Another Downing St Memo – Wrongfooting Saddam

[Barrett808]

Another Downing St Memo – Wrongfooting Saddam
Thursday, 9 June 2005, 4:37 pm
Article: The Scoop Editor

SCOOP EDITOR'S NOTE: The following is a transcript of another document leaked to the media concerning the build up to the Iraq war. It concerns a discussion in early 2002 between the UK Ambassador to the US and then Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.

Importantly the following document appears to confirm the thrust of the allegations made concerning the so-called "Downing Street Memo", namely that the Bush Administration had already made up its mind to go to war against Iraq before it began the diplomatic offensive in the second half of 2002.

The transcript that follows was transcribed by a member of the Democratic Underground forums from the PDF version posted online. Some of the typos are from the original. Emphasis has been added to key passages.

– Scoop Co-Editor Alastair Thompson

...

2 On Iraq I opened by sticking very closely to the script that you used with Condi Rice last week, We backed regime change, but the plan had to be clever and failure was not an option. It would be a tough sell for us domestically, and probably tougher elsewhere in Europe. The US could go it alone if it wanted to. But if it wanted to act with partners, there had to be a strategy for building support for military action against Saddam. I then went through the need to wrongfoot Saddam on the inspectors and the UN SCRs and the critical importance of the MEPP as an integral part of the anti-Saddam strategy. ...

(more)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0506/S00116.htm

[sniffa]

1. but, no one can argue

that the worLd isn't better off without saddam in power.

:mad:

what the fuck!!? how can this be ignored any Longer?

[progressiveBadger]

10. I hate that talking point...

I hear it all the time. I would like someone to say that "No one can argue that the US is a poorer place with 1700 of it's young men dead for no reason".

[shadowknows69]

18. I don't think much of the world would argue

that the world would be better without George Bush. I wish someone would have the balls to say it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. They are. We just don't get coverage of it in the U.S.

[havocmom]

24. Al Queda was not in Iraq when Saddam was in charge. They are now.

So, I am saying it: The world WAS better off back then.

[Straight Shooter]

26. The question is no Longer whether the worLd is better off without Saddam.

That's now a moot point. The question now is, would the worLd be better off without bush in power?

Capping those L's for sniffa :)

[Triana]

2. "I then went through the need to wrongfoot Saddam"

This is also in the video...which is also posted on DU. It's all corroborated.

[Barrett808]

3. Haven't seen the video -- can you post the link? n/t

[Spazito]

8. Here is the link to the video

It is titled: Iraq, Tony and the Truth by the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4332485.stm

This thread has the link plus links to other clips

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3813130

[Barrett808]

16. Great, thanks n/t

[sabra]

4. scoop got the scoop from DU!

DU rocks...

[seemslikeadream]

7. althecat

ROCKS

[Supersedeas]

5. sounds like they were wrongfooting Sadaam and the UN

[doodadem]

6. "Wrongfooting"

What exactly, does that mean?

[LynnTheDem]

9. Pushing Hussein to do something the bushCartel could then say AH HA

or lying and spinning to make it look like Hussein was the one in the wrong, like bush saying Hussein "kicked the UN weapons inspectors out" (no he did not) and by making demands that no government leader of any nation would ever agree to, and by setting demands so impossibly high there was no way Hussein could ever meet them.

[publius_jr]

15. definition

wrong-foot, v. trans.

1. In tennis, football, etc.: (by deceptive play) to cause (an opponent) to have his balance on the wrong foot.

2. fig. To disconcert by an unexpected move; to catch unprepared.

--OED

[InternalDialogue]

13. Wrongfooting -- Yes!

And the Downing Street Minutes refer to wrongfooting Saddam as a potential strategy (bold text mine):

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72-hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

How do you plan ahead for something that may not happen? Obviously, the intent was, one way or another, to provoke in Saddam something that would justify an invasion.

[Spazito]

11. Here is a guardian article that reference the leaks that included

this memo as well as others. The series of documents leaked were confirmed by the British Foreign Office as being genuine:

Leaks cast doubt on PM's motive

The Liberal Democrat leader, Charles Kennedy, led fresh demands yesterday for Tony Blair to apologise for his handling of the Iraq war and its aftermath or risk having his reputation permanently tarnished by "bad faith as well as bad judgment".
Mr Kennedy seized on weekend disclosures of Whitehall papers confirming pre-war doubts about the consequences of the March 2003 invasion which has resulted in at least 10,000 Iraqi deaths and more than 1,000 among coalition forces.

The documents from the Cabinet Office and Foreign Office suggest that in March 2002 Mr Blair was concerned primarily about regime change rather than, as he subsequently said, weapons of mass destruction. Invasion simply for regime change would have been contrary to international law.

The Foreign Office yesterday acknowledged the documents were genuine but stressed they were only a snapshot of thinking at a particular time. Nor did they reflect the changes that took place over the following 12 months, in particular referring the issue to the UN, which the White House did at Mr Blair's behest, though it failed to get a second security council resolution authorising war.

more

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1308368,00.html

[Supersedeas]

30. the WMD pretext the WMD pretext the WMD pretext

[LynnTheDem]

12. This was leaked last year.

Another document leaked last year records Sir Christopher Meyer, British ambassador to the US at the time, as telling Sir David on March 18 2003, the eve of the invasion, about a meeting with the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

He said: "I opened by sticking very closely to the script that you used with Condi Rice. We backed regime change, but the plan had to be clever and failure was not an option."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1474754,00.html


The need to wrongfoot Saddam

Richard Norton-Taylor
Tuesday September 21, 2004

http://www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,,1308977,00.html

[evermind]

14. The circularity of it all!

This scoop article and the transcript in it was taken from the thread I posted in GD at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3809302&mesg_id=3809302
!

In that thread, there's two full memo transcripts, info on where you can get the PDF file I transcribed, and links to old DU threads when the stories were first leaked.. Give it a read! :-)

[althecat]

17. Circular distribution channels... here are some referrer logs....

Yes Evermind.. tis your scoop.... I have just relayed the message.

And as you can see it is being read widely and discussed all over the place. So far today there's been 1600 views of this. In terms of circularity.. this thread has so far led to 95 readings of your original post on scoop... it meanwhile has probably directed a fair few people back to your post on DU :)

492: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
119: http://whatreallyhappened.com/
95: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1535356
49: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
30: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/index.html
18: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?13@@.596c4b89/2825
15: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=56683&forum=17
14: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=12421&hd=0&size=1&l=x
13: http://www.tvnewslies.org/news/
12: http://www.haloscan.com/comments.php?user=atrios&comment=111833442819825077
12: http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7082301&tid=hal&sid=7082301&mid=311065
10: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/52904
10: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/132446/4907
7: http://whatreallyhappened.com
7: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m12421
7: http://www.mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22399
6: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_coverupdeceptions.html
5: http://www.dailykos.com/section/Diary
5: http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/52904
4: http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37138459&tid=apiraq&sid=37138459&mid=378028
4: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3809302
4: http://whatreallyhappened.com/index.html
3: http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000502.html
2: http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=23904
2: http://dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/132446/4907
2: http://www.dailykos.com/section/Diary/3
2: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jacobandesau/message/55306
2: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/week_2005_06_05.html
2: http://mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22399
2: http://www.whistlestopper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31093
2: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.bush/messages/a7c209d959a7f87b?hl=en&thread_id=318d99fc4ddc27bf&view=thread&noheader=1&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.politics.bush%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F318d99fc4ddc27bf%2Fa7c209d959a7f87b%3Fhl%3Den%26
2: http://uruknet.info/?p=m12421
2: http://216.177.7.126/
2: http://online.startribune.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&&prevloaded=1&th=493&start=19920
1: http://www.haloscan.com/comments.php
1: http://www.tvnewslies.org/news/index.php
1: http://www.uruknet.net/?p=12421&hd=0&size=1&l=x
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail].3@.773a53f6
1: http://www.WhatReallyHappened.com/
1: http://www.tvnewslies.com/news/
1: http://69.9.161.200/story/2005/6/9/132446/4907
1: http://www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/52904
1: http://216.177.7.126/index.html
1: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.bush/messages/a7c209d959a7f87b,5fd371041019c98f,233c320bd2d228d6,e2fa67d055527aac,2f529994870aed21,53ce275a814c7aec,731aa218b5a49173,36f69b16d11bbcb1,da7317aca407c53c?hl=en&thread_id=318d99fc4ddc27bf&view=thread&noheader=1&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.politics.bush%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F318d99fc4ddc27bf%2Fa7c209d959a7f87b%3Fhl%3Den%26
1: http://www.leekillough.com/liberty.html
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]0b.0@.773a53f6
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?50@162.1nGWaC55xTV.7@.596c4b89
1: http://www.astroworld.us/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=502
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail].59988@.773a53f6/4075
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]4aasaxxbI.29@.773a53f6/4070
1: http://www.google.com
1: http://www.maghreb.nl/marokkaansforum/viewtopic.php?p=2061
1: http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=7082301&tid=hal&sid=7082301&mid=311065
1: http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/presidentbushssecondterm/index.html?offset=173325
1: http://online.startribune.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=499784&
1: http://www.e115.blogspot.com
1: http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/presidentbushssecondterm/index.html?offset=173332&page=previous
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]6eaEKGx4P.13@.596c4b89
1: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=downing+street+memo&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&start=40
1: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/64057/69535#34
1: http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4858&st=405&#entry77180
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]1da3YjxVM.5@.596c4b89
1: http://www.uruknet.info/?p=12421&hd=0&size=1&l=e
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?13@864.2oisadXixne.12@.773a53f6/4076
1: http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/show_thread.php?rootID=39775
1: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.impeach.bush/messages/a7c209d959a7f87b,5fd371041019c98f,233c320bd2d228d6,e2fa67d055527aac,2f529994870aed21,53ce275a814c7aec,731aa218b5a49173,36f69b16d11bbcb1,da7317aca407c53c?hl=en&thread_id=318d99fc4ddc27bf&mode=thread&noheader=1&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.impeach.bush%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F318d99fc4ddc27bf%2Fa7c209d959a7f87b%3F
1: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.bush/browse_thread/thread/318d99fc4ddc27bf/5fd371041019c98f?q=%22Downing+Street+Memo%22&rnum=3&hl=en
1: http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=410550647&tstart=0&mod=1118331867477
1: http://mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22399&highlight=
1: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/72229/40688
1: http://e115.blogspot.com/2005/06/another-downing-st-memo.html
1: http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/presidentbushssecondterm/index.html
1: http://www.astroworld.us/archives/000502.html#000502
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?13@768.0oMnapABxVZ.11@.596c4b89/2829
1: http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/presidentbushssecondterm/index.html?offset=173325&fid=.f74d861/173325
1: http://www.SmirkingChimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=56683&forum=17
1: http://online.startribune.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=499776&
1: http://forums.savannahnow.com/cgi-bin/bb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=reply;f=2;t=006069
1: http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/presidentbushssecondterm/index.html?offset=173324
1: http://smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=56683&forum=17
1: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/64057/69535
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]99aTPrxJ2.0@.596c4b89
1: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com./index.html
1: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]94Rx9d.57@.773a53f6/4075

[oxbow]

19. Is Conyers aware of this?

It might be helpful evidence in the Judiciary Investigation next week.

[annabanana]

23. I think he is NOW!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3824261

I'll bet that this memo is what this is about.

[LightningFlash]

20. Send to John Conyers.

[hector459]

21. Families of the soldiers killed in Iraq should unite for impeachment!

I just could not give up my child's life with these people getting away with what they gotten away with so far.

[LightningFlash]

22. Good idea.

[burrowowl]

25. Hoorah DU!

:toast:

[Alizaryn]

27. Does anyone have a link to the memo itself?

[Disturbed]

28. In a month or so there might..

be enough documentation to start Impeachment proceeding against Bush and Cheney.

[evermind]

29. The file leaks-brief.zip is available again at cryptome.org

http://cryptome.org/leaks-brief.htm

9 June 2005. This file and related Zipped file of documents republished in response to inquiries.

D. writes:

The New Zealand publication "Scoop" (http://www.scoop.co.nz) has published what purports to be a transcript of a memo concerning the runup to the Iraq invasion from the U.K. ambassador to the United States, Christopher Meyer, to David Manning. The source document for this memo is a pdf, "meyer020318.pdf", from a collection of several others. All of these pdfs no longer appear to be available on the network. In an analysis of these documents Michael Lewis of Christ's College, Cambridge referred readers to an archive of these supposedly to be found at Cryptome, "leaks-brief.zip". These no longer appear to be on the Cryptome site. Have they by any chance been removed?

I ask because the authenticity of the documents is now being called into question.

Click on "leaks-brief.zip" at that article on cryptome.

The authenticity is being discussed at smirking chimp:

http://smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=56683&forum=17

And in the original thread in General Discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3809302

Possibly the best places to contact for would-be authenticators are:

1) the Daily Telegraph (UK) who first broke the story back in Sept 2004 (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/18/nwar118.xml )

2) The BBC, who used the documents in their Panorama program, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

(Edit: add hints on authentication)

[Alizaryn]

31. Got it, thank you!