekend

[msanthrope]

6. Friday Night News Dump!!!!! n/t

[Career Prole]

7. What time is it? Ah yes...it's time for

The Friday News Dump!!

[July]

46. What about a Friday Media Blast right after the news dump? nt

[pinniped]

8. Are these wh pricks and little scotty going to apologize to Newsweek?

no

[Disturbed]

14. Hell no!

This is how the Fascists operate: They deny a story then a week or two later confirm other stories that are just as bad on a Fri. news dump. Most Rethugs are clever, viscious, hypocritical criminals.

[whatgives]

54. I doubt it. n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. "that was triggered by a Newsweek "

My guess is this is the report that Newsweek knew about and described
in their article, not a "new" report. I doubt that a Quran was ever "flushed down" a toilet, more likely it was dropped in a toilet.

A guard actually pissed on a detainee?

This report ought to start changing a few opinions about what we are doing over there.

Oh, and did rumsfeld and chimp deny all this publicly? - I can't remember who denied what anymore.

[RamboLiberal]

16. And you gotta remember the toilets in the cells are not what

we think of as toilets. I'm not sure of the exact plumbing or if it flushes but it is not a standing toilet, instead it is a hole in the floor of the cell.

Does anyone know how these toilets work at Gitmo?

And from reading "Inside the Wire" most of the MPs were in a perpetual state of being pissed off at the detainees and had been filled with the propaganda that they were all responsible for 9-11.

And some of the pissed off, bored detainees certainly weren't above throwing urine and feces back at the guards.

[kurtyboy]

84. Five gallon bucket, as I recollect.

I read somewhere (no link, sorry) that the cells have (or had) a plastic 5-gallon bucket in a corner. Into one of these, a Quran got dropped. The story could be perfectly true (I believe it) and the government would still deny the Newsweek charge, because you can't "flush down" anything from a five gallon bucket.

The same story said what you have repeated--that the detainees would use the contents of the buckets to act out against guards. I seem to recall that this led to an alternative to the plastic buckets--perhaps the hole in the floor you're thinking of.

[Igel]

34. It's a game of 'telephone'.

Even though the original sentence was written down and observable.

Urine splashed = urinated on Qur'an. But, no splashed must mean "urinated on detainee."

I expect by midnight it'll be that Rummy personally engaged in water sports with bin Laden during a cross-dressing festival in Crawford.

[Frederik]

97. Read it again

Splashed on a DETAINEE and his Quran.

It's pretty obvious what is meant by "splashed", and it isn't "accidentally splashed". Do you think detainees and their Qurans usually lie beside the toilets used by the guards while they take a leak? That would be the only conceivable explanation for the accidental splash, in which case I'm sure they would be careful to emphasize the accident.

Telephone my ass.

[Igel]

135. Read additional details elsewhere.

He peed. I know I very, very seldom miss, and still the toilet bowl rim gets dirty. There's splatter when a fluid stream hits a hard surface.

The detainee said that droplets sprayed him and the Qur'an. He was, so to speak, pissed; but imputing the intention to have the air currents waft small droplets of urine

I repeat my assertion that what people have made the text say isn't entailed by the text; it's at best allowed by the text. Eisegesis is a bad thing for any reality- or fact-based community.

In other news, the report also says that a detainee ripped pages out of his Qur'an, and another intentionally peed on it. Don't know why; maybe they were corrupted by being touched by the impure, maybe they wanted to frame some guard; maybe they didn't do it and a guard did, and the detainee decided not to lie about it (or there were witnesses).

The report may be wrong, but my suspicion that it's wrong doesn't entitle me to "correcting" it to say what I want it to say. My suspicion entitles me to doubt, not inventing facts.

Thanks, but I'm not *.

[DesEtoiles]

11. BTW, I'm not so sure this is going to go away by Monday

[Charles19]

88. It may go away in US MSM, but the Muslim media around the

world is going to light this one up.

Unfortunately I think the Pentagon is releasing this information because it helps them politically with their hate-mongering fascist base.

[tabasco]

15. But, but, but ...they didn't flush it down the toilet !!

Some of the unreleased pictures from Abu Ghraib show prisoners being pissed on too. This according to my German girlfriend who heard it on tv over there.

I hope the ACLU is successful in getting ALL the pictures of the "college pranks" released. Funny I don't remember getting pissed on in college.

Utterly fucking disgusting. Our tax dollars at work. This all is due to the evil command climate created by Bush and Rumsfeld.

We The People must hold these criminals accountable for disgracing our Nation!

[BattyDem]

32. No, they used it as a toilet!

:wtf:

Pissing on people? I don't even know what to say about that. Obviously, it's not as bad as raping and torturing them, but it's just so fucking degrading! :grr: What are we doing to those people?!? They're going to despise us for generations! We're never going to be able to "fix" this ... not in my lifetime anyway. They didn't do anything to us! We were supposed to be liberating them!!!! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[okieinpain]

61. the repug frats piss on pledges, hell they sleep with dead

bodies.

[SoCalDem]

17. Newsweek should DEMAND an apology.. actually SEVERAL

:)

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. What will they do for the guy who wrote the story whose career

they decided to terminate?

[Warren Stupidity]

33. i think isikoff is not terminated

From a googling it would appear that the freepers wish he were fired, or perhaps drawn and quartered, but for them no such luck. Not that I have any fondness for isikoff, he seems to be pretty much your standard MSM turd.

[LiberalVoice]

20. Why on earth would Newsweek do that?

They knew the story was true and had no evidence to suggest otherwise and yet they still pulled the plug and retracted it for no reason other then they wouldn't stand up to *. They let this admin blame them for riots that they had nothing to do with and they ate that shit like a five course meal. Fuck those spineless pricks.

[stickdog]

18. Friday news flush.

[kittenpants]

21. any guesses on the two-word obscenity?

all I can think of is m-f'er

[6000eliot]

23. And it comes out on a Friday

Quelle surprise!

[warrens]

24. There, you stupif lieberals

See, they just PISSED on the Q'ran, not flushed it down the toilet, you dimocraps. Who would complain about having their holy book pissed on?

Seriously, though, this may be the case Newsweek was actually referring to, but something was lost in translation. Wonder how Scotty is going to dance around THIS one.

[tavalon]

39. By ignoring it

as per usual. If questioned he'll say something like that is old news, no longer relevant.

[kurtyboy]

86. Mr. Boudelag, is that you?

N/T

[PSPS]

25. HEY! IT MUST BE FRIDAY!

Time for a news dump!

[goodboy]

27. 715pm on a friday night. They sure don't want this getting traction. (nt)

[bluestateguy]

28. V I N D I C A T I O N

Thank you.

[wookie294]

29. BLAME AMERICA FIRST

Our military and intelligence services have been conducting a war (covert and overt) with Muslims since Eisenhower overthrew the DEMOCRATIC government of Iran in 1954. We deserve any violent reaction that comes our way. I expect this profitable decades-old war for oil and Israel to continue while the American taxpaying sucker pays for it and receives no benefit from it.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

30. Interesting how the Pentagon finally "admitted" this the same week

Deep Throat revealed himself.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. so newsweek will be retracting the retraction, right? EOM

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. Ah maybe if we admit it on Friday no one will notice?

Not this time Chimpy

[Career Prole]

133. It *couldn't* have been the Friday News Dump! Why?

Because the Pentagon said so...and we all know they can be trusted! :rofl:

The military released the findings of the investigation about 7:15 p.m., Eastern time, well after the broadcasts of the network television evening news programs. A Pentagon spokesman, Bryan Whitman, denied that the military was trying to bury bad news late on a Friday night, a tactic often used by government agencies. "It was completed and we try not to hold these things after their reviews are completed," Mr. Whitman said in a telephone interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/politics/04koran.html?hp&ex=1117944000&en=057b526f6765bf41&ei=5094&partner=homepage


I'll tell ya, it's encouraging to see the reporter asked the question about the News Dump, at least.

[adigal]

36. How does a guard's urine splash on a

detainee and his Koran??? I just asked my husband what this meant, and he said that the soldier pissed on him. Is this against the Geneva Convention??? I think so, but am not a lawyer. Let's get a lawyer on this!!!

Jesus Christ, what have we done!!!

[Qanisqineq]

41. Against the Geneva Conventions? Oh yes

I couldn't imagine that it wouldn't be, but just asked my husband on IM. His answer:

Doesnt matter what rank the soldier was either, they should know. You get a Geneva conventions brief before and DURING deployment!

[adigal]

57. So, why isn't this dishonorable soldier being

prosecuted??? And why aren't the 95% of honorable soldiers screaming for the trial of this dirt bag soldier??? What is stopping them??

[Protagoras]

82. as soon as I heard the word SPLASHED

I started thinking of some panicky kid trying to spin an absurd lie....

"See I was sorta looking out the window and then this water I drank earlier cuz I was real thirsty made me have to go real bad but I forgot where the bathroom was and my zipper was stuck so I tried to be real careful to piss in a can but when I was trying this bird fly into my face and I was like OUCH OUCH and my hand slipped and that made some of my urine hit the wall and this guy had left his Quoran there even though I told him not to and so its almost like it was his fault that even though I didn't mean it and the bird was in my face and I only hit the wall well there was a little bit only like a couple drops and it might have gotten on it but you can understand how that could happen right?"

Amazingly...our pentagon appears to be no more prepared to produce a coherent statement than that....stunning.

[Olney Blue]

37. This story was on Countdown tonight.

It ain't going away.

The MSM likes covering itself, and the news will be how Newsweek responds to the self-righteous reprimand it got from the WH.

[Brian Hopkins]

38. Video

We have posted the Countdown video. Here is the link:

http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/6/3/174212/8903

[havocmom]

45. Thanks and Welcome to DU, Brian Hopkins.

:hi: Looking forward to reading more from you.

[teryang]

40. Defiling icons is a well known manipulation technique

...studied in arcane military circles. It is part of a larger bag of tricks used to break down prisoners. It is an element of so called called low impact torture and interrogation techniques. This report is an attempt to isolate and trivialize the technique which is used systematically.

Note that splashing urine is an obvious attempt to avoid the very intentional nature of the technique.

[angka]

42. it's called "moral bankruptcy"

this is really sad if you think about it.

our goddamn country.

[Seabiscuit]

48. a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran

quote, unquote.

What two words?

"Fuck you"?

"Fuck Allah"?

"Allah sucks"?

"Up yours"?

"Eat shit"?

We really have some wonderful people in uniform these days.

[Barkley]

102. But ... but... Bush says America respects Islam ...

[llmart]

51. This is almost the final straw for me......

I am so ashamed of this country under this regime. I wish I could personally tell people in other countries that I have not and never did and never will support people like this. I don't care if you're military or my grandmother. There are just some things you don't do to other human beings. I am sickened over and over again by what this country has turned into. Can us rational people please do more to take back our once great nation?

[Barkley]

104. Don't be ashamed of the US; its only a few "bad apples" from Appalachia

I'm sure that's the lie that will come out.

And then they'll say 'it was only one shift at Gitmo that desecrated teh Quran'.

Next, they'll say that 'these detainees were involved in carrying out 9-11.'

In the mean time, outrage against America will expand exponentially; Al Queda could hardly hope for better recruiting material.

[llmart]

136. Yeah, and the blowback will be something else......

unfortunately it'll hurt some of us who don't support this regime. If only we could pile the Bush supporters in one place and let them be the target of any blowback alone. They deserve it for being so damned stupid to vote for him.

[democrank]

52. Tell me...

How the hell much more of this are we supposed to take?

[Rose Siding]

55. LAME AP headline: "U.S. Confirms Gitmo Soldier Kicked Quran"

As though kicking is more key to the story than peeing on it (*second* paragraph) What a MESS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/03/AR2005060301417.html

[wookie294]

58. It's so obvious the media is in Bush's pocket

Big Media thinks it would be "irresponsible" to inflame Arab anger by reporting the TRUTH.

[jayfish]

59. "They Hate Us For Our Freedom"...

to piss on their holy book. This is a dark day for America and the gravity of what has been admitted to cannot be understated. We have just consigned ourselves to the threat of revenge attacks over this shit for generations to come. America had a chance to avert this disaster last year and chose not to do so. Today America needs to wake up to the fact that we are headed for dark days. In one fell swoop this government has totally disgraced itself in the eyes of it's people and poured gasoline on the fiery anger of a billion Muslims. And ya know what? We are almost alone now. Our friends tire of wiping the spit from their eyes. I have read our brothers and sisters responses to this over in Der Freeperlund and all I have to say is way to fucking go! My kids and their kids and their kids are going to have to put up with this shit forever. You should be fucking ashamed of yourselves. This is why people blow themselves up and take scores of innocents with them. Are you thinking of the innocents or could you care less as long as your political dogma is maintained.
Ya know I'm not a religious person and I could give a tinkers damn for the Koran or the Bible or or the Torah or any holy text you can throw down on the table in front of me. But have some fucking respect for a BILLION people. It could have gone a long way.

Oh and can we please impeach this administration and get some adults back in charge? We really need someone to help us prepare, here at home, for what's to come. The clowns in charge now could care less.



Jay


TYPO EDIT

[adigal]

63. FoxNews: Guard's urine splashed through air vent

"In other confirmed incidents, a guard's urine came through an air vent and splashed on a detainee and his Koran; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Korans to get wet; and in a confirmed but ambiguous case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Koran (search)."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158577,00.html

How does urine splash through an air vent?? I always piss into the air conditioner, don't you??

[kliljedahl]

64. No, off the back porch.

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[bahrbearian]

65. In the Summer I have to go out by the trees ,the back porch gets

a little ripe.

[kliljedahl]

68. I said off of it, not on it

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[bahrbearian]

80. That might explain all the flies.

[applegrove]

66. If the guards themselves had to use buckets too - that could explain

it. Apparently there are no toilets at Gitmo. Lots of air vents though. ?:hide:

[Der Blaue Engel]

67. Why do I have the feeling the water balloons weren't full of water?

Maybe one of them came through an air vent.

[Erika]

69. But Bush said Iraqi's were evil doers

so the military was just following his propaganda.

[Johnywolf]

70. Faux News!

LIARS!!!! Why are you guys using faux news links, lol! It is not a very reliable source of news!

[whatgives]

73. Amen n/t

[NYC Liberal]

71. In the old, sane America, this would be satire. n/t

[Gregorian]

72. Well that clears that up then. Party gone out of bounds.

More frat pranks, huh?
Kegger party. Pyramid. Leashes. Just a hell of a lot of fun. And as long as the lapdog media is playing dead, a party is was. So just go on as usual, and ignore those screams and yells you hear in the background. Just a big ole party goin' on. Bush style.

[whatgives]

75. Great photshop n/t

[Gregorian]

76. One can dream.

It needs a bit of touching up, but the message is clear.

By the way- WELCOME to the coolest place on earth. :)

[RobinA]

74. The Military

has this most puzzling preoccupation with bodily fluids and genitalia. It's like 4th grade all over again. Urine in air vents? Who DOES that?????

[saigon68]

77. They are War Criminals

[Erika]

79. Remember, Bush said they were evil doers

and hired contractors on how to humiliate and demoralize them. The contractors advised our military on the techniques. This is not the fault of the military. It is the fault of the Bush administration.

[Olney Blue]

101. My cat misses the litter box sometimes..... n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Ok, Ok I need to ask this

why does Fox News hate America? Or rather exactly how has the bush crime family Pissed OFF Roger Ailes?

[symbolman]

81. This is why we did our radio show last week and flushed a bible

Here's the thread I started in General Discussion:

Symbolman flushes Bible Down Toilet online as Protest against BushCo Abuse

In the interest of fairness to the muslim world and to defuse the situation we felt that it was only fair to Flush a Bible down the toilet..

Now they can call off the Jihad and no more people have to die (nor does Newsweak need any more White House phony heat) from riots, just from Bush's Major Profit War Machine..

It's The return of our Weekly Radio Show, created for Memorial Day and our first in a year - we have a lot of fun and don't take any prisoners, we're bareknuckled liberals - have a listen, we've got all the formats you need, even an RSS feed for you Pod folks out there (simply download to Pod and go rollerblading, mow the lawn, ignore pesky ambulances, it's a free country)

Here's the link:

http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/index.php

Please spread the word, Takebackthemedia.com is Flushing Bibles for YOUR Freedom of Speech (I know, when the ACLU defended the KKK who marched in Skokie, Ill, home of many jews who were internment victims I didn't understand it either - but the truth is, if THEY don't have freedom of speech, then neither do WE)

We also did this to inflame those right wing folks that are just calling it a Book when they flush the Koran.

While at the site enjoy our over 50 animations we've created to fight the Bush admin - we've put everything we have on the line to fight these bastards...

Enjoy!

[Mortos]

83. The official explanation of how urine came to be "splashed" on Koran

In the most recent confirmed case, Hood said a detainee complained on March 25, 2005, of urine splashing on him and his Quran. An unidentified guard admitted at the time that "he was at fault," the Hood report said, although it did not say whether the act was deliberate. The guard's supervisor reprimanded him and assigned him to gate guard duty, where he had no contact with detainees for the remainder of his assignment at Guantanamo Bay.

As described in the Hood report, the guard had left his observation post and went outside to urinate. He urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into the cell block. The incident was not further explained.

Uh...OK. I am sure it was completely innocent.

What the fuck do they have to do before someone in the media, or better yet the courts, hands them their asses. I am sick of this administration and it's abuses of our constitution, decency and reputation as a nation. I am sicker of the twisted fucks who defend every wrong committed by this administration under the banner of patriotism and religion.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

85. US Guantanamo guard kicked Koran (internal army investigation)

US guards at the Guantanamo Bay detention centre kicked, threw water and splashed urine on copies of Koran.

The Pentagon has released details of five incidents in which the Koran was mishandled by US personnel at the camp, some intentional and others accidental.

In another incident a two-word English obscenity was found written in a Koran.

The Pentagon carried out the investigation after Newsweek published, then retraced, a report that the Koran has been flushed down a toilet.

More at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4608949.stm

[Disturbed]

90. What is a war crime?

What is a war crime?
By Tarik Kafala
BBC News Online


Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including... willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, ...taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."


This, international lawyers say, is the basic definition of war crimes.

The statutes of The Hague tribunal say the court has the right to try suspects alleged to have violated the laws or customs of war in the former Yugoslavia since 1992. Examples of such violations are given in article 3:

* Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity
* Attack, or bombardment, by whatever means, of undefended towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings
* Seizure of, destruction or willful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, historic monuments and works of art and science
* Plunder of public or private property.

The tribunal defines crime against humanity as crimes committed in armed conflict but directed against a civilian population. Again a list of examples is given in article 5:

* Murder
* Extermination
* Enslavement
* Deportation
* Imprisonment
* Torture
* Rape
* Persecutions on political, racial and religious grounds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1420133.stm

[Jack_DeLeon]

89. OH NOESSS, OH The humanity....

how dare those soliders torture and abuse that poor book. :eyes:

[JawJaw]

92. Well, Somebody.....

...is taking the piss...

[Vinca]

95. This is like breaking the death of a loved one to the family.

First, he's come down with stomach cramps. Then he's admitted to the hospital for evaluation. Next he has surgery and isn't doing well. Finally, after a couple of days of BS, they tell you it's advanced colon cancer and time to shop for an urn. The military might not have said the Quran was flushed, but it's getting closer every day and is now circling the bowl.

[Frederik]

96. So...

A guard's urine "splashed" unto a copy of the holy book, but Newsweek are "irresponsible" for saying that it was flushed down the toilet. Newsweek clearly has blood on its hands for saying that the Koran was flushed, when the truth is that it was merely pissed upon!

If only the protestors in Afghanistan had known this, I'm sure they would have been more understanding.

[arwalden]

99. Was The Splashing-Urine Accidental?

[pinniped]

100. CBS mourning news @ 05:00am just reported it as their lead story.

Thought I even heard CBS mention that they did it on Friday because that's when all their embarrassing news is released. Friday news dump.

[chrisbur]

103. The RW is killing us (metaphorically so far)

The issues are re-framed to the detriment of the truth every time. Have you seen the ABC News headline? "US Confirms Gitmo Soldier Kicked Koran".

The average American thinks this is just more left wing histrionics. They don't care. The DOD say's "We supply them with a Koran." for Christ's sake.

In reality they are torturing the hell out of people. I'm curiously hesitant about saying this but... An acquaintance of a friend who just got back from guard duty at Gitmo said, and I'm paraphrasing here... If the American public knew what was going on there (Gitmo) they would freak out. This is a 21 year old house painter with no political tendencies or partisanship. Interestingly, the soldier/painters father who served in Vietnam and is in his 50's had a hard time believing his own son and wanted no part of the conversation.

911 worked wonders on the segment of the population that already hated/feared brown people.

[ruggerson]

NY Times: Military Details Koran Incidents at Base in Cuba

Late Friday night news. In the hopes it will be ignored.

So can we now expect a White House apology to Newsweek?


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/politics/04koran.html?hp&ex=1117944000&en=057b526f6765bf41&ei=5094&partner=homepage

<snip>

By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: June 4, 2005
WASHINGTON, June 3 - A military inquiry has found that guards or interrogators at the Guantánamo Bay detention center in Cuba kicked, stepped on and splashed urine on the Koran, in some cases intentionally but in others by accident, the Pentagon said on Friday.

The splashing of urine was among the cases described as inadvertent. It was said to have occurred when a guard urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into a detainee's cell. The detainee was given a fresh uniform and a new Koran, and the guard was reprimanded and assigned to guard duty that kept him from contact with detainees for the remainder of his time at Guantánamo, according to the military inquiry.

The investigation into allegations that the Koran had been mishandled also found that in one instance detainees' Korans were wet because guards on the night shift had thrown water balloons on the cellblock.

In another case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Koran, but investigators could not determine whether a guard or detainee had written it.

<snip>

[KaryninMiami]

105. I too have been pondering the Newsweek question --

Someone owes someone a big apology indeed. One has to wonder what they did to Newsweek or threatened them with to get them to retract a story that they and many Americans knew was true (and there was evidence of).

But then again, (as I posted earlier), just because they peed on the Koran, does not mean they flushed.

It's all just beyond disgusting and very, very disturbing. Where are Woodward and Bernstein when we need them?

[usregimechange]

106. How many detainees write in English?

[DeepModem Mom]

107. kick

[NVMojo]

108. US Military Provides Details of Koran Mishandling at Guantanamo

The U.S. military has provided details of five incidents in which it says soldiers or interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay detention center mishandled copies of the Koran, but the military says its investigation confirmed that no Koran was ever flushed in a toilet, as a now withdrawn magazine report claimed last month.

The U.S. Southern Command, which supervises the Guantanamo facility, said Friday that in specific incidents prisoners' Korans were kicked, stepped on, and drenched with water. In one incident, the report says a ventilation system carried a soldier's urine into a prisoner's cell, which got on the prisoner and his Koran. The report says that incident was accidental, but the soldier was removed from his post. It says the prisoner was given a new Koran and a new set of clothes.

more....

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-06-04-voa3.cfm

[Doctor_J]

109. So when can we expect a big public apology to Newsweak?

right after the next snow storm in Baghdad, I suppose

[jayfish]

110. Detainees, not soldiers, flushed Quran

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/03/guantanamo.quran/index.html

<SNIP>
CNN) -- A U.S. military investigation into the mishandling of the Muslim holy book at the Guantanamo Bay prison for suspected terrorists has determined that detainees -- not U.S. soldiers -- attempted to flush the Quran down the toilet there.
</SNIP>

<SNIP>
In one incident, on February 23, 2004, the report said a guard saw a "detainee place two Qurans in his toilet and state he no longer cared about the Quran or his religion.
</SNIP>

Good lord, is this what we have come to? Doesn't matter if it's true of not, no one in the ME is going to buy that one. They were better off just denying the whole thing.

Jay

ON EDIT: Nice job CNN. Not one question or curiosity? You serve your masters well.

[The_Casual_Observer]

111. place two Qurans in his toilet

And it's one - two - three what are fighting for?

They are trying to out do each other for best Quran defilement stories. The military can ALWAYS be counted on for the most juvenile adolescent tit-for-tat shit imaginable.

[BattyDem]

112. But ... MSNBC says Quran wasn't flushed, it was only "splashed with urine"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8090656

Somebody didn't get the "lie of the day" memo. :eyes:

[Locut0s]

113. My favourite parts are..

"a guard's urine "splashed" a detainee and his holy book after coming through an air vent"

"guards got in a water balloon fight that resulted in two detainees' Qurans getting wet."

After coming through an air vent? Got wet after a water balloon fight? WTF? Ok I'll allow for the fact that this 'could' be true but it sure sounds a whole sh!t more like a bully getting caught red handed giving a kid a wedgie then pointing to the victim and saying "he did it".

[melnjones]

117. dude, so

was he like peeing into an air vent? In what world is that normal? Insanity.

[Maple]

114. MUSLIM detainees

flushing a Koran???...oh c'mon!!!

Not in this, or any other, lifetime!

[alittlelark]

115. hurling as I post.....

:puke: :puke: :puke:


I am sooo gonna have another drink.

[Turn CO Blue]

116. Trust CNN...to title the story with the most

administration a$$-kissing title possible.

[Selteri]

118. This is a lot like the assisted living place my aunt is in.

She spent a week + (8 days total) in a urine soaked bandage and the assisted living facility had the guts to blame it on the 92 year old woman.

We're in the process of moving her out and considering out full spectrum of legal actions for OBVIOUS reasons.

Blame the victim! Blame the victim! YAYAYAYA!

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Department of Truth hard at work I see

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

120. yeah, and they also TORTURED THEMSELVES, and imprisoned themselves

and booked themselves round trip flights to other countries where they could be secretly tortured---

[pinniped]

121. So, why are the not being released since they no longer want to fight?

Whoever thought this shit up is an amateur comedian.

Whoever thinks up the al=Zarqawi shit is a comical madman.

[SoCalDem]

122. Sure... and the "parrot is just sleeping"

This whole detainee thing reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch..all that's missing is the military guy with the riding crop marching across the sketch and announcing that it's time for something completely different :eyes:

[aquart]

123. No one in the ME? I don't buy it.

And I'm a New York Jew.

[magellan]

124. OMG, I know it's wrong, but I am in fits of laughter reading this thread!!

A pox on whoever it was above that asked "Who the hell pees into an air vent?" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Okay, on the basis of this hooey, who can't wait to see what neo-nincompoopery BushCo come up with to explain their way out of the Downing Street memo? I'll pay real money to see whats-her-face Costello report it with a straight face.

Whadda buncha maroons....

[leftofcool]

125. Put down the crack pipe, General..............

we all know that no Muslim would EVER flush the Quran.

Left of Cool

[CJCRANE]

126. Isn't it kinda worrying

that they keep coming out with contradictory stories, does anyone actually know for sure what's going on there?

[Vitruvius]

127. Oh, they'll just torture some detainee into "admitting" he did it --

no problem.

[lynne]

128. I never bought the flushing story anyway -

- since I can't get my toilet to take 5 sheets of 2-ply without plugging up, I couldn't see how a Gitmo toilet was going to take an entire book.

If Gitmo has toilets that will handle a Quran, then I want to know the maker as I'm going to get myself one of those puppies.

[Puglover]

129. It would seem to me

that if anything would cause riots it would be a story by the US press saying that Muslim folks being detained by the US are flushing their holy book down the crapper and denouncing Allah.

[TomClash]

130. "detainees -- not U.S. soldiers -- attempted to flush the Quran"

Evenif true, yo uhav eto ask this question: was that before or after they were summarily tortured in violation of the Geneva Convention?

[Leafy Geneva]

131. Water Balloons !?!?!

What the f*** kind of operation are we running over there? How is it that these guards feel they can play "pranks" on the detainees? It is really ill relevant whether they contain water of something else.

What kind of prison is it where the guards play pranks on the prisoners?! But of course, the answer is obvious.

Bush to the Hague!

[mod mom]

132. *FEE is provoking an attack so they can blame Iran and Syria and have an

excuse to start the draft. DESPICABLE! They totally lack empathy. How would they feel if they were treated the same way? They could care less if our reputation is diminished around the world. :(

[Karla Marx]

134. I just took a dump on the Bible...

...somebody call the Jesus police!