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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 04:48 PM
Original message
Dixie Democrats Voice Frustration (MSNBC)
<snip>

WASHINGTON, Oct. 6 — Frustrated at being written off by their party’s presidential candidate in the 2000 election, Southern Democrats are demanding that the party leadership put more money and effort into winning at least a few Southern states in 2004.

“I’M NOT comfortable with our strategy as it relates to the South,” Georgia Democratic Party Chairman Calvin Smyre said at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee over the weekend in Washington.

At a presentation of 2004 strategy by DNC political director Traci Siegel to the DNC’s Southern Caucus, Smyre heatedly told Siegel, “We are not going to win the White House unless we win some Southern states.”

Smyre’s fellow Southerners applauded him as he complained, “The South was neglected” in the 2000 race. “We were just written off to a large degree.” He added, “You can’t talk about a national strategy until you talk about a Southern strategy.”

In 2000, Democratic candidate Al Gore carried no Southern or border states, not even West Virginia, which Democrat Mike Dukakis had carried in his 1988 loss.

<snip>

Link: http://www.msnbc.com/news/976026.asp?0cv=CB10

So..... What's our strategy???

:shrug:

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wesley Clark is very popular in the south...
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Actually so is Dean but not with the DLC or even DNC
I think it is going to be a very interesting campaign between Clark and Dean. Both are not the "normal" candidate. Dean has raised huge sums from southern folk.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Actually, I'm privy to polls showing Dean isn't popular in the south...
... and here is a quote from a recent article:

"Even the much ballyhooed Howard Dean doesn't poll well in the South or upper Midwest, critical regions for national Democratic success. And Clark appeals to NASCAR men, who have fled the Democratic Party in droves since the Reagan era."

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/6926945.htm

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Let me guess: Gay marriages scare away the Southern Baptists
:eyes:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh... I just LOVE THIS !!!
<snip>

Asked if Democratic presidential front-runner Howard Dean’s support for legal same-sex unions would be a liability in the South, Cole said, “I’ve seen elections and political debate over the last few years dominated by stuff like the Rebel flag or a marble slab with the Ten Commandments carved on it, and I think issues like that are part of an upper-middle class conceit that we actually have time to talk about stuff like that.”

“I live in the poorest state in the union,” Cole explained. “Every time the weather turns cold in Mississippi you will see the death of some children or elderly people because they had unsafe apparatus to provide heat in their homes. We have tens of thousands of Mississippians out of work and hundreds of thousands without health insurance. If we can deal with the bread and butter issues here at home, and the life and death issues abroad — instead of getting into some Starbucks coffeehouse debate about stuff that doesn’t matter to the average Americans — then we can win this election.”

<snip>

Same article...

Right friggin on!!!

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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Very, very true
What my neighbors here in SC talk about is whether they will still have a job next year, (hell next week), who in their family is still unemployed, which factory is closing down and going overseas next, and why are we spending so much f*ing much money on Iraq when we need the money here at home.

Right now the main thing on everyones mind down here is simple survival.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Heres a typical example of what southerners are really worried about
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. The South
It seems to me that the South cannot be written off if the Dems are to win. We actually have 3 Southern candidates in Graham, Clark and Edwards. Surely if they are not on the ticket they will help get rid of dufus. Kerry has also been to S Carolina, where there are numerous military bases. We have to hit the military everywhere; they are some unhappy folks. I am most frightened by the electronic, no paper trail voting machines. The cabal have no compunction about cheating, lying, stealing to win. They've done little else for 3 years.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The South
As much as I fina Dean/Clark appealing, I think we need a Southerner.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Clark IS from
the south, Arkansas.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gov. Dean's 'southern strategy'
Gov. Howard Dean
South Carolina Democratic Party
Columbia, SC
May 3, 2003
T R A N S C R I PT
Special Thanks to Vermont Public Radio for Audio Assistance

Thank you. You know as most of you know I did not support the war in Iraq {applause}, but let me also remind you that the military that kicked Saddam Hussein out of Iraq was Bill Clinton's and Democrats', built by Bill Clinton and the Democrats, and let's not forget that. {applause}. And if the president keeps talking about a strong military, which I certainly support, he had better stop talking about $670 billion worth of tax cuts paid for by cutting veteran's health care benefits. {applause}.

I'm in this race because I want jobs back in America. I'm in this race because like Fritz Hollings, I want a balanced budget and I'm not kidding. I'm in this race because I want, like we have in Vermont, health insurance not just for everybody under 18, which we have, but I want health insurance for every single American, and we need to do that now. {applause}.

But when we come to the South, Democrats have got to start talking about race, because the Republicans always talk about race. They talk about it and try to keep people from voting; they talk about it by using divisive words like quotas, which are race-based words and race baiting words. But what I want to say is in the South we have discovered that when white voters and black voters vote together, we all make progress not here but everywhere in the country. {applause}.

And the message I want to give today, before I get gonged {laughter}, the message I want to give today is two-fold. We have an obligation to the African-American base in this party to be sure that we do not ignore them {applause} and we have an obligation at the same time to talk to white people in the South that have been voting Republican for 30 years, and this is what we're going to say.

There are 103,000 kids with no health in this state--most of 'em are white, there are an awful lot of people whose jobs are going to China, a lot of people that haven't had a raise in five years, a lot of people who need schools better--they're not just African-Americans, they're whites as well. And so I want to say to white Southerners, let's put aside those divisive issues that the Republicans always bring up, and let's vote together for a better future for our children {applause} because you started out here in the South voting together for a better future for our children.

We're going to build this party back and we're going to start right here today because this is an extraordinary opportunity for the Democratic party nationally to show we are serious about competing in the South, we are going to win in the South, we are going to make sure that our base does not feel neglected. It's time to inject some backbone into our party, to stand up for the things that we need to stand up for. {applause}.

But it's also time to talk to folks who haven't voted for us for 30 years and say this. You've been voting for Republicans for 30 years; what do you have to show for it? {applause}. Because as long as the Republican party's in power, none of our kids are going to have health insurance; as long as the Republican party's in power, none of us are going to have raises; as long as the Republican party's in power, none of us are going to have health insurance for adults. We can do better. We want jobs. We want health insurance. We want better education. White people and black people are going to vote together in the South and they're going to vote Democratic just like they did when Franklin Roosevelt was president, when Harry Truman was president. {applause}. We're going to stand up again for what we believe in in this country. Thank you very, very much. {applause}.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/sc0503/dean050303spt.html


That said, it was interesting to watch Dean in South Carolina. One of the shorter candidates, Dean somehow managed to appear exactly the right height to look every person he met in the eye. He was willing to engage almost anyone in a real discussion about real issues. Over the weekend, he was spontaneous and garrulous and seemed to really love campaigning. When he crossed paths with fish-fry attendee Joan Trezevant during a walk-through with supporters, she was dancing and he was just some politician in her way. So she asked him to dance, and then and there they did the shag, the South Carolina state dance. Let me be the first to report that the former governor of Vermont dances beautifully. Said a clearly thrilled Trezevant afterward, "He has the moves."

Nor is Dean afraid to take his campaign to venues that wouldn't, at first blush, seem to be his natural base, such as the South Carolina Democratic Leadership Council's (DLC) Saturday lunch. "In the South, Republicans always make sure that race is an issue," Dean told the assembled. "We're going to talk about race. I'm going to talk to southern whites who've been voting Republican since 1968. The way we win the South is that . . . we talk to white southern voters about the issues we care about as Democrats, because they're their issues, too." In his Saturday afternoon speech at the convention, he extended those remarks: We have "to talk to folks who haven't voted for us in 30 years and ask them, 'You've been voting for Republicans for 30 years. What do you have to show for it?'" At the same time, "We have an obligation to the African American base not to ignore them. . . . We are going to make sure that our base does not feel neglected."

The message played surprisingly well with the DLC crowd. "I think that's a very brave statement he's making," said Ed Craig, a businessman who heard Dean at the lunch. "The issues in this state are graphically racial. This is a racially divided population. It's something we need to confess to and we need to stop." Mike Hawkins, an insurance agent from Prosperity, S.C., described himself as "surprised and pleased with what had to say." "He works for me," Hawkins said. "Is it going to work in the South? I hope so."

http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2003/05/franke-ruta-g-05-08.html
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Howard Dean needs to get his history straight
<<White people and black people are going to vote together in the South and they're going to vote Democratic just like they did when Franklin Roosevelt was president, when Harry Truman was president.>>

Very few blacks were allowed to vote in the South when Roosevelt and Truman were president. It wasn't until the abolition of the poll tax and passage of the Voting Rights Act in 1965 that you started to see large number of blacks voting in the South. And not surprisingly, it was around that time that whites in the South began voting Republican.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Fabulous post, w4rma
We can always count on you.

Eloriel
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Actually, That Transcript Betrays Some Shocking Ignorance
Edited on Mon Oct-06-03 09:06 PM by DoveTurnedHawk
See Dolstein's post #10. I like lots of Dean's stances on racial issues, but his rhetoric here is problematic.

DTH
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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Dean going nowhere in South Carolina, in South
He has been advertising on SC TV and radio and has something like 6% of the vote. His signing of the gay unions bill is not well-known in SC, so that does not explain it. According to SC paper: "But among the 10 candidates seeking the Democratic nomination, the 50-year-old North Carolina senator (Edwards) is the only one showing any forward movement. The others either have faded or remain stuck in neutral."

You have to be able to "hang" to win in the South. So we better get a candidate who can hang. South Carolinians, at least, don't think that is Dean.

We have to win in the South.

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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. The only problem with the South
Is all of the religious issues. They are the "bible belt" for a reason. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong but the poor who need the help are the least likely to vote (unless a dem can change that) so the religious issues will take a front seat. That is why they are all "red" states now. They like those religious right, confederate flag waving "patriots" They are pro-life and pro capital punishment and don't see why that doesn't make sense. Hopefully I am wrong but I think it would take alot for dems to do well in the South.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes but
You are correct, we have more than our share of bible thumpers, flag wavers, and gun nuts down here. But, realistically they are not all that large of a precentage of the population. The difference is that they all vote, I mean damn near 100 percent.

The Christian Coalition passes out the voter guides in church and the preacher tells them it is their moral obligation to vote. In off year elections they completely dominate. If 10 percent of the population are fundies and they all show up and vote in a virtual block, in a 25 percent turnout election all of their candidates win.

There is a much larger disempowered and very poorly served population here that rarely goes to the polls. If you can get them to turn out, things change.

In a near by county the fundies took over the school board by dominating off-year elections. They then started banning books and requiring teachers to teach some off-the-wall fundie stuff. When it finally hit the press, during the next election, they had an 80 percent turnout and sent every one of the fundies packing.

Turn out is the answer. Get the construction workers, restaurant workers, and service sector types to take the time and vote, and things will change in the south.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Religion is a wedge issue to get poor people to vote for the party
which will make the poorer (Republicans).

There comes a moment when the logic of allowing the wedge to work starts to crumble. I think if the Dems do run a populist who can connect with people on economic issues (as this article says) and not raise issues which are easy to use as a wedge (gay marriage, as this article suggests) then the Democrat does have a chance to win big in the south.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Class War!
That's what they're asking for...dontcha get it? the candidate that will take that message to the south will win...with new voters and disenfranchised ones. We can win if we strees economic inequalities - especially in the frame of the war on terra: Poor have made all the sacrifices, the rich have gained all the profits. bring it on!
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Exactly
To paraphrase the good Sen. Lieberman...

If the Dems don't bring this message, they don't deserve to win.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. how about "count the votes"?
Gore did win FL and possibly TN, but repub dirty tricks made it seem otherwise.

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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Go after the intermountain West
which is the one place the Democratic Party made substantial gains in 2002 -- picking up the governorships in NM, WY, and AZ along with legislative gains in those and other states.

I'm not saying we really should write off the South but it will drive me NUTS if they concentrate totally on the south and continue to ignore the plains & mountain states which really could be fruitful for them............
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TheReligiousLeft Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Wyoming is in 2 camps when it comes to Dems
2/3 is Lieberman 1/3 is Dean. They like Dean because he has mentioned Agriculture, and he's a Gov. As for Lieberman he liked the war, and Wyoming likes wars.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. If most Southern Democrats would stop acting/voting like Repugs...
...then we might start to have a discussion.

I've lived in Alabama since moving from Virginia in 1990. I can tell you for a fact that most Southern Democrats..."Blue Dog Democrats" is the proper term...are more rightwing than most Repugs. They have a very narrow view of life in general and have no idea what goes on outside their own geographic areas.

So, what exactly do Southern Democrats have to offer that makes it worthwhile to include them in any national political strategy? Let's ask them a few simple questions and see what happens:

1. Financially, are you better off now than you were before Bush took over the White House?

2. Do you feel good about your job security at your present place of work?

3. Do you think Bush has done a good, fair, or poor job overall?

4. Do you think we're doing the right thing in the Middle east?

5. Would you vote for a Democratic candidate for president if that candidate was not a pro-life supporter?

6. Which of the questions above is the most important issue for you personally?
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Liberator_Rev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. Democrats needs to claim Christ's mantle !!!!
We won't be able to win over many racist, sexist, male, warmonger, gun nuts in the South, but I think the addition of enough Christian white women to the minority mix could be a winning combination.

I think the Democratic Party would be wise to target this group with the messages of


http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Democrats
&
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Liberals
&
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Christlike



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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. Funny How This Thread Didn't Last Too Long...
Given the 'vital importance' of defeating Bush in 2004.

Sigh...

:shrug:



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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. jesus. dixie democrats? join the club.
you're hardly the only ones who are "disappointed" by democratic party leadership.
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imhotep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
29. The south isnt neglected
by the Democratic party. The entire working class is neglected.
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